New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Bash1303   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bash1303 » Feb 28 2019 7:57am

Hello every one

The inner motor seems to have given upp :(
I manager to order a replacement that Will take some time.

My question is if i connect my old hub motor 36v 350w (hall sensor) to the controller. Will it run normal or i Will be damaging the controller?

I am running the open source firmware V 17

Best regards
Last edited by Bash1303 on Feb 28 2019 8:11am, edited 1 time in total.

cj11363   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by cj11363 » Feb 28 2019 8:06am

itsallwhite wrote:
Feb 28 2019 4:52am
Another quick question - how do I remove the crank arms? I purchased a smaller chainring but don't know how to remove the crank arm. Do I need a special tool?!
Yes. It's called a "crank puller". About $15. You'll also need a bottom bracket tool to remove the bottom bracket. It looks like kind of like a socket drive. About $20.

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Feb 28 2019 1:37pm

Bash1303 wrote:
Feb 28 2019 7:57am
Hello every one

The inner motor seems to have given upp :(
I manager to order a replacement that Will take some time.

My question is if i connect my old hub motor 36v 350w (hall sensor) to the controller. Will it run normal or i Will be damaging the controller?

I am running the open source firmware V 17

Best regards
No, the controller is very specialized for that motor, internal torque sensor, PAS, etc. You could use a KT controller that works well with hub motors. There is a version of open source firmware for that. But then you would need to change out everything else as well. Your best bet is to get a new motor for your TSDZ2. PSWpower sells them pretty cheap.

Bash1303   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bash1303 » Feb 28 2019 2:12pm

Rydon wrote:
Feb 28 2019 1:37pm


No, the controller is very specialized for that motor, internal torque sensor, PAS, etc. You could use a KT controller that works well with hub motors. There is a version of open source firmware for that. But then you would need to change out everything else as well. Your best bet is to get a new motor for your TSDZ2. PSWpower sells them pretty cheap.

Thank you for the advice Rydon.

Regards

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomtom50 » Feb 28 2019 4:44pm

Strider wrote:
Feb 27 2019 10:05am
I've read that the TSDZ2 motor is very fast on temperature.

Therefore, I was wondering if in the summer, with an outside temperature of 25 degrees, it is possible to cycle for a long time (30min) on 35km/h.

This on a flat road.

Does anyone have experience with this?
Use bikecalculator.com
I ran 80kg weight, 20kg bike, with MTB tires, 35kph requires 340 watts at the cranks.

ebike motors are about 80% efficient when operated at a good rpm. 80% efficiency means 80% of the electrical power into the motor goes out as shaft horsepower, 20% of the power is converted to heat, mostly in the motor windings.

340W is 80% of 425W, so 425W of electrical power is going into the motor. 20% of 425W is 85W being converted to heat at the motor. 85W is not so terrible. The motor is probably OK.

The power is very sensitive to speed. 40kph isn't much faster than 35kph, but crank power jumps from 340W to 465W.

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itsallwhite   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by itsallwhite » Feb 28 2019 5:23pm

cj11363 wrote:
Feb 28 2019 8:06am
itsallwhite wrote:
Feb 28 2019 4:52am
Another quick question - how do I remove the crank arms? I purchased a smaller chainring but don't know how to remove the crank arm. Do I need a special tool?!
Yes. It's called a "crank puller". About $15. You'll also need a bottom bracket tool to remove the bottom bracket. It looks like kind of like a socket drive. About $20.
Awesome I'll order one!, thank you
Bike 1: Giant Hybrid Steel Frame (old) with TSDZ2 48v 500w.
Bike 2: GT Sensor 2 full suspension mountain bike. Work in Progress - ready to 'electrify'!
House: 100% off grid - 5.6kw solar array with selectronics inverter and 24 Volt 1450 Ah BAE Gel battery Bank

sysrq   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Mar 01 2019 12:05am

Has anybody resolved the automatic shut down issue while riding without PAS (off mode)? Was unable to find anything related to automatic shut down in off mode on ebikes in general.

