New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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Dirkro   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Dirkro » May 01 2019 2:55pm

Hi,
during Easter Holyday I was using my bike with engine swiched to 0 for several kilometers over one week. For going into the Hills around Garda I used the support of course, but for the rides along the lake I was riding very well with 0 support.
In my opinion, the efect of a poor adjusted disc brace is more significant than my TSDZ2 ( now maybe after 1200 Km )
The bike is easy to ride without power.
Oh darling, this is not a new bike.. :roll:

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » May 01 2019 6:55pm

Dirkro wrote:
May 01 2019 2:55pm
Hi,
during Easter Holyday I was using my bike with engine swiched to 0 for several kilometers over one week. For going into the Hills around Garda I used the support of course, but for the rides along the lake I was riding very well with 0 support.
In my opinion, the efect of a poor adjusted disc brace is more significant than my TSDZ2 ( now maybe after 1200 Km )
The bike is easy to ride without power.
Driko,
depends on your speed. Yes easy around 20km/hr but impossible to sustain at 30km/hr
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sysrq   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » May 02 2019 1:46am

MPM wrote:
Jul 12 2017 6:43pm
eyebyesickle wrote:I don't care for the XH-18 anymore after extensive use due to unreliability.
As another point of view, my experience with the XH-18 has been good. Now I'm less adventurous than eyebyesickle and haven't tried to connect lights, brake switches, higher voltages or change the software. I'm running a standard 36V system with a 36V battery. My XH-18 has been perfectly reliable for me.

Only two minor issues I would mention:
- If I unplug my battery after a ride my XH-18 doesn't store the most recent odometer setting. So it only stores the miles of a ride if I manually switch off the XH-18 before I unplug. Now in my case this odometer is rather meaningless anyway because I often ride without power, so I don't care. I'm not sure how the other display would deal with that.
- Other minor thing, some brake handles fit under the display, but not all. My original ones did. But when I removed my derailleurs I wanted brake handles without integrated gear change, so I picked a cheap handle that is the same left and right. Those have their thicker mounting bits with a bolt to clamp it at the handlebar right at the same place where the XH-18 display wants to sit. It fits, but I had to rotate the screen further away from me than I'd like. In the mean time I bought other brake handles that should fit nicer, but the issue is minor enough that I haven't installed those yet.

Anyway, still very happy with the XH-18 and would pick it again. And I love how it looks on my bike as it's almost the symmetric mirror image of my Rohloff gear change that sits on the right hand side of the handlebars.
How often does it cuts out and shuts down when riding without power. Mine keeps turning itself off which makes it hard to turn it back on again due to initial torque sensor calibration.

sysrq   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » May 02 2019 2:09am

jbalat wrote:
May 01 2019 6:01am
Apparently the Brose motor used on the Specialised Levo has no drag when the motor is turned off
https://electrek.co/2018/07/05/shimano- ... ve-motors/

I wonder if there is something we can recommend for the next version of the tsdz2.

So I was running very low on power the other day on the way home from work (forgot to charge) and I set the max power to just 50w so I can make it home. I swear that I could actually feel the motor slowing me down, the drag was really pronounced almost as though I was fighting the rotating magnetic field but it just wouldn't let me.. I turned the motor off and somehow it did not feel as bad but still hard to get above 18 km/hr. I know it doesn't make sense since the sprag clutch should let you apply all your force directly to the front chainring ??

Actually if the motor speed was less than your peddle speed then just following the path from crank to sprag clutch you will be spinning the large rotor which will turn the small gear which in turn will be trying to turn the blue Nylon Gear. The blue gear does have a one way system too so I dont think you will be turning the motor itself, but all in all thats a lot of gears your are trying to turn.
Image
Image
Yeah, it feels like it's slowing you down in lower assist levels. Only level 4 seems more or less useful for pulse and glide riding technique to keep the rpm's up and more time to cool down, but then the torque sensor becomes a bit more meaningless, while it still somewhat contributes to the feel of pseudo-natural pedalling probably.

Demion   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Demion » May 02 2019 2:12am

As I understand wiki says there is only 2 different motor versions 36V and 48V. But seller (pswpower) specifically states "Supports up to 54.6V input voltage, can't work on 58.4V input voltage".
Sorry, but just to be sure I can still buy 48V version and flash it to support 52V battery? Thanks.

bergerandfries   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bergerandfries » May 02 2019 4:35pm

Demion wrote:
May 02 2019 2:12am
As I understand wiki says there is only 2 different motor versions 36V and 48V. But seller (pswpower) specifically states "Supports up to 54.6V input voltage, can't work on 58.4V input voltage".
Sorry, but just to be sure I can still buy 48V version and flash it to support 52V battery? Thanks.
Not sure about pswpower, but any 48V version should have the capacitors in it to take up to 60V rated. As long as your 52V doesn't charge beyond the 58.8V max, you'd be running the same configuration that I'm running. I've got 400 miles with no issues.

remremi   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by remremi » May 02 2019 6:15pm

My TSDZ2 is dead after 2200 km, after leaving it 2 hours outside under the rain.

