New BBS02 build

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runnermj   100 µW

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New BBS02 build

Post by runnermj » Dec 24 2015 3:32pm

Newbie here, have been comtimplating a build for a year now, help me pull the trigger. Current bike; Surly LHT, Shimano 105 10 speed cassette 11-28, ST 5703 shifters, 26 inch wheels, etc. Bike will be used for a 15 mile road commute, 4 hills, longest being 1.5 miles. I'm 160 lbs, a biker, so will be using PAS. Thinking of the BBS02 750 watt mid drive with the 52v, 13.5ah shark pack from Luna. Questions:
Will this setup just chew up the Shimano 105 cassette and chain? If so, what should I replace it with? Will a 8 or 9 speed work with the current shifter and deraileur (Ultegra RD-6700)?
Is this the right motor and battery for the job? Should I go with a smaller motor/battery?
All recomendations greatly appreciated, thanks.

2old   100 kW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by 2old » Dec 24 2015 4:19pm

Eric's 52V battery mates very well with the BBS02. I recommend that you use your current drivetrain, then make a decision on a replacement based on how well it wears. See my newbie comments about 20 threads below. If you're considering a BBS01 look for reviews tats and byebyepetrol, AIR, in the review section. Good luck.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tomjasz » Dec 24 2015 4:28pm

Nix the BBS01. I have two. Love them but for extra power especially on hills stay with AT LEAST the BBS02 750W. After lot's of miles on the BBS01's and quite a few on a 750W clone, I'm all about the BBSHD. More power, more torque and some nice improvements.

PM sent.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

Lurkin   100 kW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by Lurkin » Dec 24 2015 4:33pm

Read the BBS section of the wiki before you buy anything. I have summarised most of the main threads except programming:

https://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/ ... s_Middrive

This will help you with installation, tools, general knowledge.

Questions:
Will this setup just chew up the Shimano 105 cassette and chain? If so, what should I replace it with? Will a 8 or 9 speed work with the current shifter and deraileur (Ultegra RD-6700)?

Wouldn't bother buying anything new until you've had a go with your existing set up. My Shimano 105 chains do wear pretty quick but they are also pretty cheap to replace.

Is this the right motor and battery for the job? Should I go with a smaller motor/battery?

That depends what the use is. Commuting? zipping round on the weekend? More information is required before a recommendation can be given.

WoodlandHills   10 kW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by WoodlandHills » Dec 24 2015 5:38pm

It is my understanding that the 13.5ah Shark pack is not really suited for a BBSHD unless it is turned down below 30amps, can anyone confirm this? I have a 30a BBSHD and Luna advised me to exchange my 13.5 pack for the 11.6 for that very reason. If you stick with a 25a BBS01 you can use either pack AFAIK.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tomjasz » Dec 24 2015 6:35pm

2old wrote:Eric's 52V battery mates very well with the BBS02. I recommend that you use your current drivetrain, then make a decision on a replacement based on how well it wears. See my newbie comments about 20 threads below. If you're considering a BBS01 look for reviews tats and byebyepetrol, AIR, in the review section. Good luck.
Look at the batteries listed on Lunacycle listed with each motor choice. They are compatible.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

WoodlandHills   10 kW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by WoodlandHills » Dec 24 2015 7:28pm

Interesting, although they also mention under the cell choice section that the NCR B cells will overheat and shut down if used hard while the PF cells will not. It is a moot point if the OP has decided upon a BBS02 since it will only draw 25a continuous, not enough to trigger an overtemp shutdown by the BMS of either pack. If he chooses a BBSHD he will have to decide how hard he will use his drive, in my case I ride off-road and decided to go with a cell rated for a higher rate of discharge after advice from Luna.

runnermj   100 µW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by runnermj » Dec 24 2015 8:09pm

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback. Just to clarify a few points, the commute is 15 miles each way, 4 hills involved, all road. Currently, the longest hill (1.5 miles) is done in a 39 front and 24 back, no assist. What's the best set up? Didn't consider the HD, should I?

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by WoodlandHills » Dec 24 2015 8:40pm

If you have a 68/73 mm bottom bracket, then save some money and get a BBS02, if you have a 100mm BB or want to haul ass, get a BBSHD. Honestly, for 85% of my riding, I would be happy with a BBS02, if it was made in 100mm, but since I have a fat bike, the HD was the only choice. For commuting, the 02 is plenty, but I am sure you know about The Need For Speed.....

