New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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chas58   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by chas58 » Jun 01 2017 4:27pm

good question...
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

RTIII   1 kW

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The TRULY New TSDZ3 - anyone have experience?

Post by RTIII » Jun 02 2017 5:54pm

Hi All,

I am very grateful to all who have contributed to this thread. I've read the whole thing, and I'm convinced that the TSDZ2 is a great system, well worth the $$, and THIS GROUP has supplied a kind of support-group for sharing knowledge that's quite remarkable. I was just about to "pull the trigger" and buy one when I suddenly noticed that the TSDZ3 is now available!

But I'm hesitant for a few reasons...

Firstly, it sure would be nice to confirm that it's an evolutionary improvement over the TSDZ2 and not a wholesale replacement. Completely new systems always have developmental issues and it looks as though the older model has already gone through that process and I'd hate to be back at "square one" with the new unit. For example, there's now a bronze gear available for the DZ2 which replaces the infamous blue non-metal gear. ANY experience anyone could share about this new unit would be very much appreciated.

Secondly, I'm very puzzled by the ads. Here we see it in no better voltage or wattage than the earlier unit - and PSWPower doesn't seem to have any other versions of it:

http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp? ... 2H3X.3SVEX

...While Biktrix advertises it as a "48V, 53v", "500W / 700W" product:

https://www.biktrix.com/products/tongsh ... ebike-mid-$

...And those were the ONLY two ads I found for it.

As an aside, I've searched reasonably hard but have never yet found the Tongsheng corporate web site - who doesn't have one these days? The company's proper name is, "Suzhou Industrial Park Tongsheng Bicycle Co. Ltd.". I found several different addresses for them, so I don't have faith that any are correct. One site claims their phone number is: 86-51265973973. Of course, not speaking any dialect of Chinese, I haven't called! There's an interesting web page about them here:

http://bikeparts.company.weiku.com/product/

I find it rather amazing I can't find their corporate web site, but maybe someone who owns the product got their web address in some documentation?

Thank you for your thoughts,
RT

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by leelorr » Jun 02 2017 8:59pm

The first link you posted, to Pswpower, is to a model that requires a custom frame. It can not really be used to easily convert an existing bicycle...

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jun 02 2017 9:43pm

leelorr wrote:The first link you posted, to Pswpower, is to a model that requires a custom frame. It can not really be used to easily convert an existing bicycle...
You're right, thanks, and I noticed that too, and am VERY puzzled by it! Not a great way to get your new product adopted! -shrug-

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Steu851 » Jun 03 2017 12:53am

RTIII wrote:Hi All,

As an aside, I've searched reasonably hard but have never yet found the Tongsheng corporate web site - who doesn't have one these days?
RT

http://www.tsbicycle.net/

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Re: The TRULY New TSDZ3 - anyone have experience?

Post by KarlTheCool » Jun 03 2017 5:02am

RTIII wrote:Hi All,
...While Biktrix advertises it as a "48V, 53v", "500W / 700W" product:

https://www.biktrix.com/products/tongsh ... ebike-mid-$
RT
Biktrix claims they have custom made ones that handle higher voltages than others. The guy said he'd make a video to prove it that I'm waiting on.

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Re: New

Post by RTIII » Jun 03 2017 9:49am

Steu851 wrote:
RTIII wrote:Hi All,

As an aside, I've searched reasonably hard but have never yet found the Tongsheng corporate web site - who doesn't have one these days?
RT

http://www.tsbicycle.net/

Sent usingTapatalk
THANK YOU SO MUCH!

In my searches I found a link to tsbicycle.COM but the domain name is available (for about $2000!)

Went to that site and ... it's a pretty darned crappy site in many ways, but still, nice to get SOME new data. It appears the new DZ3 is a weld-in-only kit?! VERY strange! Makes no sense to me. Perhaps they're thinking the limit of BB installations has been reached and more power requires a welded-in bracket. Even so, I can think of simpler ways than what they chose!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jun 03 2017 10:00am

The current images posted on the official Tongsheng web site show the TSDZ2 with brake handles and "left hand operation switches", and these confuse me.

