New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
tomtom50   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomtom50 » Jan 27 2019 12:37pm

Rydon wrote:
Jan 26 2019 9:04pm
GA cells in a 2P configuration are not great for continuous output above 12-13 amps. I always use a higher power cell like the Samsung 30Q which are great up to 25 amps continuous and peaks of 35-40 amps. A little overkill for TSDZ2 but can also be used for Bafang BBS02 and BBSHD. Slightly lower capacity than GA cells though.
What happens with GA at 10A per cell? Do they get too hot and can't cool bundled together in a pack?

Bigwheel   100 W

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Replacement bearings

Post by Bigwheel » Jan 27 2019 2:11pm

Quite awhile ago now the spindle bearings in my TSDZ2 failed. I put up a request in this thread about the part #s for replacing but never got any feedback. As I have other eBikes to ride my MTB that I have it on has been off to the side but recently I have been missing it and wanting to get it back in the rotation so I went a bit deeper in my search. Here are the necessary numbers:

HF1216 The one way needle bearing

609RS Roller bearing, even available in ceramic.....

30 CSK-P The Sprag clutch/bearing

All are available online or at good bearing supply houses in major cities. None are very expensive and highly recommend getting as best of quality to replace the original Chineseium ones as can be afforded because it is kind of a process to do an overhaul as you would imagine. FYI mine failed at around 800 miles of primarily rugged single track use with lot's of elevation gain.

davefarmer   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by davefarmer » Jan 28 2019 1:11am

That's great Bigwheel, thanks! Did you find any online sources for them?

Ron Paul's Blimp   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Ron Paul's Blimp » Jan 28 2019 12:08pm

I've been using a 14s2p pack with GA cells (the one from Luna) in my BBS02 for awhile, and now I use the same pack with my TSDZ2. It's been fine but I also never come anywhere near using 12A+ continuously in either setup. I limit it to 16A in firmware on both motors just to be conservative. I have it in a Mondopack XL when I'm not using a pannier, and I put it in the pannier when I do have one (easier to take off the bike with me when it's already in the pannier).

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Jan 28 2019 2:24pm

tomtom50 wrote:
Jan 27 2019 12:37pm
Rydon wrote:
Jan 26 2019 9:04pm
GA cells in a 2P configuration are not great for continuous output above 12-13 amps. I always use a higher power cell like the Samsung 30Q which are great up to 25 amps continuous and peaks of 35-40 amps. A little overkill for TSDZ2 but can also be used for Bafang BBS02 and BBSHD. Slightly lower capacity than GA cells though.
What happens with GA at 10A per cell? Do they get too hot and can't cool bundled together in a pack?
Yes, they will overheat at 10 amps. Also, battery life is seriously impacted. Lithium batteries are always a bunch of tradeoffs. Both on the manufacturing side and on the user side. 30Q cells are rated at 15 amps but when we run a 2p at WOT with a 30amp BBSHD, the internal battery temperature sensor shuts it down after about 10 minutes and that baby is hot!. We tell people to run 30Q at less than 22 amps continuous and GA at less than 15. If you want to maximize life then go lower than that.

tomtom50   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomtom50 » Jan 29 2019 12:41am

Thanks for info. Are you in the ebike business?

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Jan 29 2019 12:48am

tomtom50 wrote:
Jan 29 2019 12:41am
Thanks for info. Are you in the ebike business?
Yes, my retirement hobby kind of got away from me. :wink:

Ron Paul's Blimp   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Ron Paul's Blimp » Jan 29 2019 1:11am

Yeah I mean if you're running one of these 6-7Ah packs at 15-20A continuous, you only have a few minutes before the battery is flat, anyway. They're perfect my use case though, which I want a light bike that still feels like a bike and I can easily carry. I don't use the motor much except for getting up a crazy steep hill on my commute.

Cristian   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Cristian » Jan 31 2019 7:22am

Does anybody know this connector: https://www.ebike-solutions.com/en/shop ... ction_ms=1

Will it work for the 8 wire version?

