New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Narcoleptic   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Narcoleptic » Mar 24 2019 10:55am

Hi all!

Have not read every page of this very meaty thread, but searched quite a bit for posts related to my problem and checked other resources like wiki. Would now like to ask the community for pointers to fix my system.

A few months back i got help from someone that have mounted, modified and maintained a few of these motors to put one on my bike. I choose a 36V/350W from PSW Power, without foot brake, and VLCD-5 350W (handlebar) controller.

This person advised - and helped - me to replace the controller (in the motor) with a 48V(6-pin) version and combine it with a 48V battery to be able to reach higher cadences. I am a reasonably heavy guy and have creaky old knees i want to save for more fun things than commuting. ;p

It is now mounted on a bike with Shimano Nexus 8 hub and Shimano Roller brakes.
I did not get brake handles for the motor. Shift for gears is included in right breaking handle.
We did not install any other brake sensors.

Unfortunately the person helping me install the system quickly got tired of helping as initial problems persisted (and new arose). The advice given was “google it”, and there is nobody in my town fixing these motors professionally, so here i am.

The bike have been used less than ten times, in reasonably cold (and sometimes wet) winter conditions, but mostly just stored indoors. I have been climbing some hills (a few minutes at the time at the most) and have taken care to not bike to “hard”, usually using assist level 2 or 3 and taking it easy, using the gears to avoid low cadence and hight forces on the pedals. I weigh just over 100 kg and the bike + stuff may approach 40 more, tops.

At first all seemed fine mechanically. But soon the pedals started slipping/clicking in a way similar to in this video. Just.. not quite. Onset of this was not connected to any single incident afaict.

The clicking sounds are not constant during slipping as i video, but more one/a few sounds as the pedal “loses grip”, then mostly quiet for anything from maybe 90 degrees to a few full revolutions before the pedals “catches on again”. I cannot see how this could be the chain slipping really? It also sounds more "plasticky/tinny" than a chains slipping (or sound in video).

Slipping happens more often when riding with motor off, and then more often with more force on pedals. With motor on there seem little correlation with force on pedals. However taking force off pedals to change gears and then putting force on again seem to provoke it more often than other things - motor on or off.

Sometimes i can ride for a few minutes with no slipping, including moderate hills, but once it starts for a session the bike quickly becomes impossible to ride very usefully.

I haven’t been able to provoke a slip in standstill as in video, but haven't been pushing it to any extremes either.

Now, someone said that slipping both with motor on and off can hint at problem with torque sensor, someone else said too tight chain can cause this (so we loosened it slightly which worked - for a few minutes...) while the video above seem to suggest broken bearing in this gear (or possibly grease having gotten into it) - and lastly maybe that blue nylon gear could be the culprit?

Or something entirely different i have no clue about? I am neither a mechanic or electrician, but am reasonably handy and can get some help.

So - my main question is how to diagnose the problem to identify a fix. Any suggestions much appreciated!

Some other things i gleaned from the thread:

Is it correct that the 36V motor - with original controller - works with 48V battery, so that it was not necessary to replace the controller to begin with - opening the motor (Voiding warranty. Maybe breaking something in the process..)?

How much of a problem is overheating when running a 36V motor with 48V battery? I am heavy and prefer assist level 3 as i said, generally stay roughly within the EU legal 25km/h, and live in a climate where i may be biking in anything from -10 to +30C (90ish F) and don’t go up mountains, but sometimes hills in town that are maybe max 7 degrees gradient for up to a few hundred meters.

Should i worry. Any way to mitigate risks?

Connected to this - should i install some sort of aftermarket brake sensors? Like magnetic one's? I got the recommendation to skip this, and simply thought “well, ill stop pedaling when braking, and the motor should then stop assisting” but maybe there is more to it?

If yes, what should i get and where do i buy it?

One thing that have never worked is the walk assists (which should give power up to 6km/h when holding “i” if i understand correctly. This is a pity, since i have found it to be nifty way of starting other ebikes i have used, especially uphill, without putting too much force on the pedals (risking to break the axle, as i understand).

Any thoughts on this? Just a broken button, or what?

Anything else i should look into?

