New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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EndlessCadence   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by EndlessCadence » Sep 26 2018 6:38am

casainho wrote:
Sep 26 2018 5:39am
Testing the TSDZ2 flexible OpenSource firmware and the motor temperature sensor

On last weekend, I participated on the most harsh travel I ever did and I could do it only thanks to TSDZ2 and our flexible OpenSource firmware -- I am really happy for all the investment I did up to now!!
Cool story and pictures Casainho! I have to say that the pictures make me quite jealous :D Must have been a great experience!
Last year I did a harsh trip through the Pyrenees (coast to coast) and had to conquer all the big mountains unassisted but was also a great experience I will always remember.

Glad that the temperature worked well for you, I should add a temperature sensor soon too. Now the firmware finally rewards you for all the effort you've put into this project!

Regarding the walk assist: I'm almost ready but it seems that we currently don't have enough resolution to regulate the assist on such low speeds, see my open question at: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... e/issues/7

The minimum value of ebike_app_set_target_adc_battery_max_current() is 1 which already way to much assist for walk speeds. That's why my PID controller isn't working great.

alva78   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by alva78 » Sep 26 2018 9:27am

casainho wrote:
Sep 26 2018 4:20am
alva78 wrote:
Sep 25 2018 4:45pm
hi i need help, i flashed the open v13 firmware on my 8 pin tsdz2 and the klcd3 has bugger, i tried to swap rx and tx but it does not work!
I directly exchanged the cable in klcd3
If you flash the both firmware of same version, it must work if the UART TX and RX lines are correct. Please verify and try again, if it does not work, I would say you have some hardware problem as it is confirmed it works for several users.
the first time I flashed the tsdz2 i press flash all tana,could this be the problem?

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 26 2018 10:31am

Color LCD

I wish we could have a working color LCD, easy to buy online, popular, cheap and that can be programmable. I dream to have some graphs on LCD and not just numbers or text -- what about a graph of motor usage power from last 5 minutes?

hurzhurz is doing great by developing firmware for xh18lcd but there is a big limitation that the STM8 microcontroller used has very low flash memory (32kbytes) and so current firmware size is at the limit of what the flash allows :-(

I just bought the KT-LCD8H display, because it is cheap for 45 euros and some online shops already sell them. Since KT controllers are very popular and cheap, I guess this KT color LCD will follow the success.



But I didn't found any pictures online about the internals of KT-LCD8H... what if it uses a microcontroller that we can't program or if is the same as used on xh18lcd???

I found pictures of 750C display (for Bafang) (70 euros) and it seems to use GD32F103RCT6 that has 256K!! This is a chinese "clone" of STM32F103 and is very popular, it is used on some ebike motor controllers, hoverboards motor controllers, electric unicycles, there is also a version of Arduino using it.
The GD32F103RCT6 is a ARM 32 bits microcontroller, that is way faster than STM8 and has 8x times more flash memory: 256kbytes VS 32kbytes.

Pictures taken from here: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/kn ... umentation

We can see a coin cell, I guess is for having time/hours on the display, so we can setup the time and we can always see the hours, unlike on LCD3.

Image

Image
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Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

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Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Sep 26 2018 12:19pm

Casainho

Before you contemplate using a colour display in the day light, do check that you can see the display in sunlight. Most colour displays become very weak in sunlight and hard to read unless you use a lot of power to illuminate the display. We did a huge amount of work on a colour display given to us to test by a major manufacturer and it worked great indoors but was totally unreadible in direct sunlight, we had to abandon the project.

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Sep 26 2018 5:22pm

Casainho I am really jealous about your trips through the mountains, I would love to do some long distance touring one day. Did you find somewhere to charge along the way or were the batteries enough for you ?

Anyway I have received my temperature sensor so I will attempt to install it over the next couple of days. I don’t have a throttle so it might be hard t locate which wires to use on the controller but will post back if I need help.

