New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 28 2018 4:21am

EndlessScream wrote:
Aug 28 2018 1:12am
Is it possible to configure this firmware, so it uses only PAS and no torque sensor? I am asking because my torque sensor stopped working and I do not have a throttle. The motor engages, but it gives me only a little boost on each assist level and it does not increase when I put more pressure on pedals. I am trying to find a way to workaround this problem without replacing torque sensor. It would be sufficient for me if it worked at full power defined for each assist level as other regular motors.
With the our flexible OpenSource firmware it is possible. That mode was not developed because no one ever show that need but it should be a quick change to current version:

1. there is a function with name ebike_control_motor() that runs every 0.1 second, get's information about the sensors (like torque sensor, PAS, brake sensors) and configurations like max current on LCD3, and calculate the final current to apply to the motor.

2. on ebike_control_motor(), the human power on the pedals (torque sensor value * pedals cadence) are calculated and that value will then define the current to apply to the motor. So, if your torque sensor value is always zero, the calculated human power will always be zero. A quick way to use only the pedals cadence is to force torque sensor value = 1 and then the human power will be equal to the pedals cadence :-)

I am very busy on this days, maybe you can ask to others like jbalat to do this implementation for you.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

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EndlessScream   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by EndlessScream » Aug 28 2018 10:46am

Thanks, I did not know there is a second hidden menu, but unfortunately it does not seem to work for me. I have tried several times this procedure:
1. Power on.
2. On ODO press "power" and "info" buttons simultanously and hold for 10 seconds.
3. Cycle through options by pressing info button... but it gives me only access to standard configuration options (wheel diamater, number of magnets etc.)
I guess my firmware does not have this menu with TE and TE1 parameters. It also does not display version number at the end, so maybe it is a very old version.

@casainho Thank you for explanation. I think that maybe I would be able to make this changes in the source code on my own, but first of all I would need to order the LCD3 display. I am just checking for different possibilities right now.

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Aug 28 2018 1:49pm

Maybe try holding them even longer than 10 seconds? Even the older models should be able to access this menu.

EndlessScream   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by EndlessScream » Aug 28 2018 2:26pm

Ok... I have just tried again several times (with stopwatch in hand). I was holding these two buttons for 10, 15 and 30 seconds, but the result is always the same.

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Aug 28 2018 11:43pm

EndlessScream wrote:
Aug 28 2018 2:26pm
Ok... I have just tried again several times (with stopwatch in hand). I was holding these two buttons for 10, 15 and 30 seconds, but the result is always the same.
Oh well time to pull it apart and/or order the ktlcd3
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hobbyvac » Aug 28 2018 11:57pm

People complain that its hit and miss trying to get into the menu, it always takes me several tries. I don't know if its just a precise time window you have to hold them? Most likely it has to do with simultaneous pressing of the buttons. Its hard to press and release them at precisely the same time. I think many people are unaware of this and assume you can press one then the other and hold them both. I think you may need to press them both in unison. So there is a short time window for pressing,.. then another window for holding,.. then a final window for releasing. I think all three events need to happen in a timely manner so it doesn't confuse it for other commands.

When you do get in, I find that you need to sort of rush through the sequence because it times out if you go too slow.

I think whoever programmed it drinks too much coffee :shock:

mauri_78   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mauri_78 » Aug 29 2018 2:47am

Hi all a little calarification regarding the voltage supply of TSDZ2:
I have the 36V 350W version of TSDZ2, can i supply it with a 48V(13S) battery? In order to do this i have to change some bytes in eeprom or use the casainho firmware?

Which are the differences between 36V and 48V versions of TSDZ2? They have the same motor and the same controller with only software differences?
I have seen that casainho has developed two FW versions one for 36V and one for 48V, if the two motors are identical for which reason there are two different versions?
Thanks in advance for clarifications.

best regards

Maurizio

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Aug 29 2018 4:48am

mauri_78 wrote:
Aug 29 2018 2:47am
Hi all a little calarification regarding the voltage supply of TSDZ2:
I have the 36V 350W version of TSDZ2, can i supply it with a 48V(13S) battery? In order to do this i have to change some bytes in eeprom or use the casainho firmware?

