LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

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Föppel   100 W

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LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by Föppel » Mar 14 2016 4:36pm

Hey Guys,

thats my first Review, its based on a post i did in my photo+video-thread, but its more detailed and will be Edited for more informations if i missed something.

If you are new to the LR Middrife Kits, here some impressions of riding the Smallblock-kits at 2500-3000W


Starting at the beginning; i have ordered 5 Smallblock kits from Mike, just when he started offering the Kits. So all the Kits we have, are from the very first badge, think i was buyer number 29 or something. At this time, the axles of the jackshaft was made by softer steel then the axles he sells now. Also i think the mounting sheets are more stable in the newer versions, and Mike (Lightning Rods) how builds and sells those kits is making upgrades in every new version of his Middrifes.

with those 5 kits i builded 5 Bikes for me and Friends:

Devinci Wilson with LR-Kit:
3000-3500 Watt setting atm (at the moment), 4500km atm
Image

Trekking-Bike with LR-Kit:
setup for max 50km/h on 48Volt Lifepo 1500-2000W, build with a Merida-Dirtbike
Image

Dirtbike with LR-Kit:
Kit mounted in Frame, 24" Wheels, 2,7"Tires at 2700 Watt atm
Image

YT-Tues with LR-Kit:
3000-3500 Watt setting atm
Image

Spezialised BigHit:
Bike was not driven for long, later rebuilded...
Image

Santacruz V10
XL Frame, builded with the Smallblock kit of the Spezialised Bighit
Image

reason for the rebuild was the short Frame of the BigHit. At 2500W there was no chance to ride it without doing wheeles all the time, this was first funny, but not so practical in long term. Now with the XL sized Frame of the Santacruz its much more controlled riding.

All the Bikes get some upgrades over the years and running now at 3000-3500W setting. Only the Trekking-bike still runs at ca 1500W and didnt need to be upgraded yet.

The Smallblock Kit is rated 1500W. This Post is for those how also want to go to the max power that kit is capable off. The Kit can handle 3000W+ an be reliable, but you have to mount it very rigid and maybe lower the rduction a bit... more on that later.

I can say, its not the easyest to setup kit, you want to buy some spezial tools (Bottom bracket ISIS-type and 219 Chaintool for assembly ,freewheel removal tool and 3leg-puller is very usefull when dismounting), you should have a bit of mechanical knowledge and be patient when installing the kit to your Bike.
But its THE kit for going offroad and having a lot of fun, its one of (...or the one) most silent middrife i know about, it generates a lot of torque and can climbe more steep hills than im comfort with.

Also its capable of climbing hills for long time. Thats what we like the most.
2 of my friends also wanted to build a medium size DD hubmotors for hilly terrain as we usually ride.
they buyed the TC3065 in 24" Wheel and fried one on the first testride. The owner sayd, it was no fun anyway, compared with the LR-Kit he normally rides.

...Thats one of these Bikes, looks offroad, but isnt. build with a Scott Gambler and TC3065
Image
the fired one gets a rebuild with a MXUS on 5000W, maybe that will be good on the torque, but even haevier and worse for handling offroad... back to the smallblock kits -->

thats a smallblock kit, you see the Belt-side
Image

thats the 219-Chain side
Image

one of the first made smallblock-kits, 2 years later:
Image
Dirty, but still fully funkctional

Efficiency:
on my Bike (YT-Tues) i go about 30km with 75Volt 12.5Ah (937 Wh) when riding not that hard/offroad/normal ;-)
17-22Km when do much climbing hills
about 50km when i set the max power as low as 1000W

We checked our wh/km last time riding:
34 wh/km ---> 2500 - 3000W 70kg rider (me/my bike, now using 3500W)
37 wh/km ---> 2500W 80 kg rider
39wh/km ---> 3000W 85 kg rider
All are running 75Volt
(values are measured since bikes run 1st time (we started at 2000W)... not so accurate, but gives you an idea)

Edit:
Measuring no load amps:
250-290 Watt at 3500W-setting at 82 Volt battery power and with a very dirty drivetrain (Mud ride..)
140 Watt with a 2500W setting at 83 Volt battery power and with a very clean, new drivetrain (no Mud ride...)

i believe the differenz is made by the dirt in the drivetrains, not by the setting (not sure)

the LR-Kit in its naturally habitat
Image

The Riding/feeling:
We like to ride at 75V and 30-45Amp max. In the beginning we run 2000W just to see how things hold up.
while increasing the motorpower over the years, the riding and feeling changed a bit.