Thanks in advance!

/Narco

casainho   1.21 GW

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Posts: 3507
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 24 2019 12:17pm

Narcoleptic wrote:
Mar 24 2019 10:55am
Hi all!

Have not read every page of this very meaty thread, but searched quite a bit for posts related to my problem and checked other resources like wiki. Would now like to ask the community for pointers to fix my system.

A few months back i got help from someone that have mounted, modified and maintained a few of these motors to put one on my bike. I choose a 36V/350W from PSW Power, without foot brake, and VLCD-5 350W (handlebar) controller.

This person advised - and helped - me to replace the controller (in the motor) with a 48V(6-pin) version and combine it with a 48V battery to be able to reach higher cadences. I am a reasonably heavy guy and have creaky old knees i want to save for more fun things than commuting. ;p

It is now mounted on a bike with Shimano Nexus 8 hub and Shimano Roller brakes.
I did not get brake handles for the motor. Shift for gears is included in right breaking handle.
We did not install any other brake sensors.

Unfortunately the person helping me install the system quickly got tired of helping as initial problems persisted (and new arose). The advice given was “google it”, and there is nobody in my town fixing these motors professionally, so here i am.

The bike have been used less than ten times, in reasonably cold (and sometimes wet) winter conditions, but mostly just stored indoors. I have been climbing some hills (a few minutes at the time at the most) and have taken care to not bike to “hard”, usually using assist level 2 or 3 and taking it easy, using the gears to avoid low cadence and hight forces on the pedals. I weigh just over 100 kg and the bike + stuff may approach 40 more, tops.

At first all seemed fine mechanically. But soon the pedals started slipping/clicking in a way similar to in this video. Just.. not quite. Onset of this was not connected to any single incident afaict.

The clicking sounds are not constant during slipping as i video, but more one/a few sounds as the pedal “loses grip”, then mostly quiet for anything from maybe 90 degrees to a few full revolutions before the pedals “catches on again”. I cannot see how this could be the chain slipping really? It also sounds more "plasticky/tinny" than a chains slipping (or sound in video).

Slipping happens more often when riding with motor off, and then more often with more force on pedals. With motor on there seem little correlation with force on pedals. However taking force off pedals to change gears and then putting force on again seem to provoke it more often than other things - motor on or off.

Sometimes i can ride for a few minutes with no slipping, including moderate hills, but once it starts for a session the bike quickly becomes impossible to ride very usefully.

I haven’t been able to provoke a slip in standstill as in video, but haven't been pushing it to any extremes either.

Now, someone said that slipping both with motor on and off can hint at problem with torque sensor, someone else said too tight chain can cause this (so we loosened it slightly which worked - for a few minutes...) while the video above seem to suggest broken bearing in this gear (or possibly grease having gotten into it) - and lastly maybe that blue nylon gear could be the culprit?

Or something entirely different i have no clue about? I am neither a mechanic or electrician, but am reasonably handy and can get some help.

So - my main question is how to diagnose the problem to identify a fix. Any suggestions much appreciated!

Some other things i gleaned from the thread:

Is it correct that the 36V motor - with original controller - works with 48V battery, so that it was not necessary to replace the controller to begin with - opening the motor (Voiding warranty. Maybe breaking something in the process..)?

How much of a problem is overheating when running a 36V motor with 48V battery? I am heavy and prefer assist level 3 as i said, generally stay roughly within the EU legal 25km/h, and live in a climate where i may be biking in anything from -10 to +30C (90ish F) and don’t go up mountains, but sometimes hills in town that are maybe max 7 degrees gradient for up to a few hundred meters.

Should i worry. Any way to mitigate risks?

Connected to this - should i install some sort of aftermarket brake sensors? Like magnetic one's? I got the recommendation to skip this, and simply thought “well, ill stop pedaling when braking, and the motor should then stop assisting” but maybe there is more to it?

If yes, what should i get and where do i buy it?

One thing that have never worked is the walk assists (which should give power up to 6km/h when holding “i” if i understand correctly. This is a pity, since i have found it to be nifty way of starting other ebikes i have used, especially uphill, without putting too much force on the pedals (risking to break the axle, as i understand).