One question I noticed you spliced into your throttle wire with the sensor, does that allow you to switch between throttle or temperature in the menu or do you lose throttle altogether once you do the mod ?
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casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 26 2018 6:04pm

jbalat wrote:
Sep 26 2018 5:22pm
Casainho I am really jealous about your trips through the mountains, I would love to do some long distance touring one day. Did you find somewhere to charge along the way or were the batteries enough for you ?

Anyway I have received my temperature sensor so I will attempt to install it over the next couple of days. I don’t have a throttle so it might be hard t locate which wires to use on the controller but will post back if I need help.

One question I noticed you spliced into your throttle wire with the sensor, does that allow you to switch between throttle or temperature in the menu or do you lose throttle altogether once you do the mod ?
I had a place to sleep, take a bath and charge the batteries. And I found that both 2 batteries would be enough for the 2 days (14S5P + 14S4P, each cell Samsung 3.6Ah).

I can't connect throttle while the temperature sensor is wired or a "small" short circuit will happen and nothing will work.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Sep 26 2018 7:00pm

I am very familiar with the 750C, 850C, and 500C color displays. The 750C has a horizontal orientation like the LCD3, The 850C is vertical and the 500C is smaller with a horizontal orientation and up/down/power buttons built-in to the display. The 500C is great for a more discrete/stealthy build or for those wanting the center display space for phone/computer. My preference is the 850C.

While they are a little harder to see in direct sunlight they are all still very readable.

Another advantage they have over the KT LCD3 is that they can be flashed through the main display connector. I have been flashing them with my own version of the firmware for years with a standard USB UART. I am now using all three of them interchangeably on Bafang Motors and have recently started using the 850C on TSDZ2 motors but with the standard firmware.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 26 2018 8:15pm

Rydon wrote:
Sep 26 2018 7:00pm
I am very familiar with the 750C, 850C, and 500C color displays. The 750C has a horizontal orientation like the LCD3, The 850C is vertical and the 500C is smaller with a horizontal orientation and up/down/power buttons built-in to the display. The 500C is great for a more discrete/stealthy build or for those wanting the center display space for phone/computer. My preference is the 850C.

While they are a little harder to see in direct sunlight they are all still very readable.

Another advantage they have over the KT LCD3 is that they can be flashed through the main display connector. I have been flashing them with my own version of the firmware for years with a standard USB UART. I am now using all three of them interchangeably on Bafang Motors and have recently started using the 850C on TSDZ2 motors but with the standard firmware.
Can you please open them/any of them and take pictures of the microcontroller and the board??

What you mean by your own version of firmware?

What version do you recommend?

Is there a version that includes Bluetooth?
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Sep 27 2018 2:23am

casainho wrote:
Sep 26 2018 8:15pm
Rydon wrote:
Sep 26 2018 7:00pm
I am very familiar with the 750C, 850C, and 500C color displays. The 750C has a horizontal orientation like the LCD3, The 850C is vertical and the 500C is smaller with a horizontal orientation and up/down/power buttons built-in to the display. The 500C is great for a more discrete/stealthy build or for those wanting the center display space for phone/computer. My preference is the 850C.

While they are a little harder to see in direct sunlight they are all still very readable.

Another advantage they have over the KT LCD3 is that they can be flashed through the main display connector. I have been flashing them with my own version of the firmware for years with a standard USB UART. I am now using all three of them interchangeably on Bafang Motors and have recently started using the 850C on TSDZ2 motors but with the standard firmware.
Can you please open them/any of them and take pictures of the microcontroller and the board??

What you mean by your own version of firmware?

What version do you recommend?

Is there a version that includes Bluetooth?
Here is a picture of the circuit board in an 850C. It is glued together so taking it apart was not pretty.

Image

The manufacturer did some firmware modifications for me so that is what I mean by my own version that I flash into the displays.

I prefer the 850C over the 750C. The 500C is new and I like it for the reasons mentioned but still think the 850C is the best all-around display.

I just returned from Interbike 2018 and the manufacturer showed me a new version with Bluetooth. It is different than the one in the picture.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 27 2018 3:38am

Rydon wrote:
Sep 27 2018 2:23am

The manufacturer did some firmware modifications for me so that is what I mean by my own version that I flash into the displays.

