New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 17 2018 11:16pm

jbalat wrote:
Sep 17 2018 6:53pm
Not sure why its not already default in the firmware ...
Because it is less efficient to run the motor like that. Also maybe we should add that as a configuration on LCD3.

But on issue list we have an entry for implementing the field weakening and then we should be able to have both of best worlds, efficiency on regular motor speeds and less after over speed.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

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Bartman   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bartman » Sep 18 2018 11:57am

jbalat wrote:
Sep 17 2018 6:53pm
Bartman wrote:
Sep 17 2018 2:21pm
Has anyone tried the opensource firmware on 36v motor with a 48v battery. My 36v battery casing has just smashed and I've been toying with the idea of getting a 48v battery. If you have tried the above, do you have to be pedalling at max cadence (I assume about 120 rpm) to get full power ? How does it ride with the firmware and 48v battery ?
Also tried with 14s as per my video and it runs just as good. Let me know if you want increased cadence there are only a couple of tweaks.. Not sure why its not already default in the firmware ...
I think 90 will be fine. I've sourced some shrinkwarp and will get the 36v battery going so I can try the new firmware. Once I'm happy all is ok will order a 48v one.

Malloot   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Malloot » Sep 19 2018 2:04am

Hey,

I am looking to build 2 bikes with this motor after seeing the fact that you guys developed a open source firmware for it. This seems like absolutely fantastic work and is a mayor bonus for this product, thanks to all involved!

One of the bikes is for in the Netherlands, for a flat 15km commute, i'd like to bike at about 40kmh and want to work up a sweat myself aswell.

The other bike is for a mate in Spain, he needs to travel 600m in height meters over a 6km commute from a village to his house over dirt roads. It's hot there so he wants to be able to at least get up there without too much work. He does want range for other travels so we will probably get a big battery.

I have a couple of questions regarding the purchase

* Do I need to buy a higher wattage and/or voltage version for the climbing bike? Or are they all the same motor and is it just marketing from the AliExpress stores? And what would be a decent motor voltage/wattage for my high speed pedelec, I don't want to overspend and for me the Bosch high speed motors are powerful enough (I used to sell these bikes)

* What display do I need to buy that works best for the open source firmware, I mostly want the display to be robust and not to die in some heavy rain.

* Any tips for pre build battery packs? I'd like to build it myself but I'm mostly afraid I won't realistically have the time for building it.

* Last but not least, what is a good store to buy these motors in?

Thanks in advance for any answers!

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 19 2018 2:15am

Malloot wrote:
Sep 19 2018 2:04am
Hey,

I am looking to build 2 bikes with this motor after seeing the fact that you guys developed a open source firmware for it. This seems like absolutely fantastic work and is a mayor bonus for this product, thanks to all involved!

One of the bikes is for in the Netherlands, for a flat 15km commute, i'd like to bike at about 40kmh and want to work up a sweat myself aswell.

The other bike is for a mate in Spain, he needs to travel 600m in height meters over a 6km commute from a village to his house over dirt roads. It's hot there so he wants to be able to at least get up there without too much work. He does want range for other travels so we will probably get a big battery.

I have a couple of questions regarding the purchase

* Do I need to buy a higher wattage and/or voltage version for the climbing bike? Or are they all the same motor and is it just marketing from the AliExpress stores? And what would be a decent motor voltage/wattage for my high speed pedelec, I don't want to overspend and for me the Bosch high speed motors are powerful enough (I used to sell these bikes)

* What display do I need to buy that works best for the open source firmware, I mostly want the display to be robust and not to die in some heavy rain.

* Any tips for pre build battery packs? I'd like to build it myself but I'm mostly afraid I won't realistically have the time for building it.

* Last but not least, what is a good store to buy these motors in?

Thanks in advance for any answers!
Don't forget to read the FAQ on the wiki.

For riding at 40km/h for 15km/h, the motor will get to much hot for sure if you use more than 9 Amps. I suggest you to go with 52V battery and limit the current on LCD3 to 9 Amps, that will be about 450 watts and should be ok to ride at 40km/h on the conditions you say.
It is relatively not easy to install the motor temperature sensor, but for that both ebikes type of usage you mention, I think it is important and will protect your investment.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

maximusdm   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by maximusdm » Sep 19 2018 7:24am

Hallo,

I took a look on the Git repository and I really like the way the C code is written clean and documented, clearly good dev work. Respect for casainho and the others who developed it. This has convinced be to order the KTlcd3 :) today. I will get in in 3-4 weeks I hope.