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 02 2019 7:47am

I am sharing pictures of the battery pack I built for using with TSDZ2.

I am using the most power density cells available on the market, the LG INR18650-M36 3600mAh - 10A.
Using this cells, my pack as 14S3P (14 cells in series and 3 cells in parallel) of 42 cells in total.

This pack has about 525 Wh and weighs only about 2.5 kgs (including the weight of BMS, connectors, etc). My girlfriend wants a light bicycle so I decided to use this cells/battery on his bicycle. Next I will do another for my bicycle and I will keep my older big packs (that use the same cells) to use when we do long rides like near or over 100 kms in a day.

I am using for the first time the chinese popular BMS with Bluetooth, the "Smart BMS with Bluetooth", that we can find in many online shops. This BMS would be very easy to develop firmware for if we want (used Arduino AVR microcontroller and popular battery management IC) but there is a lot of information about it, including the communication protocol.

I think I will need to limit on LCD3 the battery current to be 10 Amps, other way this cells may heat to much and damage quick but I will configure the BMS temperature sensors protection and I will keep a loop at the temperature to find the "max" average current for this cells in 3P.

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My girlfriend bicycle:
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Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

AF7JA   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AF7JA » Mar 02 2019 3:19pm

Okay, I now have the TSDZ2 drive installed and working. All I have done so far is a parking lot test.

What I am not clear on is how to set the speed limit on the motor.

I have the display in this video and I used it for setup. The issue is the Speed Screen. Instead of seeing a number, I only have a series of dashes. Pushing the plus and minus buttons does nothing. Does that mean that the speed limit was disabled at the factory?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlMZTA36elQ

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 02 2019 3:41pm

casainho wrote:
Mar 02 2019 7:47am
I am sharing pictures of the battery pack I built for using with TSDZ2.

I am using the most power density cells available on the market, the LG INR18650-M36 3600mAh - 10A.
Using this cells, my pack as 14S3P (14 cells in series and 3 cells in parallel) of 42 cells in total.

This pack has about 525 Wh and weighs only about 2.5 kgs
Great photos. Thank you for sharing your battery build. What is the total weight of the bike? I have a friend who bought a Giant e-Mountain bike but is struggling with the weight when lifting over fences so interested to see if 5kg can be saved using the TSDZ2

Cheers

sysrq   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Mar 02 2019 4:20pm

davidyinshanghai wrote:
Nov 21 2017 8:54pm
Throttle: Throttle is available for both, but it’s unnecessary with the TSDZ2. I didn’t use my throttle either with the BBS02. I preferred to engage the pedals. I found it uncomfortable using the throttle exclusively, since you are putting 100% of your weight on your seat. That is why ebikes need softer seats, full-suspension or seat shocks. I did use the BBS02 throttle sometimes when I didn’t have my feet in the right position and I needed to accelerate quickly.

That's the thing which is rarely talked about. Don't know about other ebike configurations but with tsdz2 it gets uncomfortable fairly quickly with the assist on. Had no other choice but to opt for selle anatomica and generic suspension seat post which can be ridden without assist and no sign of sit bone pain, but as soon as the assist is turned on the pain sets in. To avoid that will have to use the assist only on hills, headwinds and when exhausted.

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 02 2019 4:27pm

mctubster wrote:
Mar 02 2019 3:41pm
casainho wrote:
Mar 02 2019 7:47am
I am sharing pictures of the battery pack I built for using with TSDZ2.

I am using the most power density cells available on the market, the LG INR18650-M36 3600mAh - 10A.
Using this cells, my pack as 14S3P (14 cells in series and 3 cells in parallel) of 42 cells in total.