2000W: cool, i feel like i can ride everywhere (need to pedal when riding a steep hill)
2500W: more speed-up, more torque, steeper hills, going offroad, wheeles ahoi
3000W: cool, bikes start drifting when doing corners and hitting throttle

with 3500W setting, more drifting, nice, often kiss the mud, its a lot of fun, i feel like the bike can ride everywhere, but im not skilled enough yet to handle the power in technical terrain. So i will work on my riding before increasing the power further.
Also it looks like my controller can actually only give something around 3200 Watt, when set to 3500W.
Even when set to 3800 Watt... im into that and will update when this is cleared



What to do for running the Smallblock Kit at 3000W+ ?

The biggest problem when goining higher in amps/watts on the smallblock kit, is the bending force created mostly by the 2nd reduction.
Means that the Jackshaft on the 219Chain-side is pulled toward the crankarm.
This can cause bending of the sheets and your 219 chain will no more be alined. This then can cause a lot of problems like 219 Chain fall ing off or causing premature wearout on the sprockets. it also can effect the Belt side because of the slaggered Jackshaft and so on...

So the most important thing to do, is to mount the Kit as rigid as possible to your bike. The Mounting clamp seems to be ok for 1500W, with 3000W+ you will need much more mounting-power.

Here some example how we did:


on a devinci wilson
Image

on a Santacruz v10 (alu)
Image

Image

on a YT-Tues:
Image

As you see, we made a mounting-plate for each Bike. This plates connect the Bike with the motor and prevent things from twisting around.
Your goal when seting up a smallblock kit to your bike, should be to make it in the most stable way. This will save you much time and cost repairing it.

Image
foto of a friend welding his stainless-steel motorplate together

Bike-Frame:
We like to use DH-Bikes for this kit, they are something stronger than other bikes, we think thats most important.
Pchen92 reminded me on problems with swingarms when fullpower-starts. He said his GNG-Kit on around 3000W flexes the swingarm a bit sideways.

This will probably happen to all middrifes capable of this level of torque applied to the rear-wheel.
The Bike-chain pulls the rear-wheel sideways, and when not having a very strong pivot-point...

Image
on that bike (davinci wilson), it destroied the pivot 2 times. now we replaced the original-pivot with a fat screw. Simple and like new, for 7 money


at 3000W+ Belt skipping on the small Motor-Pully can be a problem. This causes wearout on the motor-pully and belt, that again causes more and more slipping and belts will rip. Replace it with a bigger pully will save you money.
You will lose some of the reduction ratio (originaly first reduction 1:5, we use 1:3.6), but works better for us.

wearout on pully
Image

Image

Belt slipping also can be caused by not having the correct tension on the belt. When you set up the kit, make sure everything is lined up 100% correct, Jackshaft have to be parallel to BB and Motor axle.

To set Belt and jackshaft:

--> Open the outer lockrings on the Jackshaft
--> give Belt the right tension with the set screws (right and left side, still parallel!)
--> tighten the rings on the jackshaft.

