jonnydrive
100 W
With some precautions it is possible bring cyclone 1680w@48V motor successfully up to 2100w@60v nominal without engine modification (aka air forced cooling system).
After about 2500km of riding, I have decided to post my experience for anyone is interested to put more juice from this engine.
Before all this is my final build:
I haven’t used professional tools (milling machine, router cnc, custom build, etc) and no advanced skills were requested to build this bike.
Thanks to my improvement to engine and to the transmission, I am able to ride my e-fatbike to work every day (25 km flat @50km/h) and, during the weekends, ride on mountain trails or off-road basically without slope limits.
When you put more voltage on this engine you need to consider:
- The weakness that came from a cheap motor kit
- The problem that came when you put a lot of power on a bike not build for that (overheating and transmission problems)
Weakness came from cheap motor kit
Cyclone 1680w engine came with mounting brackets in ergal, very light but not strong enough!
If you put enough power on the engine, the brackets flex under the engine torque causing the engine chain spill out from the cog on crankset (terrible situation).
To make things worse, the only way to fix engine at the opposite side of the cog (see the picture below) is with steel clamp holding the left bracket …..no way that it works with the desired power!
So, how can I solve this problem without replacing brackets?
By fixing directly the left bracket on the bike frame with stainless steal collar (sorry my English sucks! but a picture is worth a 1000 words! see the picture below)
By fixing bracket on the frame (asymmetrical installation) you can compensate torque force enough to keep the engine chain in the correct position during full throttle acceleration.
To do that you can simply drill two holes in the left bracket. I suggest you to assembly the engine on the bike frame using the right bracket, once engine is in position you can take precise measurements for the holes.
Suggestion: use nuts for adjust left bracket parallel to the frame
Mount left bracket after made holes (try to keep holes soon as possible to the engine
You can Bend the holed part of the bracket, nomore used, around the frame or simply cut it off.
In the other side (right bracket) the engine is mounted as Cyclone suggested, the braket is fixed on bottom brackets
After have applied this fix no anymore chain slip (even when the slope gets slip rubber on the stone.
Beneficts by putting the engine in the triangle
- Engine is more protected from any kind of fall (I do a lot of them)
- The bike is able to face obstacles as rocks or tree trunks without the risk to hit the engine (44t cog is the lowest component of the bike (it is quite strong and you can fix it with some hammer blow)
- Bike frame prevent to hit the engine from rocks coming from the front wheel
- Better locking with the frame
- It looks better
- It is cool, I never see kit with engine in the bike frame
Cons: forget if you have rear suspension or small form triangle because you are unable to locate engine close enough to the bottom bracket, remember I still using the right bracket of the engine kit to fix the engine to the frame using the bottom bracket.
Keeping front derailleurs with engine in the triangle frame
When you put the engine in the frame, the engine chain obstacles front derailleurs. The only way I found is to move front derailleur outside the chain area.
I do it quite simply using alloy stick
Overheating problem
After many tries, I figured that you have overheating problem if you run the engine using the incorrect gear (maybe you haven’t the correct one!).
The only way to avoid overheating, that is a very common problem for this engine (even without power upgrade), is to use the engine at elevated speeds. Thanks to Endless Sphere I learned that more fast engine spin less heat is made (it something related to the current impulse), it works!
Make some calculation:
Engine specification from Cyclone website are “Electric Motor kit 1680 Watt 48Vup to 60Nm, speed 4500rpm” and they realized this graph (handworking?)
If my readings are correct, to have maximum torque the engine must run at 1000 rpm and to have the maximum efficiency (EFF) is @ 3000 rpm.
The gear reduction is about 1:30. Then, if the engine spin at 3000rpm, the pedaling cadence is about 100rpm (3000rpm /9.33 primary gear reduction/3.15 secondary reduction). For humans is quite hard keep 100 pedaling rate per minute. At upper speed it became
Bottom Line: if you want to run your engine at the optimal speed forget to follow the engine by pedaling!
How I can manage that?
It is quite simple, going on flat I love pedaling. I use engine at not-best performance (cadence at the crank set about 60 rpm)
On mountain, I would like to use it near to maximum speed 4500+ rpm (good torque and good EFF), simply pedaling is impossible.
