New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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mariosfx   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mariosfx » Feb 24 2019 11:43am

hi everyone. i read a lot of the posts in this thread but i still need some help for my build. i have a cannondale prestige rohloff bike and want to transform it to e-bike. i prefer the tsdz2 way because i dont want to skip pedaling. i didnt understand what build is better. 36v motor with 48 battery? or 48v motor with 48v battery. i will try the opensource firmware definitely. so can somebody give me the pros and cons of either builds? thanks in advance.

Peetsyo   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Peetsyo » Feb 24 2019 2:06pm

If you open the tsdz2 cover to get acces to the controller , change the cover screws. After opening it twice , i've now got two stripped screw heads.
Resized_20190224_205530_4339.jpeg

tomtom50   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomtom50 » Feb 24 2019 3:58pm

mariosfx wrote:
Feb 24 2019 11:43am
hi everyone. i read a lot of the posts in this thread but i still need some help for my build. i have a cannondale prestige rohloff bike and want to transform it to e-bike. i prefer the tsdz2 way because i dont want to skip pedaling. i didnt understand what build is better. 36v motor with 48 battery? or 48v motor with 48v battery. i will try the opensource firmware definitely. so can somebody give me the pros and cons of either builds? thanks in advance.
There are a lot of posts, but the basic idea is simple: The stock voltages are best for most people, only riders with a higher than average pedal cadence (>90rpm) should consider a non-stock setup.

If your natural pedal cadence is 90 rpm or lower there is nothing to consider. Buy 48V and run it at 48V. If it is higher than 90 rpm you might want a custom setup.

So get on your bike, get into your natural groove, and count how many pedal revolutions you make in a minute.

I have a high-rise cadence around 90. The stock setup is fine.

tomtom50   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomtom50 » Feb 24 2019 4:09pm

Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 24 2019 2:06pm
If you open the tsdz2 cover to get acces to the controller , change the cover screws. After opening it twice , i've now got two stripped screw heads.

Resized_20190224_205530_4339.jpeg
Various epoxies claim to fix this type of failure, but they replace a material that failed with something weaker.

The best fix here, if there is depth, is to use a tap drill, drill deeper, tap the hole deeper, and use a longer screw.

The new threads will be as strong as the old threads were, but not stronger. You probably over-torqued the screws before.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Feb 24 2019 4:58pm

Bit of a random one

Have been riding the TSDZ2 for the last month after moving countries via Air and not being able to take my 600Wh Li-Ion battery on the plane. Funny though because I bought 7 drone batteries on close out sale (52Wh each) and carried them on the plane - I could have carried over 1KWh of LiPo batteries as long as they are <100Wh each as carry on! ... anyway.

I have now built my 36V 10S4P LiPo battery with BMS.

Where I now live, my rides are short and generally flat.

I only need the motor for getting away so to speak (two kids me and cargo bike) and was planning to program assist multiplier 0 with boost function so the motor does not run at other times. I do want emergency power however ... I don't have a throttle connected but if I did wire it up to a momentary switch to short the throttle lead would it provide "full power" or nothing because of the assist multiplier = 0?

Cheers

jur   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jur » Feb 24 2019 5:21pm

tomtom50 wrote:
Feb 24 2019 4:09pm
Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 24 2019 2:06pm
If you open the tsdz2 cover to get acces to the controller , change the cover screws. After opening it twice , i've now got two stripped screw heads.

Resized_20190224_205530_4339.jpeg
Various epoxies claim to fix this type of failure, but they replace a material that failed with something weaker.

The best fix here, if there is depth, is to use a tap drill, drill deeper, tap the hole deeper, and use a longer screw.

The new threads will be as strong as the old threads were, but not stronger. You probably over-torqued the screws before.
You could fix it with a helicoil, which is stronger than original threads.

knutselmaaster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Feb 24 2019 6:05pm

jur wrote:
Feb 24 2019 5:21pm
tomtom50 wrote:
Feb 24 2019 4:09pm
Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 24 2019 2:06pm
If you open the tsdz2 cover to get acces to the controller , change the cover screws. After opening it twice , i've now got two stripped screw heads.