We take a flat screwdrifer and a little hammer to do this. so you dont have to remove the 90T Belt-pully only to tighten the rings.
firstly use the set screws only to set the jackshaft proper. The "screw on rings" on the Jackshaft are also force holding parts, and preventing your jackshat from getting pulled toward the BB. If its not thighted propper, chances are that the whole force goes on the setscrews of the jackshaft-part and things bend.

settscrew and lockring
Image

Also avoid tightening the setscrews (for adjusting chain or Belt) when the lockrings are tightened. I saw some people doing that


Belt and 90T urethan-puly
Image
both really reliable when everithing is set correct, i still use my first belt and 90T-pully

Wearout on Belt caused by not parallel jackshaft
Image

Axle:
Mike will offer now 15mm stainless axle, so that will be fine for 3000W.
I still have the "first badge" 12mm steel axle that tend to bend, but no problemos for now, will see what happens at 3500W over time.

Freewheel at 1st reduction:
earlyer, we fill them with grease to make them silent, now i think its better to not do that. They where silent but failed fast.
You can still do that on the Freewheel at the BB, for more silence, there it would be a good thing, because it only have to handle sideloads and human pedalpower there.
thats the standard ACS-freewheel opened
Image

We destroied some of the ACS on the Beltside, then welded them so they dont move anymore.
for us its the way to go with welding the FW (freewheel) on the 1st reduction, but you will have to pedal through the motor when you "delete" the FW there. Mike will offering Adapters soon, they do exactly the same thing --> deleting the freewheel.


219 Sprockets:
the sprocket on the Jackshaft can wear out fast when using a low tooth count like 12T. I prefer a bigger sprocket, it will last longer, also make your bike even more silent. Downside is the lost of reduction ratio, more speed, less torque.
For the 219 Sproket on the FW-Crank, we use those extrons made out of kevlar.
I think they run a bit smoother and quiter but have actually no referenz to a alu sprocket.

the Sprokets and chain we use:
Image


Reduction ratio of 2nd reduction:
by choosing the 219 Sprockets you set your redution ratio, this also means you set your torque and max-speed.

toothcounts on available diver sprockets are 12t to 20t
toothcounts on available driven sprockets are 60t to 95t but you can only use sizes 65t or higer

Image

12T to 92t would be 92:12= 7,6666

so 7,6666 times the torque coming from the Beltside. Thats one of the highest possible reduction ratios, and would create much torque and low speed.
When offroad riding, Torque is often more fun then speed. It makes you bike better for climbing, acceleration, for making wheeles, burnouts and drifts. But without a good speed, you dont have much fun with your acceleration and drifts. You can not shift gears to gain speed while doing cracy stuff...

earlier, we run 30amp with a big reduction, now 40-45 amp with a smaller reduction ratio, so we have enough torque for the hills and also enough speed for having fun (at 75volt). Thats absolutely a matter of taste, but less reduction means getting less stress on all the Parts, including all the bike parts= more reliability


Chainline of the 219 Chain (second reduction):
have to be set straight. You can adjust this by the way you build your freewheeling-crankarm.
Every bike i builded with the smallblock kit needed a different spacing to get a good chainline.
You can space on the crankarm or you can space (a little) at the BB.

in the front, those 2 grey rings, i used to space 1mm or 2.5mm on the BB-shell. there are still enough threads on the BB-cup to hold it tight.
Image

here we used a spacer-disc made out a sprocket-adapter from sickbikeparts (the ugly cutted part there...) to space on the crankarm.
Image

Chain tension is also important. To set this, dont use the setting screw on the jackshaft. Use the setting screws under the motor. Once set, screw the lower sheets tight.
on this place, we welded the sheets togehter to stop them from moving. this works, but then you cant set chain tension anymore.
Other people drilled a hole through the overlaping lower sheets and put a crew through to prevent the twisting force. (again, twisting force will be lower wehn you lower the reduction...)

Green Text only important when you have welded the Sheets, otherwise skip this...
If you have welded the Sheets there, you cant adjust the chaintension anymore. If you want to make a change in the 2nd reduction-ratio, you will have a problem with chain-length.

first we just tried different sprocket-combination until we found a combination that gives the chain a "tight fit".
Later we realized that you just have to find one fitting reduction ratio.