This pack has about 525 Wh and weighs only about 2.5 kgs
Great photos. Thank you for sharing your battery build. What is the total weight of the bike? I have a friend who bought a Giant e-Mountain bike but is struggling with the weight when lifting over fences so interested to see if 5kg can be saved using the TSDZ2

Cheers
I didn't weight the bike, but I guess is about 20kgs.
It is easy to calculate: bike original weight + TSDZ2 weight (including LCD cables, etc) + battery weight.

My bicycle is kind of cheap from Decathlon, so it is nothing especial about weight.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

bergerandfries   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bergerandfries » Mar 02 2019 9:52pm

itsallwhite wrote:
Feb 28 2019 4:41am
Thank you! I'll look in to using the custom firmware but maybe using the VLCD5/6 fork that Marco is created before purchasing a new display.
I think you mean qmarco. My TSDZ2 is coming from China now, so it will be three weeks or so before I can try it out, I think. Will be keeping an eye on the github repository:

https://github.com/qmarco/TSDZ2-Smart-E ... D6-display

Retrorockit   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Mar 03 2019 11:18am

I'm making progress on my TSDZ2 Trek navigator 400/ Nexus IGH 7 speed project. I had the TSD chainring cut down to 6.25" OD, and had the center cut out of an offset cruiser 44t chainring to 6" ID. All steel. Then had them welded together for a double offset chain ring. The chainline came out to 45.5mm. I had also made at thin steel cover for the wiring area, The inner chain plates were just touching it. The 73mm BB shell had already been trimmed until the TSD assy. touched the chain stay. The Nexus 7 requires a 47mm chainline so I needed some shims. Some people report using washers or round spacers. But there is an O ring on the flange which with the seal at the crank shaft keeps dirt/water out of the sprag area, so I decided to make a circular shim to maintain the seal there. Old CD blanks were useful for this. Basically the shimming not only adjusts the chainline but provides all the clearance at the wiring cover and the chainstay. One of the metal ears for the drive cover hits the chainstay in some positions and needed to be beveled on the back, so watch for this.

Mike-P   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Mike-P » Mar 03 2019 3:22pm

Hello, as a TSDZ2 user my experience has been that the cross chainstay bracket is too weak and bends so I ended up making a new one up. A few weeks back I stumbled across a web site selling TSDZ2 parts and one was a rubber gasket that apparently is now being fitted behind the stock chainwheel to provide extra insulation - having decided that one would be a good idea on mine I went to find the web site again and drew a complete blank - anyone have any idea whether such an item exists and if so where it can be purchased from.

Thanks

Mike

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Mar 03 2019 3:48pm

Retrorockit wrote:
Mar 03 2019 11:18am
I'm making progress on my TSDZ2 Trek navigator 400/ Nexus IGH 7 speed project. I had the TSD chainring cut down to 6.25" OD, and had the center cut out of an offset cruiser 44t chainring to 6" ID. All steel. Then had them welded together for a double offset chain ring. The chainline came out to 45.5mm. I had also made at thin steel cover for the wiring area, The inner chain plates were just touching it. The 73mm BB shell had already been trimmed until the TSD assy. touched the chain stay. The Nexus 7 requires a 47mm chainline so I needed some shims. Some people report using washers or round spacers. But there is an O ring on the flange which with the seal at the crank shaft keeps dirt/water out of the sprag area, so I decided to make a circular shim to maintain the seal there. Old CD blanks were useful for this. Basically the shimming not only adjusts the chainline but provides all the clearance at the wiring cover and the chainstay. One of the metal ears for the drive cover hits the chainstay in some positions and needed to be beveled on the back, so watch for this.
Thanks for the post. Some pictures would be nice. Having a hard time understanding exactly what you did.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Mar 03 2019 3:59pm

Mike-P wrote:
Mar 03 2019 3:22pm
Hello, as a TSDZ2 user my experience has been that the cross chainstay bracket is too weak and bends so I ended up making a new one up. A few weeks back I stumbled across a web site selling TSDZ2 parts and one was a rubber gasket that apparently is now being fitted behind the stock chainwheel to provide extra insulation - having decided that one would be a good idea on mine I went to find the web site again and drew a complete blank - anyone have any idea whether such an item exists and if so where it can be purchased from.
My experience on the chainstay bracket is that it flexes but has enough spring in the steel to stay tight. It will bend if over tightened. You could try some blue Loctite but with the lock washer, I have never needed it.