Here's a link to what I'm talking about:
http://www.tsbicycle.net/products_detai ... d=136.html

I was under the impression brake cut-out switches are unnecessary and not provided?!

Can someone explain, please, what are these "left-hand switches" all about? I thought the VLCD5 that comes with the kit had all the functions? You need both?

Also, I'm about to order one of these and the vendor has it pictured with the XH18 controller / display and NOT the VLCD5. But, given my handle bars being the traditional 10-speed (curl down and the outer ends are pointed rearward), I figured that would be bad because it's 90 degrees opposed to the rider. Yes, I could change handle-bars, but... ... So, I asked and the vendor wants - if I understand them correctly - $50 more for supplying the kit with the VLCD5 instead. I think that's crazy! But another thought came to me; while it's dry here most of the time, what about weather-proofing? <b>Any comments, please, on the weatherproofing of the electronics?</b> ... the XH18, VLCD5, "left hand operation switches"? ... THANKS IN ADVANCE! ... If none of this is weather proof, I'll have to come up with my own solution, but if some is and not others, now would be a good time to know!

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Norton   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Norton » Jun 03 2017 2:25pm

RTIII wrote:..I was under the impression brake cut-out switches are unnecessary and not provided?!

Can someone explain, please, what are these "left-hand switches" all about? I thought the VLCD5 that comes with the kit had all the functions? You need both?...
Maybe they are talking about the throttle kit add-on. That could be mounted on the left side.
I understand the same thing that if it is only torque sensing when the pedalling stops, the power stops, so no need for brake switches.
I suppose a dummy could be pulling on a brake while continuing to pedal... or hold the throttle.... So I'll try to find brake sensor switches that I can use with my current disc brake/shifter levers.

So,,, I just ordered this 500W 48V kit from amazon and it comes with a 48V / 17.5Ah battery pack for $940 shipped. I bought the throttle for $27. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07 ... UTF8&psc=1
Arrives "June 21 - July 7"
I'll be reporting about it.

I'll be adding a display for V, Amp, Watts and kWh's, so I'll be able to tell if this battery does what it claims to do. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1
I used this display on my trolling motor battery box. It requires a big ugly shunt, but works fine with that system.
I'll have to figure out a nice mounting method for the bike. The shunt could be place in a small length of PVC just to keep it safe.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thowaa » Jun 04 2017 3:36am

Brake handles with power-off switches are optional with the VLCD5. You don't really need them.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mscoot » Jun 04 2017 5:02am

My kit came with those brake levers but I never used them. I planned on modifying one of them to make a sort of shift sensor to use with my Alfine 11 IGH. It's not really needed, but I figured I could make it shift quicker at higher assist levels with a gear sensor. Unassisted, the A11 IGH is the fastest shifting system I've ever tried. With this motor it doesn't really put in the next gear until power tapers off so there's a small lag when I shift. With external gearing I guess a gear sensor is unnescessary

Later on I switched to an xh18 display and there was no longer an option to plug in those levers so I just decided to live with a bit of lag.

Weatherproofing is fine. I've been through rain, snow, sleet and 15 degrees below zero and it works just fine. My Xh18 is mounted on handlebars with about 45 degrees backsweep. That doesn't bother me. In fact I think it is quite nice to not have that big display in my face telling me the speed. The simpler the cockpit, the better imo.

Water does get into the motor casings though. I've opened it up a few times to add grease. Every time there're a few drops of water dripping out. It doesn't seem to affect the way it runs, but I wouldn't submerge the motorcasings in water. In really cold weather I get some error messages that I think are related to low voltage from the battery. That doesn't seem to affect the way it runs either, but battery life is shortend.


RTIII wrote:The current images posted on the official Tongsheng web site show the TSDZ2 with brake handles and "left hand operation switches", and these confuse me.

