New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
rter   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by rter » Mar 28 2019 4:41pm

James Broadhurst wrote:
Mar 26 2019 7:25am
If somebody has recently bought a motor from PSW Power, would (s)he confirm that it is one of the new series? If fitted with a black coloured spider, rather than silver, is an indication that it is a new series.

I ask this because every single photo of the motor on PSW outlets shows a picture of the motor and not the chainring side so it’s impossible to tell and the last time I asked PSW I got a Chinese non-answer.

Many thanks.

27/03/19 They’ve now told me they are new version. Whereas I mean a new version they mean an unused just made version. The two are not the same motor.
I just bought a 48v/750w motor from them and the spider part is black.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New

Post by mctubster » Mar 28 2019 5:37pm

ashrambo wrote:
Mar 28 2019 1:19am
I made the cable with the lm35 sensor, I made two. I don't know if the arduino cable (dupont type) will be too thin. Must I use one thicker?
Thin is fine! The currents to power and sample are extremely low. Micro / milli amps. Just ensure your joins / connections are good.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 28 2019 5:55pm

rter wrote:
Mar 28 2019 4:41pm
James Broadhurst wrote:
Mar 26 2019 7:25am
If somebody has recently bought a motor from PSW Power, would (s)he confirm that it is one of the new series? If fitted with a black coloured spider, rather than silver, is an indication that it is a new series.

I ask this because every single photo of the motor on PSW outlets shows a picture of the motor and not the chainring side so it’s impossible to tell and the last time I asked PSW I got a Chinese non-answer.

Many thanks.

27/03/19 They’ve now told me they are new version. Whereas I mean a new version they mean an unused just made version. The two are not the same motor.
I just bought a 48v/750w motor from them and the spider part is black.
Careful of that assumption. I have a black spider from August 2018. I don't believe it is a new version of the motor - it has straight cut gears. Or is there something else to define "new version" of the motor?

Cheers

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 28 2019 6:07pm

Pedrito wrote:
Mar 28 2019 3:45pm
hello good night, I have a query, and found this forum
and I see that you understand enough and I am very lost, I want to mount a tsdz2 kit and I do not know which model will be right for me, the serious use for mountain with a lot of unevenness, if you could advise me I would really appreciate it, regards
There are only two hardware versions. 36V and 48V. The power output is defined in software only. 48V = more power with less losses. I would suggest the 48V motor for hill climbing.

Cheers

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 28 2019 6:28pm

hego wrote:
Mar 28 2019 7:03am
I have a problem with the speed wheel display.Not work. I revised many times the configuration and it seems well. The magnet and ese sensor speed are very close at the "arrow".I use the Y cable.
Try increasing the gap for the speed sensor and magnet. A big gap is required.
The power indicatión not work too. The walk asistance , temperature sensor , time, voltage battery, asistance selection... works.

I use the Casainho V.0.18 Firmware.

An other thing: when the software is ON , the rear wheel can´t spin back. Only forward....¿It´s normal?
Not sure what you mean "The power indicatión not work too"? There are a number of configurable options in the opensource firmware. Please be clearer what your issue is.

In the opensource firmware the motor is energised even at stop. Hence you feel resistance when pushing backwards. Turn off the system if pushing back more than a little. This is a known "feature" and is being worked on. There is testing happening now.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 28 2019 6:41pm

Hi all,

I would like to propose a reorg and simplification of the wiki, flashing instructions, faq and so on. I am prepared to commit a number of evenings to this. There was a great document published in this thread while back, I hope to contact the author and get permission to use this material plus most of what everyone else has submitted.

Is anyone else planning to do this? It will take me 1-2 weeks to complete. Any issues with me doing and owning. I would of course start with a framework and outline and get signoff from the casainho, sbridger, jbalat, leon927 and others.

I plan on a new repo in github and with agreement a swap over - unless there is a better cms to use?