Configure the correct gear to avoid overheating
The easy way: put throttle to the maximum, if the engine speed increase slowly you must change gear to the light one.
To avoid overheating you need to change your riding stile, the throttle must be always near to the maximum (full gas) and you can regulate the bike speed you want by using the bike gears.
Cyclone kit with 3ps chainwhell came with 444432 3pcs chainwheel crank set
The overheating problem came on long slopes, after a while engine stop spinning and became very hot.
It is because engine strive al low rpm unable to reach optimum speed. The only way to avoid overheating is to reduce gear to reduce engine strive and reach the correct engine spin.
Unfortunately neither with 32t front and 36t rear gear I can reach optimum engine spin, so can we do?
Option 1:
Put 22t cog on crankset in place of 32t. It is not easy, bolts for 32t cog are 104mm, you can not use them to fix 22t on crankest. The only way is to use the freewheel bolts and by cyclone 22t cog as in the picture below.
Simply Replacing the original bolts with the longest one you can fix 22t cog on crankset.
I have tried this way unsuccessfully because the torque applied on the cogs yield the bolts
Option 2:
Increase sprockets cassette with mega range @ > 40t
I have tried this piece of crap:
The engine torque caused the slip of the cog (made in shitty alloy) over freewheel hub of my rear wheel.
I am putting to much torque on small part of the all hub freewheel
The final solution came with this nice of handworking stainless steel adaptor by from eBay
40t 42t sprocket/cassette/chainring adaptor/expander MTB 7/8/9 speed. I put on the adaptor the 44t 104mm cog (my deore long cage derailleur liked it)
To avoid cog slip I also fixed my sprocket cassette with the sprocket adaptor with two bolts to distribute torque generated by the engine on the entire hub freewheel.
The result is: no more overheating and incredible climbing hill ability. My fatbike wheel loose traction on rocks before enging stop spinning.
I hope that this post can help someone resolving problem that cause me some brain frocking storming.
I believe that cyclone kit have an incredible powerful engine, maybe rude (AFT, Big Block, Astro building is upper level) maybe noisy, but when you ride your fatbike build with less than 1500 euros up hill overtaking commercial expensive ebike with expensive engine in expensive suite…any trouble is worth!
After about 2500km of riding, I have decided to post my experience for anyone is interested to put more juice from this engine.
Before all this is my final build:
I haven’t used professional tools (milling machine, router cnc, custom build, etc) and no advanced skills were requested to build this bike.
Thanks to my improvement to engine and to the transmission, I am able to ride my e-fatbike to work every day (25 km flat @50km/h) and, during the weekends, ride on mountain trails or off-road basically without slope limits.
When you put more voltage on this engine you need to consider:
- The weakness that came from a cheap motor kit
- The problem that came when you put a lot of power on a bike not build for that (overheating and transmission problems)
Weakness came from cheap motor kit
Cyclone 1680w engine came with mounting brackets in ergal, very light but not strong enough!
If you put enough power on the engine, the brackets flex under the engine torque causing the engine chain spill out from the cog on crankset (terrible situation).
To make things worse, the only way to fix engine at the opposite side of the cog (see the picture below) is with steel clamp holding the left bracket …..no way that it works with the desired power!
So, how can I solve this problem without replacing brackets?
By fixing directly the left bracket on the bike frame with stainless steal collar (sorry my English sucks! but a picture is worth a 1000 words! see the picture below)
By fixing bracket on the frame (asymmetrical installation) you can compensate torque force enough to keep the engine chain in the correct position during full throttle acceleration.
To do that you can simply drill two holes in the left bracket. I suggest you to assembly the engine on the bike frame using the right bracket, once engine is in position you can take precise measurements for the holes.
Suggestion: use nuts for adjust left bracket parallel to the frame
Mount left bracket after made holes (try to keep holes soon as possible to the engine
You can Bend the holed part of the bracket, nomore used, around the frame or simply cut it off.
In the other side (right bracket) the engine is mounted as Cyclone suggested, the braket is fixed on bottom brackets
After have applied this fix no anymore chain slip (even when the slope gets slip rubber on the stone.