By "insulation" do you mean paint protection?

Alpharesearch   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Alpharesearch » Mar 03 2019 4:26pm

Rydon wrote:
Feb 24 2019 3:43am
mctubster wrote:
Feb 23 2019 3:12pm
Rydon wrote:
Feb 23 2019 3:12am

I have looked at this bike as well and their whole line is good value. You need to check how they tighten the belt. If the chainstays slide out to tighten you are good. However, if it uses the popular method of concentric bb rotating to tighten then it won't work. Even if you can clear the concentric BB these typically have a bolted flange under the bottom bracket that sticks out way to far for a mid-drive.

You may be ok on chainline. The N380 is 45.5 offset, the TSDZ2 is 50 minus the Gates flange offset of 3.1 gives you 46.9 at the cranks. So 1.4mm difference and Gates allows up to ~3mm. However, if you need to space the TSDZ2 out to clear the chainstay all bets are off.
Looks like standard front BB, and adjustable chainstay length based on photos in this review

https://cycletechreview.com/2018/bikes- ... nuum-onyx/
Nice catch. Won't have to buy one to find out. :wink: It really is a nice combination of features for a great price if you are looking for a city/commuter bike. Too bad it has the Trekking N380 groupset instead of the more robust Sportive. The Sportive is rated at 500 watts and the Trekking is rated at 250 watts so the Sportive would be better suited to the TSDZ2. That being said, however, I have run BBSHD 1000 watt motors on the regular Nuvinci N380 Trekking equivalent with no problems. The Techs at Nuvinci told me that they have only really had problems with people putting large >22T cogs on it and generating so much torque it cracked the case. Another source told me that the new Sportive version is beefed up and will take bursts of 1000 watts so I expect it will probably go well beyond that. Great little IGH's. Too bad they are not available on the aftermarket yet. Enviolo is only shipping them to branded manufacturers. You can however still buy Nuvinci branded N380's on eBay and Amazon.

Did you notice how many teeth the Priority bike has on the front Gates chainring and the rear cog?
Not OP, but Front Chainring is 50t Gates CDN and rear Cog is 24t Gates CDX. The belt is a Gates Carbon Drive with Centertrack CDN.

I'm new to ebikes and I'm musing with building one and the Priority bike peeked my intrest. If this worked out I believe this would make a very nice ebike.

I noticed there are CDB adapters, would any 50t CDN work and can the belt be reused?

Btw I did contact the manufacturer regarding using the bike as a donor and here was there response:
We haven't tested the bike as an e-bike and thus can't support any conversions to one, from a liability perspective, I hope you understand. We recommend buying a purpose built e-bike so that you can be sure it's safe and designed to all work together. Any type of conversion would void the warranty. You can find a detailed spec list of the Onyx here​.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1245/ ... 1539273292

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Mar 03 2019 7:51pm

Alpharesearch wrote:
Mar 03 2019 4:26pm
I noticed there are CDB adapters, would any 50t CDN work and can the belt be reused?
I believe the Gates goes on a 130BCD spyder. Get one of those for the TSDZ2 and it might just all work with the same belt and cog. If you do it, keep us posted. Looks pretty sweet!