Resized_20190224_205530_4339.jpeg
Various epoxies claim to fix this type of failure, but they replace a material that failed with something weaker.

The best fix here, if there is depth, is to use a tap drill, drill deeper, tap the hole deeper, and use a longer screw.

The new threads will be as strong as the old threads were, but not stronger. You probably over-torqued the screws before.
You could fix it with a helicoil, which is stronger than original threads.
If I understand well, it is only the heads that are damaged, not the thread.
The screws are indeed a bit weak, but at least if the head fails before the thread in the housing does that protects the housing.
There is no need to apply a lot of torque on those screws anyway...

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gaber   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by gaber » Feb 26 2019 5:50am

eyebyesickle wrote:
Feb 22 2019 10:48pm
I am always checking out good conversion candidates... I think this bike would be very good for a commuter conversion...belt drive and IGH... I would do a 36v witha stealth bottle battery...what do you guys think?>

https://www.prioritybicycles.com/products/continuumonyx
FWIW an old co-worker of mine has this bike and loved it. I was impressed with the build quality at the price point and was eyeballing them for a while. I’ll probably end up going cargo when I +1 and return my CX bike to pedal power. Think I could get a belt long enough for a cargo bike? :lol:
sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

Peetsyo   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Peetsyo » Feb 26 2019 8:07am

knutselmaaster wrote:
Feb 24 2019 6:05pm
jur wrote:
Feb 24 2019 5:21pm
tomtom50 wrote:
Feb 24 2019 4:09pm
Peetsyo wrote:
Feb 24 2019 2:06pm
If you open the tsdz2 cover to get acces to the controller , change the cover screws. After opening it twice , i've now got two stripped screw heads.

Resized_20190224_205530_4339.jpeg
Various epoxies claim to fix this type of failure, but they replace a material that failed with something weaker.

The best fix here, if there is depth, is to use a tap drill, drill deeper, tap the hole deeper, and use a longer screw.

The new threads will be as strong as the old threads were, but not stronger. You probably over-torqued the screws before.
You could fix it with a helicoil, which is stronger than original threads.
If I understand well, it is only the heads that are damaged, not the thread.
The screws are indeed a bit weak, but at least if the head fails before the thread in the housing does that protects the housing.
There is no need to apply a lot of torque on those screws anyway...

YES , only the heads are damaged. It might be because of my bad hexagon tool . I purchased new screw's with bigger hexagon head.

mariosfx   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mariosfx » Feb 26 2019 12:44pm

tomtom50 wrote:
Feb 24 2019 3:58pm
mariosfx wrote:
Feb 24 2019 11:43am
hi everyone. i read a lot of the posts in this thread but i still need some help for my build. i have a cannondale prestige rohloff bike and want to transform it to e-bike. i prefer the tsdz2 way because i dont want to skip pedaling. i didnt understand what build is better. 36v motor with 48 battery? or 48v motor with 48v battery. i will try the opensource firmware definitely. so can somebody give me the pros and cons of either builds? thanks in advance.
There are a lot of posts, but the basic idea is simple: The stock voltages are best for most people, only riders with a higher than average pedal cadence (>90rpm) should consider a non-stock setup.

If your natural pedal cadence is 90 rpm or lower there is nothing to consider. Buy 48V and run it at 48V. If it is higher than 90 rpm you might want a custom setup.

So get on your bike, get into your natural groove, and count how many pedal revolutions you make in a minute.

I have a high-rise cadence around 90. The stock setup is fine.
thank you for answering. and what about wattage? the only option is 48v 500w?

bacman   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bacman » Feb 26 2019 6:41pm

Dear Endless Sphere users, this is my first post and I would like to thank you all for this endless amount of knowledge.

I bought new bike for my first e-bike conversion. I studied this topic a year ago and I wonder if there is any development in mid drive motors.
Is there any other reasonably prices mid-drive with real torque sensing than TDSZ2?
If I remember correctly Bafang does not have any torque sensing. There were some Bafang employees with their new motor with torque sensing - there were some problems, torque measuring was poor.
So is there, after a year, any other alternative to TDSZ2?

