My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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waynebergman   10 kW

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by waynebergman » Dec 12 2016 8:02pm

Great project Tor, looking forward to seeing how this one turns out. I love the IGH with the removable shell. Never knew about this hub, it looks like a clever idea. I hope the IGH turns out to be a good one. Good luck on the journey I am sure your bike will be awesome!..........wayne

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by TorEddy » Dec 14 2016 2:27pm

Thanx wayne.. I love the build process almost as much as the riding:-)
The IGH is a prototype, so its expected to have some minor issues, but I hope the production model that comes out in 2017 will be flawless and withstand the BBSHD torque.
Just installed a new set of Shimano Saint disk brakes that should provide plenty of stopping power..
Cut and soldered the display wire harness and the speed sensor for internal cable routing.. looks nice.
Also ordered the LMX type thumb throttle.. seems to be the best one as far as I can find.

Tried to order the Maxxis Minion DHR PLUS size tyre (2,8) but it's not released until March:-(
Things are coming together slowly..

Mündawg said that a 14s4p pack will limit the BBSHD power due to voltage sag when drained with 7.5A pr cell.
Maybe squeezing 14s5p (70 cells) into the new Hailong Jumbo pack (65 cells) would be a great idea? Wouldn't want anything to limit my power!!!
Image
http://luna-mate.com/52v-panasonic-ga-1 ... rrencyId=1
I think that pack should fit my frame just fine..
Or is it asking for trouble hanging 70 cells under my downtube in a Chinese plastic pack in very rough terrain? 56 cells in a modified battery case works great..!

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by WebEsquire » Feb 19 2017 8:41pm

Where'd you get that sweet carbon fiber battery mount? Is that custom? Very nice and looks very secure.

Although yeah that placement is still a bit precarious because if you hit a log or anything, that thin plastic won't actually protect your precious battery. The bigger concern I would have is just with gravity - one good slam and that thing might come loose.

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by TorEddy » Feb 20 2017 3:14am

WebEsquire wrote:Where'd you get that sweet carbon fiber battery mount? Is that custom? Very nice and looks very secure.

Although yeah that placement is still a bit precarious because if you hit a log or anything, that thin plastic won't actually protect your precious battery. The bigger concern I would have is just with gravity - one good slam and that thing might come loose.
That carbon fiber is just a thin sheet from a auto shop, glued on there, to hide the ugly cast ribbon underside.

The battery placement is prone to water and rocks, but in my experience it's only small rocks from the tire, not big enough to hurt the battery casing. If this was a problem, I would glue a thin sheet of carbon fiber on the casing for protection.
Regarding gravity forces when riding offroad, I secure the battery with a tight Velcro strap around the battery and downtube. You don't want that battery to come off.

This mount has worked fine so far, but soon i'm receiving the luna jumbo pack with 14 more cells. I think I will do this mod again, and with the Velcro strap, I feel it's a secure solution.

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by TorEddy » Feb 20 2017 3:16am

Wohooo.. Not every day I'm mentioned in Electricbike.com

https://www.electricbike.com/unusual-eb ... locations/

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broke   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by broke » Mar 01 2017 2:23pm

I mounted my shark pack on the bottom great but when I bought jumbo shark and mounted same place my front wheel hit the shark pack. I have a v10 with a fox 40. I have to go back to slim shark. Good luck to you.
kona stinky - adaptto - HT3525 - https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1005754
bikes owned:
new build LR kit dirt bag frame adaptto - rohloff
kona stinky adaptto ht3525
optibike
gaint ac1 bmc motor
prodeco ex 2014 48v
prodeco pooper 24v
hill toper kit (first kit)
2 Sanyo ebikes from japan
2 cheap folding bikes with 36v settups

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broke   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by broke » Jun 02 2017 2:21am

Any news on the shark pack? I'm thinking of rebuilding my jumbo so I can use it.
kona stinky - adaptto - HT3525 - https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1005754
bikes owned:
new build LR kit dirt bag frame adaptto - rohloff
kona stinky adaptto ht3525
optibike
gaint ac1 bmc motor
prodeco ex 2014 48v
prodeco pooper 24v
hill toper kit (first kit)
2 Sanyo ebikes from japan
2 cheap folding bikes with 36v settups

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by TorEddy » Jun 02 2017 3:41am

Things are progressing slowly as I'm actually happy with the range/weight of my current standard shark pack.

