New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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flufferty   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by flufferty » Aug 22 2018 11:55am

Hey all, hope this is ok for the thread, considering the expertise in here.. :)

I have just installed a brand new 36v/350w-tsdz2 and have a serious noise/hum coming from the motor. It sounds like a tortured mini-toycar if you ever heard them motors.

Video for sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF99aYNa3WI

Picture of mount:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kk89hbc20jm7z ... 7.jpg?dl=0

The motor casing is only touching the frame at the "back", where I put some rubber to try and dampen any vibrations. Since the picture I folded the rubber twice, but to no difference in noise.

I tightened the little bottom-bracket plate as much I dared and for the bottombracket lockring I even tried a screwdriver/hammer approach to really tighten it.

Is the rubber not enough?
Any point to try and get some universal gasket and cut out to mount on both sides of the motor/bb?

ri53hu   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ri53hu » Aug 22 2018 2:02pm

remove the cover of the pre-rendered mamal with the grease

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gaber   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by gaber » Aug 22 2018 4:16pm

John and Cecil wrote:
Aug 21 2018 9:08am
From my experience I would say 2.5-3 miles per ah on full power, perhaps a bit higher for lighter weights and narrower tires. We are getting about 5 miles on turbo assist (20mph flat, 8mph up hills, light pedaling) from a 52v 2ah battery with 275lbs total weight and 3" wide tires inflated to maximum. Range would go up considerably by reducing assist level.
Anyone else have some situational data on range or ah consumption w/ the 52v 750w motors?
sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 22 2018 5:08pm

gaber wrote:
Aug 22 2018 4:16pm
John and Cecil wrote:
Aug 21 2018 9:08am
From my experience I would say 2.5-3 miles per ah on full power, perhaps a bit higher for lighter weights and narrower tires. We are getting about 5 miles on turbo assist (20mph flat, 8mph up hills, light pedaling) from a 52v 2ah battery with 275lbs total weight and 3" wide tires inflated to maximum. Range would go up considerably by reducing assist level.
Anyone else have some situational data on range or ah consumption w/ the 52v 750w motors?
Here some figures, I hope it can help you:
jbalat wrote:
Aug 22 2018 5:00pm
Dude it's finally working exactly how I want it.
112 cadence and full power all the way to the end with graceful loss of power above 112rpm
550w at level 5 demanded and delivered by the motor at 40km/hr with a low battery and little pressure on the pedals. Awesome efficiency less than 220w at 32km/hr on a dual suspension mtb with nobby tires
And lots more ;)
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

cresny   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by cresny » Aug 22 2018 7:58pm

flufferty wrote:
Aug 22 2018 11:55am
I have just installed a brand new 36v/350w-tsdz2 and have a serious noise/hum coming from the motor. It sounds like a tortured mini-toycar if you ever heard them motors.

Video for sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF99aYNa3WI
I'm no expert, but that does not sound like a frame vibration induced noise, but rather some rotational rubbing in the unit. I wouldn't ride anymore on it before opening it up. From what I understand it's easy to do but I would first contact the seller if possible.

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Aug 22 2018 9:31pm

cresny wrote:
Aug 22 2018 7:58pm
flufferty wrote:
Aug 22 2018 11:55am
I have just installed a brand new 36v/350w-tsdz2 and have a serious noise/hum coming from the motor. It sounds like a tortured mini-toycar if you ever heard them motors.

Video for sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF99aYNa3WI
I'm no expert, but that does not sound like a frame vibration induced noise, but rather some rotational rubbing in the unit. I wouldn't ride anymore on it before opening it up. From what I understand it's easy to do but I would first contact the seller if possible.
Good advice to contact the seller. I have had a few noisy motors like that. Tried greasing them, brass gear, new blue gear, etc., and they still sounded just like that. They seem to work fine. Just make a loud whining sound.

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Aug 22 2018 11:35pm

I just watched your video and it sounds pretty normal to me ?
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150
Opensource TSDZ2 Wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

mauri_78   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mauri_78 » Aug 23 2018 2:28am

Rydon wrote:
Aug 22 2018 9:31pm
cresny wrote:
Aug 22 2018 7:58pm
flufferty wrote:
Aug 22 2018 11:55am
I have just installed a brand new 36v/350w-tsdz2 and have a serious noise/hum coming from the motor. It sounds like a tortured mini-toycar if you ever heard them motors.