So lets say you have a "tight fit" by using 14T (on Jackshaft) and a 80T sprocket (on Crankarm).
Now you want more reduction (more torque, lower speed) and still tight fit, you have to use a 83T on the Crankarm. So 3 tooth more or less will result in a longer/shorter chain with about the same chaintension.
If you want to make a different setting using a bigger sprocket on the jackshaft - lets say a 15T instead of the 14T - you would need a 81T on the Crankarm, and so on.
This "theory" is not mathematicaly proofen, but seems to work . Hope this will save you some hours trying to find possible combinations


An other way to get a better chain-tension on the 2nd reduction, is by adding a Chain-tensioner.
i builded it from a normal singlespeed-bikechaintensioner.
Image
if your chain is only a little bit loose, this will help.

i nicked them with a sharp blade for making a bit more clearence for the 219 chain
Image

We had that one case where the chain was quite loose and running to a small 219 sprocket (12T), that + the tensioner caused the 219 Chain to get stiff and wears out the sprockets very fast. not even a good WD40 treatment made a differenz there.
With a good set and straight chainline, you will not have such problems.

new chain
Image

gefickte chain...
Image

...causes gefickte sprockets...
Image
... so dont forget to set your chainline right and regulary oil your chain with WD40 will last your parts much longer.


FW-crankarm with the HD Freewheel, you need this when going higher power. Cheaper ACS starts to wobble fast when increasing power.
Image

The HD-Freewheel isnt cheap ( 80 USD) but reliable. We tried it with the ACS (25 USD) but they fail at 3000W. there is also a UHD freewheel available now thats even stronger, but the HD does the job at 3000W

ISIS BB (bottom bracket).
this is a very reliable part, doesnt need upgrade
Image
just make sure your BB-treads are cleen when screwing it in. Dont hurt the fine treads by screwing it in inclined... if you allready did, go to a bike-mech they have the cutting tool to fix this :roll: :D

3rd reduction:
the 3rd reduction or "final reduction" is from your FW-Crankarm to you bike-gears. We lazercutted the Crankarm-Plate from 4mm Stainless steel (3mm had be enough...) and used these sprockets with the 5 hole-patern:
Image
they hold up, have no comparison to the original Crankarm-design.

Crank-Sprocket (Bike chain sprocket):
i like to use a 36T-40T Sprocket on the crankarm, for this size you can also find chain-guards from Downhillbikes. Also smaller sprocket sizes are more easy when you want to adjust your chainline more to the center of the bike (when using the bigger gears). Most Frames have limited space, in some cases its impossible to fit a big sprocket like a 48T.
Some of my friends like to use 44T or 48T, matter of taste...

chain-guards from Downhillbikes:
Bike-chain can drop when juming/landing, this can drive you crazy... since i installed one, no more chaindrop.
EDIT: Buddy installed one on the santacruz he had some chainfalls with, since then no porblemo

Image
usually this chain guards are for sprockets of 36-40T, didnt found it for bigger Crank-sprokets.

Casette:
For the Casette, i use the cheapest sram or shimano, cassette 9 speed, its haevy and solid (the more expensive ones are usually lighter and less strong)
Dirty Sram-X9 cassette, dereilleur and chain.
Image

on those cheaper 9speed casettes, the smallest sprocket is usually 11T, biggest is 32-36T.
You will not drive at 3000W on the 11T, its to small, it will brake. I use only the 3 biggest gears, most of the time i use the biggest sprocket (lowest speed, highest torque). I have setup the bike speed to around 30-33 km/h in the slowest gear, still enough torque for me.

Dereilleur:
SRAM X9 works good at 3000W, just dont shift gears under (haevy) load, this would destroy every chain, or dereilleur...
We also tested one of the SRAM X0, makes not much a differenz, only in the price...


Bike-Chain.
As i use a 9x cassette, i also use the 9x Chain, same principle as the asette --> take the cheapest one ;-)
We also tried the 55 USD KMC-Ebkie-chain... the cheap SRAMs and Shimanos are more reliable at 3000W, everything with holo-pins failed on our reduction-ratio.