Any thoughts on this? Just a broken button, or what?

Anything else i should look into?

Thanks in advance!

/Narco
The issue about skipping is most probably the clutch on the main gear. Just buy a new one and replace the faulty one. Also, buy a spare plastic gear in the case you will need later.

Install the magnetic brake sensors and also our OpenSource firmware, with the motor temperature sensor.

If you don't mind to wait and deal with a chinese seller you can buy on pswpower.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Mike-P   10 mW

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Joined: Mar 03 2019 3:16pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Mike-P » Mar 24 2019 12:37pm

Grand idea today was to fit the new chainring combo so crank puller tightened in place and then the releasing bolt turned and the puller came back out of the crank, the crank completely dethreaded :evil: Anyone any ideas of how to get the crank off? Have the stock chainring with solid chainring guard on it.

Waynemarlow   100 W

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Posts: 234
Joined: Jul 09 2016 7:22am
Location: Bucks, England

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Mar 24 2019 1:21pm

Narcoleptic wrote:
Mar 24 2019 10:55am
Hi all!


At first all seemed fine mechanically. But soon the pedals started slipping/clicking in a way similar to in this video. Just.. not quite. Onset of this was not connected to any single incident afaict.

The clicking sounds are not constant during slipping as i video, but more one/a few sounds as the pedal “loses grip”, then mostly quiet for anything from maybe 90 degrees to a few full revolutions before the pedals “catches on again”. I cannot see how this could be the chain slipping really? It also sounds more "plasticky/tinny" than a chains slipping (or sound in video).
Are you sure its not the freehub pawls in the rear hub and nothing to do with the motor. The freehub pawls when a bit worn or with incorrect grease in colder conditions will slip in a more severe way than the motor main bearing as in they will rotate a full half turn and then once the weight is eased off the pedal, they will re-engage. They also are good one minute and then totally US the next.

Easiest way to diagnose is to fit the rear wheel to another bike and see if it still persists.
Last edited by Waynemarlow on Mar 24 2019 1:30pm, edited 1 time in total.

Waynemarlow   100 W

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Posts: 234
Joined: Jul 09 2016 7:22am
Location: Bucks, England

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Mar 24 2019 1:27pm

Mike-P wrote:
Mar 24 2019 12:37pm
Grand idea today was to fit the new chainring combo so crank puller tightened in place and then the releasing bolt turned and the puller came back out of the crank, the crank completely dethreaded :evil: Anyone any ideas of how to get the crank off? Have the stock chainring with solid chainring guard on it.
Once the threads are stripped you are in real problems. Try putting a hammer face or weight on one side of the crank and then hit the other side with a sharp blow, sort of like you are trying to " sandwich" the crank. If possible have someone hold the weight and then use a brass bar and hammer on the other to prevent damaging the crank to much. Sometimes gently heating the crank with a hair dryer will help as well as the Ali expands faster than the inner steel bottom bracket. Just remember you are trying to " shock " the taper and not trying to drive the bottom bracket through the crank

Waynemarlow   100 W

100 W
Posts: 234
Joined: Jul 09 2016 7:22am
Location: Bucks, England

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Mar 24 2019 1:33pm

Hi, my rear hub pawls have just expired with the extra loading of the motor and human combo. Has anyone any experience with a Nexus 8 speed hub or something similar as an alternative option ? Rohloff's are way to expensive, any ideas ?

knutselmaaster   100 W

100 W
Posts: 259
Joined: Apr 05 2014 6:50am
Location: near Paris, France

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Mar 24 2019 2:33pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Mar 24 2019 1:33pm
Hi, my rear hub pawls have just expired with the extra loading of the motor and human combo. Has anyone any experience with a Nexus 8 speed hub or something similar as an alternative option ? Rohloff's are way to expensive, any ideas ?
This happens when one shifts under load. Rolhoffs, NuVinci and even classic derailleurs don't like it neither, so whatever your choose is, you should change the way you use the bike. Release pressure on the pedals before you shift, anticipate your shifting. There is some delay from the moment one releases pressure on the pedals and the moment the motor powers down, patience is the key word here. This is the big flaw of any central motor but some power down quicker than others.

knutselmaaster   100 W

100 W
Posts: 259
Joined: Apr 05 2014 6:50am
Location: near Paris, France

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Mar 24 2019 2:36pm

Narcoleptic wrote:
Mar 24 2019 10:55am
Hi all!

