New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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Kjmac   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kjmac » Apr 16 2018 4:16am

mscoot wrote:
Apr 16 2018 3:35am
Kjmac wrote:
Apr 15 2018 7:24am
Thank you.
Any ideas on fitting on my odd ball bike frame?4BCA5B6E-65B9-4F4D-BA5D-D170F1B7DD36.jpeg
Seems like you need to do a bit of cutting on the motor case to make it fit. I did something similar to make it fit an older Larry vs Harry Bullitt frame (quite a few pages back in this thread), but it looks like you won't need to remove that much material.
Thank you. I'm not sure if it will clear the wheel stay (if that is what its called). The bit of frame from the bottom bracket to the back wheel on the gear side. Its pretty low on this bike. Does the Bullitt dip much or pretty much flat right across?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kjmac » Apr 16 2018 5:10am

I should maybe add that this bike won't take a bafang motor, but will fit a Bewo mid drive motor. But the TSDZ2 would be my ideal choice if it will go on.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mscoot » Apr 16 2018 11:05am

Kjmac wrote:
Apr 16 2018 5:10am
I should maybe add that this bike won't take a bafang motor, but will fit a Bewo mid drive motor. But the TSDZ2 would be my ideal choice if it will go on.
Looks like you might have some trouble with the chainstay. But it seems there is more room in front of the BB so that you might perhaps get it to fit if you rotate the motor a bit forward.

I attached a few photos so you can see how it fits. The right side of the motor casing sits under the right chainstay. Sorry for the dirty bike.

I'd try and make a template from this: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1OJSRPFXX ... XFXXXt.jpg

and see if I could make it fit.
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qwerkus   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by qwerkus » Apr 16 2018 2:35pm

A big thank you to all of those who posted in this tread.

I installed a tsdz2 48V 500W on a raleigh bike (build thread hopefully following) and I must say it works better than expected. Torque sensing is just the way to go if you ask me, since it starts the motor almost immediately after you start pedaling. Every other PAS system requires some initial pedaling, which can be very hard on the knees (at least for me - that's why I build an ebike in the first place).
The second best thing is probably the Xh 18 display. A grip shift switch just feels so much more natural than the usual button pushing, especially when combined with a mechanical grip shifter on the right side. I miss a few options in the menu, but they don't make up for the smoothness of grip-shifting...
The power delivered by the motor is ok for medium climbs. I don't expected to last in the alps though, especially when hauling a 50Kg trailer.

Now the negative part: noise. I read about it here, and if it is really random, I was probably unlucky. My unit makes a strong noise under load, somewhere between a rock grinder and a small lawn mower. Since I got it directly from china (no reliable importer where I live), return is no option, so if you guys figured out where the problem comes from, I'd be glad to try it. On the commuting road when riding next to cars, it certainly does not matter - yet the noise really tends to kills the quiet experience of forest tours. On the plus side: no accident with pedestrians so far!

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John and Cecil   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 16 2018 4:02pm

Ours is pretty quiet. People don't seem to here us coming until we are practically on top of them. Does it make noise without power when pedaling? If warranty is out you don't have much holding you back from taking it apart...

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 16 2018 11:41pm

I am being thinking on how to do the motor control firmware in a way to get the most torque per amp possible, to be the most efficient possible.

I need help from you guys!!
We need to measure the TSDZ2 motor winding resistance and inductance - maybe some of you have a precise multimeter/equipment to do that?? Once some one does it, we can consider that values as a constants for this motors, as I hope TongSheng will not change the motor characteristics over time.

More expensive controllers do FOC and typically have 32 bits microprocessor running at least 50MHz. TSDZ2 has instead a 8 bits running at 16MHz.

Kunteng motor controllers with the same low processing power as TSDZ2, implement "very low resolution FOC" because they has a phase current sensor and they can run many different motors.