Oiling the Chains:
keeping your 219 chain and bike chain oiled, we use WD 40... normal process before every second riding
Image
EDIT : gman says wd40 is no oil, i should use dry-lube, so i do this for now.
for the first 40Km, chains run on same low noise level, will see how long it takes for needing a re-oil[/color]

Here a alternetive product to WD40, its called Balistol form Germany:
Image
...Balistol makes your chains smooth, also it can be used for many other purposed like sterailze wounds and making you dog have shiny hair...(?) strange, but works very well.
Edit: works well on chains, not tested on dogs yet

Hub:
the DT-Swiss is our first choice, it have no pawls but axial ratchet. It can full power starts for long times.
On one Bike i have a Division Hub, thats one with pawls, and it holds 3500W now. On an other Bike, the hub (with pawls) failed at 2500W.
The DT Swiss hub on a friends bike have 4000 km now, looks still like new when we opened it.

Wheel/Tire:
we use a lot tires with this kit, so we like to buy cheap DH-Tire-staples second hand from Pro-Riders (at 80% profile they normaly change them)
on front wheel we use a new tire sometimes. There, it is much more reliable than the on the rear wheel.

Controller:
You will need a sensored controller. Well, you can go with a sensorless one, but i highly recommand a sensored.

For now, i have the Infineon 12 fet at 75volt, 40amp rated, getting around 3200W. Will try to get higher in amps now (45+) with the same Controller, and report on that.
Sensorless Infineon 12 Fet didnt work very well (Project of a Friend), he tries the Kellys now (with sensors).

For finding the right collor-combination of the halls and phase wires, i use this chart:
Image
Its very easy, as you dont have to switch the small hallsensore wires with this method, and only trying like 5 different Phase-combinations.
There is/are some combinations they will spin the Motor, but making noisy sound.
Thats not the right combination... try again.


Bike Frame:
Straight downtube and square shaped would be ideal. So you have a easy time mounting the Kit your way.
The more you have a bent downtube, the less it will be plug and play.
Also the Swingarm-Pivot should be as massive as possible, this allows you to apply more torque to the rear wheel without bending the Swingarm.


Screws:
We replaced most of the screws with stainless steel-screws, locktight everything, use nordloch-discs and nylon nuts ;-)

thats enough for today, i will finish this later the week with some more fotos to the parts etz.
Also pchen92 made a good point that some bikes tend to flex a bit on the swingarm at 3000W, will get into that next time.
i get asked about the no load amps of the bike, i will check this next ride.
if i have forgot something, please write it and i will edit.
Last edited by Föppel on Apr 02 2016 6:52pm, edited 5 times in total.
Riding dirty since 1684
Fotos and Videos here : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=68182
Small-block Kits on 3000W+ here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=78861

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by Föppel » Mar 14 2016 4:52pm

And here the Links to the other videos of the smallblock-Bikes, starting with the newest:

EDIT: all the videos postet here are made on private Property(s) and/or in a Country where this is absolutely legal, and/or no one cares when you drife responsible and dont hurt/startle/cumber others.

fooling around part II:



fooling around:


a bit of dirt


a bit of snow


autumn and leafs


in the woods


summer ride


dirty reagge


first video



Here are the Videos of the assembling of the Smallblock kit:











Last edited by Föppel on Apr 02 2016 5:44pm, edited 5 times in total.
Riding dirty since 1684
Fotos and Videos here : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=68182
Small-block Kits on 3000W+ here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=78861

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by DingusMcGee » Mar 16 2016 6:41am

Föppel,

thanks for all the work of invention to get the LR SM BK useful at 3000 watts.

Your post is testimony that 153 pages of "engineering" crowd sourcing [see: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=57720] lacks any real engineering design criteria. I say this because if the 1500 watt kit had a safety factor of a mere 2 we would not see component failure of parts in the kit at 3000 watts.

