New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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jeanl   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeanl » Feb 07 2018 4:54pm

James Broadhurst wrote:
Feb 07 2018 4:40pm
jeanl wrote:
Feb 04 2018 7:18pm
Have you guys had any experience with the new style speed sensor? I bought a 48V 750W TSDZ2 and it came with a new style of speed sensor that has a Y connection (to plug a rear light I believe).
It does not have an adjustment for bringing the sensor close to the magnet. The best I could do (see image) was about 1cm of distance between the two.
These new speed sensors are very sensitive. Set them up at the old style 5mm distance and there is so much noise that it registers a speed up to its absolute maximum of 100 kmph.

I just came across this quite recently; I’ve set up several with the new sensor without even thinking about the distance. This last one was set with well over 10mm separation.

I think you’ll be fine.
I'm fine indeed. 1.0cm works quite well. I haven't tried any further, but I suppose the reason they're no adjustable like the old ones is because they're quite sensitive and don't need to be close to the magnet...
Last edited by jeanl on Feb 08 2018 11:17am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by James Broadhurst » Feb 07 2018 5:08pm

mentat wrote:
Feb 06 2018 4:32pm
So anybody knows the max current of the 6V lamp output?
I’ve one motor that produces, in total, 0.8amps (all @ 6.3v) and another 2, only 0.5amps.
I use a Basta dynamo light as a sidelight and they are excellent and well made lights with halogen bulbs.

Sorry, I meant to add that the maximum instantaneous current in each case was 1.0 and 0.8amps respectively. Exceeding the maximum caused the output to shut down, sometimes the whole system.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by pawepie » Feb 07 2018 7:19pm

Nice thread! It's been really helpful for me to make a decision about what I would like for my first mid-drive.

I've placed an order on with PSWpower, and ordered a 36W350W motor (with throttle/brakes) kit, a metal gear, chainring adapter (106 BCD), and...a 48V750W controller(with throttle/brakes).

I just received an email after confirming my order saying:

"Note: a 48v750W controller with throttle function can't fit your motor do you need we send you 36V controller?"

I was hoping to use it for a bit with my 36v battery, and then swap the controller to be able to overdrive the RPM at 4000x1.33= 5320 RPM

It looks like @elem and @bjorsa have done this successfully (I've watched video!), so I'm curious if this is in fact the case (physical size should be the same). I pointed it out to the rep that this has been done before, but curious if anyone knows if this might in fact be the case (is there a size difference between the 36v, 48v and different amps and/or throttle/brake function addition?) for the TSDZ2?

Secondly, I'm wondering if anyone knows of a safe temperature range or has put in a temperature monitor to the motor (like some have done for the BBS02). I will post with updates! Appreciate the shared conversation :)

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by pawepie » Feb 07 2018 7:40pm

Noticed that auto-ebike apparently sells three versions of the 36v motor: 250W, 350W and 500W. Curious what the difference is between these - I messaged them an inquiry. I'm guessing the difference is only in the rating of the controller (different max amps). Does anyone have any more data for any of these motors/controllers?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Feb 08 2018 5:48pm

Would love to try a 500w controller on my 36v !! Can you buy them yet ?
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=150

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Feb 09 2018 4:06pm

Hi Gang,

This is my first post in this thread of the new year, I think! I spent most of January with a bad back, but cycling once more and I've got a new problem... But first, I had to catch up in the thread, and along the way I found some great contributions here (!!) - and this is one of the key reasons I bought a TSDZ2, was because this thread exists! I'm in particular appreciative of Speady's image and directions for disassembly of the crankset. And, for the links to new CSK30P bearings - from Speady and also Buk - thanks! :D