Video for sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF99aYNa3WI
I'm no expert, but that does not sound like a frame vibration induced noise, but rather some rotational rubbing in the unit. I wouldn't ride anymore on it before opening it up. From what I understand it's easy to do but I would first contact the seller if possible.
Good advice to contact the seller. I have had a few noisy motors like that. Tried greasing them, brass gear, new blue gear, etc., and they still sounded just like that. They seem to work fine. Just make a loud whining sound.
Hi also my motor makes the the same noise... It was very silent for the first 1000km then it started to make the same noise as yours.
I have open it but all seems to be ok... i havent't understood where is generated the noise, probably inside the brushless motor but i'm not sure. If someone is able to solve this problem please let us know...

emr   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by emr » Aug 23 2018 3:44am

gaber wrote:
Aug 22 2018 4:16pm

Anyone else have some situational data on range or ah consumption w/ the 52v 750w motors?
I have 52v 750w and 14s 52v battery.

I achieved 80km from fully charged to fully empty using original firmware.

flufferty   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by flufferty » Aug 23 2018 4:30am

Rydon wrote:
Aug 22 2018 9:31pm
cresny wrote:
Aug 22 2018 7:58pm
I'm no expert, but that does not sound like a frame vibration induced noise, but rather some rotational rubbing in the unit. I wouldn't ride anymore on it before opening it up. From what I understand it's easy to do but I would first contact the seller if possible.
Good advice to contact the seller. I have had a few noisy motors like that. Tried greasing them, brass gear, new blue gear, etc., and they still sounded just like that. They seem to work fine. Just make a loud whining sound.
I bought it from "pswpower" and asked them by mail also, they answered today that maybe the nylon gear needs replacing.. But since it's a brand new unit that seems like a wild guess to me.

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Aug 23 2018 5:16am

Ask Alice if she will let you pull it apart to check
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150
Opensource TSDZ2 Wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

bart1006   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bart1006 » Aug 23 2018 6:17am

I got my motor to work not exactly sure what was wrong but with the lcd3 instead of the lcd5 it works.
So now i would like to flash my lcd3 and the motor controller. I was following your video's jbalat to start with the lcd3 there you have in part 2 around 0:50 the website where you can see the pin out connections from the stlink to the lcd.

Can you tell me where i can find that page jbalat? I searched all the pages but I think i am missing something.

Thanks

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Aug 23 2018 7:40am

Good to hear about your motor
Looks like Casainho has taken that down. I was going to make a pic but haven’t gotten around to it.
When I do I will ask Casainho to add them to the wiki

Pull the screen apart
From the front you will see the j7 pin near the top right

Connect the 5v+ to J7 then the other pins as per my video.
Pin 2 to swim
Pin 3 to ground
Pin 4 to reset

All the links are in the text in the video.
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150
Opensource TSDZ2 Wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Hillhater » Aug 23 2018 8:03am

emr wrote:
Aug 23 2018 3:44am
gaber wrote:
Aug 22 2018 4:16pm

Anyone else have some situational data on range or ah consumption w/ the 52v 750w motors?
I have 52v 750w and 14s 52v battery.
I achieved 80km from fully charged to fully empty using original firmware.
emr, sorry but 14s, 52v doesnt tell us what the battery capacity is...Ah or Whr is the relavent figure .
FWIW...my 750/48v standard firmware used approx 6ah over a 40km rough trail ride
That was using "Turbo" mode all the time !
I suspect these torque sensing systems are more economical than others methods of controller operation.?
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

EndlessCadence   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by EndlessCadence » Aug 23 2018 8:18am

Yesterday I've quickly mounted (sort of :P ) all the parts to my bike. The good news is that the 36V motor works with the 48V battery, the bad news is that the speed sensor reading is all over the place and often just shows 99.9 km/h. I'm certain that I wasn't flying :D. Should I increase the distance between the sensor and the magnet? Also, the walk assist mode ends after approx. 1 second showing error E02 if I remember correctly. Maybe related to the speed sensor as well? I would like to have a stable stock firmware setup and run before trying the opensource firmware.

bart1006   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bart1006 » Aug 23 2018 8:22am

jbalat wrote:
Aug 23 2018 7:40am
Good to hear about your motor
Looks like Casainho has taken that down. I was going to make a pic but haven’t gotten around to it.
When I do I will ask Casainho to add them to the wiki