I am sure the LR kit was not designed with drive train shock loading as part of the design criteria.

What if our cars were like the LR kit? We would be making adjustments all the time for belts, looking for frame twisting etc.

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by SlowCo » Mar 16 2016 8:12am

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... start=3800

DickMcGee, It seems you've got a chip on your shoulder about the Lightning Rod kits and are now using other peoples threads to vent your whining... :roll:

As I read it Föppel is clearly stating he has 5 of the first run batches of the 1500W small block kits he is hotrodding to 3500W. So what car do you drive that you have more than doubled the power output of without problems :?: :lol:

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by DingusMcGee » Mar 16 2016 8:22am

SlowCo,

If you understood the idea of a design safety factor, you would see how my proposition is substantiated by the Föppel story whether or not he has 5 of the first run batches
Last edited by DingusMcGee on Mar 16 2016 9:58am, edited 1 time in total.

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by DingusMcGee » Mar 16 2016 8:30am

Slowco,

I have a 2009 Toyota Rav 4 with the 4cy at 179 hp. I could have got the car with the v-6 at 283 hp. These cars do hold up to the 283 hp as we see it does. The ratio is 1.58 but it seems more likely the Rav 4 would hold up to 358 hp better than the LR s-block does to 3000 watts.

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by DingusMcGee » Mar 16 2016 10:07am

SlowCo,

you say,
DickMcGee, It seems you've got a chip on your shoulder about the Lightning Rod kits and are now using other peoples threads to vent your whining...
Welcome to the internet SlowCo, where we can post the stupidest things on anyone's thread. I would hope you could give me self same sovereignty that you use to do such things.

I or anyone can post anything[unless removed by the moderator] and my challenge to you is about whether you can grant me the sovereignty to do such. It is not about the veracity of the content.

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by SlowCo » Mar 16 2016 10:26am

I do understand the need for design safety factors. I don't understand why you take a complete car as an example for comparison to the engine used on a bicycle frame...

The Lightning Rod 1500W kit is an engine that drives the gears (cassette or freewheel) of the bicycle it propels. Like wise the 179hp 4 cylinder internal combustion engine in your car drives the gears in the gearbox that propels the rest of the car.

Now try to extract more than double the power from the engine without changing the internals. See how the design safety factor works out for you. Then when the engine has blown up in your face go see if complaining to Toyota gets better results... :roll:

BTW thanks for the warm welcome to the internet. It's a very nice place. Just a shame I seem to step in some troll bait once in a while. :wink:

All the best to you.

Edited to ad: @Föppel, apologies for replying to the troll (?) in your thread. You seem to be having some serious fun with your bike. Keep up the good work and keep posting the fantastic videos!

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Marin   1 kW

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by Marin » Mar 16 2016 10:50am

Hey Ding dong

do you realize you are ruining great thread by all your bull, Foppel thanks for all your posts I'm glad you take the time to post for us all that you do,

please disregard some peoples ignorance and ride on
Marin ex-rental hybrid with 48v bionx...sold
Specialized hardrock with magic pie 4-5
Lunacycle with l/r mid drive coming soon
Kona Caldera with QS 30H (maybe), and phase runner
Giant Yukon bbs02
Kona Abra Cadabra bbshd
Wildfire fat bike bbshd

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LightningRods   10 MW

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by LightningRods » Mar 16 2016 12:30pm

Thanks for a great thread Foppel!
"I don’t mind that they stole my idea, I mind that they don’t have any of their own.”
-Nikola Tesla

Lightning Rods Web Site http://www.lightningrodev.com
Lightning Rods Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lightnin ... 4531978401

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by DingusMcGee » Mar 16 2016 2:04pm

SlowCo,

you first ask,
So what car do you drive that you have more than doubled the power output of without problems :?: :lol:
Next I reply:
I have a 2009 Toyota Rav 4 with the 4cy at 179 hp. I could have got the car with the v-6 at 283 hp. These cars do hold up to the 283 hp as we see it does. The ratio is 1.58 but it seems more likely the Rav 4 would hold up to 358 hp better than the LR s-block does to 3000 watts.
then you say:
I don't understand why you take a complete car as an example for comparison to the engine used on a bicycle frame...
And now I will ask: Do you have any memory?