When I tried to start it immediately after, I had the following symptoms :
- 3 first try : the display flickered, but did not start
- 4th try: display started, but displayed error code 4 (throttle error, but no throttle connected...)
- I moved the pedal manually, the motor started, and did not stop after releasing the pedals, I had to press the shutdown button !


After 1.5 week with the motor unmounted to help it dry (no visible water inside the motor), I see the following syndromes :
- No more error codes on the display
- Impossible to launch the motor with the pedals
- I connected a throttle, it works, but if I release the throttle, the motor doesn’t stop until I brake or disconnect the throttle or push the shutdown button

Do you have any ideas on how I can determine if I need to replace the display/controller/torque sensor ?
Remi

GTrider   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by GTrider » May 02 2019 10:44pm

Hi
I have tried to install the software update for the controller and the TSDZ2 motor. I have not been successful and keep getting error codes. Is there anyone in the pacific northwest region around Seattle WA that is willing to help me with the update? I am willing to compensate you for your time. Please let me know. Thank you.

hefest   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hefest » May 03 2019 6:16am

Potential heatsink fix (not mine). Layers of aluminium foil until it fits snug. I would add heatsink gel pads between the motor and foil to make the uneven motor surface contact better.
Attachments
tsdz2_alu_foil.jpg
tsdz2_alu_foil.jpg (107.56 KiB) Viewed 2091 times

S2000 Kitesurfer   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by S2000 Kitesurfer » May 03 2019 9:51am

Hi from the UK 😊.
I'm very proud to announce I've read every page it took me a week.
My head has now turned to mush and I can't remember anything haha.
I've emailed electric bike co.
Hoping to buy two complete upgrade LCDs plus motor controllers with firmware installed :) .
I have received no response from them can anybody help .
Awesome work with all the upgrades.
Cheers Lee
Attachments
Screenshot_20190503-151823.png

ri53hu   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ri53hu » May 04 2019 6:07am

S 2000
So far they are not sending out :D America

klaus2650   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by klaus2650 » May 05 2019 3:43am

What open source firmware is available for the TSDZ2 36V coaster brake version ?

alva78   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by alva78 » May 05 2019 11:55am

hi I want to connect a throttle to my tsdz2, I have an 8 wire controller, so I have to connect the white (+ 5v), orange (throttle), black (gnd) right? I can't get it to work I have a 19.5beta I have to enable some function? thank you

hefest   100 W

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Right side crank play and/or slipping problem

Post by hefest » May 05 2019 1:16pm

From what I gathered it's sprag clutch bearing issue. Main problem is that this bearing is also the one handling all the force applied by foot and motor. Replacement comes in form of main gear and bearing already fitted. According to the info I gathered, after the blue gear failure, this is second thing to go wrong wether it's manifesting as increased play in the right crank side or complete failure with slipping. With a little bit of tinkering the best option would be to replace original bearing which is rated for up to 110nm of torque with better quality bb30-1k-1 bearing rated for 140nm.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BB30-On ... 74129.html

S2000 Kitesurfer   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by S2000 Kitesurfer » May 05 2019 2:12pm

ri53hu wrote:
May 04 2019 6:07am
S 2000
So far they are not sending out :D America
Shipping is mentioned?? Can anyone help me get hold of them please 😊
Screenshot_20190505-200952.png

jif   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jif » May 05 2019 11:00pm

That's been my experience, stock firmware refuses to work over 54.6v.

FOS will works with a fully charged 58.8v battery, but with the default image (for 36v?) will complain about over-voltage. Just ignore it :D
Demion wrote:
May 02 2019 2:12am
As I understand wiki says there is only 2 different motor versions 36V and 48V. But seller (pswpower) specifically states "Supports up to 54.6V input voltage, can't work on 58.4V input voltage".
Sorry, but just to be sure I can still buy 48V version and flash it to support 52V battery? Thanks.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 06 2019 3:28am

I would like to share with the new users that we now have full control on the SW102 Bluetooth LCD and we are start developing the our own firmware and Android app to work with TSDZ2 running our flexible OpenSource firmware:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 7#p1464387

quote=Nick post_id=1464262 time=1557075753 user_id=63004]
DFU is working!

Normal Startup (SW102 advertising UART over BLE):
Image

Bootloader Mode (Hold Power + M for >5 seconds)
Image

Transfer of new firmware:
Image
/quote]
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

hefest   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hefest » May 06 2019 6:18am

casainho wrote:
May 06 2019 3:28am
I would like to share with the new users that we now have full control on the SW102 Bluetooth LCD and we are start developing the our own firmware and Android app to work with TSDZ2 running our flexible OpenSource firmware:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 7#p1464387

quote=Nick post_id=1464262 time=1557075753 user_id=63004]
DFU is working!