Meanwhile, I noticed Grisha's post that included these quotes:
extrasilver wrote:
Jul 27 2017 5:17am
extrasilver wrote:i will be ordering a 52 & 48t on friday
[I THINK THIS WAS ME WHO SAID:] There's not a lot of difference there. I'm running both the stock 42T and 52T and, given my rear gears, I hardly need the two. Even with the steepest hills I've had to do so far, the 52T with 28T has been low enough, and 52T with 13T (it won't stay in the 11 - going to try and change the chain out today) gets me up to over 25MPH....
as im running a single speed bike every tooth counts! right now with the stock 16/42t gearing the acceleration and hill climbing is really good but im aiming for a higher top speed and for the gearing to have longer legs.. right now it takes about 2-3 seconds to hit 35kph then myself and the motor hit our max cadence ( without looking like a wolly anway )

just to give a rough idea, if you use your bike with the gearing set to 16 & 52t how does it perform from 0 > top speed and what is the top speed you can reach? i understand there are a few a variables to play here but just so i have a very rough idea
I appreciate Grisha's remarks because I don't know much about single-speed frames / setups. But certainly, the dished chainring is very helpful, on any TSDZ2 equipped bike. And, Grisha's right about the lack of dished chainrings AND that the vendors cited are selling flats - if anyone finds a source for dished ones, please tell us! I DO NOTE, however, that we can now get different spiders that can accommodate different BCD specifications, so maybe with one of these other sizes there are dished chainrings out there? IDK, but if anyone does, I think this community would like to know about it.

And now, on to what I came here to ask about; two things, a noise and a request for more info on upping the cadence.

...As a brief refresher, I have two TSDZ2 setups, "48V 15A 500W", and "48V 18A 750W". The second of the two, the 750, started out noisy, but after about, oh, 40 to 50 miles in it became a LOT quieter and is now essentially silent . . . excepting for a new noise that started about, oh, 7 miles back or so. It's a thunking noise and it comes with a feel in the pedal (heck, the whole bike vibrates some), and it's only there when power is being applied. I don't recall if I've tried just pedalling with the system off. Hmmm. Anyway, it's a brief event once or twice per pedal revolution, thunk -pause- thunk - pause, etc.

I'm guessing the thunking is caused by a problem with the infamous blue gear? If so, it's puzzling because I have taken so good care of that gear! I never start out in assist mode higher than eco, and only bump up the power as speed increases, never in fast or turbo below 10 MPH, never ever! Further, I tend not to launch with a lot of torque, either. ... Could someone confirm, please: It's the blue gear, right?

And, as for the cadence thing: Like many of you, I'm not happy with the current cadence limit cut-out of about 90. I am not excited about going to 52V since I have a bit of investment in 48V, so I had read with curiosity that someone was going to try the 36v motor at 48v to bump the cadence. Should work! ... I was thinking I'd maybe get the highest Amp rated 36v motor and try installing it and see what happens. And here I mean literally get JUST the motor, and swap it out with one of my existing 48v motors, leaving everything else alone. Before I bother, does anyone have any comments about this?

Thanks folks!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » Feb 09 2018 8:44pm

When I put the dished 42t ring on mine I just used the stock spider and drilled new holes to match the smaller mounting bolt pattern in to the chainring. However upon assembly you will find that you need to space the new chainring away from the reduction gear cover, enough to also clear the plastic cover below it too, and I used some nylon bushings I got at the hardware store. Figured I would need to source some alloy ones but surprisingly these are doing just fine. Only thing was during assembly I had to take care of tightening the bolts such that it didn't warp the chainring. But with a little care I got it to run true and other than tightening them once more after the first ride with them I haven't touched them since other than to check and make sure the bolts are staying snug. I used blue loc-tite on the bolts btw. A bit hard to see the bushings in the pic but quite obvious how much better the chainline is. In fact it couldn't be any better as you would rub on the plastic guard, which mine still does once in awhile but not to the point of trying to make it any better than it is. I use the lower gears a lot climbing and doing tech single track and never lose the chain or feel like it is under any strain.
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I had the thunk after my third ride. Once again no undue strain and good riding practice. Swapped out to the brass gear and it went away and never came back. The only thing I could see wrong with the blue gear was that one of the "vanes" was a little chewed on top. Now I don't worry about it.