Regards
Steve

Retrorockit   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Mar 28 2019 7:08pm

I finally did my wiring and rode it around some. Quite different than the BBSHD. Much tamer and simpler to ride. Mine is the base model 750W (USA rating), no throttle/brake switches. Mine happens to be almost silent.
Here's my build thread.
ttps://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/82828-trek-navigator-400-igh-tsdz2-project/page3

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 28 2019 8:14pm

Retrorockit wrote:
Mar 28 2019 7:08pm
I finally did my wiring and rode it around some. Quite different than the BBSHD. Much tamer and simpler to ride. Mine is the base model 750W (USA rating), no throttle/brake switches. Mine happens to be almost silent.
Here's my build thread.
ttps://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/82828-trek-navigator-400-igh-tsdz2-project/page3
Thank you for your link and build notes. I have a noisy TSDZ2 and might try the lottery if these silent ones actually exist. Would you able to record a short video on your phone and upload to youtube? Since you previously had a Bafang, I'm inclined to believe yours is almost silent but would still love to get a sense of how silent ;)

Thanks a lot
Steve

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 28 2019 11:59pm

mctubster wrote:
Mar 28 2019 6:41pm
I plan on a new repo in github and with agreement a swap over - unless there is a better cms to use?
I think is a good idea that approach. Then we can look and if we like, then swap over.

What I think users need is very detailed information, because most of them are not so experienced on electronics or such.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 29 2019 12:01am

mctubster wrote:
Mar 28 2019 8:14pm
Retrorockit wrote:
Mar 28 2019 7:08pm
I finally did my wiring and rode it around some. Quite different than the BBSHD. Much tamer and simpler to ride. Mine is the base model 750W (USA rating), no throttle/brake switches. Mine happens to be almost silent.
Here's my build thread.
ttps://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/82828-trek-navigator-400-igh-tsdz2-project/page3
Thank you for your link and build notes. I have a noisy TSDZ2 and might try the lottery if these silent ones actually exist. Would you able to record a short video on your phone and upload to youtube? Since you previously had a Bafang, I'm inclined to believe yours is almost silent but would still love to get a sense of how silent ;)

Thanks a lot
Steve
The most silent ones are the new version with helical main gear. Is yours the old version?
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Pedrito   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Pedrito » Mar 29 2019 1:20am

mctubster wrote:
Mar 28 2019 6:07pm
Pedrito wrote:
Mar 28 2019 3:45pm
hello good night, I have a query, and found this forum
and I see that you understand enough and I am very lost, I want to mount a tsdz2 kit and I do not know which model will be right for me, the serious use for mountain with a lot of unevenness, if you could advise me I would really appreciate it, regards
There are only two hardware versions. 36V and 48V. The power output is defined in software only. 48V = more power with less losses. I would suggest the 48V motor for hill climbing.

Cheers
and which model is better 500 or 750, I read that the 750 gets hotter, is it like this or am I confused?

diesersamat   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by diesersamat » Mar 29 2019 6:37am

Hello everyone, planning to buy TSDZ2 motor, to install it on my city cruiser. I checked the diameter and width of the bottom bracket, seems fine. But what do you think about the frame itself (attached photos), will it be easy to install the motor? Thank you!
IMG_20190328_164250.jpg
IMG_20190328_164250.jpg (150.39 KiB) Viewed 1158 times
IMG_20190328_164253.jpg
IMG_20190328_164253.jpg (153.15 KiB) Viewed 1158 times

hego   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hego » Mar 29 2019 7:32am

mctubster wrote:
Mar 28 2019 6:28pm
hego wrote:
Mar 28 2019 7:03am
I have a problem with the speed wheel display.Not work. I revised many times the configuration and it seems well. The magnet and ese sensor speed are very close at the "arrow".I use the Y cable.
Try increasing the gap for the speed sensor and magnet. A big gap is required.
The power indicatión not work too. The walk asistance , temperature sensor , time, voltage battery, asistance selection... works.

I use the Casainho V.0.18 Firmware.

An other thing: when the software is ON , the rear wheel can´t spin back. Only forward....¿It´s normal?
Not sure what you mean "The power indicatión not work too"? There are a number of configurable options in the opensource firmware. Please be clearer what your issue is.