Have not read every page of this very meaty thread, but searched quite a bit for posts related to my problem and checked other resources like wiki. Would now like to ask the community for pointers to fix my system.

A few months back i got help from someone that have mounted, modified and maintained a few of these motors to put one on my bike. I choose a 36V/350W from PSW Power, without foot brake, and VLCD-5 350W (handlebar) controller.

This person advised - and helped - me to replace the controller (in the motor) with a 48V(6-pin) version and combine it with a 48V battery to be able to reach higher cadences. I am a reasonably heavy guy and have creaky old knees i want to save for more fun things than commuting. ;p

It is now mounted on a bike with Shimano Nexus 8 hub and Shimano Roller brakes.
I did not get brake handles for the motor. Shift for gears is included in right breaking handle.
We did not install any other brake sensors.

Unfortunately the person helping me install the system quickly got tired of helping as initial problems persisted (and new arose). The advice given was “google it”, and there is nobody in my town fixing these motors professionally, so here i am.

The bike have been used less than ten times, in reasonably cold (and sometimes wet) winter conditions, but mostly just stored indoors. I have been climbing some hills (a few minutes at the time at the most) and have taken care to not bike to “hard”, usually using assist level 2 or 3 and taking it easy, using the gears to avoid low cadence and hight forces on the pedals. I weigh just over 100 kg and the bike + stuff may approach 40 more, tops.

At first all seemed fine mechanically. But soon the pedals started slipping/clicking in a way similar to in this video. Just.. not quite. Onset of this was not connected to any single incident afaict.

The clicking sounds are not constant during slipping as i video, but more one/a few sounds as the pedal “loses grip”, then mostly quiet for anything from maybe 90 degrees to a few full revolutions before the pedals “catches on again”. I cannot see how this could be the chain slipping really? It also sounds more "plasticky/tinny" than a chains slipping (or sound in video).

Slipping happens more often when riding with motor off, and then more often with more force on pedals. With motor on there seem little correlation with force on pedals. However taking force off pedals to change gears and then putting force on again seem to provoke it more often than other things - motor on or off.

Sometimes i can ride for a few minutes with no slipping, including moderate hills, but once it starts for a session the bike quickly becomes impossible to ride very usefully.

I haven’t been able to provoke a slip in standstill as in video, but haven't been pushing it to any extremes either.

Now, someone said that slipping both with motor on and off can hint at problem with torque sensor, someone else said too tight chain can cause this (so we loosened it slightly which worked - for a few minutes...) while the video above seem to suggest broken bearing in this gear (or possibly grease having gotten into it) - and lastly maybe that blue nylon gear could be the culprit?

Or something entirely different i have no clue about? I am neither a mechanic or electrician, but am reasonably handy and can get some help.

So - my main question is how to diagnose the problem to identify a fix. Any suggestions much appreciated!

Some other things i gleaned from the thread:

Is it correct that the 36V motor - with original controller - works with 48V battery, so that it was not necessary to replace the controller to begin with - opening the motor (Voiding warranty. Maybe breaking something in the process..)?

How much of a problem is overheating when running a 36V motor with 48V battery? I am heavy and prefer assist level 3 as i said, generally stay roughly within the EU legal 25km/h, and live in a climate where i may be biking in anything from -10 to +30C (90ish F) and don’t go up mountains, but sometimes hills in town that are maybe max 7 degrees gradient for up to a few hundred meters.

Should i worry. Any way to mitigate risks?

Connected to this - should i install some sort of aftermarket brake sensors? Like magnetic one's? I got the recommendation to skip this, and simply thought “well, ill stop pedaling when braking, and the motor should then stop assisting” but maybe there is more to it?

If yes, what should i get and where do i buy it?