Thanks

raylo32   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Jan 31 2019 9:19am

I just joined the TSDZ2 club having installed one on my old Cannondale F1000 MTB. I haven't had it on the road yet as I am waiting for my ride battery to arrive and waiting for the polar vortex to depart. I have tested it pretty thoroughly indoors on a Kurt Kinetic fluid trainer using an EGO 52V power tool battery and it seems to work great. I am also designing an EGO battery socket for 3D printing so I can use those batteries when I go short and light... or to carry as backup.

See a couple of photos in the "Before and After" build thread here on endless sphere. A more detailed build thread can be found here: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/ma ... dale-f1000

I look forward to learning from the community as we go along.

Rvs4   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rvs4 » Feb 01 2019 2:37pm

Hoping someone can give me some advice... I'm don't know if I'm screwed or not.

I rode my 52v tsdz2 in a light snow today. Worked fine for about 2 hours. Then all of a sudden it would make a straining kind of noise when I would pedal or push the throttle. Now, the display turns on, but when I pedal or push the throttle nothing at all happens ....no noise, no movement, no nothing. My guess is the motor got wet. Im currently letting it dry out. Did I fry something???? I tested the battery and it seems fine.

elknerps   1 µW

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How do you connect to Bafang 850C with STLink

Post by elknerps » Feb 01 2019 8:26pm

Can anyone tell me how you program the Bafang 850C with the STLink or how you program it. I could not find any guide on actually programming it. Exactly what pins on the STLink connect to which pins on the 850C. Any link would be helpful or a general description with details on the connection. And I have looked at the Wiki page but it is not that detailed. For example what connects the the NRST pin? Do you use the stsw-link004 to program it?

Rydon   100 W

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Re: How do you connect to Bafang 850C with STLink

Post by Rydon » Feb 01 2019 8:38pm

elknerps wrote:
Feb 01 2019 8:26pm
Can anyone tell me how you program the Bafang 850C with the STLink or how you program it. I could not find any guide on actually programming it. Exactly what pins on the STLink connect to which pins on the 850C. Any link would be helpful or a general description with details on the connection. And I have looked at the Wiki page but it is not that detailed. For example what connects the the NRST pin? Do you use the stsw-link004 to program it?
850c firmware is not ready for testing yet. Casainho will post something when that happens.

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Feb 01 2019 8:45pm

Rvs4 wrote:
Feb 01 2019 2:37pm
Hoping someone can give me some advice... I'm don't know if I'm screwed or not.

I rode my 52v tsdz2 in a light snow today. Worked fine for about 2 hours. Then all of a sudden it would make a straining kind of noise when I would pedal or push the throttle. Now, the display turns on, but when I pedal or push the throttle nothing at all happens ....no noise, no movement, no nothing. My guess is the motor got wet. Im currently letting it dry out. Did I fry something???? I tested the battery and it seems fine.
Sometimes it will be fine after drying out. If it is cold bring it indoors or you can try warming up the motor & display with a hair dryer. Sometimes it takes a few days if water got inside. Then again, yes, you could have fried something. I have seen it go both ways multiple times.

dameri   100 W

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Re: How do you connect to Bafang 850C with STLink

Post by dameri » Feb 02 2019 7:06am

elknerps wrote:
Feb 01 2019 8:26pm
Can anyone tell me how you program the Bafang 850C with the STLink or how you program it. I could not find any guide on actually programming it. Exactly what pins on the STLink connect to which pins on the 850C. Any link would be helpful or a general description with details on the connection. And I have looked at the Wiki page but it is not that detailed. For example what connects the the NRST pin? Do you use the stsw-link004 to program it?
Look here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=97083

adam B   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by adam B » Feb 02 2019 9:39am

So Then what is the ultimate 52v Battery with open source software for my 52v 750w tsdz2?
I am currently running 52v 14ah samsung 30q (I will soon put this on my bafang ultra g510)and want to get the ultimate for my tsdz2.