Beneficts by putting the engine in the triangle
- Engine is more protected from any kind of fall (I do a lot of them)
- The bike is able to face obstacles as rocks or tree trunks without the risk to hit the engine (44t cog is the lowest component of the bike (it is quite strong and you can fix it with some hammer blow)
- Bike frame prevent to hit the engine from rocks coming from the front wheel
- Better locking with the frame
- It looks better
- It is cool, I never see kit with engine in the bike frame
Cons: forget if you have rear suspension or small form triangle because you are unable to locate engine close enough to the bottom bracket, remember I still using the right bracket of the engine kit to fix the engine to the frame using the bottom bracket.
Keeping front derailleurs with engine in the triangle frame
When you put the engine in the frame, the engine chain obstacles front derailleurs. The only way I found is to move front derailleur outside the chain area.
I do it quite simply using alloy stick
Overheating problem
After many tries, I figured that you have overheating problem if you run the engine using the incorrect gear (maybe you haven’t the correct one!).
The only way to avoid overheating, that is a very common problem for this engine (even without power upgrade), is to use the engine at elevated speeds. Thanks to Endless Sphere I learned that more fast engine spin less heat is made (it something related to the current impulse), it works!
Make some calculation:
Engine specification from Cyclone website are “Electric Motor kit 1680 Watt 48Vup to 60Nm, speed 4500rpm” and they realized this graph (handworking?)
If my readings are correct, to have maximum torque the engine must run at 1000 rpm and to have the maximum efficiency (EFF) is @ 3000 rpm.
The gear reduction is about 1:30. Then, if the engine spin at 3000rpm, the pedaling cadence is about 100rpm (3000rpm /9.33 primary gear reduction/3.15 secondary reduction). For humans is quite hard keep 100 pedaling rate per minute. At upper speed it became
Bottom Line: if you want to run your engine at the optimal speed forget to follow the engine by pedaling!
How I can manage that?
It is quite simple, going on flat I love pedaling. I use engine at not-best performance (cadence at the crank set about 60 rpm)
On mountain, I would like to use it near to maximum speed 4500+ rpm (good torque and good EFF), simply pedaling is impossible.
Configure the correct gear to avoid overheating
The easy way: put throttle to the maximum, if the engine speed increase slowly you must change gear to the light one.
To avoid overheating you need to change your riding stile, the throttle must be always near to the maximum (full gas) and you can regulate the bike speed you want by using the bike gears.
Cyclone kit with 3ps chainwhell came with 444432 3pcs chainwheel crank set
The overheating problem came on long slopes, after a while engine stop spinning and became very hot.
It is because engine strive al low rpm unable to reach optimum speed. The only way to avoid overheating is to reduce gear to reduce engine strive and reach the correct engine spin.
Unfortunately neither with 32t front and 36t rear gear I can reach optimum engine spin, so can we do?
Option 1:
Put 22t cog on crankset in place of 32t. It is not easy, bolts for 32t cog are 104mm, you can not use them to fix 22t on crankest. The only way is to use the freewheel bolts and by cyclone 22t cog as in the picture below.
Simply Replacing the original bolts with the longest one you can fix 22t cog on crankset.
I have tried this way unsuccessfully because the torque applied on the cogs yield the bolts
Option 2:
Increase sprockets cassette with mega range @ > 40t
I have tried this piece of crap:
The engine torque caused the slip of the cog (made in shitty alloy) over freewheel hub of my rear wheel.
I am putting to much torque on small part of the all hub freewheel
The final solution came with this nice of handworking stainless steel adaptor by from eBay
40t 42t sprocket/cassette/chainring adaptor/expander MTB 7/8/9 speed. I put on the adaptor the 44t 104mm cog (my deore long cage derailleur liked it)
To avoid cog slip I also fixed my sprocket cassette with the sprocket adaptor with two bolts to distribute torque generated by the engine on the entire hub freewheel.
The result is: no more overheating and incredible climbing hill ability. My fatbike wheel loose traction on rocks before enging stop spinning.
I hope that this post can help someone resolving problem that cause me some brain frocking storming.
I believe that cyclone kit have an incredible powerful engine, maybe rude (AFT, Big Block, Astro building is upper level) maybe noisy, but when you ride your fatbike build with less than 1500 euros up hill overtaking commercial expensive ebike with expensive engine in expensive suite…any trouble is worth!