One thing that have never worked is the walk assists (which should give power up to 6km/h when holding “i” if i understand correctly. This is a pity, since i have found it to be nifty way of starting other ebikes i have used, especially uphill, without putting too much force on the pedals (risking to break the axle, as i understand).

Any thoughts on this? Just a broken button, or what?

Anything else i should look into?

Thanks in advance!

/Narco
Putting in a 48v controller to use it with a 48v battery doesn't have a big influence on max pedal cadence. One should use a 48v battery on a 36v controller (with modified firmware) for that.

knutselmaaster   100 W

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Posts: 259
Joined: Apr 05 2014 6:50am
Location: near Paris, France

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Mar 24 2019 2:40pm

Mike-P wrote:
Mar 24 2019 12:37pm
Grand idea today was to fit the new chainring combo so crank puller tightened in place and then the releasing bolt turned and the puller came back out of the crank, the crank completely dethreaded :evil: Anyone any ideas of how to get the crank off? Have the stock chainring with solid chainring guard on it.
Find a tool like this:
images.jpeg
images.jpeg (3.54 KiB) Viewed 735 times
Don't hammer, you will break things, especially when you're an inexperienced mechanic.
Replacing the damaged parts will cost you more money (and effort) than buying the right tool!

Mike-P   10 mW

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Posts: 23
Joined: Mar 03 2019 3:16pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Mike-P » Mar 24 2019 3:20pm

knutselmaaster wrote:
Mar 24 2019 2:40pm
Find a tool like this:
images.jpeg
Thanks
Picked up a gear puller from local car/bike shop but its too thick to fit between the crank and chainring guard so will try trimming it although I suspect that may weaken it too much. Have noticed this one
https://www.amazon.com/Custom-Accessori ... B000FK5IBG
which I might get if the other fails

Waynemarlow   100 W

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Posts: 234
Joined: Jul 09 2016 7:22am
Location: Bucks, England

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Mar 24 2019 4:33pm

knutselmaaster wrote:
Mar 24 2019 2:33pm
Waynemarlow wrote:
Mar 24 2019 1:33pm
Hi, my rear hub pawls have just expired with the extra loading of the motor and human combo. Has anyone any experience with a Nexus 8 speed hub or something similar as an alternative option ? Rohloff's are way to expensive, any ideas ?
This happens when one shifts under load. Rolhoffs, NuVinci and even classic derailleurs don't like it neither, so whatever your choose is, you should change the way you use the bike. Release pressure on the pedals before you shift, anticipate your shifting. There is some delay from the moment one releases pressure on the pedals and the moment the motor powers down, patience is the key word here. This is the big flaw of any central motor but some power down quicker than others.
Always back pedal slightly to deactivate the motor when changing on anything with any torque needed. This was an old unit off a bike wheel I had laying around, was definitely of an unknown vintage.

Waynemarlow   100 W

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Posts: 234
Joined: Jul 09 2016 7:22am
Location: Bucks, England

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Mar 24 2019 4:39pm

knutselmaaster wrote:
Mar 24 2019 2:36pm
Putting in a 48v controller to use it with a 48v battery doesn't have a big influence on max pedal cadence. One should use a 48v battery on a 36v controller (with modified firmware) for that.
I'm pretty sure that is not correct, all advice is to run a 36 motor on a 48 volt battery to get a higher cadence. Early adopters replaced the controller to a 48 volt unit so that the battery upper limit voltage wouldn't be exceeded. We have since discovered that the control unit is identical on all units and simply by changing the voltage limits by software on the control unit, you can pick whichever battery you want.

The Wiki set up by Casainho and others details this nicely, look it up to get the best info.

knutselmaaster   100 W

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Posts: 259
Joined: Apr 05 2014 6:50am
Location: near Paris, France

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Mar 24 2019 4:40pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Mar 24 2019 4:39pm
knutselmaaster wrote:
Mar 24 2019 2:36pm
Putting in a 48v controller to use it with a 48v battery doesn't have a big influence on max pedal cadence. One should use a 48v battery on a 36v controller (with modified firmware) for that.
I'm pretty sure that is not correct, all advice is to run a 36 motor on a 48 volt battery to get a higher cadence. Early adopters replaced the controller to a 48 volt unit so that the battery upper limit voltage wouldn't be exceeded. We have since discovered that the control unit is identical on all units and simply by changing the voltage limits by software on the control unit, you can pick whichever battery you want.