Also is there some production shortage of TDSZ2? There is not a single one on Aliexpress shipped from Germany.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Feb 26 2019 8:19pm

mariosfx wrote:
Feb 26 2019 12:44pm

thank you for answering. and what about wattage? the only option is 48v 500w?
my understanding is that there is no mechanic / electrical difference in the different wattage versions, other than potentially the current limit set in firmware (which can be modified) or even simply "branding" with no difference.

The only physical model differences are 36V and 48/54V versions (and the 36V version can run on 54V, but at a higher cadence)

Peetsyo   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Peetsyo » Feb 27 2019 9:54am

raylo32 wrote:
Feb 21 2019 10:04am
Where are you going to fit the battery on that bike??
I will make my own U-shape battery of fiberglass and hang it underneath the downtube.
I have not decided yet , should it be 2P or 3P
20190227_164816.jpg
20190227_164816.jpg (67.59 KiB) Viewed 1000 times

Strider   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Strider » Feb 27 2019 10:05am

I've read that the TSDZ2 motor is very fast on temperature.

Therefore, I was wondering if in the summer, with an outside temperature of 25 degrees, it is possible to cycle for a long time (30min) on 35km/h.

This on a flat road.

Does anyone have experience with this?

hego   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hego » Feb 27 2019 11:38am

Is normal the verify error 0x4000 data memory (is empty) at the final programming?

The original HEX file v9.18.2 is also empty.

I think must programming the customs variables.

The rest it seems well..

Cheers

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ALLL RIGHT !!!! it must read and programming ALL TABS!!!
There is any problen.
Thank´s

dameri   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Feb 27 2019 1:00pm

Strider wrote:
Feb 27 2019 10:05am
I've read that the TSDZ2 motor is very fast on temperature.

Therefore, I was wondering if in the summer, with an outside temperature of 25 degrees, it is possible to cycle for a long time (30min) on 35km/h.

This on a flat road.

Does anyone have experience with this?
I drived last summer on 27 °C 52 kilometers with average speed 23 km/h and no problem with stock firmware. I haven’t yet drived on hot weather with open source firmware.

knutselmaaster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Feb 27 2019 2:21pm

Strider wrote:
Feb 27 2019 10:05am
I've read that the TSDZ2 motor is very fast on temperature.

Therefore, I was wondering if in the summer, with an outside temperature of 25 degrees, it is possible to cycle for a long time (30min) on 35km/h.

This on a flat road.

Does anyone have experience with this?
It all depends on what version. As all the 36V versions have the same hardware and all the 48V versions have the same hardware, obviously the higher wattage models will heat up a lot quicker. It will be hard to heat up a 250w version and easy to overheat a 750w version.

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itsallwhite   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by itsallwhite » Feb 27 2019 10:09pm

I'm enjoying my TSDZ2 (48v 500w) but would like to make a couple of small tweaks. In general I'm happy with the firmware but would like to:

Increase to 18a max power (from 15) to give 750w+ max power for a couple of very short but steep hills (I tow a trailer with 2 kids)

Maintain power even when battery charge is lower (seems to drop power when battery charge drops down)

I like the look of the custom firmware but don't really want to mess with things too much .

I've got the ST Link V2 and I'm waiting on speed sensor cable to flash.

Is it possible to increase max amps & maintain power by editing values in stock firmware or could I use modified firmware supplied by Eco-Bike rather than using custom firmware?
Bike 1: Giant Hybrid Steel Frame (old) with TSDZ2 48v 500w.
Bike 2: GT Sensor 2 full suspension mountain bike. Work in Progress - ready to 'electrify'!
House: 100% off grid - 5.6kw solar array with selectronics inverter and 24 Volt 1450 Ah BAE Gel battery Bank

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Feb 28 2019 1:14am

itsallwhite wrote:
Feb 27 2019 10:09pm
I'm enjoying my TSDZ2 (48v 500w) but would like to make a couple of small tweaks. In general I'm happy with the firmware but would like to:

Increase to 18a max power (from 15) to give 750w+ max power for a couple of very short but steep hills (I tow a trailer with 2 kids)

Maintain power even when battery charge is lower (seems to drop power when battery charge drops down)

I like the look of the custom firmware but don't really want to mess with things too much .