In the opensource firmware the motor is energised even at stop. Hence you feel resistance when pushing backwards. Turn off the system if pushing back more than a little. This is a known "feature" and is being worked on. There is testing happening now.
Increasing the magnet/sensor gap? Is a few strange for me.Now te gap is very close, but I will try make more space between them...thank´s. (interesting)

The power assistence never display ( like teh speed) ... ever is zero!!! (I don´t try on rear trek, ever in the jig on walk asistence).I don´t know way.

I think you say thas is normal the resistence backwards of the rear wheel cause´ energized teh system.

Thank´s for all.

vailbiker   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by vailbiker » Mar 29 2019 10:55am

diesersamat wrote:
Mar 29 2019 6:37am
Hello everyone, planning to buy TSDZ2 motor, to install it on my city cruiser. I checked the diameter and width of the bottom bracket, seems fine. But what do you think about the frame itself (attached photos), will it be easy to install the motor? Thank you!IMG_20190328_164250.jpgIMG_20190328_164253.jpg
The clearance on the frame looks good from what I can see in the pictures. I think the TSDZ2 will work fine on that bike

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 29 2019 3:00pm

Pedrito wrote:
Mar 29 2019 1:20am

and which model is better 500 or 750, I read that the 750 gets hotter, is it like this or am I confused?
They are the same, there is no mechanic difference - all 48V versions are the same it is just the software programming (max current allowed). Yes the 750W will overheat faster if using at max current.

Buy the 750W if there is minimal price different, but be aware you wont be able to run at this power level for very long

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 29 2019 3:03pm

casainho wrote:
Mar 29 2019 12:01am

The most silent ones are the new version with helical main gear. Is yours the old version?
Yes straight cut gear ... however this youtube clip claims to show the new version and sounds very similar to mine. Do you have both versions and have any comments if there is a noise difference?


mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 29 2019 3:05pm

vailbiker wrote:
Mar 29 2019 10:55am
diesersamat wrote:
Mar 29 2019 6:37am
Hello everyone, planning to buy TSDZ2 motor, to install it on my city cruiser. I checked the diameter and width of the bottom bracket, seems fine. But what do you think about the frame itself (attached photos), will it be easy to install the motor? Thank you!IMG_20190328_164250.jpgIMG_20190328_164253.jpg
The clearance on the frame looks good from what I can see in the pictures. I think the TSDZ2 will work fine on that bike
Maybe a photo of the underside of the bottom bracket? Just double checking there are no big wields or plates there.

James Broadhurst   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by James Broadhurst » Mar 29 2019 4:56pm

mctubster wrote:
Mar 28 2019 5:55pm
Or is there something else to define "new version" of the motor?
Cheers
Apart from the black spider, helical cut main gear and spur gear, the plastic cover to the main gear had 3 attachment screws but now has 4 and is a much more solid affair altogether.

Regarding noise:
The power applied by the old firmware seemed to me to fall off depending on the crank position - quite logical in that the maximum torque is applied with the pedal between 12 and 3 o’clock - whereas the new firmware seems to carry that over the ‘dead’ areas resulting in a far smoother and quieter ride.

I use 29” with the new version and 28” on an old version motor. The tyre noise of the 29 is greater than the motor and the 28 is just noisy - not unpleasantly so compared with Shimano Steps motor.

I’m convinced that the new firmware effectively reduces noise. I’ve an old 36v 350w motor with a 48v battery which is just about finished conversion to the new firmware and I’ve pushed 500 watts through the motor which really felt quite smooth. The 29er has been converted and travelled over 200 miles and very pleased with it.

I’ve a theory about noise which is probably bs but like a guitar, the frame of a bike can act as a sounding box!

knutselmaaster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Mar 29 2019 5:06pm

James Broadhurst wrote:
Mar 29 2019 4:56pm
I’ve a theory about noise which is probably bs but like a guitar, the frame of a bike can act as a sounding box!
That certainly ain't no bs.
Some frames make some motors sound like there's something wrong.
It is all about resonance, just like a guitar indeed.

