New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Mar 31 2019 12:23am

mmoncur wrote:
Mar 30 2019 11:12pm
Hey everybody! Thanks for all the information you've provided on this motor. Can anyone answer two questions?

1. Has anyone had experience with both a TSDZ2 and a Bosch (Performance line) bike? I'm looking at two bikes, both Electra cruisers, both with Nexus 8 internal hubs: One that comes with a Bosch 250W and 36V battery, and one that I would convert with a 48V/750W TSDZ2. Is the TSDZ2 more powerful? Less powerful? More range? etc. -- I don't really care about top speed, just the ability to go 20MPH and go uphill.

2. I weigh 320lbs. I'm assuming the mid-drives would work well for me since I could run at a lower gear, sacrificing some speed for the ability to pull my weight. Has anyone had experience with a heavy rider on a TSDDZ2?

(Assume I have a bike whose wheels and frame can handle my weight, I already ride non-electric regularly so I know how to do that.)
I have had both. The Bosch is more robust and actually lets you pull over 500 watts in bursts. You might consider a BBS02. It is much beefier, quieter and more powerful than either the TSDZ2 or the Bosch. Where the TSDZ2 is actually a 350-500 watt motor that will let you pull 750 watts for short periods of time, the BBS02 really is a 750-watt motor that will pull 1300 watts for short periods of time. Of course, you trade off the torque sensing and the Open Source firmware only runs on the TSDZ2. IMHO, the Open Source firmware is the main reason to get the TSDZ2.

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Mar 31 2019 12:29am

larryblee wrote:
Mar 30 2019 9:05am
I am curious to know if anyone else has installed the Sturmey Archer 5 speed IGH in conjunction with the TSDZ2 52-volt 750 watt version.
I put a Sturmey Archer 5 speed IGH on a 750-watt BBS02 build. We were really excited about it until it started slipping internally with less than 100 miles on it. We probably just got a bad unit but are replacing it with an N380. Let us know how yours goes.

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Mar 31 2019 12:38am

Does anyone know where to find the seal that goes in the old style TSDZ2 chainring spider? The part that seals between the spider and the spindle?

The problem is that all of the 3rd party spiders and chainrings use this type of seal. With the old version of chainring on the TSDZ2, you just took the seal off of the factory 110 BCD spider and moved it to your new spider or chainring. Now with all of the new motors shipping with the new improved seal and black (instead of silver) spider, there is no seal to move to the 3rd part spiders and chainrings. Does anyone know of a source or solution?

Specifically, 3rd party 104 BCD spiders, 130 BCD spiders, and 30T chainrings all use the old style seal.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 31 2019 12:54am

mctubster wrote:
Mar 29 2019 3:03pm
casainho wrote:
Mar 29 2019 12:01am

The most silent ones are the new version with helical main gear. Is yours the old version?
Yes straight cut gear ... however this youtube clip claims to show the new version and sounds very similar to mine. Do you have both versions and have any comments if there is a noise difference?

Can't judge looking at the video, I think videos are tricky on the sound.

I can tell you that I have exactly 2 same frame model bicycles with both versions of the motor and I can clearly ear the diference. Also, even with better motor, at near the max higher speeds I get the most noise.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 31 2019 4:11am

casainho wrote:
Mar 31 2019 12:54am

Can't judge looking at the video, I think videos are tricky on the sound.

I can tell you that I have exactly 2 same frame model bicycles with both versions of the motor and I can clearly ear the diference. Also, even with better motor, at near the max higher speeds I get the most noise.
Thank you for your thoughts casainho. I appreciate it. I will stay with my current motor and ignore the noise!

As a side note I have started on the structure of my documentation project in a Google doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UEY ... sp=sharing

Initially I was thinking of a single page with a decent nav bar on the left hand side. Anyway you can get an idea of what I am attempting. I will also use this guide to build an indexable FAQ

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 31 2019 4:28am

mctubster wrote:
Mar 31 2019 4:11am
casainho wrote:
Mar 31 2019 12:54am

Can't judge looking at the video, I think videos are tricky on the sound.