You ask, "what car...

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 16 2016 2:27pm

Hey, Föppel...thanks for the great gearing info. I'm happy with my LR small-block, but I certainly don't run as much power as you do. However, its good to know what upgrades I'll need if I ever decide to kick it up a notch.

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by Föppel » Mar 16 2016 2:44pm

Hey guys, not sure whats that hating was about.

You have problems with the noise of the smallblock kit?
wich part makes the noise? i dont know...
maybe can give you helping advise if you write your problem so i can understand it.

love to all how get my "review"-post as a trying of being helpful, anyhow
Riding dirty since 1684
Fotos and Videos here : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=68182
Small-block Kits on 3000W+ here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=78861

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by Föppel » Mar 16 2016 3:53pm

Hey Spinningmagnets, what gearing do you use, and for wich operation purpose using it?


As me and my friends ever since want to ride the Kits with max Power, we used the biggest possible gearing ratios in the past.
By now, i think if you want the maximum power the kit is capable off, you have to lower the reduction, so parts dont get that much hate.
Then you can upp the amps for getting the torque in a reliable, endurance way.

i added/editet the assembly-explaining videos, i think those are very helpful for people how just get the kit and are in the process of building.
once i find the time, i will also write/edit the whole thing in a more easy to understanding way for people like me how have to check every second word in a english-dictionary ;-)

Cheers guys, and ride on
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Föppel   100 W

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by Föppel » Mar 21 2016 11:58am

i have Edited the "review" a bit, also made a short video of weekend riding with friends.
...everything runs smooth, only upgrades to do are Chain-guids on friends bikes, chain was falling about 4 times each, on theyr bikes.





Also i get more interessted in the CA-settings, would like to have a smoother throttle on the start, dont know how to set this in CA3. Some advise someone?
Riding dirty since 1684
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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by gman1971 » Mar 22 2016 2:28pm

Why not buy a Cyclone 3000W kit? is just 370 bucks and seems to work fairly reliable too; at least that has been my experience and a few other guys on the C3000 thread...

That stripped crank didn't look good... it looks like you are going to eat chains and drivetrain parts like "no mañana" I have been pumping 2.2-2.3 kW out of my C3000 on 48V 12S LiPo and I yet have to break a chain or destroy a chainring....

BTW, WD40 won't lube your chain, so I would advice to use proper dry lube for chains.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by gman1971 » Mar 22 2016 2:34pm

hey Dingus, its just not worth arguing over it... I would just let him spend a fortune on repairing stuff... just like I did once... "been there done that"

If he uses his bike for commute then he will quickly realize that stripping cranks once a week its not practical, but if he rides just for fun on the weekends (as it looks like) then he'll probably never care about longevity or fixing or repairing it daily... :)

G.
DingusMcGee wrote:SlowCo,

you first ask,
So what car do you drive that you have more than doubled the power output of without problems :?: :lol:
Next I reply:
I have a 2009 Toyota Rav 4 with the 4cy at 179 hp. I could have got the car with the v-6 at 283 hp. These cars do hold up to the 283 hp as we see it does. The ratio is 1.58 but it seems more likely the Rav 4 would hold up to 358 hp better than the LR s-block does to 3000 watts.
then you say:
I don't understand why you take a complete car as an example for comparison to the engine used on a bicycle frame...
And now I will ask: Do you have any memory?