I've got the ST Link V2 and I'm waiting on speed sensor cable to flash.

Is it possible to increase max amps & maintain power by editing values in stock firmware or could I use modified firmware supplied by Eco-Bike rather than using custom firmware?
If you are wanting to maximise power output, especially at lower states of battery charge, I strongly suggest you go to the opensource firmware. The code is more efficient at driving the motor and the power does not drop off like the manufacturers firmware. Not sure re your 18A question, I thought there is a hard 16A limit?

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 28 2019 2:11am

mctubster wrote:
Feb 28 2019 1:14am
itsallwhite wrote:
Feb 27 2019 10:09pm
I'm enjoying my TSDZ2 (48v 500w) but would like to make a couple of small tweaks. In general I'm happy with the firmware but would like to:

Increase to 18a max power (from 15) to give 750w+ max power for a couple of very short but steep hills (I tow a trailer with 2 kids)

Maintain power even when battery charge is lower (seems to drop power when battery charge drops down)

I like the look of the custom firmware but don't really want to mess with things too much .

I've got the ST Link V2 and I'm waiting on speed sensor cable to flash.

Is it possible to increase max amps & maintain power by editing values in stock firmware or could I use modified firmware supplied by Eco-Bike rather than using custom firmware?
If you are wanting to maximise power output, especially at lower states of battery charge, I strongly suggest you go to the opensource firmware. The code is more efficient at driving the motor and the power does not drop off like the manufacturers firmware. Not sure re your 18A question, I thought there is a hard 16A limit?
There is no hard limit, you guys can go to firmware and try to go over the 18 amps but no one yet tried it to see if the motor can handle it or if something brake.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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itsallwhite   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by itsallwhite » Feb 28 2019 4:41am

Thank you! I'll look in to using the custom firmware but maybe using the VLCD5/6 fork that Marco is created before purchasing a new display.
Bike 1: Giant Hybrid Steel Frame (old) with TSDZ2 48v 500w.
Bike 2: GT Sensor 2 full suspension mountain bike. Work in Progress - ready to 'electrify'!
House: 100% off grid - 5.6kw solar array with selectronics inverter and 24 Volt 1450 Ah BAE Gel battery Bank

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itsallwhite   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by itsallwhite » Feb 28 2019 4:52am

Another quick question - how do I remove the crank arms? I purchased a smaller chainring but don't know how to remove the crank arm. Do I need a special tool?!
Bike 1: Giant Hybrid Steel Frame (old) with TSDZ2 48v 500w.
Bike 2: GT Sensor 2 full suspension mountain bike. Work in Progress - ready to 'electrify'!
House: 100% off grid - 5.6kw solar array with selectronics inverter and 24 Volt 1450 Ah BAE Gel battery Bank

Peetsyo   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Peetsyo » Feb 28 2019 5:10am

knutselmaaster wrote:
Feb 27 2019 2:21pm
Strider wrote:
Feb 27 2019 10:05am
I've read that the TSDZ2 motor is very fast on temperature.
It all depends on what version. As all the 36V versions have the same hardware and all the 48V versions have the same hardware, obviously the higher wattage models will heat up a lot quicker. It will be hard to heat up a 250w version and easy to overheat a 750w version.
Has anyone tried to fill the air gap between the motor and the housing cover ? There is a lot of air under the cover and air has very bad thermal conductivity . Heat is not trasferred properly to the cover.
Maybe silicone thermal glue ?

ri53hu   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ri53hu » Feb 28 2019 5:30am

allwhite-Shimano TL-FC10

:P

ri53hu   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ri53hu » Feb 28 2019 5:34am

Peetsyo - thinking about the leggy copper wool would play better heat.

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