I can tell you that I have exactly 2 same frame model bicycles with both versions of the motor and I can clearly ear the diference. Also, even with better motor, at near the max higher speeds I get the most noise.
Thank you for your thoughts casainho. I appreciate it. I will stay with my current motor and ignore the noise!

As a side note I have started on the structure of my documentation project in a Google doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UEY ... sp=sharing

Initially I was thinking of a single page with a decent nav bar on the left hand side. Anyway you can get an idea of what I am attempting. I will also use this guide to build an indexable FAQ
Do you plan after move that information to the wiki??
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

thineight   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thineight » Mar 31 2019 5:29am

mctubster wrote:
Mar 31 2019 4:11am
casainho wrote:
Mar 31 2019 12:54am

Can't judge looking at the video, I think videos are tricky on the sound.

I can tell you that I have exactly 2 same frame model bicycles with both versions of the motor and I can clearly ear the diference. Also, even with better motor, at near the max higher speeds I get the most noise.
Thank you for your thoughts casainho. I appreciate it. I will stay with my current motor and ignore the noise!

As a side note I have started on the structure of my documentation project in a Google doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UEY ... sp=sharing

Initially I was thinking of a single page with a decent nav bar on the left hand side. Anyway you can get an idea of what I am attempting. I will also use this guide to build an indexable FAQ
Cool! In my opinion it worth to mention (or dedicate a paragraph) also the marcoq fork, that adapted the open source firmware to the stock displays. Practically you have the advantage of the open source without replacing the display.. but losing the information of wattage, temperature and so on.
MTB KTM Ultra 29" - City bike DAYTONA 28"

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 31 2019 1:49pm

casainho wrote:
Mar 31 2019 4:28am
Do you plan after move that information to the wiki??
Yes I will convert to GitHub wiki (markdown?) Once complete. I find editing in Google docs easier for me.

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Mar 31 2019 2:05pm

Rydon wrote:
Mar 31 2019 12:38am
Does anyone know where to find the seal that goes in the old style TSDZ2 chainring spider? The part that seals between the spider and the spindle?

The problem is that all of the 3rd party spiders and chainrings use this type of seal. With the old version of chainring on the TSDZ2, you just took the seal off of the factory 110 BCD spider and moved it to your new spider or chainring. Now with all of the new motors shipping with the new improved seal and black (instead of silver) spider, there is no seal to move to the 3rd part spiders and chainrings. Does anyone know of a source or solution?

Specifically, 3rd party 104 BCD spiders, 130 BCD spiders, and 30T chainrings all use the old style seal.
I had the same need and had to buy bulk, and they were more expensive than I wanted them to be! You should be able to contact TS or your supplier... or PM me if needed, and I can see what I can do for you.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Apr 01 2019 12:45am

thineight wrote:
Mar 31 2019 5:29am

Cool! In my opinion it worth to mention (or dedicate a paragraph) also the marcoq fork, that adapted the open source firmware to the stock displays. Practically you have the advantage of the open source without replacing the display.. but losing the information of wattage, temperature and so on.
Yes I will include a paragraph since the code is mostly based on this project. I will spend more time on it this evening. Thanks for mentioning

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 01 2019 1:59am

mctubster wrote:
Apr 01 2019 12:45am
thineight wrote:
Mar 31 2019 5:29am

Cool! In my opinion it worth to mention (or dedicate a paragraph) also the marcoq fork, that adapted the open source firmware to the stock displays. Practically you have the advantage of the open source without replacing the display.. but losing the information of wattage, temperature and so on.
Yes I will include a paragraph since the code is mostly based on this project. I will spend more time on it this evening. Thanks for mentioning
Go with mediawiki syntax as it let create a TOC but markdown do not.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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ashrambo   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ashrambo » Apr 01 2019 6:07am

hego wrote:
Feb 24 2019 11:14am
Casainho two questions:

a- The conexión into the controller for the termal sensor LM35 operation are diferents points of the usually documentaion. Where take the +5v?

b- There is any problem with this sensor when we use back the stock firmware. Any problem or interference?

