New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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RicMcK   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » Jul 18 2019 10:03am

Sorry I can't confirm the color of the 2 wires that I needed to switch as I did not take a photo. All I remember is that I followed the instructions on the video, and it worked. I do remember that it took 20 seconds or so to boot and switch from the "everything lit up" to the "normal screen".
Rick Seattle WA

ezrider1199   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ezrider1199 » Jul 18 2019 10:29am

i swapped the RX/TX wires, tried yellow-yellow & green-brown and then the opposite. also removed the 4-1 cable, and just working with the 5 lcd strands. the only thing connected is the lcd, motor, and battery. i press the power button and the LCD just remains fully lit with all the characters showing. i also waited some time in case it was booting. still no go... open to suggestions. thinking of reflashing the motor (i reflashed lcd already), and ordering new lcd maybe.. thanks all

edit: also this is a new motor/lcd from psnpower so i hope the hardware is the same and compatible with the firmware..

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 18 2019 10:42am

ezrider1199 wrote:
Jul 18 2019 10:29am
i swapped the RX/TX wires, tried yellow-yellow & green-brown and then the opposite. also removed the 4-1 cable, and just working with the 5 lcd strands. the only thing connected is the lcd, motor, and battery. i press the power button and the LCD just remains fully lit with all the characters showing. i also waited some time in case it was booting. still no go... open to suggestions. thinking of reflashing the motor (i reflashed lcd already), and ordering new lcd maybe.. thanks all

edit: also this is a new motor/lcd from psnpower so i hope the hardware is the same and compatible with the firmware..
Assuming your motor controller and LCD3 are working properly, with correct firmware version installed, there are only 2 things that can cause that:
- RX and TX wires exchanged
- brake sensor active

If you verifed both, than maybe your motor controller is incorrectly flashed?
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Aquakitty   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Aquakitty » Jul 18 2019 2:10pm

mctubster wrote:
Jul 18 2019 4:37am
RicMcK wrote:
Jul 17 2019 7:06pm
I had the same issue when wiring the LCD3. The yellow and green were reversed. I also followed the video correction. I also used the button connector to make a pinout for easy updating.
Hi can you please confirm, the colours are correct yellow to yellow and brown to green? ie the pictures are correct and the colours in the table are correct (I am assuming 8 wire from the motor controller). Which table is wrong then? Do you mean the labeling inside the LCD3 is the opposite to what is in the table? Actually the table only details the RX and TX for the motor end. Is that being confused for the LCD3 end?

Thanks
I did not use colours on the motor side, I used the table with labels, like yellow on KT-LCD3 goes to RX on the motor. On mine, yellow on KT-LCD3 goes to TX on motor (assuming that is labelled right). The PCB of the stock LCD (VLCD5) is labelled with these. It's possible the TX wire is actually yellow which would be why people using the colour splicing would have it work fine, or it's possible the labelling on the PCB is opposite for some reason, or on the KT-LCD3 the RX might be green.

Anyways, I am struggling with getting into the right screens for testing. When I hit both up and down arrows, I just get a screen that has me pick kph vs mph. How do I get out of this screen to the rest of the options? I have no idea how to tell what screen I am on.

IS there a guide or video aside from the github page or what am I missing? I'm trying to get to the motor controller page to test the throttle.
Rans Enduro Sport w/Sturmey-Archer XFRD8, TSDZ2 open source mod 48v
GT Verb Comp f/s TSDZ2 open source 48v
Diadora Ampio bargain f/s TSDZ2 48v
2020 Diamant 247 belt drive 1000w 9C 48v
Hardtail made from random bits I had laying around, ginormous old Marzocchi fork, BBS02

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Mike-P » Jul 18 2019 3:49pm

Noticed my M33 wrench as supplied with the motor is becoming a bit worn; is there a better alternative?

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Aquakitty   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Aquakitty » Jul 18 2019 4:27pm

Mike-P wrote:
Jul 18 2019 3:49pm
Noticed my M33 wrench as supplied with the motor is becoming a bit worn; is there a better alternative?
How bout this one? https://www.greenbikekit.com/bafang-8fu ... -tool.html

Can anyone tell me how to access the other menus on the display? Super eager to test this :lol:
Rans Enduro Sport w/Sturmey-Archer XFRD8, TSDZ2 open source mod 48v
GT Verb Comp f/s TSDZ2 open source 48v
Diadora Ampio bargain f/s TSDZ2 48v
2020 Diamant 247 belt drive 1000w 9C 48v
Hardtail made from random bits I had laying around, ginormous old Marzocchi fork, BBS02

thineight   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thineight » Jul 18 2019 4:55pm

Hello! Can anyone provide our motor's bearing codes?
I know there are few types on it.. in the main axle, on the blue gear axle, the sprag clutches..
Useful to be prepared in case of replacement :wink:
Many thanks.
MTB KTM Ultra 29" - City bike DAYTONA 28"

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 18 2019 5:08pm

thineight wrote:
Jul 18 2019 4:55pm
Hello! Can anyone provide our motor's bearing codes?
I know there are few types on it.. in the main axle, on the blue gear axle, the sprag clutches..
Useful to be prepared in case of replacement :wink:
Many thanks.
I want to put this info on the wiki, I will when someone share this.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Aquakitty   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Aquakitty » Jul 18 2019 6:34pm

Ok, I got the menu figured out. I didn't realise the first screen was the master select for the other sub menus, then the sub menus have their own sub menus.