Bigwheel   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bigwheel » Feb 02 2019 6:31pm

adam B wrote:
Feb 02 2019 9:39am
So Then what is the ultimate 52v Battery with open source software for my 52v 750w tsdz2?
This one with 21700 Samsung 50E cells:
0-1.jpeg
0-1.jpeg (41.89 KiB) Viewed 1394 times
Specs for the 50E cell here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h7x6rdnD3I&t=183s

Unfortunately still a bit away from prime time but soon.

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Feb 03 2019 12:11am

Bigwheel wrote:
Feb 02 2019 6:31pm
adam B wrote:
Feb 02 2019 9:39am
So Then what is the ultimate 52v Battery with open source software for my 52v 750w tsdz2?
This one with 21700 Samsung 50E cells:

Specs for the 50E cell here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h7x6rdnD3I&t=183s

Unfortunately still a bit away from prime time but soon.
Actually, that battery is now in production. I looked at it because the new 21700 50E cells have good numbers all around. Unfortunately, the complete package doesn't raise the bar high enough compared to the 18650 GA cell shark batteries. It is quite a bit bigger than the Shark or Super Shark but more expensive and only 50wh more capacity. It is almost as big as the Jumbo Shark but is only 780wh to the Jumbo Sharks 910wh.

To answer adam B on ultimate battery it really depends on what you need and what will fit. I think the 52v Super Shark with GA cells is the best all around. Great price and capacity. If it fits on your downtube it keeps the weight low and centered like the motor. Looks great. Mounts easily and solidly. 3rd generation of this form factor.

adam B   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by adam B » Feb 03 2019 1:53am

Thanks Roydon
Would 52v 17ah be overkill with the GA cells?

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Feb 03 2019 2:57am

adam B wrote:
Feb 03 2019 1:53am
Thanks Roydon
Would 52v 17ah be overkill with the GA cells?
Not if you want TSDZ2 for your entire century ride! :)

adam B   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by adam B » Feb 03 2019 3:23am

Rydon wrote:
adam B wrote:
Feb 03 2019 1:53am
Thanks Roydon
Would 52v 17ah be overkill with the GA cells?
Not if you want TSDZ2 for your entire century ride! :)
??


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adam B   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by adam B » Feb 03 2019 4:53am

Ok but I guess there is a weight trade off?
I’m new at this! So if I got a 52v 11ah or 13ah battery ( GAcells) it would have the same power, just less distance therefore needing to be charged more regularly?
Thanks for the education!!


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James Broadhurst   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by James Broadhurst » Feb 03 2019 5:27am

Bigwheel wrote:
Feb 02 2019 6:31pm

Specs for the 50E cell here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h7x6rdnD3I&t=183s

Unfortunately still a bit away from prime time but soon.
This cell needs to produce more power to have a better volumetric and gravimetric efficiency than a regular 18650 cell, eg LG 3,500 mah MJ1, so it puzzles me why it gets such a good press. The only advantage might be mechanical; there are fewer cells for a given capacity and therefore fewer secured connections.

tomtom50   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomtom50 » Feb 03 2019 11:10am

Rydon wrote:
Feb 03 2019 2:57am
adam B wrote:
Feb 03 2019 1:53am
Thanks Roydon
Would 52v 17ah be overkill with the GA cells?
Not if you want TSDZ2 for your entire century ride! :)
It totally depends on what you want to do. I have 52V 12.8Ah (56 cell) shark that is good for 75 miles the way I ride. But I never ride 75 miles at once, I'm perfectly happy limiting at 500W. If I knew then what I know now I'd have gone for a 14S2P GA 7Ah at half the weight.

Bigwheel   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bigwheel » Feb 03 2019 11:30am

Not disputing the performance figures but I do not think the one pictured above is that much larger actually than the 10ah shark I have here.
0-2.jpeg
0-2.jpeg (36.02 KiB) Viewed 1308 times
About 1/2" longer and taller and slightly wider is all.

it is heavier however.

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