Thank´s
I have the same question,

The connection point in the controller for the LM35 sensor is different from the "temp sensor" documentation in the wiki. Are the two points + 5v?

Is there a problem with this sensor when we use the original firmware? Any problem or interference?
TREK REMEDY MOTOR TSDZ2

hego   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hego » Apr 01 2019 1:00pm

I used the points of de doc on Wiki.It works very well.

I don´t know what happen with the stock (original) firmware. No idea. (????')

I solved the problem with de speed sensor: the hall transistor is death (was new but from China).

I use now an old "reed swicht" and a simple 10 kohm pull-up resistor.
Is OK.Problemless.

I´m waiting a new pick-up from China.A lottery.

Cheers
Last edited by hego on Apr 04 2019 8:12am, edited 1 time in total.

Retrorockit   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Apr 01 2019 6:55pm

mctubster wrote:
Mar 28 2019 8:14pm
Retrorockit wrote:
Mar 28 2019 7:08pm
I finally did my wiring and rode it around some. Quite different than the BBSHD. Much tamer and simpler to ride. Mine is the base model 750W (USA rating), no throttle/brake switches. Mine happens to be almost silent.
Here's my build thread.
ttps://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/82828-trek-navigator-400-igh-tsdz2-project/page3
Thank you for your link and build notes. I have a noisy TSDZ2 and might try the lottery if these silent ones actually exist. Would you able to record a short video on your phone and upload to youtube? Since you previously had a Bafang, I'm inclined to believe yours is almost silent but would still love to get a sense of how silent ;

Thanks a lot
Steve
Mine is probably a helical plastic geared version. I still have the BBSHD. The small frame Trek is for guests. So mild manners, and easy operation are key. I actually have to add another screw to the metal side cover. The wiring is pushing it out to touch the 1E8 chain. That's what you would hear if I made a tape. A slight gear buzz is all the motor does, and only at higher power. I did hedge my bets and get an 8 speed Nexus IGH. I haven't decided whether to replace the 7 with it and sell that, or make another 8 speed wheelset (24x2.5 tires). My comment that it was almost silent was before I raised the speed limit fron 25 to 40kph. But still nothing to complain about.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 01 2019 10:57pm

ashrambo wrote:
Apr 01 2019 6:07am
hego wrote:
Feb 24 2019 11:14am
Casainho two questions:

a- The conexión into the controller for the termal sensor LM35 operation are diferents points of the usually documentaion. Where take the +5v?

b- There is any problem with this sensor when we use back the stock firmware. Any problem or interference?

Thank´s
I have the same question,

The connection point in the controller for the LM35 sensor is different from the "temp sensor" documentation in the wiki. Are the two points + 5v?

Is there a problem with this sensor when we use the original firmware? Any problem or interference?
On wiki there is a picture showing were to wire the 3 signals. I can't understand your question.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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ashrambo   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ashrambo » Apr 02 2019 3:19am

casainho wrote:
Apr 01 2019 10:57pm
ashrambo wrote:
Apr 01 2019 6:07am
hego wrote:
Feb 24 2019 11:14am
Casainho two questions:

a- The conexión into the controller for the termal sensor LM35 operation are diferents points of the usually documentaion. Where take the +5v?

b- There is any problem with this sensor when we use back the stock firmware. Any problem or interference?

Thank´s
I have the same question,

The connection point in the controller for the LM35 sensor is different from the "temp sensor" documentation in the wiki. Are the two points + 5v?