Casainho, I noticed the default numbers don't match everything in the wiki, like the Motor Power Limit was not at 0, it was set to 250w. I assume it's ok to just set this to a high number if I just want the battery/controller to do the restricting? Or should I set it to 0 w?

Edit: Scratch that. I am dumb, and forgot to turn the key on my battery haha. Everything works!

Amazing job on this software!
Rans Enduro Sport w/Sturmey-Archer XFRD8, TSDZ2 open source mod 48v
GT Verb Comp f/s TSDZ2 open source 48v
Diadora Ampio bargain f/s TSDZ2 48v
2020 Diamant 247 belt drive 1000w 9C 48v
Hardtail made from random bits I had laying around, ginormous old Marzocchi fork, BBS02

famichiki   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 18 2019 7:49pm

thineight wrote:
Jul 18 2019 4:55pm
Hello! Can anyone provide our motor's bearing codes?
I know there are few types on it.. in the main axle, on the blue gear axle, the sprag clutches..
Useful to be prepared in case of replacement :wink:
Many thanks.
This was previously posted, does anyone know the last one's details and if anything is missing?
905tim wrote:
Jul 01 2018 4:47pm
hobbyvac (June 10) asked about bearing numbers. The following is what I know:-
606RS - Motor shaft bearing outboard of pinion.
On first reduction gear shaft (blue plastic or brass gear)
608RS in motor housing.
609RS in one side of gear.
HF1216 (one way clutch) in other side of gear.
6001RS between blue gear and second reduction pinion.
csk30p sprag clutch in main gear.
Main drive shaft (LH end) ???????????

Tim

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 18 2019 8:21pm

Is a battery rated 25A Continuous/34A Max Burst going to be fine for running the motor at 15A or even 18A? Does it ever exceed 18A?

It seems ok to me, but then I see some posts saying for safe headroom to double the amps needed.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Jul 18 2019 8:43pm

famichiki wrote:
Jul 18 2019 8:21pm
Is a battery rated 25A Continuous/34A Max Burst going to be fine for running the motor at 15A or even 18A? Does it ever exceed 18A?

It seems ok to me, but then I see some posts saying for safe headroom to double the amps needed.
Yes fine. Of course a battery capable of higher discharge rates will be slightly more efficient at higher currents, but you won't be able to run the TSDZ2 at more than 10-12A for an extended period of time regardless ... as you will overheat and damaged it.

Link to the battery?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Jul 18 2019 8:53pm

Aquakitty wrote:
Jul 18 2019 2:10pm
mctubster wrote:
Jul 18 2019 4:37am
RicMcK wrote:
Jul 17 2019 7:06pm
I had the same issue when wiring the LCD3. The yellow and green were reversed. I also followed the video correction. I also used the button connector to make a pinout for easy updating.
Hi can you please confirm, the colours are correct yellow to yellow and brown to green? ie the pictures are correct and the colours in the table are correct (I am assuming 8 wire from the motor controller). Which table is wrong then? Do you mean the labeling inside the LCD3 is the opposite to what is in the table? Actually the table only details the RX and TX for the motor end. Is that being confused for the LCD3 end?

Thanks
I did not use colours on the motor side, I used the table with labels, like yellow on KT-LCD3 goes to RX on the motor. On mine, yellow on KT-LCD3 goes to TX on motor (assuming that is labelled right). The PCB of the stock LCD (VLCD5) is labelled with these. It's possible the TX wire is actually yellow which would be why people using the colour splicing would have it work fine, or it's possible the labelling on the PCB is opposite for some reason, or on the KT-LCD3 the RX might be green.

Anyways, I am struggling with getting into the right screens for testing. When I hit both up and down arrows, I just get a screen that has me pick kph vs mph. How do I get out of this screen to the rest of the options? I have no idea how to tell what screen I am on.