Meanwhile I am thinking of avoiding the programming cable because an extension cable now costs 30$+ like the LCD. I was thinking of making a 4 pin connector and solder it to the wires at controller level. A connector similar to the one on LCD should get the job done. When I want to flash it, I only have to open 4 screws on the motor case and access it. Easy peasy :).

Please let me know your opinion.
Last edited by maximusdm on Sep 19 2018 10:01am, edited 1 time in total.

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gaber   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by gaber » Sep 19 2018 8:50am

The awesome work of casainho, jbalat and others convinced me to take the plunge and order up everything needed to install the opensource firmware. I've had my stock build together for a week now, and while I'm thrilled with the experience and performance of the motor, I'm very excited at the possibility of further information/customization, higher cadence and a temp sensor. I've been slowly learning code via the arduino platform, and am looking forward to jumping into something deeper. Keep up the improvements!
sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

EndlessCadence   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by EndlessCadence » Sep 19 2018 12:21pm

maximusdm wrote:
Sep 19 2018 7:24am
...
When I want to flash it, I only have to open 4 screws on the motor case and access it. Easy peasy :).

Please let me know your opinion.
While I agree with you that the extension is too expensive to be used as just a programming cable, I think having to open up the motor anytime you want to flash it will soon get very annoying. I had the same issue with the display, alright there are 6 screws. :D

In my case I also have to remove the crank arm when I want to open up the motor.

maximusdm   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by maximusdm » Sep 19 2018 1:44pm

EndlessCadence wrote:
Sep 19 2018 12:21pm
In my case I also have to remove the crank arm when I want to open up the motor.
You do not need to fully open the motor case. You only need to open the 4 screws and you have 1cm access until you hit the crank. This space is enough to pull the conector out.

My goal here is to be backwords compatible.If I want to sell the motor, all I have to do is to flash back the motor and connect the display.

Thanks,
Max.

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Sep 19 2018 3:25pm

Guys, just buy a speed sensor and use the connector ?

darrick255   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by darrick255 » Sep 19 2018 5:00pm

I have a couple of questions for you smart people.

I am looking at buying a used TSDZ2 48v 500w kit. However the kit does not come with a Battery and I currently cannot justify buying a battery.
I am willing to invest in the KTLCD3 as I am very interested in the open source firmware.
I have no issues modifying cables and flashing firmware to the controller and LCD.
I live in the interior of BC. This means that hills are common. Grades of up to 6% are average and 10% to 12% grades are easily within biking distance of my home.
I mostly want the motor to make these hills more manageable while I get in shape. Currently I weigh 210lbs (95KG ish?)
If the kit comes with a throttle I will probably use it but if it doesn't I am installing the temperature sensor when I get a real battery.

While I save up for a battery I would like to use the ebike kit for minor fun and short trips on my side road. I have 3 situations that I could use for a temporary terrible battery.

1st: I have 2 20v Bosch 1.5ah lithium battery packs. I would 3d print holders for the batteries that will put them in series for 40V max 36v nominal.
This will result in a 36v 1.5ah battery. I would configure the max wattage draw to be 250w. This should be a 7 amp draw which is 5C discharge rate. This should be fine for a tool battery.
If this configuration is used I know I will have verylimited range with the battery, but I just want to play.

2nd: I have three 18v black and decker tool batteries. These are not lithium, they are either NiMh or NiCad and I don’t know about the capacity.
The good thing about this option is I don’t care if the batteries get damaged. I’m guessing that this will be a 54v nominal battery with minimal capacity.
The Risk here is letting the magic smoke out of the Tsdz2 controller. As I understand it, 60v is the MAX the capacitors are rated for (mosfets rated at 72v?) I would verify with a multimeter that the fully charged set up did not go above 58.8V at rest. If not I guess I would run each battery in a drill for a minute. Then wait for the voltage to settle. Then I would check again etc.

3rd: I have 2 (used) lead acid car batteries. These are starter batteries for High discharge and low capacity. They are NOT deep cycle batteries.
These placed in series should be 24v nominal. Which as I understand is the lowest voltage the TSDZ2 can be configured to use, 20V complete cut off?
This would be big and heavy. However these batteries should give me the ability to draw much more amps.
I believe that 500w at 24v would be 21 amps max draw which should be enough. This should give me more range as well but this would be a last resort because lead is heavy.