Is there a problem with this sensor when we use the original firmware? Any problem or interference?
On wiki there is a picture showing were to wire the 3 signals. I can't understand your question.
Here, the +5v hole is that:
Image
and here in your last installation the orange cable is in other hole
Image
TREK REMEDY MOTOR TSDZ2

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 02 2019 3:29am

ashrambo wrote:
Apr 02 2019 3:19am
casainho wrote:
Apr 01 2019 10:57pm
ashrambo wrote:
Apr 01 2019 6:07am
hego wrote:
Feb 24 2019 11:14am
Casainho two questions:

a- The conexión into the controller for the termal sensor LM35 operation are diferents points of the usually documentaion. Where take the +5v?

b- There is any problem with this sensor when we use back the stock firmware. Any problem or interference?

Thank´s
I have the same question,

The connection point in the controller for the LM35 sensor is different from the "temp sensor" documentation in the wiki. Are the two points + 5v?

Is there a problem with this sensor when we use the original firmware? Any problem or interference?
On wiki there is a picture showing were to wire the 3 signals. I can't understand your question.
Here, the +5v hole is that:
Image
and here in your last installation the orange cable is in other hole
Image
Both pictures are correct. Follow the one that is better to you.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Kisazul   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kisazul » Apr 03 2019 6:02pm

Hey. There is an old and new version of aluminum spider on tsdz2. The new version comes with a smaller diameter for the rubber seal. But the old version comes with a big rubber seal. Who can help determine the parameters (dimensions in mm) of the old version of the rubber seal?

la8rat   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by la8rat » Apr 03 2019 7:45pm

is there a rubber seal ploblem?

hope not its very wet where i live.

im on the black spider version

Image

Image

Kisazul   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kisazul » Apr 03 2019 8:30pm

I'm going to steep hills. So I need a little gear in front. I bought a 104bcd spider for TSDZ2, but it is without a rubber seal. Need to install.

la8rat   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by la8rat » Apr 03 2019 9:09pm

i just swapped to a 110 bcd 38 tooth. can go as small as 34 tooth on standard spider.. its hilly here as well

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Apr 03 2019 10:05pm

eyebyesickle wrote:
Mar 31 2019 2:05pm
Rydon wrote:
Mar 31 2019 12:38am
Does anyone know where to find the seal that goes in the old style TSDZ2 chainring spider? The part that seals between the spider and the spindle?

The problem is that all of the 3rd party spiders and chainrings use this type of seal. With the old version of chainring on the TSDZ2, you just took the seal off of the factory 110 BCD spider and moved it to your new spider or chainring. Now with all of the new motors shipping with the new improved seal and black (instead of silver) spider, there is no seal to move to the 3rd part spiders and chainrings. Does anyone know of a source or solution?

Specifically, 3rd party 104 BCD spiders, 130 BCD spiders, and 30T chainrings all use the old style seal.
I had the same need and had to buy bulk, and they were more expensive than I wanted them to be! You should be able to contact TS or your supplier... or PM me if needed, and I can see what I can do for you.
Thanks, eyebyesickle! I'll be in touch.

Kisazul   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kisazul » Apr 04 2019 12:52am

la8rat wrote:
Apr 03 2019 9:09pm
i just swapped to a 110 bcd 38 tooth. can go as small as 34 tooth on standard spider.. its hilly here as well
I already have 110bcd and 34T. But I want to try 104bcd and 30T.

ri53hu   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ri53hu » Apr 04 2019 1:39am

Hi, I use BCD 110 original and transfer38 / 34 x9s
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casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 04 2019 1:52am

Kisazul wrote:
Apr 04 2019 12:52am
la8rat wrote:
Apr 03 2019 9:09pm
i just swapped to a 110 bcd 38 tooth. can go as small as 34 tooth on standard spider.. its hilly here as well
I already have 110bcd and 34T. But I want to try 104bcd and 30T.
I bought the 104bcd and I am yet to install it with a 32T. I guess 30T is only possible for single ring but I am using double: 50T and 36T.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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