I am not sure why people want a higher cadence but I only use mine mostly for single track but do some road to get there and although it isn't as fast as my hub motor road bike it gets to the trailhead just fine. I did a group ride with some roadies last weekend, 21 miles on a 45lb steel mtb with 15psi in the tires, and had no problem hanging with the peloton or even zooming past it at one point when I needed a comfort stop. The only thing I noted was that in order to maintain the 20ish mph pace of the ride, I did it just fine in eco (I have the 52v), but unlike my throttle/cruise control road bikes you can't vary your cadence without messing with your speed. Whereas on my road bikes I can set my cruise control at whatever speed and pedal away at whatever cadence I find comfortable, vary it as much as I want by gearing up and spinning less or vice/versa yet maintain the speed I desire.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Feb 10 2018 3:57pm

jeanl wrote:
Feb 05 2018 12:45am
AWD wrote:
Feb 05 2018 12:20am
That doesn't look close enough to me, at least for how I run mine, as close to touching as I'm comfortable with seems to give the best performance. I would suggest putting a shim under the sensor to get it closer, no reason it won't stay there if you use the right shim stock.
Do you also have the new style sensor that does not have the adjustment?
Buy some high quality neodymium magnets and stack a few. Works great!

Much cheaper form China but it's a two week holiday. He's a USA source.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/25PCS-10mm-X-2 ... SwbdpWWjpv
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Feb 10 2018 3:59pm

In my experience no mid drive lasts long using it as a single speed.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Chalo » Feb 10 2018 4:24pm

tomjasz wrote:
Feb 10 2018 3:59pm
In my experience no mid drive lasts long using it as a single speed.
You mean the chain drive components? Or something else?
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Feb 10 2018 11:07pm

Chalo wrote:
Feb 10 2018 4:24pm
tomjasz wrote:
Feb 10 2018 3:59pm
In my experience no mid drive lasts long using it as a single speed.
You mean the chain drive components? Or something else?
Motor, clutch, or any number of failures.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by 905tim » Feb 11 2018 7:17pm

As my first posting I want to share my experiences with a 48V/500W motor bought from Biktrix inJuly '17. The motor was installed on a 70's
steel framed road bike with a 9 speed derailleur and 11/34 cassette. A 48V/11.6Ah shark pack was down-tube mounted and I was pleasantly surprised by the performance, particularly the really intuitive torque sensing. The bike was already fitted with a wireless computer (VDO A8+) and I could not get the supplied speed sensor to function, nor would the VDO computer work. I returned the sensor as being defective, and then found that the computer would work if the VLCD5 display was turned off. Perhaps someone can explain this. However I pressed on without the speed sensor and fitted a wired computer. At about 900km the one way clutch started slipping - a bit disconcerting since I was 10km away from and 450 ft below home base. I managed to get home (very carefully) and returned the motor to the supplier who fitted a new main gear and bearing. At the same time I had the controller programmed to handle the 58.8V of a fully charged 52V battery. This was to enable the use of very small 7Ah battery in an under saddle pack. I have also gone with the very small VLCD6 display. Wiring is so simple! I also replaced the right hand crank with a zero offset Bafang crank,which helps reduce the really bad q factor. So far, testing has been limited to the trainer in the basement, winter in Canada being somewhat bike unfriendly.
In terms of range, I could get 110-130 km on a fully charged (11.6Ah) battery using assist levels 1(mainly) and 2 on hills, and averaging about 25km/hr. Noise is not a problem, but that may be because of my 80 yr old ears!
I wish that I felt more confident in the unit, but that is probably due to my bad luck. I will persist with it, and I am still convinced that the mid drive is the way to go. It would be nice to have a throttle if only for back-up. You're lost without that clutch bearing.
In all this, Biktrix have been very supportive, and I believe that it was worth the extra cost of going with a "local" supplier.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeanl » Feb 11 2018 8:01pm

Well, I installed the 48V 750W TSDZ2 (which I bought from http://recycles-ebike.com) with Throttle, light cables etc. Installation went fine on a Townie, and the bike ran very well for 60 miles. Sadly, yesterday, the torque sensor started not working well, and now the bike is nearly unusable, 2 weeks after installation :evil:
Here's what's happening: I start the unit not touching the pedals at all. Then I start going and either I don't get any assist even when I pedal, or I get full 100% assist barely touching the pedals. It's like this thing has completely lost any proportionality to how much force you apply to the pedals.
When the bike is stopped, I can spin the pedals backward and get a jolt of power here and there (better apply the brake for that like experiment).
I'm going to return the motor if I can, I haven't contacted recycles-ebike yet). I was hoping all the problems reported in this forum were due to growing pains, and early designs, but apparently, even the later models are not reliable.
It's really too bad because when it was working, it was working quite well, assist was nicely proportional, and riding was very pleasant.
Jean

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Creep » Feb 12 2018 12:36am

So, I (perhaps foolishly) had a local Ebike guy install a TSDZ2, as I'm a bit of a noob, I have a question for the forum gurus. How much side-to-side tilt is acceptable? My thought is none, and mine has more than that. Let me elaborate.