I prefer the 850C over the 750C. The 500C is new and I like it for the reasons mentioned but still think the 850C is the best all-around display.

I just returned from Interbike 2018 and the manufacturer showed me a new version with Bluetooth. It is different than the one in the picture.
Image

That is great because it uses the same GD32F103RET6 as the other display version and flash memory with 512kbytes, and the board seems similar, so this means they reuse technology and so we can also reuse firmware :-)

hurzhurz is developing xh18lcd using the OpenSource UTFT LCD library, and the same library exists for STM32F103/GD32F103, so this means we can reuse at least the knowledge between the projects.

I think this Bafang displays are not cheap, but they popular/easy to buy online and clearly are easy to program.
And yes, seems the next innovation is to add Bluetooth to the LCDs.

Can you please ex[lain how to you program them? what is the software (please show screenshot)? do you need to press any button on the LCD to program? -- I am trying to understand if it uses a custom bootloader or the factory UART bootloader of STM32.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

cascarabias   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by cascarabias » Sep 27 2018 6:45am

hello again, I bought a new KT-LCD3 I flashed it to the V.13 hex and it works perfectly !!!.
Really is a new engine, power, smoothness, no noise ...
I only have one question: when the screen is on and I try to push the bike back, there is resistance from the engine to go backwards !!! This does not happen when it is off. Is it normal for this to happen?
Many thanks to casahino, jbalat, Endlesscadence for your work and attention !!!

I have seen the motor anchors for double suspension bicycles that have been published in this forum, I use a different type of anchor that is subject to the front bar, very easy to make and reliable. But I tried to put a photo in the message and it does not leave me. When I find out how it is done, I will put them on.

Best regards

shaddi   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by shaddi » Sep 27 2018 6:47am

shaddi wrote:
Sep 25 2018 2:43am
just found a shop in germany that ships the speed sensor for a fair price..
https://www.elektrofahrrad-einfach.de/p ... agnet.html
meh, this part only have a 4-pole connector and does not work for flashing. Just sending it back and ordering this, like hurzhurz suggested:
https://www.elektrofahrrad-einfach.de/p ... DU250.html

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 27 2018 6:48am

cascarabias wrote:
Sep 27 2018 6:45am
hello again, I bought a new KT-LCD3 I flashed it to the V.13 hex and it works perfectly !!!.
Really is a new engine, power, smoothness, no noise ...
I only have one question: when the screen is on and I try to push the bike back, there is resistance from the engine to go backwards !!! This does not happen when it is off. Is it normal for this to happen?
Many thanks to casahino, jbalat, Endlesscadence for your work and attention !!!

I have seen the motor anchors for double suspension bicycles that have been published in this forum, I use a different type of anchor that is subject to the front bar, very easy to make and reliable. But I tried to put a photo in the message and it does not leave me. When I find out how it is done, I will put them on.
Thanks for the feedback!!

Yes, that of resistance when pushing backwards is something we need to improve.

Please post you image, I need to build a dual suspension ebike and I would like to know more, you can upload your files like on here: https://imgbb.com/
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

cascarabias   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by cascarabias » Sep 27 2018 10:11am

I downloaded the images on this website, I really do not know how it works.
I put the link, is it like this?

https://cascarabias.imgbb.com/albums

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 27 2018 10:13am

cascarabias wrote:
Sep 27 2018 10:11am
I downloaded the images on this website, I really do not know how it works.
I put the link, is it like this?

https://cascarabias.imgbb.com/albums
I can't see any images. Try this one instead: https://postimages.org/
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa


Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Sep 27 2018 8:08pm

casainho wrote:
Sep 27 2018 3:38am
Can you please ex[lain how to you program them? what is the software (please show screenshot)? do you need to press any button on the LCD to program? -- I am trying to understand if it uses a custom bootloader or the factory UART bootloader of STM32.
The bootloader (Burn Tool) is custom that they provide They also include a Silicon Labs driver for USB/UART - CP210x_VCP_Win_XP_S2K3_Vista_7.exe They may we willing to work with you directly. They just want to maximize display sales.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 28 2018 4:37am

Thanks!!