Which are the differences between 36V and 48V versions of TSDZ2? They have the same motor and the same controller with only software differences?
I have seen that casainho has developed two FW versions one for 36V and one for 48V, if the two motors are identical for which reason there are two different versions?
Thanks in advance for clarifications.

best regards

Maurizio
The 36v has different motor windings so that’s why you need to change one variable in the firmware which relates to the FOC settings otherwise the motor loses timing at high rpm and doesn’t get the best efficiency.

Some people say you can run 11s without modification otherwise you can run up to 15s by changing the high voltage cutoff and low voltage cutoff settings in the firmware. In some firmware you can simply change the values while with some users it hasn’t made any difference.
The Opensource allows you to change voltages, current and power settings on the fly.

With standard firmware it sounds like you can get extra speed and cadence by increasing voltage. In Opensource it’s not so much an issue, you can get more power and already have high cadence so you don’t need to change the battery.
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casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 29 2018 6:09am

We have a new user of our flexible OpenSource firmware:
wheex wrote:
Aug 29 2018 2:11am
I tried the new opensource firmware the 0.5 version, and it's awesome much more efficient, stronger and the cadence is around 90-95 rpm with a 48V motor and battery, and stock settings. Thanks casainho to made this, with the new firmware it's feel like I have a new motor.
Since all the feedback of the new users seems consistent "more efficient, stronger" "feel like I have a new motor", I think the original firmware does not implement FOC and that is why is worst in terms of efficiency/battery range and motor torque -- I was not expecting this I must say, I always thought the original firmware would implement FOC.
Last edited by casainho on Aug 29 2018 6:10am, edited 2 times in total.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Uturn » Aug 29 2018 6:09am

you can get more power and already have high cadence

could you specify please how much cadence improves with open firmware?
Sry, just read it seems to be up to 90-95 for the 48V motor

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Aug 29 2018 8:05am

Uturn wrote:
Aug 29 2018 6:09am
you can get more power and already have high cadence

could you specify please how much cadence improves with open firmware?
Sry, just read it seems to be up to 90-95 for the 48V motor
With a few small tweaks I got 120 cadence on 42v and 128 on 48v using a 36v motor ;)
So you should be able to get at least 110 I’m guessing
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Opensource TSDZ2 Wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » Aug 29 2018 8:28am

Hey, does anyone remember the bb bearing specs for the TSDZ2, I know they are in this thread somewhere but it is so long now it is hard to find relevant info.....Thanks in advance.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 29 2018 8:32am

AWD wrote:
Aug 29 2018 8:28am
Hey, does anyone remember the bb bearing specs for the TSDZ2, I know they are in this thread somewhere but it is so long now it is hard to find relevant info.....Thanks in advance.
Forums are not so good to keep the information organized/structured, but are easy to write on.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 29 2018 9:50am

I did a release for V0.6. I developed a new feature: now assist levels factor are configured on LCD3. We can also choose how many assist levels:

Code: Select all

3: assist level
 0: number of assist levels: default value: 5. This is the number of available assist levels, max number is 9.
 1: assist level factor: this is the factor (for assist level 1) that is multiplied to the calculated human power that the rider does on the bicycle pedals and will scale the final motor assist level.
 x: assist level factor: factor for assist level x -- same as the previous and repeats for the next assist level.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

20-20   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by 20-20 » Aug 29 2018 12:06pm

Nothing technical to contribute (yet), just dropping in with a vote of thanks for all the time and effort expended by casainho, jbalat and others. I'm sure there are many silent lurkers like myself following this thread with great interest. Keep up the good work. That's all! :wink:

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Aug 29 2018 3:02pm

casainho wrote:
Aug 29 2018 9:50am
I did a release for V0.6. I developed a new feature: now assist levels factor are configured on LCD3. We can also choose how many assist levels:

Code: Select all

3: assist level
 0: number of assist levels: default value: 5. This is the number of available assist levels, max number is 9.
 1: assist level factor: this is the factor (for assist level 1) that is multiplied to the calculated human power that the rider does on the bicycle pedals and will scale the final motor assist level.
 x: assist level factor: factor for assist level x -- same as the previous and repeats for the next assist level.
Very nice! I can't wait to heal up a little and test this out! It seems to be really coming together now

fi7ippo   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by fi7ippo » Aug 29 2018 5:01pm

