Lashout/Rayous Ques. on Washers and Sprockets->Currie/Zip?

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DrInnovation   100 W

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Lashout/Rayous Ques. on Washers and Sprockets->Currie/Zip?

Post by DrInnovation » Mar 22 2016 2:16pm

I've been riding a Lashout for a while now and I've replaced the planetary gear 4 times. The last time it only lasted about 1 month. The internal bearing seems to wobble and eat the gearing to the bearing quickly. (The plenary gears themselves are fine, it the connect the the bearing shaft that is eaten away).
Looking for parts I found EVdeals has a washer set with 5 washers.. my unit only seems to have 3, so I'm guessing the missing ones were destroyed, which is making the wobble worse and eating the gear faster.I have no idea how long they have been missing. Would missing washers be enough to increase the rate of destruction?

EVdeals lists a thruswaser kit.. for $12 for nylon washers (and probably days for shipping.. they did not answer my emails). Any reason I should not just pick up a few at Lowes and trim/use those?

I have a steep ride to work (10-15%) and while I pedal hard, I wonder if the torque is just too much causing the regular eating of the plenary gear head. Any opinions if getting a larger sprocket on the bike help much. I could not find a sprocket with >54 teeth that would bold on the 6-bolt pattern of the disk brake area, but wondered if I got say an 80tooth one and drilled and bolted it to the existing 54 tooth sprocket would that be viable?



I've put in over $100 in parts over the past year, wondering if I should be repair and sell it and look for a cheap hub.. Your advice welcome.
Last edited by DrInnovation on Mar 22 2016 8:09pm, edited 2 times in total.
Owner of a Crystalyte 4012/409 with 10aH 16s Headway on a old huffy frame. Its not fast but it climbs my daily commute up 8% and 10% grades nicely. Washout frame with a "e-bike" front-drive hub with a home-built 18650-based 20ah-36v. My bigger "E-ride" is a chevy volt.

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Re: Lashout/Synergy/Rayous Questions on Washers and Sprocket

Post by amberwolf » Mar 22 2016 2:28pm

On the gearset, how well greased was it initially, and how well sealed is the housing to keep the grease in and grit out?

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RE:Lashout//Rayous Ques. on Washers and Sprockets->Currie/Zi

Post by DrInnovation » Mar 22 2016 2:43pm

amberwolf wrote:On the gearset, how well greased was it initially, and how well sealed is the housing to keep the grease in and grit out?
Well greased.. each time I replace the plenary I remove all the old grease (as it has lots of metal shards) and replace with new white grease.

The housing on the plenary/motor side is well sealed, but on the plenary/shaft side its somewhat exposed as the chain must have an opening.

I've never taken it apart when working well to see if much dirt has gotten in.. by the time I hear the gears slipping/grinding, its has metal shaving it it, but that is not surprising then as the gear teeth have been shaved moderately before they slip.

In the last failure, I think the slip-ring that holds the bearing in tight might have popped out as the bearing was protruding out the back end of its housing more than normal.. I pushed it in and heard a click. That is part of why I looked for parts.. and learned I was missing washers.



My idea for reducing stress was to change the sprockets to increase power (and reduce top end speed) and thus reduce the stress to the motor. Not sure if that will actually reduce the stress on the motor or how much I should try to change the gearing. My initial ice was buy something like this

And then bolt it on to my existing sprocket that looks like this
s-l500.jpg
s-l500.jpg (32.03 KiB) Viewed 630 times
over the bolded on 54 tooth one:
LashoutBikeSprocket.jpg
LashoutBikeSprocket.jpg (11.35 KiB) Viewed 629 times
The hole on the 80tooth should be big enough to fit over the 6 bolts holding it on to the disk brake mount.

My question is is going from 54 to 80 too much? The current ration is 4.8:1 for the planetary reduction then 2.84 for the sprockets (54/19) for 13.64 overall. With an 80 tooth it would be reduced to an overall of 20.2:1. (A 50% change in the overall ratio. )

Should I be looking for something bigger than 54 but smaller than 80? (Say a 65 that would be a 20% change in overall ratio). Anyone have experience with re-gearing want to comment as I don't know what to expect in terms of reduce stress on the parts. Its not clear to me how to estimate the reduced stress on the planetary gear coupling?.