After maybe 30 miles, I've noticed that the motor/cranks seem to be well mated to one another, but the entire motor/crank assembly tilts left to right (if viewed from directly behind the bike), enough that I'm hesitant to ride it. The motor seems to function well, I'm just concerned that it's not tight enough in the bottom bracket, and since I'm using it to commute, I'd rather not ruin either the bike or the motor. I can't imagine that tilting under load is good for anything, but this is my first experience with this motor, so I thought I should ask knowledgeable folks that don't have a financial connection to my bike.

It's only a couple of miles down to the guy's shop, and he's not usually too busy, so I'll probably take it in tomorrow to see what he says. I'm assuming/hoping it's just the lockring that needs to be tightened, and that it'll be a quick fix, am I hoping for too much?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » Feb 12 2018 1:00am

" I also replaced the right hand crank with a zero offset Bafang crank,which helps reduce the really bad q factor."

I also did this to reduce Q factor plus I fit one to the non drive side also which was a bit tight and took a little grinding on the backend of the top of the crank for clearance but I feel now it is as narrow as it can be. Along with optimizing the chainline by getting the ring as close to the motor as possible I think these two things should be done at the factory level and will work to see that happen.

I am about to tear mine down and inspect it here this week just to see how it is holding up after 500 miles of not easy on it type of riding. My supplier has a new grease concoction for the gears also that I want to apply. As with anything motorized I find preventive maintenance to be a key to success and the TS is a nice simple design that allows for easy access for repair with replaceable components. The Bafafang's also are set up like this, I just prefer the TS design and torque sensing PAS.

There is another motor due in soon that has the same characteristics of the TSDZ2 but in a frame specific unit. That being the case it allows for the reduction gearing to be inboard so the Q factor is even better. I expect it to be no more than on my analog bikes. Not that they get ridden all that much anymore :)

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ruthra » Feb 13 2018 11:30am

My first post (I think?):

I've been reading about the TSDZ2 for more than a year here, and bought one last summer (48v/500W), to install on my spouse's bike, so she can ride the very hilly terrain around where we live. She loved it, but for other reasons wasn't able to ride it a lot. This winter I installed it on an old mountain bike, running slicks, and really like this system. I'm going to keep it on my bike, and order another. No problems, yet, with blue gear, but I'm going to order two brass gears anyway. My question: I'm using mine on a shopping and cargo bike, which often carries 30-40 lbs, plus my 200. The motor seems plenty powerful for me, even on the 15% or more grades near us. My spouse is only about 160-170, including bike weight/motor, and won't ride the bike heavily loaded. She also doesn't want to ride fast, and accelerate quickly -- just likes the assist. Any reason to buy the 36V motor instead, for her? Any advantages, besides longer battery life? Second: I'm using a 11.5 ah battery from Luna. I wouldn't mind being able to buy a smaller/lighter unit for shorter rides, but don't see those options on PSP power or Luna -- something like a 3 lb. battery. I prefer the frame-mounted batteries -- lighter batteries sold which fit on Shark mount on downtube?

thanks for any help!

AS

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Marin » Feb 13 2018 1:04pm

Creep wrote:
Feb 12 2018 12:36am
So, I (perhaps foolishly) had a local Ebike guy install a TSDZ2, as I'm a bit of a noob, I have a question for the forum gurus. How much side-to-side tilt is acceptable? My thought is none, and mine has more than that. Let me elaborate.

After maybe 30 miles, I've noticed that the motor/cranks seem to be well mated to one another, but the entire motor/crank assembly tilts left to right (if viewed from directly behind the bike), enough that I'm hesitant to ride it. The motor seems to function well, I'm just concerned that it's not tight enough in the bottom bracket, and since I'm using it to commute, I'd rather not ruin either the bike or the motor. I can't imagine that tilting under load is good for anything, but this is my first experience with this motor, so I thought I should ask knowledgeable folks that don't have a financial connection to my bike.