Pull the screen apart
From the front you will see the j7 pin near the top right

Connect the 5v+ to J7 then the other pins as per my video.
Pin 2 to swim
Pin 3 to ground
Pin 4 to reset

All the links are in the text in the video.
Thanks jbalat!
Hereby the photo's for wiring to the lcd and the stlink maybe we can use it on the wiki.
IMG_8659.jpeg
IMG_8660.jpeg
IMG_8661.jpeg
IMG_8662.jpeg
IMG_8664.jpeg

bart1006   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bart1006 » Aug 23 2018 8:25am

EndlessCadence wrote:
Aug 23 2018 8:18am
Yesterday I've quickly mounted (sort of :P ) all the parts to my bike. The good news is that the 36V motor works with the 48V battery, the bad news is that the speed sensor reading is all over the place and often just shows 99.9 km/h. I'm certain that I wasn't flying :D. Should I increase the distance between the sensor and the magnet? Also, the walk assist mode ends after approx. 1 second showing error E02 if I remember correctly. Maybe related to the speed sensor as well? I would like to have a stable stock firmware setup and run before trying the opensource firmware.
I had the same! the problem was the speedsensor showing 99.9 km/h in my case the sensor was to close to the reader..
after I changed that it worked perfectly.

EndlessCadence   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by EndlessCadence » Aug 23 2018 8:29am

bart1006 wrote:
Aug 23 2018 8:25am
EndlessCadence wrote:
Aug 23 2018 8:18am
Yesterday I've quickly mounted (sort of :P ) all the parts to my bike. The good news is that the 36V motor works with the 48V battery, the bad news is that the speed sensor reading is all over the place and often just shows 99.9 km/h. I'm certain that I wasn't flying :D. Should I increase the distance between the sensor and the magnet? Also, the walk assist mode ends after approx. 1 second showing error E02 if I remember correctly. Maybe related to the speed sensor as well? I would like to have a stable stock firmware setup and run before trying the opensource firmware.
I had the same! the problem was the speedsensor showing 99.9 km/h in my case the sensor was to close to the reader..
after I changed that it worked perfectly.
Will try that tonight. Thanks fellow Dutchman! :wink:

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 23 2018 9:50am

bart1006 wrote:
Aug 23 2018 8:22am
Hereby the photo's for wiring to the lcd and the stlink maybe we can use it on the wiki.
Thanks! I updated the wiki and used your photos as you suggested. Here:

- https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

- https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... on-KT-LCD3
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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gaber   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by gaber » Aug 23 2018 10:07am

Hillhater wrote:
Aug 23 2018 8:03am
emr wrote:
Aug 23 2018 3:44am
gaber wrote:
Aug 22 2018 4:16pm

Anyone else have some situational data on range or ah consumption w/ the 52v 750w motors?
I have 52v 750w and 14s 52v battery.
I achieved 80km from fully charged to fully empty using original firmware.
emr, sorry but 14s, 52v doesnt tell us what the battery capacity is...Ah or Whr is the relavent figure .
FWIW...my 750/48v standard firmware used approx 6ah over a 40km rough trail ride
That was using "Turbo" mode all the time !
I suspect these torque sensing systems are more economical than others methods of controller operation.?
I was thinking the same thing :P . Thanks for your info! That's exactly what I was looking for. I know range has a lot of variables, but this makes me feel a lot better about going with the super shark over the jumbo shark (at least for battery #1).
sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

flufferty   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by flufferty » Aug 23 2018 1:19pm

jbalat wrote:
Aug 23 2018 5:16am
Ask Alice if she will let you pull it apart to check
So I removed the cover and nylon gear to check, and to me (novice) it looks like there's not that much grease?
See attached pictures.

However, I cleaned it out and re-greased using general purpose lithium grease, and the noise is about the same, but now I could clearly hear the noise coming from the cargo-box in front of me. Lifting the saddle up I could also feel tiny vibrations in the frame when pressing the 6km/h walk mode.