Pedrito   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Pedrito » Mar 30 2019 8:40am

then forgive but I'm not clear, for mountain use is 500w better than 750w because the 500w will heat less?

larryblee   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by larryblee » Mar 30 2019 9:05am

My TSDZ2 build is an Electra RatRod beach cruiser with the 350-watt coaster brake function and the VLCD 5.

The Nexus 3 speed IGH crapped out, so I have installed a Sturmey Archer RX-RC5 5 speed IGH with coaster brake.

I will be test driving this setup when the weather clears.

I chose the Sturmey Archer 5 speed hub because it is designed for heavy duty applications such as a mid-drive ebike.

Here are the specs:

Sturmey Archer RX-RC5

5 Speed Coaster Brake Rear Hub

FEATURES
• 5-Speed internal gear hub with gear ratio of 243%
• Gear steps of 25%, 25%, 25% and 25%
• Rotary gear selector without protrusions outside the frame
• Designed for heavy duty use
• A356 Aluminium hub shell
• Available with 32 or 36 spoke holes
• Compatible with 16 to 22 teeth sprocket
• Natural alloy or black finish
• Weight - 2400g

Gear Ratio
• Overall Range - 243%
• Gear 1 - 64% (Gear 2 - 25%)
• Gear 2 - 80% (Gear 3 - 25%)
• Gear 3 - 100% (Direct Drive)
• Gear 4 - 125% (Gear 3 + 25%)
• Gear 5 - 156% (Gear 4 + 25%)

I am curious to know if anyone else has installed the Sturmey Archer 5 speed IGH in conjunction with the TSDZ2 52-volt 750 watt version.

I will post a report of my test drive.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 30 2019 5:51pm

Pedrito wrote:
Mar 30 2019 8:40am
then forgive but I'm not clear, for mountain use is 500w better than 750w because the 500w will heat less?
500W will heat less, 48V will heat less. If you install the Opensource firmware you can completely customise the power consumption 200W, 500W, 700W - whatever you want, the actual hardware is the same

bergerandfries   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bergerandfries » Mar 30 2019 10:51pm

So I tried these female pins to make my own connector to the 6pin Higo motor controller male connector:
https://ppeci.com/index.php/products/de ... -crimp-pin

Frys Electronics in the USA sells these for $2.99
https://www.frys.com/product/2065216

It worked like a charm, and I used hot glue around and between the pins to hold the shape in place, being careful to not get hot glue on the Higo connector. I only did the 3 pins (omitted the RST pin) which makes an triangle shape. Higo connector pinout is here on the left side of the photo (black, brown, orange):
https://github.com/hurzhurz/tsdz2/blob/master/pinout.md

mmoncur   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mmoncur » Mar 30 2019 11:12pm

Hey everybody! Thanks for all the information you've provided on this motor. Can anyone answer two questions?

1. Has anyone had experience with both a TSDZ2 and a Bosch (Performance line) bike? I'm looking at two bikes, both Electra cruisers, both with Nexus 8 internal hubs: One that comes with a Bosch 250W and 36V battery, and one that I would convert with a 48V/750W TSDZ2. Is the TSDZ2 more powerful? Less powerful? More range? etc. -- I don't really care about top speed, just the ability to go 20MPH and go uphill.

2. I weigh 320lbs. I'm assuming the mid-drives would work well for me since I could run at a lower gear, sacrificing some speed for the ability to pull my weight. Has anyone had experience with a heavy rider on a TSDDZ2?

(Assume I have a bike whose wheels and frame can handle my weight, I already ride non-electric regularly so I know how to do that.)

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 30 2019 11:14pm

bergerandfries wrote:
Mar 30 2019 10:51pm
It worked like a charm, and I used hot glue around and between the pins to hold the shape in place, being careful to not get hot glue on the Higo connector. I only did the 3 pins (omitted the RST pin) which makes an triangle shape. Higo connector pinout is here on the left side of the photo (black, brown, orange):
https://github.com/hurzhurz/tsdz2/blob/master/pinout.md
Can we have a photo of your creation? I am updating / creating documentation and would appreciate it

Cheers

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