Image

Image

Image

Image
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 28 2018 4:40am

Rydon wrote:
Sep 27 2018 8:08pm
casainho wrote:
Sep 27 2018 3:38am
Can you please ex[lain how to you program them? what is the software (please show screenshot)? do you need to press any button on the LCD to program? -- I am trying to understand if it uses a custom bootloader or the factory UART bootloader of STM32.
The bootloader (Burn Tool) is custom that they provide They also include a Silicon Labs driver for USB/UART - CP210x_VCP_Win_XP_S2K3_Vista_7.exe They may we willing to work with you directly. They just want to maximize display sales.
For what I could see, they use a bootloader as the firmware file name includes the word IAP.

Well, I hope we will beable to do like on KT-LCD3, open the LCD and flash the firmware. And maybe later develop a bootloader... or maybe someone can try to understand how the original works...
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

mauri_78   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mauri_78 » Sep 28 2018 4:42am

I just want to thank casainho for the great work!
From italian forum jobike we are following with a great interest the development of the open firmware and some users reports a great experience with this firmware. This is the link to the discussion regarding open firmware on jobike:

http://www.jobike.it/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=76426

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 28 2018 4:45am

mauri_78 wrote:
Sep 28 2018 4:42am
I just want to thank casainho for the great work!
From italian forum jobike we are following with a great interest the development of the open firmware and some users reports a great experience with this firmware. This is the link to the discussion regarding open firmware on jobike:

http://www.jobike.it/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=76426
Thanks!! and I hope more users can help writing documentation on wiki, there is a lot of knowledge about TSDZ2 that needs to be written for new users.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

pawepie   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by pawepie » Sep 28 2018 11:06am

casainho! Love all the value your open source firmware is giving to this motor and all these users! Your trip looks gorgeous too - thanks for sharing those photos!

I'm wondering if for the next version of the firmware, someone could add "human power" in submenu 9 (option 5), to the main display, where we have the cadence, voltage, odometer, etc.

I could probably do this (easy copy/paste/modification), but don't have github setup in my toolchain so everyone else can benefit. Do any code tinkerers volunteer for this?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bartman » Sep 28 2018 11:41am

Does the VLC5 (standard tsdz2 LCD screen) work with a TSDZ2 motor that has been flashed with the opensource software ? Reason I ask is that I've flashed my motor and the new LCD , but have not fitted lcd3 yet. I e also had to redo my batter as the case smashed. When I did a test run, the vlcd5 comes on but does not register speed or provide any assistance.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Sep 28 2018 11:44am

erian, Why would you put an electric assist on a racing bike? A TDSZ2 system with a large battery could nearly double the weight. The bike would NEVER have racing bike characteristics again. In my view a hybrid type bike, with suspension, would be a better choice. The assist will compensate for the heavier bike weight, plus boost you to your cruising speed. I have the XH-18 small controller. It has a flaw, or design feature, that shuts it off after about 5 minutes of inactivity. Have to have your feet off the pedals to get the torque sensor to initialize properly when you power off/on to reset the controller.

If you are a "spinner" remember that the TDSZ2 boost stops at about 90rpm. You will have to have cluster gearing that will let you reach desired speed at less than 90rpm. May have to change the standard chainring to a 52 tooth, or larger.

I only have about 500 miles on my system - no problems so far.
I don't know why would this be useful design feature. Haven't seen any bicycle speedometer which would require fiddling with buttons to prevent it from shutting itself off while riding and forcing you to stop and get off from the bike.
Still find it hard to believe it should shut itself down in unassisted mode. There is no other choice but to periodically activate it for a second to prevent it form happening again and being forced to dismount. Can get a bit too tiring paying attention to it all the time.

Hurricane1973   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Hurricane1973 » Sep 28 2018 5:21pm

Hi everyone,
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bafang- ... 3c00wU5ZL3

I thought this cable might come in useful for connecting the lcd3 to the tsdz2. Good price too. Can anyone chime in on if it will work?

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