Here's a link to what I'm talking about:
http://www.tsbicycle.net/products_detai ... d=136.html

I was under the impression brake cut-out switches are unnecessary and not provided?!

Can someone explain, please, what are these "left-hand switches" all about? I thought the VLCD5 that comes with the kit had all the functions? You need both?

Also, I'm about to order one of these and the vendor has it pictured with the XH18 controller / display and NOT the VLCD5. But, given my handle bars being the traditional 10-speed (curl down and the outer ends are pointed rearward), I figured that would be bad because it's 90 degrees opposed to the rider. Yes, I could change handle-bars, but... ... So, I asked and the vendor wants - if I understand them correctly - $50 more for supplying the kit with the VLCD5 instead. I think that's crazy! But another thought came to me; while it's dry here most of the time, what about weather-proofing? <b>Any comments, please, on the weatherproofing of the electronics?</b> ... the XH18, VLCD5, "left hand operation switches"? ... THANKS IN ADVANCE! ... If none of this is weather proof, I'll have to come up with my own solution, but if some is and not others, now would be a good time to know!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by squee22 » Jun 04 2017 5:49am

I would bet the TSDZ3 has most of the same guts as the TSDZ2 but is a custom housing for a specific bike a manufacturer approached them about... I doubt this part is for the general public. More it is for a bike manufacturer that wants to do electric bikes that look a bit more "stock" - and less "hackie"

me.... I like "hackie" :)

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by squee22 » Jun 04 2017 5:52am

RTIII wrote:The current images posted on the official Tongsheng web site show the TSDZ2 with brake handles and "left hand operation switches", and these confuse me.

Here's a link to what I'm talking about:
http://www.tsbicycle.net/products_detai ... d=136.html

I was under the impression brake cut-out switches are unnecessary and not provided?!

Can someone explain, please, what are these "left-hand switches" all about? I thought the VLCD5 that comes with the kit had all the functions? You need both?

Also, I'm about to order one of these and the vendor has it pictured with the XH18 controller / display and NOT the VLCD5. But, given my handle bars being the traditional 10-speed (curl down and the outer ends are pointed rearward), I figured that would be bad because it's 90 degrees opposed to the rider. Yes, I could change handle-bars, but... ... So, I asked and the vendor wants - if I understand them correctly - $50 more for supplying the kit with the VLCD5 instead. I think that's crazy! But another thought came to me; while it's dry here most of the time, what about weather-proofing? <b>Any comments, please, on the weatherproofing of the electronics?</b> ... the XH18, VLCD5, "left hand operation switches"? ... THANKS IN ADVANCE! ... If none of this is weather proof, I'll have to come up with my own solution, but if some is and not others, now would be a good time to know!

My unit has rubber bushings and gaskets, as well as potting on the controller. I am not worried about weather.
Probably a good idea to take it apart though and put in some new grease - also helps with the weather proofing to shed water, and keep the seals tight.

I am worried about weather wrt the battery I got though... that thing isn't at all water proof. Will have to put a bag over it if it rains.

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Norton   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Norton » Jun 04 2017 10:48am

So I should look at putting a small bead of silicone along the seams in this motor/gearbox ?

Is anyone here sporting the 500 Watt version? Thoughts?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jun 04 2017 12:31pm

Thanks for all the replies, everybody. I'm very glad to hear I don't have to worry about using this system in rain.

I'm taking advantage of the fact that this one company has two marketing outlets for the TSDZ2, and one has a better price on a kit with the XH18 (which I don't want due to handle-bar style), while the other has a higher price for a kit with the VLCD5. So, they agreed to sell me the kit with the VLCD5 at the lower price of $290.