Are these three scenarios plausible? What stands out as a bad idea?

If I find a good deal on a 36 volt battery and decide to get it what are the repercussions of using this on a 48v system? Can I still safely push 500 watts through or will I need to run at 375 watts

As a bonus question what do you recommend I look at for capacity? I might use it for minor mountain biking. I have never done mountain biking and I don’t know if the weight is to much for mountain biking. I really am excited to get involved in mountain biking. It is unlikely but I might commute to work with it. it is 17km both ways. I would be willing to help out fairly generously. the hills on the commute is like this: (or see attached photo if I can figure it out.)

Start altitude: 500 metres
End altitude: 644 metres
Maximum altitude: 644 metres
Minimum altitude: 474 metres
Distance: 17.6 km
Total ascent: 280 metres
Total descent: 135 metres
Maximum gradient ascending: 9% at 5.1 km
Maximum gradient descending: 10% at 4.9 km
Commute Elevation Chart.png
Thanks to everyone for the help

cascarabias   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by cascarabias » Sep 20 2018 2:22am

hello, finally and after installing the new software, I could not run the lcd3 on my tsdz2, possibly my lcd3 is defective therefore I need to install the original software on the engine again.
I tried to restore it from the backup done but it does not respond.
Is there any variation in the operations to do it?
Currently the engine is inoperative.
Thank you
Best regards

mauri_78   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mauri_78 » Sep 20 2018 5:14am

Hi all, in order to increase the maximum cadence is possible to flash the original 48V firmware on a 36V motor?
For now i don't want to flash the open firmware because i haven't a lcd3 and it lack odometer and trip function that for me are very important...
Thanks in advance

maurizio

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 20 2018 5:26am

mauri_78 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 5:14am
For now i don't want to flash the open firmware because i haven't a lcd3 and it lack odometer and trip function that for me are very important...
Odometer and trip function were implemented yesterday, see here the configuration options (on Various): https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... rsion-0.13
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

mauri_78   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mauri_78 » Sep 20 2018 5:40am

Thank you very much casainho, but haven't understood well: is possible to reset the trip distance and mantain a total km counter?
Should also be useful to have the possibility of preset a total km value in order to mantain the total km till now.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 20 2018 5:49am

mauri_78 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 5:40am
Thank you very much casainho, but haven't understood well: is possible to reset the trip distance and mantain a total km counter?
On current implementation, trip distance is automatically reset everytime system is powered off.
Total distance is reset only on configuration menu.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

AZUR   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AZUR » Sep 20 2018 6:17am

casainho wrote:
Sep 20 2018 5:49am
mauri_78 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 5:40am
Thank you very much casainho, but haven't understood well: is possible to reset the trip distance and mantain a total km counter?
On current implementation, trip distance is automatically reset everytime system is powered off.
Total distance is reset only on configuration menu.
Good work Casainho.

Sometimes we power off and we don't finish the trip.

Regards

Azur

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 20 2018 6:40am

AZUR wrote:
Sep 20 2018 6:17am
casainho wrote:
Sep 20 2018 5:49am
mauri_78 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 5:40am
Thank you very much casainho, but haven't understood well: is possible to reset the trip distance and mantain a total km counter?
On current implementation, trip distance is automatically reset everytime system is powered off.
Total distance is reset only on configuration menu.
Good work Casainho.

Sometimes we power off and we don't finish the trip.

Regards

Azur
Then you can use total trip distance??

And maybe we can add another counter just for motor total kms??
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Sep 20 2018 7:00am

Hi,

Just swapped my 250W Bafang BBS01B to a 250W TSDZ2 on my Gazelle Cabby (40KG Cargo Bike) and rode for the first time today. First impressions

Torque sensing is great! The PAS of the Bafang and constant mucking around with the assist level is gone
Noise is not so great. The BBS01B is a lot quieter, especially under full load. Bit disappointed here.
Torque output on the TSDZ2 seems lower, but I need to check and play with the current/power levels in the setup, my Bafang pulled 600W peak with the battery at 42V, the TSDZ2 is only pulling 450W ish currently
Build quality of the brake levers, crank arms of the TSDZ2 seems lower than the Bafang

Any thoughts on if running the opensource firmware will reduce the engine noise? (ie the shape of the wave from the controller)?
Anything else to make the TSDZ2 quieter?
Have a 60KM ride and fun ride and back with two kids in the front this weekend. Will def be a good test

Cheers

mauri_78   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mauri_78 » Sep 20 2018 7:33am

casainho wrote:
Sep 20 2018 6:40am
AZUR wrote:
Sep 20 2018 6:17am
casainho wrote:
Sep 20 2018 5:49am
mauri_78 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 5:40am
Thank you very much casainho, but haven't understood well: is possible to reset the trip distance and mantain a total km counter?
On current implementation, trip distance is automatically reset everytime system is powered off.
Total distance is reset only on configuration menu.
Good work Casainho.