Retrorockit   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Mar 03 2019 9:02pm

Rydon wrote:
Mar 03 2019 3:48pm
Retrorockit wrote:
Mar 03 2019 11:18am
I'm making progress on my TSDZ2 Trek navigator 400/ Nexus IGH 7 speed project. I had the TSD chainring cut down to 6.25" OD, and had the center cut out of an offset cruiser 44t chainring to 6" ID. All steel. Then had them welded together for a double offset chain ring. The chainline came out to 45.5mm. I had also made at thin steel cover for the wiring area, The inner chain plates were just touching it. The 73mm BB shell had already been trimmed until the TSD assy. touched the chain stay. The Nexus 7 requires a 47mm chainline so I needed some shims. Some people report using washers or round spacers. But there is an O ring on the flange which with the seal at the crank shaft keeps dirt/water out of the sprag area, so I decided to make a circular shim to maintain the seal there. Old CD blanks were useful for this. Basically the shimming not only adjusts the chainline but provides all the clearance at the wiring cover and the chainstay. One of the metal ears for the drive cover hits the chainstay in some positions and needed to be beveled on the back, so watch for this.
Thanks for the post. Some pictures would be nice. Having a hard time understanding exactly what you did.
I've got some photos up at the build thread.
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/ma ... z2-project
Might have to wait for them a little their spam filter seems to be on high alert today.
I ended up not using the plastic sealing washers. The holes were too close to the edge. I used washers to space the hub out like veryone else, and put a much thicker o ring in the gap to keep it sealed up.

Mike-P   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Mike-P » Mar 04 2019 1:23pm

Rydon wrote:
Mar 03 2019 3:59pm
By "insulation" do you mean paint protection?
No - what the web page, if only I could find it again, showed was what I took to be a rubber part that had the fixing holes in it to allow the spiders bolts to pass through and was stated as being as fitted to the latest TDSZ2s

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Mar 05 2019 1:32pm

Mike-P wrote:
Mar 04 2019 1:23pm
Rydon wrote:
Mar 03 2019 3:59pm
By "insulation" do you mean paint protection?
No - what the web page, if only I could find it again, showed was what I took to be a rubber part that had the fixing holes in it to allow the spiders bolts to pass through and was stated as being as fitted to the latest TDSZ2s
I think I understand the purpose of the part you're refering to.
The TSDZ2 has a step out in the flange from where the bolts go. This indexes the flange to center it. But it also has an O ring on the face to seal the bearing area from water. If you space the flange out to adjust the chainline then the seal is broken there. A rubber/plastic spacer would restore the sealing of that area. I ended up uisng 1.5mm metal washers to adjust my chainline and installed a rubber O ring that was thicker than the washers to restore the sealing. Maybe it replaced the O ring on the face of the flange on later versions? It would be the proper way to adjust the chainline to the outside.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Mike-P » Mar 05 2019 1:52pm

Retrorockit wrote:
Mar 05 2019 1:32pm
I think I understand the purpose of the part you're refering to.
The TSDZ2 has a step out in the flange from where the bolts go. This indexes the flange to center it. But it also has an O ring on the face to seal the bearing area from water. If you space the flange out to adjust the chainline then the seal is broken there. A rubber/plastic spacer would restore the sealing of that area. I ended up uisng 1.5mm metal washers to adjust my chainline and installed a rubber O ring that was thicker than the washers to restore the sealing. Maybe it replaced the O ring on the face of the flange on later versions? It would be the proper way to adjust the chainline to the outside.
That's the idea to try out alternative chainwheels but with some protection that is currently afforded by the fitted chainwheel. The web site selling them must be out there somewhere...

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Mar 05 2019 4:44pm

I'm in the US and these drives are fairly unknown here so I can't help you with parts sources. But I just used metal washers on the bolts, and installed a thick O ring in the stepped area. About 50% thicker than the washers.
If you have a 68mm BB maybe you could just shim the whole motor out at the BB shell.

hefest   10 W

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TSDZ2 and chainstay clearance

Post by hefest » Mar 06 2019 4:44am

I'm not sure if TSDZ2 will fit my frame because of the chainstay clearance.
At the moment i have 38T (19T at back) with hebie changlider and TSDZ with 42T chainring on the way.
Couldn't find gear reduction housing diameter. Any info is welcome.

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