Here are the two kits, both 48V, 500W:

http://auto-ebike.com/index.php?main_pa ... ts_id=1780

http://bms-battery.com/home/21-tongshen ... 37476.html

I'm also ordering this battery:

http://auto-ebike.com/index.php?main_pa ... ts_id=1738

So, $290 + $185 = $475 USD, + shipping. They also have an online-purchase discount of $15, and I'm expecting (from reading other people's reported experience buying from this site) that the battery will be $70 to ship and kit $60, making a total cost of $590

I'm thinking of adding the throttle - the vendor only wants to sell it with the hand-brake handles with cut-out switches - and I'm less thrilled about those switches! They want $40 for that - not crazy - but they want to delay the shipping by 8 days because it's not in stock! (I don't think I'm going to wait.)... My use for the throttle would be emergency circumstance (if I get a minor injury or am too tired to pedal, etc). Any comments on that? I can run either / or both at the same time (PAS and throttle), right?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Hickory » Jun 04 2017 12:37pm

HI RTIII- I got the same motor from auto-ebike about 1 month ago. Regarding the chainwheel- I just have the one that came attached to motor, and it seems just fine. Give it a try before you add a second one. I didn't go for the throttle.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jun 04 2017 2:07pm

Hickory wrote:HI RTIII- I got the same motor from auto-ebike about 1 month ago. Regarding the chainwheel- I just have the one that came attached to motor, and it seems just fine. Give it a try before you add a second one. I didn't go for the throttle.
Thanks for the thoughts, Hickory.

...I like my bikes gears now and KNOW I won't be happy without the 52T chainwheel. It's got a 40 as the second chainwheel on it now and the one that comes with the kit is 42T, so it will be somewhat taller but not nearly enough, I feel sure, since the bike is just SO SLOW with on the 40 - great for hills, bad for the flats.

My existing setup is:

Wheels / tires: 27" X 1.24" (32-630)
Front gear, fixed to crankset: 52T
Attached to other gear: 40T

Cassette:
14
17
20
24
28

...I'm VERY happy with the existing gearing and I probably won't mind - or even notice much - the change from 40 to 42T, but the loss of 52T is NOT OK! ... TO help me figure this out, I have created a spreadsheet to calculate it all out. Here are my results:

Speed Table, in MPH, Target Pedal RPM: 90
1 2 3 4 5
52T 13.4 15.7 18.8 22.1 26.9
40T 10.3 12.0 14.5 17.0 20.7
42T 10.8 12.7 15.2 17.9 21.7

As you can see, the 40T and the 42T are nearly identical but with the loss of the 52T, I'll lose 6 MPH on the top end - and that's a LOT! I think I MUST add a new, taller gearring to the front. Looking at the gap between the top of 42T and bottom range of 52T, if I'm going with a new gear, a slightly taller one might do well - spread the range out more. Or, another choice would be to change the cassette...

But, I've never changed out the front gear that's fixed to the crankset.... Advice much appreciated!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jun 04 2017 2:08pm

Hickory wrote:HI RTIII- I got the same motor from auto-ebike about 1 month ago. Regarding the chainwheel- I just have the one that came attached to motor, and it seems just fine. Give it a try before you add a second one. I didn't go for the throttle.
...I meant to ask, Hickory; How much was shipping, and how long did it really take?

Thanks in advance! :D

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Norton » Jun 04 2017 9:21pm

RTIII wrote:....So, $290 + $185 = $475 USD, + shipping. They also have an online-purchase discount of $15, and I'm expecting (from reading other people's reported experience buying from this site) that the battery will be $70 to ship and kit $60, making a total cost of $590
... My use for the throttle would be emergency circumstance (if I get a minor injury or am too tired to pedal, etc). Any comments on that? I can run either / or both at the same time (PAS and throttle), right?
Right! And I promise to only use the throttle like that also... :roll:

You found some great prices to get the system!
I looked at sites like this and ebay. Are you concerned about statements like this?: International items may be subject to customs processing and additional charges.