Hi guys, very nice tread and before of all many thanks to casainho!!
Your work is great! I mount my TSDZ2 48v with 10,4ah battery from pswpower on may, and till 10 days ago was stock...
LCD3 arrived and I flashed version 0.3. Than yesterday I decided to make 2 external flashing connector from lcd and motor, for a better life!!
Done, and arrived version .4 .5 and .6 flashed tonight.
Assist level factor is an incredible improvement, finally we can really adjust the torque sensor!!!
I have one, or two big problem, in my opinion:
the motor always assist, ever if you are on level assist 0 till 6kmh.
Is there a way to deactivate at all the assist on level 0 please?
Also on every assist level, the initial boost whenever you start is very high till 6kmh near uncomfortable for me, LCD says more than 300-400w, is so high and dangerous for internal gears I think, especially if you are in an high gear!
It could be more smart to limit at 100-150w till 6kmh if possible! Or better add a configurable startup power limit..
The only way to workaround this was to set the max power on fly every time... not so user friendly!
Do you have information about the light? Please casainho, take a time to the light if You can, this is the really missing think form stock firmware for me
Another question, does the LCD3 24-36-48v works with 14s 52v battery?
I discovered that the 95-100rpm cadence is the maximum, so with 52v maybe around 110 right?
Thank You guys, and many thanks to casainho

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Aug 29 2018 7:02pm

fi7ippo wrote:
Aug 29 2018 5:01pm
Hi guys, very nice tread and before of all many thanks to casainho!!
Your work is great! I mount my TSDZ2 48v with 10,4ah battery from pswpower on may, and till 10 days ago was stock...
LCD3 arrived and I flashed version 0.3. Than yesterday I decided to make 2 external flashing connector from lcd and motor, for a better life!!
Done, and arrived version .4 .5 and .6 flashed tonight.
Assist level factor is an incredible improvement, finally we can really adjust the torque sensor!!!
I have one, or two big problem, in my opinion:
the motor always assist, ever if you are on level assist 0 till 6kmh.
Is there a way to deactivate at all the assist on level 0 please?
Also on every assist level, the initial boost whenever you start is very high till 6kmh near uncomfortable for me, LCD says more than 300-400w, is so high and dangerous for internal gears I think, especially if you are in an high gear!
It could be more smart to limit at 100-150w till 6kmh if possible! Or better add a configurable startup power limit..
The only way to workaround this was to set the max power on fly every time... not so user friendly!
Do you have information about the light? Please casainho, take a time to the light if You can, this is the really missing think form stock firmware for me
Another question, does the LCD3 24-36-48v works with 14s 52v battery?
I discovered that the 95-100rpm cadence is the maximum, so with 52v maybe around 110 right?
Thank You guys, and many thanks to casainho
filippo, if you have any tech questions issues or requests with the firmware please post in the dev area
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=325

Btw I got 121 cadence this morning on my 36v ;)
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Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=150
Opensource TSDZ2 Wiki https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 30 2018 3:03am

fi7ippo wrote:
Aug 29 2018 5:01pm
Hi guys, very nice tread and before of all many thanks to casainho!!
Your work is great! I mount my TSDZ2 48v with 10,4ah battery from pswpower on may, and till 10 days ago was stock...
LCD3 arrived and I flashed version 0.3. Than yesterday I decided to make 2 external flashing connector from lcd and motor, for a better life!!
Done, and arrived version .4 .5 and .6 flashed tonight.
Assist level factor is an incredible improvement, finally we can really adjust the torque sensor!!!
I have one, or two big problem, in my opinion:
the motor always assist, ever if you are on level assist 0 till 6kmh.
Is there a way to deactivate at all the assist on level 0 please?
So we have a new user!!

Yes, it should not assist when level 0, I will disable it.
fi7ippo wrote:
Aug 29 2018 5:01pm
Also on every assist level, the initial boost whenever you start is very high till 6kmh near uncomfortable for me, LCD says more than 300-400w, is so high and dangerous for internal gears I think, especially if you are in an high gear!
Yes, you are correct. Although I like the "kick", I think you are right. But this are the kind of things that need refine, need testing and more testing until we understand how we want them.
fi7ippo wrote:
Aug 29 2018 5:01pm
Do you have information about the light? Please casainho, take a time to the light if You can, this is the really missing think form stock firmware for me
Another question, does the LCD3 24-36-48v works with 14s 52v battery?
I can't test the lights but I hope today make a release with testing code for lights.