So I assume either my motor is vibrating a lot more then others, or I need to rethink how to stop the vibrations from spreading through the frame..
Attachments
2018-08-23 13.21.38.jpg
2018-08-23 13.21.58.jpg
2018-08-23 13.22.10.jpg

EndlessCadence   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by EndlessCadence » Aug 23 2018 2:35pm

EndlessCadence wrote:
Aug 23 2018 8:29am
bart1006 wrote:
Aug 23 2018 8:25am
EndlessCadence wrote:
Aug 23 2018 8:18am
Yesterday I've quickly mounted (sort of :P ) all the parts to my bike. The good news is that the 36V motor works with the 48V battery, the bad news is that the speed sensor reading is all over the place and often just shows 99.9 km/h. I'm certain that I wasn't flying :D. Should I increase the distance between the sensor and the magnet? Also, the walk assist mode ends after approx. 1 second showing error E02 if I remember correctly. Maybe related to the speed sensor as well? I would like to have a stable stock firmware setup and run before trying the opensource firmware.
I had the same! the problem was the speedsensor showing 99.9 km/h in my case the sensor was to close to the reader..
after I changed that it worked perfectly.
Will try that tonight. Thanks fellow Dutchman! :wink:
Yes, that fixed the 99.9 km/h issue! I still have to verify whether the indicated speed is correct.

I have two issues left (using the original firmware):
  • Walk assist mode doesn't work, the motor is jerking for a second and then the display shows error E02. Anyone experienced this issue before?
  • The first two assist modes work fine, but speed and turbo assist stops working when a demand to much force, pushing the pedals or starting off from low speed and/or low cadence. When the motor stops working I have to wait for a while or power off/on again to get it back to life.

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 23 2018 2:49pm

EndlessCadence wrote:
Aug 23 2018 2:35pm
EndlessCadence wrote:
Aug 23 2018 8:29am
bart1006 wrote:
Aug 23 2018 8:25am
EndlessCadence wrote:
Aug 23 2018 8:18am
Yesterday I've quickly mounted (sort of :P ) all the parts to my bike. The good news is that the 36V motor works with the 48V battery, the bad news is that the speed sensor reading is all over the place and often just shows 99.9 km/h. I'm certain that I wasn't flying :D. Should I increase the distance between the sensor and the magnet? Also, the walk assist mode ends after approx. 1 second showing error E02 if I remember correctly. Maybe related to the speed sensor as well? I would like to have a stable stock firmware setup and run before trying the opensource firmware.
I had the same! the problem was the speedsensor showing 99.9 km/h in my case the sensor was to close to the reader..
after I changed that it worked perfectly.
Will try that tonight. Thanks fellow Dutchman! :wink:
Yes, that fixed the 99.9 km/h issue! I still have to verify whether the indicated speed is correct.

I have two issues left (using the original firmware):
  • Walk assist mode doesn't work, the motor is jerking for a second and then the display shows error E02. Anyone experienced this issue before?
  • The first two assist modes work fine, but speed and turbo assist stops working when a demand to much force, pushing the pedals or starting off from low speed and/or low cadence. When the motor stops working I have to wait for a while or power off/on again to get it back to life.
Maybe you hit the battery low cut off voltage, when you ask more power the battery voltage drops...
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

EndlessCadence   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by EndlessCadence » Aug 23 2018 3:15pm

Thanks! That could be the case, but the display says that the battery is 100% full and the LED indicators on the battery casing indicates that the battery is around 75%? Don't know if those measurements can be trusted... I didn't fully charge the battery yet since I've received it.

bart1006   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bart1006 » Aug 23 2018 3:16pm

EndlessCadence wrote:
Aug 23 2018 2:35pm
I have two issues left (using the original firmware):
  • Walk assist mode doesn't work, the motor is jerking for a second and then the display shows error E02. Anyone experienced this issue before?
  • The first two assist modes work fine, but speed and turbo assist stops working when a demand to much force, pushing the pedals or starting off from low speed and/or low cadence. When the motor stops working I have to wait for a while or power off/on again to get it back to life.

See page 11 of this manual: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fr27O... mRNKkLJ-HU

Error code E02 is hall error or motor short circuit

Schermafbeelding 2018-08-23 om 22.09.56.png
Schermafbeelding 2018-08-23 om 22.09.56.png (79.51 KiB) Viewed 1230 times

Maybe a false hall sensor? This makes sense on lower speed (walk) and higher speed (speed and turbo).
Last edited by bart1006 on Aug 23 2018 3:25pm, edited 3 times in total.

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