The Wiki set up by Casainho and others details this nicely, look it up to get the best info.
Indeed, my wrong!
It is the motor windings that define the rotation speed.
The controllers on the 36v and 48v are the same, only the firmware is different.
So switching from a 36v to a 48 controller has exactly the same result as changing the firmware.

Sorry about my mistake!

Retrorockit   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Mar 24 2019 8:31pm

This is for narcoleptic. I firgot to use the quote tool.

I'm having the same problem with my Nexus IGH and the motor isn't connected to power yet.
The shifter on the IGH needs to be properly adjusted. There are a couple colored dots on the shift mechanism at the hub end. On the IGH 7 they need to line up with each other in gear 4. IGH 8 IDK which gear.
Sticking cables, piched cable housings, shifters clamped too tight, or on a bend in the handlebars.
Mine is about 14 years old and sat around a lot so problems aren't unexpected really. They're supposed to have the oil changed annualy also. If it's not adjusted, or the cables isn't indexing properly it ends up between gears.

tomtom50   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomtom50 » Mar 25 2019 12:02am

Waynemarlow wrote:
Mar 24 2019 1:33pm
Hi, my rear hub pawls have just expired with the extra loading of the motor and human combo. Has anyone any experience with a Nexus 8 speed hub or something similar as an alternative option ? Rohloff's are way to expensive, any ideas ?
I just built a Shimano Nexus 8 wheel and tried it out. Everything worked as it should.

I used it two days and reinstalled the derailleur.

Shifting with an IGH means breaking stride, and especially on a hill you slow down. Shifting was slow and annoying, to the point I avoided shifting.

Some people really like internal gear hubs, so you might like it. I realized that I shift a lot, perhaps 100 times in a 10 mile ride. If you shift a lot it might not work out for you, it didn't for me.

Narcoleptic   10 µW

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Posts: 5
Joined: Jan 10 2019 10:56am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Narcoleptic » Mar 25 2019 1:09am

Wow, thanks guys! Much appreciated!

@casainho: Thx, my initial thinking is to replace the main gear.

In comments to YT video about doing this someone mention this problem could be due to grease leaking in from other part of motor and causing this. And in the video there sure is grease in there. If this is true for my motor as well changing the gear without getting rid of the grease would not fix it? So, should I first try to get rid of it? How?

How about replacing nylon gear with brass one? Pros and cons?

When it comes to magnetic brake sensors i haven't found any at PSW. Link to where to buy?

Also, will they help with temps somehow? I.e. is the motor still spinning - but just not engaging the drive chain - when resting on the pedals? But brake sensors actually cut the power and gives the motor some downtime to cool off?

Flashing firmware is somewhat intimidating tbh. May not go for that at this point in time.
Is there any other way of installing a simple temp meter/display maybe?

@Waynemarlow: The sound when slipping seem quite distinctly to come from the central hub/motor and i do not think the chain is going around when pedals slip, so no i suppose. But maybe im missing something? Chain and rear gear on hub are new, replaced when installing motor.

@Knusselmaaster: Ah! interesting! Did not know about delay after putting weight of pedals to shift gears (as i do of course) until motor cuts. How much of a delay are we talking? And how do one know? I probably need to change the way i bike a bit, especially climbing hills. Best advice?

@Waynemarlow: Ok, so either i would have to have flashed Firmware or changed controller to (one with) 48V version (firmware installed) to use 36V motor with 48V battery, and both would have given me higher cadence? And changing controller may have been simpler ans cheaper then and there, given flashing would require other gear and skills i gather?

@Retrorockit: Dunno, sound/feel is that slipping happens at the central hub. At first the cable was drawn between motor and frame - resulting in a somewhat hard bend and not beeing able to shift in to top gear. After moving it above frame this is ok.

Gear is adjusted as supposed to and shifting gears do not feel/sound different. Also slipping do not ONLY happen after shifting gears. To my mind all of this speak against the rear hub being the problem?