I have 3d printed a rubberish adapter plate between the jumbo shark pack and the 50 mm frame tube.
Just need to make holes in the cradle and adapter plate for the hose clamps now..


Image
Image
Image
https://goo.gl/photos/8fVTaQWR6DyBXPKq6

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broke   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by broke » Jun 02 2017 3:46am

Did you test fit? Does your front tire hit? Nice work...
kona stinky - adaptto - HT3525 - https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1005754
bikes owned:
new build LR kit dirt bag frame adaptto - rohloff
kona stinky adaptto ht3525
optibike
gaint ac1 bmc motor
prodeco ex 2014 48v
prodeco pooper 24v
hill toper kit (first kit)
2 Sanyo ebikes from japan
2 cheap folding bikes with 36v settups

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by TorEddy » Jun 02 2017 4:14am

Thanks.
I test fitted, but wasn't able to compress the fork enough to see if it would rub.
Just installed plus size (2.8") tires as well.. guess that doesn't help either..

Image

I have a good feeling that it will fit just fine.. the frame geometry is forgiving in that way, and the jumbo pack isn't that much thicker.

My main reason now for switching to the jumbo pack, is the built-in power switch, less voltage sag while WOT, and what seems like a more sturdier case.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by fechter » Jun 02 2017 9:43am

What is the material you 3D printed with? I haven't seen "rubbery" stuff before.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by TorEddy » Jun 02 2017 12:34pm

The PLA is called Cheetah and is really flexible and rubberish.. Grips the frame well, and maybe absorbs some vibration/shocks..
25% infill, as you can see in the video below the pictures.

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by TorEddy » Feb 26 2018 4:39pm

Image

Mad Matt   100 mW

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by Mad Matt » Feb 26 2018 5:01pm

How are you finding that igh. Is it any good? Clean looking build by the way.

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by TorEddy » Feb 27 2018 7:26am

Thanks.. I put much effort in it to make it as clean as possible!
Regarding the igh.. I ride the last prototype of the igh and have not yet upgraded to the final production version.
Still this version works like a dream, and being able to shift while standstill and under power is great!
No more slapping chain:-)

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by Chalo » Feb 28 2018 12:59am

TorEddy wrote:
Dec 04 2016 8:06am
Just received the bike from it's hydraulic internal geared hub installation.
14 gears with full 30 gear mtb range, from http://www.kindernay.com
Far out. That seems like a great way to make a NuVinci roller CVT seem super efficient by comparison.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

Mad Matt   100 mW

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by Mad Matt » Feb 28 2018 2:34am

Chalo, have you ridden with one?
Do you think a Nu vinci would do a better job for this application? What are the differences in efficiency between this and a comparable nu vinci model? This seems to weigh 1.4 kg and includes (I think) hub and axle.

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by TorEddy » Feb 28 2018 5:06am

Chalo wrote:
Feb 28 2018 12:59am
TorEddy wrote:
Dec 04 2016 8:06am
Just received the bike from it's hydraulic internal geared hub installation.
14 gears with full 30 gear mtb range, from http://www.kindernay.com
Far out. That seems like a great way to make a NuVinci roller CVT seem super efficient by comparison.
Sorry, but how do you feel the Nu Vinci is more efficient? Input power compared to output power?? Automatic gearing ?
To me the Nu Vinci feels like and oldscool heavy igh with threaded steel axle for commuter bikes.
I wanted an igh as light as possible with 12mm axle to fit my enduro bike, and the Kindernay fits the bill perfectly.