I am paying so much more... I'm getting a 17.5Ah pack and the confidence of buying through amazon, but still...
Keep us informed about how this works for you and I'll do the same!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by atomohodez » Jun 04 2017 10:07pm

http://m.cafe.naver.com/ImageView.nhn?i ... pe%3Dw1280

Good afternoon! I found on the Internet a new version 2017 of 500w, weight 3.9kg, with two front stars, display xh18 and thumb throttle , I wonder where and how can I buy it? Does anyone know something about him?

https://youtu.be/BtS4Krd_Zt8

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jun 04 2017 10:39pm

Norton wrote: Right! And I promise to only use the throttle like that also... :roll:

You found some great prices to get the system!
I looked at sites like this and ebay. Are you concerned about statements like this?: International items may be subject to customs processing and additional charges.

I am paying so much more... I'm getting a 17.5Ah pack and the confidence of buying through amazon, but still...
Keep us informed about how this works for you and I'll do the same!
Thanks, Norton,

I'm not too worried about that that particular vendor because other people have posted here in this thread having said they bought from this same company. Otherwise, I would be more cautious. The one big risk in my particular purchase, I think, is that maybe the battery is a fake copy of the name-brand unit I am supposed to be buying in which case it might be hard to know - until it fails prematurely. Otherwise, I'm paying by credit card and have that level of protection, against outright fraud.

As for the hand throttle, I'm skipping it for now - can't (dont' want to) wait the 8 days they said it would delay my order!

BTW, I received an email from them WHILE I was writing this reply! :D

They said they can't help me with my chainring problem. And that WILL be a problem. (See this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88711&p=1293873#p1293873
)
...I'm losing my 52T in this and need to replace it!... I need to find out the mounting size for extra chainrings on this unit!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by atomohodez » Jun 05 2017 3:27am

I found a shop, I wonder who will buy this motor for $ 780?

http://m.gbikeshop.co.kr/goods/goods_vi ... 1000000118

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Jun 05 2017 5:09am

Guys the chain ring is a standard 110pcm 5 hole chain ring you can buy from many sources. Sram and Shimano both made cranks to this specification. If you can find a narrow wide ring then you are really in business.

You can even fit two rings side by side by removing the factory chain guard ring, but the outer rings line may well mean you wouldn't be able to use the very low rear sprockets but I don't really see that as a worry.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Jun 05 2017 7:25am

Had the motor for a few weeks now and really loving it for e-mountain bike riding. Using the standard 42t on front fitted with derailleur to stop chain falling off and 12-36t 9 speed rear but even on steep climbs haven't needed to use the 36t yet. Only using level 2 assist for most of my off-road riding until I hit some big hills. Working hard, sweating it out but able to maintain some good speeds on the trails And great control for the technical sections.
Can't really recommend it for commuting, I find I'm always on level 4 and just working hard near the end of the battery as voltage drops off, still prefer my direct drive so that I don't arrive all sweaty at work.

Anyway here is some action from the other day. Two of us using the tsdz2 and the other (black Merida) using the bbs hd. Our 380watthr batteries outlasted the much larger battery on the HD ;) so far so good, can't recommend this motor enough for off-road.
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For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Norton » Jun 05 2017 11:39am

jbalat wrote:... Using the standard 42t on front fitted with derailleur to stop chain falling off and 12-36t 9 speed rear but even on steep climbs haven't needed to use the 36t yet. ....
Can't really recommend it for commuting, I find I'm always on level 4 and just working hard near the end of the battery as voltage drops off,.....
... so far so good, can't recommend this motor enough for off-road...
jb,
Thanks for all the good words and posting the video! It so cool hearing the motor on the TSDZ2 ramp up and down with power!!
Seems like for the commuting part the answer would be a: A bigger battery and a throttle!
Are you riding the 500W version?

I probably spent too much ordering through an amazon seller, but I'm getting a 840Wh battery pack!
We shall see, right? :roll:

I plan on putting connectors on this power monitor and using it occasionally to test the battery to see how it performs:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1
I'm changing all the connectors to XT90-S and I'll add long wires on this Whr meter. I can velcro it to the top tube when I plug it inline.


Here's another issue about ordering from small, far away vendors: https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/12/0 ... -shipping/
I hope going thru amazon will make for safe shipping. And easy returns if anything is not right.

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