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tomjasz » Dec 24 2015 10:36pm

WoodlandHills wrote:It is my understanding that the 13.5ah Shark pack is not really suited for a BBSHD unless it is turned down below 30amps, can anyone confirm this? I have a 30a BBSHD and Luna advised me to exchange my 13.5 pack for the 11.6 for that very reason. If you stick with a 25a BBS01 you can use either pack AFAIK.
BBS01 500W is 25A. The 350W is 18A, 15A for the 250W. 18A 350W can push a loaded crank forward (Townie, Pure, Smoothie) frame at 22MPH. Some claim a few more MPH with the 25W controller, but It definitely runs hotter and I think at the upper limits of the motor. For a townie city cruiser, an honest20MPH, I think 18A is the motors sweet spot. Any off road use ought to bring the 750W into view. As would any consistent speeds over 25MPH. I don't need 750W for a grocery, bike path ride. Karl, electric fat bike,does the best job laying out what a 750 is capable of. For range and higher speeds I hope to have one bike with the BBSHD. Luna has at least 6 11.5/13.8 AH choices for the BBSHD. If you pound on that throttle and ride WOT and have the need for speed, in a frame pack, the 11.5A PF. Need more mileage, use it as a bicycle with more input, not constantly squeaking every bit of power out, NCRB. But for the best of both worlds a 26f triangle pack rated 20Ah is a winner. I like frame packs best and the minimum 15-18 miles per charge minimum works for me. Pedaling, remember, adds mileage by your labor. That can easily double mileage by a mildly athletic rider. I always use pas and even have a fair gain there.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tomjasz » Dec 24 2015 10:46pm

runnermj wrote:Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback. Just to clarify a few points, the commute is 15 miles each way, 4 hills involved, all road. Currently, the longest hill (1.5 miles) is done in a 39 front and 24 back, no assist. What's the best set up? Didn't consider the HD, should I?
Have fun, avoid buyers remorse. Your car may be capable of 120mph, but you won't use the power. It sure is nice on a long lonely run of road, or a quick takeoff in traffic, to have some power. Buy a BBSHD. Several good vendors. Lowest price, do your homework and own install, buy some tools, learn here, go Lunacycles. For full service, unsure of your tools and skills, need phone calls and direct support, California eBikes.

Go with what excites you. The happiest out here did.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tomjasz » Dec 24 2015 10:47pm

WoodlandHills wrote:If you have a 68/73 mm bottom bracket, then save some money and get a BBS02, if you have a 100mm BB or want to haul ass, get a BBSHD. Honestly, for 85% of my riding, I would be happy with a BBS02, if it was made in 100mm, but since I have a fat bike, the HD was the only choice. For commuting, the 02 is plenty, but I am sure you know about The Need For Speed.....
Um,100MM BBS02 are still available...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

WoodlandHills   10 kW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by WoodlandHills » Dec 25 2015 2:26am

I thought there was quite the premium for the 100mm BBS02 conversion kits compared to the 100mm BBSHD? Doesn't it double the price of an 02? I don't consider China direct as I have been burned before......

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tommie » Dec 25 2015 8:27am

I done a 750w bbs02 conversion on a mtb frame a couple of months ago, have to say it does the job a lot better than my other rear hub bike. When you mention hills definitely go for the 750 version, in fact if i was to do this again today i`d go for the HD item. Better too much than too little!

craneplaneguy   10 kW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by craneplaneguy » Dec 25 2015 11:48am

The only reason I went with the 750 for my folder Montague conversion instead of the HD , saving 3 lbs or so, as it was going in a small airplane, and so far I'm happy with the trade off. If anything I'm surprised by how gutty it is, which of course makes me drool over getting a HD, but I'll wait until I build a strictly ground bound bike, saving 3 pounds and the few hundred bucks less I paid works for me. So far, 100% of my riding has been on snow covered hilly gravel roads and I can only imagine it'll do even better on pavement. And yes, I've had a few spills, OK more then a few, but I am getting the hang of the thumb throttle while on ice :shock:

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tomjasz » Dec 25 2015 7:06pm

craneplaneguy wrote:The only reason I went with the 750 for my folder Montague conversion instead of the HD , saving 3 lbs or so, as it was going in a small airplane, and so far I'm happy with the trade off. If anything I'm surprised by how gutty it is, which of course makes me drool over getting a HD, but I'll wait until I build a strictly ground bound bike, saving 3 pounds and the few hundred bucks less I paid works for me. So far, 100% of my riding has been on snow covered hilly gravel roads and I can only imagine it'll do even better on pavement. And yes, I've had a few spills, OK more then a few, but I am getting the hang of the thumb throttle while on ice :shock:
Perfect choice given you situation. The 750 is still a great choice. But being on the bleeding edge is goo too!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

fredfire   100 mW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by fredfire » Dec 25 2015 10:20pm