What Nu Vinci igh would you recommend for this setup Chalo?

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by Chalo » Feb 28 2018 11:40am

My point was that the NuVinci up until now was the clear loser among gearhubs from an efficiency standpoint. But then a hydraulic one comes along!

Hydraulic drive works for forklifts and skip loaders because they're not expected to go far or fast. It doesn't get used for road vehicles because it's lossy.

Don't get me wrong; I have a NuVinci hub (super heavy N171) on one of my bikes, and I really enjoy it. But when I ride it, I'm resigned to losing 10% of my effort versus any other transmission in my bikes. I doubt any kind of hydraulic transmission can be made even that efficient, even in a laboratory setting.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by TorEddy » Feb 28 2018 12:29pm

Chalo wrote:
Feb 28 2018 11:40am
My point was that the NuVinci up until now was the clear loser among gearhubs from an efficiency standpoint. But then a hydraulic one comes along!

Hydraulic drive works for forklifts and skip loaders because they're not expected to go far or fast. It doesn't get used for road vehicles because it's lossy.

Don't get me wrong; I have a NuVinci hub (super heavy N171) on one of my bikes, and I really enjoy it. But when I ride it, I'm resigned to losing 10% of my effort versus any other transmission in my bikes. I doubt any kind of hydraulic transmission can be made even that efficient, even in a laboratory setting.
Ok Chalo, now I see what you mean :shock:
You should take 2 minutes to read the link you are quoting before shooting it down!
It's not the gear reduction that is hydraulic, it's the shifting. Instead of wire, they use hydraulics.
I see the topic could be misleading :D
Rock on :lol:

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by Mad Matt » Feb 28 2018 1:04pm

TorEddy, how do you find the gaps between gears. Do you find it shifts fast. What type of riding do you mainly do. I use 4 gears with a bbshd with a top speed of 50kms. Have liked the look of this Igh since you mentioned it over a year ago. Its a shame Chalo didn't take the time to research it and add some usefull observations.

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by TorEddy » Feb 28 2018 1:31pm

Mad Matt wrote:
Feb 28 2018 1:04pm
TorEddy, how do you find the gaps between gears. Do you find it shifts fast. What type of riding do you mainly do. I use 4 gears with a bbshd with a top speed of 50kms. Have liked the look of this Igh since you mentioned it over a year ago. Its a shame Chalo didn't take the time to research it and add some usefull observations.
The spacing between gears is approx twice of a normal 11-32 cassette. I agree you could manage with 4 gears, and since you mention it, I have been in contact with Kindernay (in my neighborhood) about making a 7 gear electric/cargo heavy duty version of the igh, with half the total gear ratio. I think that would be perfect for electric bikes.
The shifting happens instantly, and you get a fine feedback from the gear lever which by the way changes 3 or 4 gears in one push.
I mainly ride off-road on singletracks etc. and hardly ever uses the lower 4 gears. But once on pavement and in maximum attack mode, I use the all the high gears. I just reached 50km/h on hard snow with 'low' pressure 2.8" tires.

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by Mad Matt » Feb 28 2018 2:22pm

Battery box below frame makes sense on certain bikes. Have fitted x70 cells below downtube on this bike with a carbon/kevlar bash cover.

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TorEddy   100 W

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by TorEddy » Feb 28 2018 2:31pm

Mad Matt wrote:
Feb 28 2018 2:22pm
Battery box below frame makes sense on certain bikes. Have fitted x70 cells below downtube on this bike with a carbon/kevlar bash cover.
Agree.. On what bike?

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Re: My next e-bike build - BBSHD with hydraulic IGH

Post by Mad Matt » Feb 28 2018 2:39pm

Specialized sx supercross and also a custom build with removable carbon fiber housed battery. Having trouble uploading images from my ph.

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