It's only a couple of miles down to the guy's shop, and he's not usually too busy, so I'll probably take it in tomorrow to see what he says. I'm assuming/hoping it's just the lockring that needs to be tightened, and that it'll be a quick fix, am I hoping for too much?
Often things need to be retightened after a ride or two, do it before it gets worse.
Marin ex-rental hybrid with 48v bionx...sold
Specialized hardrock with magic pie 4-5
Lunacycle with l/r mid drive coming soon
Kona Caldera with QS 30H (maybe), and phase runner
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Wildfire fat bike bbshd

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Feb 13 2018 1:42pm

ruthra wrote:
Feb 13 2018 11:30am
My first post (I think?):

I've been reading about the TSDZ2 for more than a year here, and bought one last summer (48v/500W), to install on my spouse's bike, so she can ride the very hilly terrain around where we live. She loved it, but for other reasons wasn't able to ride it a lot. This winter I installed it on an old mountain bike, running slicks, and really like this system. I'm going to keep it on my bike, and order another. No problems, yet, with blue gear, but I'm going to order two brass gears anyway. My question: I'm using mine on a shopping and cargo bike, which often carries 30-40 lbs, plus my 200. The motor seems plenty powerful for me, even on the 15% or more grades near us. My spouse is only about 160-170, including bike weight/motor, and won't ride the bike heavily loaded. She also doesn't want to ride fast, and accelerate quickly -- just likes the assist. Any reason to buy the 36V motor instead, for her? Any advantages, besides longer battery life? Second: I'm using a 11.5 ah battery from Luna. I wouldn't mind being able to buy a smaller/lighter unit for shorter rides, but don't see those options on PSP power or Luna -- something like a 3 lb. battery. I prefer the frame-mounted batteries -- lighter batteries sold which fit on Shark mount on downtube?

thanks for any help!

AS
It's never a mistake in e-bikes to either buy more power than you think you need (unless there are laws, as in some countries in Europe), or buy "more battery" than you think you need. Batteries degrade with time - a larger battery will likely still meet your minimal needs in a few years as it degrades, whereas a battery that's just enough now will need replacement. And, voltage is vital. The more voltage, the more torque AND the more efficient.

Good luck.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » Feb 13 2018 9:19pm

Creep wrote:
Feb 12 2018 12:36am
So, I (perhaps foolishly) had a local Ebike guy install a TSDZ2, as I'm a bit of a noob, I have a question for the forum gurus. How much side-to-side tilt is acceptable? My thought is none, and mine has more than that. Let me elaborate.

After maybe 30 miles, I've noticed that the motor/cranks seem to be well mated to one another, but the entire motor/crank assembly tilts left to right (if viewed from directly behind the bike), enough that I'm hesitant to ride it. The motor seems to function well, I'm just concerned that it's not tight enough in the bottom bracket, and since I'm using it to commute, I'd rather not ruin either the bike or the motor. I can't imagine that tilting under load is good for anything, but this is my first experience with this motor, so I thought I should ask knowledgeable folks that don't have a financial connection to my bike.

It's only a couple of miles down to the guy's shop, and he's not usually too busy, so I'll probably take it in tomorrow to see what he says. I'm assuming/hoping it's just the lockring that needs to be tightened, and that it'll be a quick fix, am I hoping for too much?
Sounds like you are missing the two tab black plate that mounts behind the lock nut. It attaches with a bolt and some shim washer(s) to the motor and keeps it from tilting as you describe. On mine I only could get one of the bolts in place but that is enough as it has never moved.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Feb 14 2018 12:48am

RTIII wrote:
Feb 13 2018 1:42pm
ruthra wrote:
Feb 13 2018 11:30am
My first post (I think?):

-- something like a 3 lb. battery. I prefer the frame-mounted batteries -- lighter batteries sold which fit on Shark mount on downtube?