I am thinking that TSDZ2 don't has such phase current sensor but instead uses a look up table with pre defined values on how phase current will change with both motor speed and phase current increasing (this depends only of motor inductance and motor resistance). That should be good because this motor controller only has to drive this specific motor, unlike generic EBike motor controllers.
Using this look up table, there will be few math calculations per PWM cycle and that way PWM frequency can be increased to be able to drive this motor at higher RPMs - unlike on Kunteng where PWM frequency is 16kHz and max motor ERPM is 520, so the SVM/Sinewave is draw with the min of 30 different points at motor max speed.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by qwerkus » Apr 17 2018 1:49pm

John and Cecil wrote:
Apr 16 2018 4:02pm
Ours is pretty quiet. People don't seem to here us coming until we are practically on top of them. Does it make noise without power when pedaling? If warranty is out you don't have much holding you back from taking it apart...
Yes, I think there is a small rattling which is always perceptible. The motor is 5 months old, but shipping price to china is nearly the same as a new controller. I wonder if they sent me a model with metal gear. I asked for the strongest version; perhaps they misinterpreted it. Any video out there with the sound of a tsdz2 with metal gear ?

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John and Cecil   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 17 2018 2:11pm

qwerkus wrote:
Apr 17 2018 1:49pm
Yes, I think there is a small rattling which is always perceptible. The motor is 5 months old, but shipping price to china is nearly the same as a new controller. I wonder if they sent me a model with metal gear. I asked for the strongest version; perhaps they misinterpreted it. Any video out there with the sound of a tsdz2 with metal gear ?
Maybe someone that has returned one under warranty can help. I bought one from China too, but I went into this knowing if a problem occurred right away I would do a credit card dispute but after that I was on my own. Once you are certain you wont be going for a warranty repair I would pull at least the gear side apart and see if something is broken in there. I would be concerned that the issue could damage other parts of the motor and be more expensive if let as it is. You might want to lube it up too, maybe they forgot to grease it up at the factory or something.

Did it always make the noise or did it just start happening now? I think if it has a metal gear you would really want to grease those gears up really well as they are going to wear much, much faster with metal on metal.

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 17 2018 2:42pm

I received my motor today and I also officially started the project: Flexible OpenSource firmware for TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor

Please join the thread here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=93818
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Farther   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Farther » Apr 17 2018 6:15pm

Any USA sellers of this motor?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 18 2018 7:37am

The firmware development started the best way possible!!! :-)
casainho wrote:
Apr 18 2018 7:34am
VICTORY!!

The connection for firmware programming and debug are available on the connector for the speed sensor.

Seems that the original firmware is not read protected. I was able to read the option bytes, firmware and finally connect with OpenOCD for a debug session.

Please read my full notes here: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... enOCD.html
Image

Image
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hobbyvac » Apr 18 2018 9:17am

I am very excited to see this work progress.

I still can't believe these motors are so hard to get in the US. I think maybe the Chinese are causing their own distribution problems because they sell them directly at wholesale prices. The people who attempt to sell them here must add another layer of profit for their trouble and then they must provide warranty and customer support.

Its becoming more common to have two options. Buy direct from China, wait a long time and get no documentation warranty or support of any kind from the manufacturer.... or buy from a US representative for 50% more and get quicker but limited access to parts and support. In this case, the US distribution hasn't matured yet and its a scavenger hunt every time you need a parts. The support problem however seems to be taking care of itself with public forums like this.

Unfortunately Forum information has problems too. The good accurate info is often diluted with bad info and opinions, and it eventually evaporates over time as photo links get broken and posts get archived or deleted.

I keep feeling the urge to buy a couple dozen kits and spare parts to feed the market here but doubt enough people will pay US prices when they can buy direct.

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John and Cecil   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 18 2018 9:40am

We ordered ours from PswPower and it did not take very long at all. It took them about a week to ship it out, and then it arrived about 5 days after that. They ship with UPS and DHL. I could not find a USA retailer either.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by gggplaya » Apr 18 2018 9:58am

Biketrix is Canadian
Electrify Bike Co is U.S. but im not sure if they drop ship or stock locally.

Recycles Ebike drop ships, but i think he may have a new website that sells and stocks domestically called Eco cycles. However, he is a U.S. seller that’ll support u after the sale. I used his drop shipping, it was only like 5-6 business days which is not bad.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 18 2018 11:44am

eyebyesickle wrote:
Apr 10 2018 7:15pm
Lately, I saved the controller profiles for every type of motor, and have been comparing them to discover what different values mean. I combine this with what little TongSheng will tell me (they are stingy with info) and I am looking to get everything and anything we can out of this little motor =)
What you mean by "controller profiles"??
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by aja » Apr 18 2018 2:08pm

Farther wrote:
Apr 17 2018 6:15pm
Any USA sellers of this motor?
Highly recommend recycles e-bike or Eco ebike https://www.eco-ebike.com/pages/about-us
I bought from the international site as I'm from the UK but the site above is his US site.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by aja » Apr 18 2018 2:11pm