You ask, "what car...
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by Föppel » Mar 23 2016 3:39pm

gman1971, i didnt read that thread, will do when have some time.
tried different wax and oils for the chain(s), i stay with the WD40. I dont like cleaning bike(chain), WD40 can oil the chain through the mud like no other oil ;-)
Riding dirty since 1684
Fotos and Videos here : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=68182
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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by gman1971 » Mar 23 2016 3:44pm

Föppel wrote:gman1971, i didnt read that thread, will do when have some time.
tried different wax and oils for the chain(s), i stay with the WD40. I dont like cleaning bike(chain), WD40 can oil the chain through the mud like no other oil ;-)
I don't like cleaning chains either, but I must if I want to get 2000+ miles out of one... especially so driving on the snow with salt and crap on the road... which is probably worse than mud. I use dry oil which is much better than the regular drippy chain luges. Stays in there for weeks and it seems to make the chains super smooth.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by Föppel » Mar 28 2016 8:19am

gman, i got some of the dry lubricant, and a cleaning-spray. Cleaned the chains and applied the (also wd40-brand-) dry lube stuff.
Image
for the first ride (25km) the chains were on same low noise level like with the normal wd40 treatment, now hope that this last longer as the wd 40 does.


also weather was nice the last days, so we grabd the Bikes for fooling around in the woods

Riding dirty since 1684
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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by gman1971 » Mar 28 2016 11:45am

Nice, glad it worked. I was amazed when my friend told me about those dry lubes... but since you run the thing through its paces the longevity of the dry lube is yet TBD... :)

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by Föppel » Mar 29 2016 5:18pm

yeah looks good!
the bikechain on that bike have 500km+, and its the cheapest (...from sram, 9 speed). so im glad that it hold up that long.
the 219-chains are much more robust, when set them right, they dont failed even with mud all over, eaten small limbs and a lot of leafes...
all soaked with wd40... :D

i like the drylube, will see if it makes a diffenez when next time riding in mud.

cheers
Riding dirty since 1684
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Small-block Kits on 3000W+ here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=78861

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by Föppel » Apr 02 2016 4:50pm

Update on the drylubed chains after 70km more riding:

Foto much to big, you can scroll in/out to see the Dirt... press ctrl. while turn the mouse scrolling-wheel ,or so
Image
weather was nice last week, so there was not much mud and dirt flying around the chains.

looks good on the Bikechain, and medium on the 219-chain . To clear this, im talking about the amount of mud they catched up.
this is blaspheme on high level ;-) since everyting runs well, we spend time on the little things...

So about 100km total on that chains (since drylubed. not my Bike). Looks like normal "dirtynes of chain" for that. Not re-oiled or cleaned since --> not bad in my opinion.

Then again, the 219-Chain + Kevlar-sprokets seems to handle dirt good anyway. Something better than the 9speed Bike chain.
i think its only important that the 219 Chain is "oiled" between the moving parts (Pin and ... the other thing... dont know the word).
So for that "oils" like WD40 with a high "creeping ability" (google-translate...) are good. The Drylube i used seems to do that good too.

As i wrote before, that we tried some other lubes, before WD40 became our joice; the quintessenz of this testing around with lubes was as mentioned before; more creeping ability (please tell me the right word) is good.
The dry-waxes didnt worked well for that. The WD40-kind drylube works definitive better.

For the 219 chain, Rust wasnt a big problem, even trough winter... maybe the WD40 protectet, or the Chains dont rust much at all, i dont know.

Only problem we had, is that the links get stiff when not lubing... and the lower your toothcount on the 219 sproket (on jackshaft), the faster this can happen. (12T is low, 18T is big... we use 18T or similar now).
Riding dirty since 1684
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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by gman1971 » Apr 03 2016 2:05pm

wow, that is really dirty... haha... what do you do, underwater riding in mud??

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: LightningRods Smallblock kit at 3000W+ Review

Post by Föppel » Apr 06 2016 2:24pm

its the bike of a friend, not sure where he rides when im not around ;-)
i think that level of dirt is fine. As long as the 9 speeds shift easy and noise is low, its ok for me.
thanks for the drylube-tip again.
Riding dirty since 1684
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Small-block Kits on 3000W+ here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=78861

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