AS
It's never a mistake in e-bikes to either buy more power than you think you need (unless there are laws, as in some countries in Europe), or buy "more battery" than you think you need. Batteries degrade with time - a larger battery will likely still meet your minimal needs in a few years as it degrades, whereas a battery that's just enough now will need replacement. And, voltage is vital. The more voltage, the more torque AND the more efficient.
I disagree RTIII! :) Although that does seem to be the frequently bantered wisdom. Perhaps you have never packed a 15 lb battery on the short trips that comprise 80% of most riders rides. Clearly the wrong choice. Or torn up a drive train with too powerful of a motor. Even on an e-bike weight is still a big deal. That is one of the ways the TSDZ2 really shines over something like the BBSHD.

I recommend a little more power than you need just for those times when you need it (but don't get crazy) and I recommend if 80-90% of your rides are 10-15 miles or less, a 3 lb. (300-watt hr) battery is perfect. For the other 10-20% of rides take a spare 3lb battery. At least you didn't have to pack it around the rest of the time. I will grant that if you are frequently riding 20-30+ miles then a 500+wh battery is in order. Here is a nice little 3 lb battery that kicks ass: https://www.electrifybike.com/store/p43 ... ttery.html. It is 52v though. Electrify Bike does have 48 and 36v in the same form factor that fits in the same saddlebag. They will sell if you email them.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Feb 14 2018 1:09pm

Rydon wrote:
Feb 14 2018 12:48am
I disagree RTIII! :)
That's fine, but the only thing I "got wrong" was making my statement a little too general. For example, in the context of the TSDZ2, what this thread is all about, there is no such thing as tearing up drive trains. We're talking 750W, max, that I've ever seen. And, you can go too far with anything, "all things in moderation", but I also wasn't wrong about batteries degrading. Size a battery perfectly when new and you'll be unhappy when it's older. That's a fact based on chemistry and experience. Note that I never recommended a 15 lb battery - or a 3lb one either, for that matter.

Also, based on your comments, I gather you haven't much experience with the TSDZ2. For example, I've been on a number of rides of 20+ miles over a mix of steep hilly terrain and flats and figure I can get a theoretical 96 miles or thereabouts out of my 11.73 Ah "48v" pack. I could do such a ride on a lot smaller battery! Yes, my battery may seem like overkill, but then, possibly unlike you and most others, I'm building my bike out with:
  • headlight
  • tail light
  • "running lights" (side lighting)
  • turn signals (two in front, two in rear, plus possible trailer)
  • stop / brake light
  • car horn (when a bell is just not enough!)
  • a trailer hitch wiring harness to provide tail, stop and turn lamps to the trailer
  • inverter for automotive accessories so I can bring gadgets on picnics and so forth
And I want to be sure it all will be working when I get home late, after dark after being out all day and not run out of juice short of home. Oh, and it's always good to NOT run your battery completely flat! I make it a habit to try and never go below 50%, or 80% as a worst-case - they live a lot longer that way! (and keep them charged!)

Another point... The lighter you and your bike are, the larger the fraction any additional weight represents. For me, clocking in at 6' 3" tall, 220 - 230 lbs (depending on time of year), and a bike with lamps, luggage rack, etc, weighing in at, oh, lets call it 35 lbs - no, make it 40 lbs, given clothes, shoes, helmet, etc - and it's around 270, so a 15 lb battery is only 5.5% or so - not a huge cost. If you're 4' 3", say, 75 lbs clothed, and you have an ultra-light bike and motor system at, oh, say, 20 lbs complete, you're at about 95 lbs and so a 15 lb battery would be around 15.8%, three times as much of a big deal. What I'm saying is, your comment about weight being carried around being a problem was also an overly-broad statement! :D

Personally, I don't even notice the weight when I'm hauling groceries home in my bike's baskets, nor do I notice the trailer when I'm using it! And the reason I don't notice is because I've got good gearing and electrification with plenty of power - which gets back to my point about "you can't have too much power (in the TSDZ2 world)." 8)

gggplaya   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Sep 06 2017 12:11pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by gggplaya » Feb 14 2018 2:54pm

RTIII wrote:
Feb 14 2018 1:09pm
Rydon wrote:
Feb 14 2018 12:48am
I disagree RTIII! :)
That's fine, but the only thing I "got wrong" was making my statement a little too general. For example, in the context of the TSDZ2, what this thread is all about, there is no such thing as tearing up drive trains. We're talking 750W, max, that I've ever seen. And, you can go too far with anything, "all things in moderation", but I also wasn't wrong about batteries degrading. Size a battery perfectly when new and you'll be unhappy when it's older. That's a fact based on chemistry and experience. Note that I never recommended a 15 lb battery - or a 3lb one either, for that matter.