Surly LHT is so light a bbs02 will be enough. Get better tires as you will go much faster you will get more flats. http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/943

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tomjasz » Dec 26 2015 2:59pm

WoodlandHills wrote:I thought there was quite the premium for the 100mm BBS02 conversion kits compared to the 100mm BBSHD? Doesn't it double the price of an 02? I don't consider China direct as I have been burned before......
Same price range. $795. For those who, mistakenly, think it a better motor...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tomjasz » Dec 26 2015 3:01pm

fredfire wrote:Get better tires as you will go much faster you will get more flats. http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/943
Fact. Although my Kenda tires have never gotten a flat in 3000 miles of wear. The mid drives don't seem to be as hard on tires as hub drives. At least in my experience.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tomjasz » Dec 26 2015 3:03pm

Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

runnermj   100 µW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by runnermj » Jan 15 2016 7:30am

Hi All, just wanted to report back. I made the leap and purchased the BBSHD (go big or go home) from Luna Cycles. After some trials and tribulations, the kit is finally installed on the bike. Shout out to the Luna Cycle team for their help! Took it for a test ride around the block last night, wow! Can't wait for a longer ride this weekend before starting to commute to work next week. Question, I bought the generic ebrake sensor from Luna and tried to wire the yellow plug from the brake handle that was provided and I think I jacked it up. Is the red light supposed to come on when it's connected to the motor? I connected it to the front brake cable and it doesn't work. I think I must have messed up the wire connections. I didn't realized that Luna sold a Bafang ebrake sensor that already has the yellow connector, I would have bought that. Is the brake cable supposed to slide through the sensor, or is the sensor supposed to move along with the cable when it moves? Not sure how this is supposed to work. Also, on my short test ride, when I stopped pedaling the motor would cut off, couldn't this be done when shifting to minimize the grinding? Do I even need the brake sensor?
Thanks for your input, and I will try and post some pics of the build later.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tomjasz » Jan 16 2016 3:56am

runnermj wrote:Hi All, just wanted to report back. I made the leap and purchased the BBSHD (go big or go home) from Luna Cycles. After some trials and tribulations, the kit is finally installed on the bike. Shout out to the Luna Cycle team for their help! Took it for a test ride around the block last night, wow! Can't wait for a longer ride this weekend before starting to commute to work next week. Question, I bought the generic ebrake sensor from Luna and tried to wire the yellow plug from the brake handle that was provided and I think I jacked it up. Is the red light supposed to come on when it's connected to the motor? I connected it to the front brake cable and it doesn't work. I think I must have messed up the wire connections. I didn't realized that Luna sold a Bafang ebrake sensor that already has the yellow connector, I would have bought that. Is the brake cable supposed to slide through the sensor, or is the sensor supposed to move along with the cable when it moves? Not sure how this is supposed to work. Also, on my short test ride, when I stopped pedaling the motor would cut off, couldn't this be done when shifting to minimize the grinding? Do I even need the brake sensor?
Thanks for your input, and I will try and post some pics of the build later.
It should light up. It installs the opposite of what I expected. This will sort it. Yes tha BFang is easier. You didn't ask. <wink>
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Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tomjasz » Jan 16 2016 3:58am

Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

runnermj   100 µW

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by runnermj » Jan 16 2016 9:24am

Tom,
Yes I didn't ask, but I didn't know it existed. If I'm buying the Bafang, why would I have bought the universal sensor? I figured out the problem, I was told to only use 2 wires, not the red, when I spliced to the yellow connector. You need to use all 3, cost me another $20.

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Re: New BBS02 build

Post by tomjasz » Jan 16 2016 12:44pm

runnermj wrote:Tom,
Yes I didn't ask, but I didn't know it existed. If I'm buying the Bafang, why would I have bought the universal sensor? I figured out the problem, I was told to only use 2 wires, not the red, when I spliced to the yellow connector. You need to use all 3, cost me another $20.
Again my apologies for the misunderstanding, I meant it as a simple, silly, response.

I wish there were never any surprises or $20 slaps, but nearly every build has them. One of the frustrations of adapting a kit to our bikes. My first build required buying a new bike. $250 in fixes only produced a substandard eBike. Another $500 made the build perfect. Once the kit, lights, and all the accouterments were in place it's pretty much a $2500 bike, (maybe closer to $3000 if I really bear down and remember all the little bits and problems) but it's near perfect and it's great ride. It'll have the BBSHD this weekend.

Great to here you got it done and can soon enjoy the ride rather than frustrating details.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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