Normal Startup (SW102 advertising UART over BLE):
Image

Bootloader Mode (Hold Power + M for >5 seconds)
Image

Transfer of new firmware:
Image
/quote]
Great! I'm closely following sw102 thread. Does this mean flashing custom firmware over bluetooth is possible without opening sw102 and we are close to having functional sw102 with tsdz2?

varga.d   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by varga.d » May 06 2019 11:12am

Hi! I read that with the tsdz2 engine, if the maximum pedal cadence is low, a 36V system can be driven with a 48V battery. Can someone help you do exactly how to do this WITHOUT using vlcd5 and kt lcd3 displays, only with the help of (for example) st-link reprogramming? I haven't bought a kit yet...
Is it possible to re-program the voltage of the 36V motor firmware to 48V? Can this solve the low pedal cadence problem? Or just with replacing the engine controller to 48V? Do you have any experience with this? If so, how can you reprogram it? Thanks!


bjorsa wrote:
Nov 19 2017 4:29am
I should have been more specific, jumping in here severeal pages later. Earlier in the thread some of us discussed the low maximum cadence allowed with the TSDZ2. Human maximum power need much higher cadences than the motor can handle. In my case, this messed my knees up and also resulted in a broken torque sensor unit (broken axle) because I pushed slow and hard.

As per standard, the TSDZ2 tapers off any assist around 80-90 cadence rpm. AFAIK there is no easy way to simply switch out gearings so I turned to the electronics instead. Buying the new 52V system would, at least theoretically, boost the cadence by (52/48=) 8.3% which isn´t enough if you want to keep an effective cadence around 90. So I stuffed a replacement 36V inside motor in my 48V unit. Alternatively one can switch the controller of a 36V unit: simply install a 48V controller instead of the original 36V controller. The main thing is to pair a 48V battery with a 36V motor. The controller must match the battery but, alas, not the motor! Nota bene: the controllers have a cut-off and won´t start with overvoltage.

My solution won´t increase torque and shouldn´t put any extra load on the infamous blue nylon gear. In fact, unless you increase amps on the VLCD5 torque will drop, since we will only have traded torque for an rpm increase. The 36V motor is wound differently than the 48V, both delivering the same wattage.

I boosted amps from 16 to 20, matching the original torque, while increasing power output the same 25%, hopefully rather safely. I acknowledge temps will rise, but then again, I live in Sweden, so I´ll be mindful of stressing the motor if summer strikes hot, otherwise I can probable ignore the risk of increased wattage resulting in overheating the motor. For me, this has transformed the TSDZ2 from a lazy-ass sunday excursion motor to a real tempo pusher. The higher cadences allows for a sportier ride and more excercise. It will spare your knees and torque sensor unit too.

Hope this makes everything clear.

Dirkro   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Dirkro » May 06 2019 12:03pm

Please look!

https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... romscratch
You can adjust the 36 V Engine and original display to 48V and have higher cardence
Oh darling, this is not a new bike.. :roll:

btslo   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by btslo » May 06 2019 1:45pm

Can we jack up the cadence on the 48v with the opensource firmware? (I saw some options on the wiki but were "experimental", any side effects?)

hefest   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hefest » May 06 2019 4:31pm

btslo wrote:
May 06 2019 1:45pm
Can we jack up the cadence on the 48v with the opensource firmware? (I saw some options on the wiki but were "experimental", any side effects?)
Asked the same but it looks like there isn't. There are probably two options, one is to get just the 36V motor and replace existing one, another is to run dc-dc boost converter and raise the voltage to 52V.

btslo   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by btslo » May 07 2019 4:46am

hefest wrote:
May 06 2019 4:31pm
btslo wrote:
May 06 2019 1:45pm
Can we jack up the cadence on the 48v with the opensource firmware? (I saw some options on the wiki but were "experimental", any side effects?)
Asked the same but it looks like there isn't. There are probably two options, one is to get just the 36V motor and replace existing one, another is to run dc-dc boost converter and raise the voltage to 52V.
See here:

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... 11_Various

"Set (2) (EXPERIMENTAL) for the 48 V brushless motor, high cadence mode. Maybe not good for the motor, use at your own risk. Probably only suitable for the 36 V motor."

But not sure if anyone is using this.

ViriViri   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ViriViri » May 07 2019 5:47am

Just installed a 52V version with thumb throttle but the throttle body is bigger than for example my Bafang one and is interfering with the gear shifter.
Can anybody point me to a slimmer replacement thumb throttle that's plug & play to the vlcd5 display? That most common one in the world that comes with every other kit.

Antenor   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Antenor » May 07 2019 6:51am

casainho wrote:
May 06 2019 3:28am
I would like to share with the new users that we now have full control on the SW102 Bluetooth LCD and we are start developing the our own firmware and Android app to work with TSDZ2 running our flexible OpenSource firmware:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 7#p1464387

quote=Nick post_id=1464262 time=1557075753 user_id=63004]
DFU is working!

Normal Startup (SW102 advertising UART over BLE):
Image

Bootloader Mode (Hold Power + M for >5 seconds)
Image

Transfer of new firmware:
Image
/quote]
Is it necessary to flash the motor via cmputer, or the display does it all?

Thank you

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