Also, based on your comments, I gather you haven't much experience with the TSDZ2. For example, I've been on a number of rides of 20+ miles over a mix of steep hilly terrain and flats and figure I can get a theoretical 96 miles or thereabouts out of my 11.73 Ah "48v" pack. I could do such a ride on a lot smaller battery! Yes, my battery may seem like overkill, but then, possibly unlike you and most others, I'm building my bike out with:
  • headlight
  • tail light
  • "running lights" (side lighting)
  • turn signals (two in front, two in rear, plus possible trailer)
  • stop / brake light
  • car horn (when a bell is just not enough!)
  • a trailer hitch wiring harness to provide tail, stop and turn lamps to the trailer
  • inverter for automotive accessories so I can bring gadgets on picnics and so forth
And I want to be sure it all will be working when I get home late, after dark after being out all day and not run out of juice short of home. Oh, and it's always good to NOT run your battery completely flat! I make it a habit to try and never go below 50%, or 80% as a worst-case - they live a lot longer that way! (and keep them charged!)

Another point... The lighter you and your bike are, the larger the fraction any additional weight represents. For me, clocking in at 6' 3" tall, 220 - 230 lbs (depending on time of year), and a bike with lamps, luggage rack, etc, weighing in at, oh, lets call it 35 lbs - no, make it 40 lbs, given clothes, shoes, helmet, etc - and it's around 270, so a 15 lb battery is only 5.5% or so - not a huge cost. If you're 4' 3", say, 75 lbs clothed, and you have an ultra-light bike and motor system at, oh, say, 20 lbs complete, you're at about 95 lbs and so a 15 lb battery would be around 15.8%, three times as much of a big deal. What I'm saying is, your comment about weight being carried around being a problem was also an overly-broad statement! :D

Personally, I don't even notice the weight when I'm hauling groceries home in my bike's baskets, nor do I notice the trailer when I'm using it! And the reason I don't notice is because I've got good gearing and electrification with plenty of power - which gets back to my point about "you can't have too much power (in the TSDZ2 world)." 8)
Off topic, but I'm glad you put those weight numbers up there, I'll be pulling myself at about 200lbs, my son at about 45lbs, his bike at about 20lbs, and a Followme Tandem coupling at about 20 lbs. Plus my bike of course at about 50lbs all said and done. I was worried the TDSZ wouldn't be able to handle it. Thanks for the reassurance.

Rydon   10 W

10 W
Posts: 76
Joined: Aug 11 2016 5:26pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Feb 14 2018 5:49pm

RTIII wrote:
Feb 14 2018 1:09pm

Also, based on your comments, I gather you haven't much experience with the TSDZ2.
You are right. I have only done about 20 TSDZ2 conversions. Whereas Bafang mid-drives are well over 100.

jeanl   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Jan 24 2018 5:18pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeanl » Feb 14 2018 5:53pm

Rydon wrote:
Feb 14 2018 5:49pm
RTIII wrote:
Feb 14 2018 1:09pm

Also, based on your comments, I gather you haven't much experience with the TSDZ2.
You are right. I have only done about 20 TSDZ2 conversions. Whereas Bafang mid-drives are well over 100.
:lol: :lol:
But seriously: out of these 20, how many did you end up having "premature" trouble with (i.e., something that broke long before you would expect it to)? Asking because my unit lasted all of 5 days (30 miles) before the torque sensor went kaput...

Rydon   10 W

10 W
Posts: 76
Joined: Aug 11 2016 5:26pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Feb 14 2018 6:02pm

jeanl wrote:
Feb 14 2018 5:53pm
... how many did you end up having "premature" trouble with (i.e., something that broke long before you would expect it to)? Asking because my unit lasted all of 5 days (30 miles) before the torque sensor went kaput...
So far only a few issues. I am fairly new to the TSDZ2. I live in a 55+ community so mostly do them for the senior set so I doubt they see a whole lot of action but definitely more than you did. Sorry about the bad luck. I think you got a lemon. :(

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