Will look into greasing, wich i have done on brakes, but not gears, and yes i have had the bike maybe 3 years.

@tomtom50: I do tend to shift quite a bit and have good habits of putting weight off pedals to do so, but it seems i need to take this delay in cutting motor power into consideration. Im guessing i will have to downshift before going uphill and stay with that gear to the top basically?
So, again, all tips on how to properly gauge the timing appreciated!

In connection to this does anyone have any tips regarding the walk assist - when holding "i" - not working? Can it be anything else than the button on the handlebar itself? As i mentioned i have used it on other e-bikes to get up to some speed before putting weight on pedals when having to start in a upward slope, maybe having to have stopped due to traffic.

Lastly, when ordering the 36V motor, 48V controller and 48V battery PSW gave me a lot of grief, first refusing to sell them to me and then saying that warranty would be void if i used them together. The motor have only been opened from the side, so seals are intact, but controller inside is 48V version. Is it likely that the problems i have is due to changing controller (or just having opened the motor, and maybe botched the reassembly somehow?) Or would it be reasonable to expect support for it? People seem to have had different experiences in similar situations.

Cheers! :)

/Narco

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Mar 25 2019 1:46am

Narcoleptic wrote:
Mar 25 2019 1:09am
When it comes to magnetic brake sensors i haven't found any at PSW. Could you link to something?
...
In connection to this does anyone have any tips regarding the walk assist - when holding "i" - not working? Can it be anything else than the button on the handlebar itself? As i mentioned i have used it on other e-bikes to get up to some speed before putting weight on pedals when having to start in a upward slope, maybe having to have stopped due to traffic.
If you got the brake levers with your motor it is easy to splice in any magnetic brake sensors. There are only 2 wires and they can be hooked up either way as the brake sensor just closes the circuit when the brakes are applied. If you switch to the FOS firmware you can use any of the bafang throttles and brake cutoff options - found here.

The "i" button does not initiate walk assist on the VLCD5. Hold down the "-" button. You must first enable the 6km walk assist function before you can use it. Perhaps that is where you saw the "i" button is used.

knutselmaaster   100 W

100 W
Posts: 259
Joined: Apr 05 2014 6:50am
Location: near Paris, France

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Mar 25 2019 2:05am

Nexus 8 adjust (dot align) is in 4th gear also.

About the refresh oil of these, Shimano recommend once a year indeed but it all depends on how many it is ridden and in what circumstances.
They sell the oil at a whopping €90 for a small tin so they are quite motivated to give this advice.
In my opinion, if it shifts as fast and easy as a new hub, all is fine.

With the high torque of a mid motor, sometimes the small (3) pawls inside the rear cog get stripped making the cog slip through at load.
Sometimes the spring clip that holds the rear cog in place gets delocated, with the same result.
If one rides too long with this, it will damage the hub!

mctubster   100 W

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Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 25 2019 2:43am

knutselmaaster wrote:
Mar 25 2019 2:05am
Nexus 8 adjust (dot align) is in 4th gear also.

About the refresh oil of these, Shimano recommend once a year indeed but it all depends on how many it is ridden and in what circumstances.
They sell the oil at a whopping €90 for a small tin so they are quite motivated to give this advice.
In my opinion, if it shifts as fast and easy as a new hub, all is fine.
I don't believe the Nexus 8 used oil lubrication. It is sealed with grease.

The Alfine 11 does use an oil bath ... Unless there is another Nexus 8 I am unaware of.

Personally I love Internally Geared Hubs (IGH). You soon learnt the tricks of changing under load. It various depending if 7, 8 or 11 speed. Some gear changes are sweet under load, others will let you change gears but only shift when you ease off and some are a no no and result in bad noises. You just need to plan a little like driving a manual car :)

Having said that they do loose a little power.

I'm just in love with the low maintenance. The ultimate of course is an IGH with Gates Centretrack Carbon drive. Nothing to lube. No oil grease on the outside of the bike :) There was talk of adding the TSDZ2 to a Nuvinci / Gates carbon drive combo earlier in the thread.