Given my parts is there something better I could do? Could/Should I adapt it to a Curie type system with a different gear head
(Something like
s-l1600.jpg
s-l1600.jpg (141.15 KiB) Viewed 202 times
is pretty cheap for me to get. But the reading I've done suggested the lashout design was more powerful than the Currie/zip approach.
Owner of a Crystalyte 4012/409 with 10aH 16s Headway on a old huffy frame. Its not fast but it climbs my daily commute up 8% and 10% grades nicely. Washout frame with a "e-bike" front-drive hub with a home-built 18650-based 20ah-36v. My bigger "E-ride" is a chevy volt.

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Re: Lashout/Rayous Ques. on Washers and Sprockets->Currie/Zi

Post by mountain biker » Apr 16 2016 12:55pm

so how goes it....did your 20 to 1 ratio help you up ur hill? i have been looking for sidemount ideas and designs.....it seems to be something the manufactures seemed to drop except currie.......

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Re: Lashout/Rayous Ques. on Washers and Sprockets->Currie/Zi

Post by DrInnovation » Apr 24 2016 8:46am

well, I did not (yet) modify the sprockets. I'm not sure I could fit an 80.. the gears would be almost touching (I did not measure it precise enough).

But before ordering I decided to test the thrust washer issue. I ended up going to lowes and getting some nylon washers and then drilling them out to fit the smaller sprocket/bearing. that connects with the planetary gear.
The layout is similar to that posed on EVdeals Image but my sprocket is different with a ring-clip rather than the permanent bulge to hold in the sprocket. I drilled out and then packed 2 nylon + 2 metal washers between the sprocket and edge of the housing, and 1 nylong (+ 1 metal) between the sprocket and the planetary. The sprocket could no longer move along its axis and it was tight enough there was some resistance, so I greased it up. Since then I've not heard a gear grinding noise a single time (it used to be a regular occurrence). Its been 3+ weeks, so I think for now this is working. I am now hypothesizing that maybe the problem was that the original nylon washers were so worn when I bought the bike (Craigs list for $250) that the bearing/sprockets could move in/out enough to eat away the planetary gear. I'm hoping this 4$ repair is enough that I don't have to modify the sprockets.
Owner of a Crystalyte 4012/409 with 10aH 16s Headway on a old huffy frame. Its not fast but it climbs my daily commute up 8% and 10% grades nicely. Washout frame with a "e-bike" front-drive hub with a home-built 18650-based 20ah-36v. My bigger "E-ride" is a chevy volt.

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Re: Lashout/Rayous Ques. on Washers and Sprockets->Currie/Zi

Post by mountain biker » Jun 02 2016 1:18am

so how does the side mount go? you said a 20 to 1 ratio. what's the engine rpm maybe roughly 3600rpm no load..so is that 175 rpm roughly? i bet your take off is amazing on the flat. so you typically cruize 10 mph up a hill or on the flat? what speed do you get when you go up your 8 percent grade and 10 percent grade? and how long are these hills? i bet your battery consumption is great with such a big ratio. i don't know of any hub motors with a 20 to 1 ratio? most seem to go around 8 to 1. or 15 to 1. not to sound crazy but i always wondered if you could hook up a cassete on those things either at the motor or on the wheel. you know two speed cassete or 5 speed or 6 speed. but you would really only need two. just make them say final ratio 15 to 1 and 30 to 1 for low. or if you could fit a igh somwhere off the motor. do you have a cassete now on the other side of the bike?

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Re: Lashout/Rayous Ques. on Washers and Sprockets->Currie/Zi

Post by DrInnovation » Jun 02 2016 10:30am

Well the washers did not really solve the problem... the gear just popped out the back side (where there is nothing stopping other than the C-ring clip which it just popped off.
But decided not to pursue the side-mount approach. Parts were not easy to find unless I used the planetary gear that is what gives me problems. Was looking very hard at a cyclone system but the seller could not find all the parts.. I in the end I was able to get a great deal on a 409/4012 dual-speed hub and battery.. so I'll be switching over to a hub system and then selling this (to aa lighter person.. ) Calculations show that hub can handle my hills tough it will use more current, but I do want something that is reliable (its my daily commuter), so even the cyclone was a concern from reliability. Crystalsis hub such be less maintenance.
Owner of a Crystalyte 4012/409 with 10aH 16s Headway on a old huffy frame. Its not fast but it climbs my daily commute up 8% and 10% grades nicely. Washout frame with a "e-bike" front-drive hub with a home-built 18650-based 20ah-36v. My bigger "E-ride" is a chevy volt.

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