Sometimes we power off and we don't finish the trip.

Regards

Azur
Then you can use total trip distance??

And maybe we can add another counter just for motor total kms??
First of all Thank you very much casainho for your work!

It maybe a solution... in my opinion the better and simpler solution is something similar to the one implemented in VLCD5. A total kms counter(not resettable or resettable with a menù function) and a trip counter that can be resetted in a fast way(eg long press of a button or similar).
A very good improvement could be to have the possibilities to set a starting value for the total counter.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 20 2018 9:33am

mauri_78 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 7:33am
It maybe a solution... in my opinion the better and simpler solution is something similar to the one implemented in VLCD5. A total kms counter(not resettable or resettable with a menù function) and a trip counter that can be resetted in a fast way(eg long press of a button or similar).
A very good improvement could be to have the possibilities to set a starting value for the total counter.
Ok, I understand and agree however I would like to add even another counter (short trip counter?), the one that resets automatically every power off. And user can quickly cycle between this counters and reset them: trip counter and short trip counter. And the users cycle position is stored between power on/off and so user can just keep seeing what it prefers from that both.
Total km counter I assume is for maintenance and that way I would put it only to be read, reset and set a custom value on configurations only.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

mauri_78   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mauri_78 » Sep 20 2018 10:12am

casainho wrote:
Sep 20 2018 9:33am
mauri_78 wrote:
Sep 20 2018 7:33am
It maybe a solution... in my opinion the better and simpler solution is something similar to the one implemented in VLCD5. A total kms counter(not resettable or resettable with a menù function) and a trip counter that can be resetted in a fast way(eg long press of a button or similar).
A very good improvement could be to have the possibilities to set a starting value for the total counter.
Ok, I understand and agree however I would like to add even another counter (short trip counter?), the one that resets automatically every power off. And user can quickly cycle between this counters and reset them: trip counter and short trip counter. And the users cycle position is stored between power on/off and so user can just keep seeing what it prefers from that both.
Total km counter I assume is for maintenance and that way I would put it only to be read, reset and set a custom value on configurations only.
Ok, short trip counter is for sure a function nice to have :-).
In my opinion is better to quickly cycle between short trip, trip and total counter as you can do in all car's and motorbike's cluster.
Reset and set of total km instead is perfect in configuration menu.

Maurizio

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Sep 20 2018 12:29pm

mctubster wrote:
Sep 20 2018 7:00am

Noise is not so great. The BBS01B is a lot quieter, especially under full load. Bit disappointed here.

Cheers
Once you've done 50Km or so the motor quietens down quite a bit ( or perhaps you just get used to it ) and I find mine just a tad louder than the Bafang.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Sep 20 2018 12:32pm

Guys, just be careful on how much you wish, sometimes simple displays are far more informative than a lot of displays and remember the more we ask of Casainho, the more time he has to code, the less time he gets to enjoy the spoils of his work.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Sep 20 2018 5:23pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Sep 20 2018 12:29pm

Once you've done 50Km or so the motor quietens down quite a bit ( or perhaps you just get used to it ) and I find mine just a tad louder than the Bafang.
Thanks for the feedback. A new noise has appeared, I can get used to the motor drone, but seems to have something to do with the clutch.

eg motor only on throttle - no creaking
peddling with or without motor - loud creaking noise on each power stroke from either left or right pedal. Anything I can do to solve this one - it will drive me mad!

Thanks a lot
Steve

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Sep 20 2018 11:18pm

Ignore that re the creaking noise, looks like the motor started coming undone in the bottom bracket. My lock ring did not come with a locking nut or keying to bite into the bottom bracket and I can't use the frame locking mount.

I have done it as tight as I can with the included lock ring spanner, if it comes undone again I may have to try to use a long lever and hope I don't snap something

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