Cheers

knutselmaaster   100 W

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Posts: 259
Joined: Apr 05 2014 6:50am
Location: near Paris, France

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Mar 25 2019 2:56am

mctubster wrote:
Mar 25 2019 2:43am
knutselmaaster wrote:
Mar 25 2019 2:05am
Nexus 8 adjust (dot align) is in 4th gear also.

About the refresh oil of these, Shimano recommend once a year indeed but it all depends on how many it is ridden and in what circumstances.
They sell the oil at a whopping €90 for a small tin so they are quite motivated to give this advice.
In my opinion, if it shifts as fast and easy as a new hub, all is fine.
I don't believe the Nexus 8 used oil lubrication. It is sealed with grease.

The Alfine 11 does use an oil bath ... Unless there is another Nexus 8 I am unaware of.

Personally I love Internally Geared Hubs (IGH). You soon learnt the tricks of changing under load. It various depending if 7, 8 or 11 speed. Some gear changes are sweet under load, others will let you change gears but only shift when you ease off and some are a no no and result in bad noises. You just need to plan a little like driving a manual car :)

Having said that they do loose a little power.

I'm just in love with the low maintenance. The ultimate of course is an IGH with Gates Centretrack Carbon drive. Nothing to lube. No oil grease on the outside of the bike :) There was talk of adding the TSDZ2 to a Nuvinci / Gates carbon drive combo earlier in the thread.

Cheers
There is no oil bath inside the hub indeed.
What is ment with refresh oil:
- Open the hub
- Take out the complete insides
- Rince to clean (with special product) in a bath
- Put (special) lubricant on the pawls and sun gears
- reassemble

You can believe me, I'm a professional bike mechanic and have been @ Shimano just two weeks ago for the annual training. ;)

Narcoleptic   10 µW

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Joined: Jan 10 2019 10:56am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Narcoleptic » Mar 25 2019 3:53am

@ Rydon: No brake levers came with motor. Im looking for suggestions on what magnetic brake sensors compatible with VLCD5 to get (im in the EU) and some instruction on how to install them.

Anyone got link to good magnetic sensors for this? (Not planing on flashing Firmware atm.)

Ah, ok - think it was (incorrect) info somewhere online regarding walk assist then. Checked VLCD5 manual again and found kinda funky instructions on how to activate it. Can anyone decipher this: "Kept press button 3s in the neutral, enter the 6Km/h rotation motor, when selecting the open"? ;D

(found other thread where this walk assist is described as pretty useless (weak) btw. Is this correct?

-----

Another point. BEFORE adjusting the speed sensor i tended to get a blinking message on display. Reading manual (possible other than i have found before - none came with motor..) i now realize must have been "E2" ie. ERROR CODE 2 = "Motor hall fault or motor short circuit". Would this have been due to speed sensor being off, or something else?

v3po   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Jul 03 2018 1:57pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by v3po » Mar 25 2019 5:54am

I just ordered below 250W version:
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-4t-hkfj

I ordered the version with throttle & brakes just in case I want to install them in future and it was only $5 more.

Installation without them - is it as simple as not connecting them or is something needed software side?

casainho   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
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Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 25 2019 6:10am

I updated the wiki page with more information about the magnetic brake sensors, including a link for a shop: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ke-sensors
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

ri53hu   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 31
Joined: Apr 30 2018 3:56am
Location: Zlíňák

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ri53hu » Mar 25 2019 6:26am

Narcoleptic :
pro VLCD5 8pin conector SENZOR https://de.aliexpress.com/store/product ... 4d6fogHoqR :D

Narcoleptic   10 µW

10 µW
Posts: 5
Joined: Jan 10 2019 10:56am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Narcoleptic » Mar 25 2019 11:22am

casainho wrote:
Mar 25 2019 6:10am
I updated the wiki page with more information about the magnetic brake sensors, including a link for a shop: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ke-sensors
Thx man!

Just to check, my brakes are not hydraulic, i just have the integrated gear-shift/brake handle for the Nexus-8. Will this still work?

And did i get the main point of using the sensors right - that just resting on the pedals will not stop motor, hence brake sensors will result in more time (to cool)off for the motor?

Cheers,

/N

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