Farther wrote:
Apr 15 2018 9:43am
What battery connectors come on this motor? Looking at getting the 48v 500 w version and a 48v dolphin pack from Luna. They recommend their XT 90 connectors. Thoughts?
I use standard Anderson connectors for my 52V - no issues thus far. XT ones sound overkill to me, especially the '90' ones!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeanl » Apr 18 2018 4:37pm

aja wrote:
Apr 18 2018 2:08pm
Farther wrote:
Apr 17 2018 6:15pm
Any USA sellers of this motor?
Highly recommend recycles e-bike or Eco ebike https://www.eco-ebike.com/pages/about-us
I bought from the international site as I'm from the UK but the site above is his US site.
I bought from http://recycles-ebike.com/ and got my motor very quickly. Support is provided by David there (known as eyebyesickle on this forum), and he's extremely good and thorough (My torque sensor crapped out after only 60 miles, which apparently is unusual). Fixing it took a long time because of the chinese new year, and waiting for a replacement part to come from China. But other than that service was really good (but I'm still mad that the motor crapped out so early).
Jeanl
Last edited by jeanl on Apr 18 2018 10:41pm, edited 1 time in total.

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Apr 18 2018 6:43pm

casainho wrote:
Apr 18 2018 11:44am
eyebyesickle wrote:
Apr 10 2018 7:15pm
Lately, I saved the controller profiles for every type of motor, and have been comparing them to discover what different values mean. I combine this with what little TongSheng will tell me (they are stingy with info) and I am looking to get everything and anything we can out of this little motor =)
What you mean by "controller profiles"??
I saved the data from every different model of TSDZ2 so I can save/upload/flash whatever motor/controller profile to a new unit before I ship. I also compared all these values to figure out what was what, so I could modify them myself. I had limited success... What you are doing will be much better.. I want in hahahah
www.eco-ebike.com - USA Stock + Support
www.recycles-ebike.com - Manufacturer/Direct w/ USA Support

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Apr 18 2018 6:46pm

Thanks for the support guys! I really appreciate it. I have worked hard on these motors, and by now I have had to fix virtually every part of them and an very familiar. I also have literally all the extra parts in stock now for repair etc!.. I've been testing some new mods/tweaks on my personal TSDZ2 ride also (the folding full suspension, with solid rims/tires) so I'll have some cool stuff to share about that soon too!
www.eco-ebike.com - USA Stock + Support
www.recycles-ebike.com - Manufacturer/Direct w/ USA Support

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » Apr 18 2018 10:31pm

Word on the street, well the aisles of Interbike anyway, is that TongShen is supposed to have a new version out soon. They said last Sept. that they hoped by February. As usual it is delayed but more likely sooner than later? No data on the improvements being made.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeanl » Apr 18 2018 11:36pm

eyebyesickle wrote:
Apr 18 2018 6:46pm
Thanks for the support guys! I really appreciate it. I have worked hard on these motors, and by now I have had to fix virtually every part of them and an very familiar. I also have literally all the extra parts in stock now for repair etc!.. I've been testing some new mods/tweaks on my personal TSDZ2 ride also (the folding full suspension, with solid rims/tires) so I'll have some cool stuff to share about that soon too!
Can't wait to hear!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 19 2018 6:10am

Just a quick note to say that the very first code runs, the traditional “Hello world” that was sent to UART (the cable that goes to LCD):
The sources for the firmware, for the curious, are available here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... r_firmware

Image

On PC I got this readings from the cable that goes to LCD:
Image

I did open the VLCD5 and I shared some photos e tecnhical details, probably the most relevant for users that want to go with an even cleaner installation without LCD:

NOTE: the motor controller can be enabled by simple connect green wire to white wire and this way there is no need to use LCD.

See all my notes here about the VLCD5: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... VLCD5.html
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by qwerkus » Apr 19 2018 2:12pm

Guys, which grease do you use on the TSDZ2 ?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by aja » Apr 19 2018 6:25pm

qwerkus wrote:
Apr 19 2018 2:12pm
Guys, which grease do you use on the TSDZ2 ?
I recall a few people suggesting grease types way back in this thread however in the past I've just used normal bike grease for the internal gear. My original motor is starting to squeak a bit so will check the grease situation...
Last edited by aja on Apr 20 2018 5:14am, edited 1 time in total.

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