I know that there are LCD3 that works at 72V, they are on the market. Also users are modding: viewtopic.php?t=94070&start=75#p1397766
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kisazul » Aug 30 2018 7:48pm

Hi casainho. I already had time to test the original firmware with a battery of 52 volts. About 500 km. Now I want to try with a new open firmware. I already had an LCD 3 from the old motor. I will use it. But I have a question, how to connect a throttle to LCD 3, which was going for with a set of TSDZ2?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mauri_78 » Aug 31 2018 1:37am

Kisazul wrote:
Aug 30 2018 7:48pm
Hi casainho. I already had time to test the original firmware with a battery of 52 volts. About 500 km. Now I want to try with a new open firmware. I already had an LCD 3 from the old motor. I will use it. But I have a question, how to connect a throttle to LCD 3, which was going for with a set of TSDZ2?
Hi Kisazul, i'll try to response at your question regarding throttle connection. You have to connect the throttle directly to the controller, not to the display. If your motor has 6 pin connector you have to solder two wires on the controller and connect them to the throttle(throttle has three wires 5V, Signal, and GND. GND is already present, you have to connect 5V e signal wire for the throttle)
If you have the tsdz2 version with throttle (8pins connector) the wires are already present at the connector you have only to connect them to the throttle. I'm sorry but i don't have the pinout for 8 pins connector but probably if you search you can find it easily.

Maurizio

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 31 2018 2:38am

mauri_78 wrote:
Aug 31 2018 1:37am
Kisazul wrote:
Aug 30 2018 7:48pm
Hi casainho. I already had time to test the original firmware with a battery of 52 volts. About 500 km. Now I want to try with a new open firmware. I already had an LCD 3 from the old motor. I will use it. But I have a question, how to connect a throttle to LCD 3, which was going for with a set of TSDZ2?
Hi Kisazul, i'll try to response at your question regarding throttle connection. You have to connect the throttle directly to the controller, not to the display. If your motor has 6 pin connector you have to solder two wires on the controller and connect them to the throttle(throttle has three wires 5V, Signal, and GND. GND is already present, you have to connect 5V e signal wire for the throttle)
If you have the tsdz2 version with throttle (8pins connector) the wires are already present at the connector you have only to connect them to the throttle. I'm sorry but i don't have the pinout for 8 pins connector but probably if you search you can find it easily.
That's correct.

Find here how to install including the wires colors, etc: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... e-firmware
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kisazul » Aug 31 2018 8:34am

Thanks guys mauri_78 and casainho, I figured out the connection. Next week I will install a new firmware.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 31 2018 9:58am

I developed and corrected the following features/issues (release V0.7):

1. speed limiter with reducing power with a linear ramp
2. implemented STARTUP POWER BOOST (some configurations on LCD3)
3. motor startup when assist level is 0 now do not happens as expected
4. speed reset to 25km/h do no happens anymore

1. just the same concept as EndlessCadence did. It works when we are driving on the bicycle but works very badly with wheel on the air. That's it for something that took only 30m to develop. Much more time is needed for something good.

2. The description from configuration manual: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... -firmwares

Code: Select all

4: startup power boost: boost the initial motor startup
 0: config: default value: 1. 0 to enable power boost only when startup and bicycle wheel = 0; 1 every time pedal cadence or torque sensor are zero.
 1: boost time: default value = 25 (2.5 seconds). 0 to disable startup power boost feature.
 2: assist level boost power: this is the boost power (for assist level 1) in watts. Note that this value is not limited by the Max battery power screen value, it is although limited by the battery max current value.
 x: assist level boost power: this is the boost power for assist level x -- same as the previous and repeats for the next assist level.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andrea_104kg » Sep 01 2018 3:06pm

Ok, i will try... today i have flashed the lcd3, and it's a success! (v 0.7)
next week i wil try to flash the controller (i have a 36v battery)
the firmware it's the same for 36/48v battery? (only configuration on lcd?)
What's the max factor for "assist level factor" ? It's a percentage?

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