IS there a guide or video aside from the github page or what am I missing? I'm trying to get to the motor controller page to test the throttle.
Thanks. Looks like this issue has occurred in the past. Seems as though in some batches of the LCD3 the yellow and green wires are reversed. See viewtopic.php?t=93818&start=1600#p1439191

Re your button / selection issues ... the process has changed recently. What firmware are you running? 18, 19 (not sure if ever went general release) or 20 (beta)?

famichiki   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 18 2019 9:26pm

mctubster wrote:
Jul 18 2019 8:43pm
Yes fine. Of course a battery capable of higher discharge rates will be slightly more efficient at higher currents, but you won't be able to run the TSDZ2 at more than 10-12A for an extended period of time regardless ... as you will overheat and damaged it.

Link to the battery?
Thanks for the info, I'm considering the 48V 13S5P Samsung 35E version of this.

https://em3ev.com/shop/em3ev-48v-13s5p- ... e-battery/

The cells are 8A continuous/13A max burst, so both the pack ratings are under the continuous rating at about 1.5C and 2C.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Jul 19 2019 12:03am

famichiki wrote:
Jul 18 2019 9:26pm
mctubster wrote:
Jul 18 2019 8:43pm
Yes fine. Of course a battery capable of higher discharge rates will be slightly more efficient at higher currents, but you won't be able to run the TSDZ2 at more than 10-12A for an extended period of time regardless ... as you will overheat and damaged it.

Link to the battery?
Thanks for the info, I'm considering the 48V 13S5P Samsung 35E version of this.

https://em3ev.com/shop/em3ev-48v-13s5p- ... e-battery/

The cells are 8A continuous/13A max burst, so both the pack ratings are under the continuous rating at about 1.5C and 2C.
Huge amounts of headroom. Really nice looking pack. Consider getting a charger with 80% and 90% cutout if you don't need 100% of the capacity. Your battery will love you.

thineight   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thineight » Jul 19 2019 2:07am

casainho wrote:
Jul 18 2019 5:08pm
thineight wrote:
Jul 18 2019 4:55pm
Hello! Can anyone provide our motor's bearing codes?
I know there are few types on it.. in the main axle, on the blue gear axle, the sprag clutches..
Useful to be prepared in case of replacement :wink:
Many thanks.
I want to put this info on the wiki, I will when someone share this.
I was asking the same info on the italian forum, luckily a user that recently was servicing the motor took note on all the bearings around.
Source: http://www.jobike.it/forum/topic.asp?TO ... ichpage=40

BLUE GEAR : HF1216 - 609 RS
Axle motor side 608RS – carter side 6001RS
Motore shaft carter side 696RS – motor side 6800RS
Main pedal shaft: left side 6902RS (61902 2RS1) – right side on torque sensor HK 2212 (note: on left side it is beneficial to put two bearings instead of one)
Sprag clutch: 30 CSK-P bb30 o CSK30P

Very useful to put this info on the wiki!

Note that my motors from late 2017 have already 2 bearings on the left side of the pedal shaft, whereas more recent ones looks they have one only. The user andrea_104kg recently added the second bearing right below the rubber protection and this helps to reduce the bending moment of the shaft.
IMG_20171201_174316.jpg
IMG_20171201_174316.jpg (37.77 KiB) Viewed 719 times
MTB KTM Ultra 29" - City bike DAYTONA 28"

dameri   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Jul 19 2019 2:43am

thineight wrote:
Jul 19 2019 2:07am


I was asking the same info on the italian forum, luckily a user that recently was servicing the motor took note on all the bearings around.
Source: http://www.jobike.it/forum/topic.asp?TO ... ichpage=40

BLUE GEAR : HF1216 - 609 RS
Axle motor side 608RS – carter side 6001RS
Motore shaft carter side 696RS – motor side 6800RS
Main pedal shaft: left side 6902RS (61902 2RS1) – right side on torque sensor HK 2212 (note: on left side it is beneficial to put two bearings instead of one)
Sprag clutch: 30 CSK-P bb30 o CSK30P

Very useful to put this info on the wiki!

Note that my motors from late 2017 have already 2 bearings on the left side of the pedal shaft, whereas more recent ones looks they have one only. The user andrea_104kg recently added the second bearing right below the rubber protection and this helps to reduce the bending moment of the shaft.
IMG_20171201_174316.jpg
Is somewhere instructions how to uninstall and install main pedal shaft.
I'm going to make full service to my motor and change bearings etc.

Thanks for sharing information bearings :D

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 19 2019 3:27am

thineight wrote:
Jul 19 2019 2:07am
Very useful to put this info on the wiki!
I put it under the FAQ: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ings_codes
thineight wrote:
Jul 19 2019 2:07am
Note that my motors from late 2017 have already 2 bearings on the left side of the pedal shaft, whereas more recent ones looks they have one only. The user andrea_104kg recently added the second bearing right below the rubber protection and this helps to reduce the bending moment of the shaft.
So, on that picture we can see 1 wire of the torque sensor broken... probably you had torque sensor wires connected while disassembling, right?

Also the older versions had a different axle that includes 2 bearings and it is also longer. The torque sensor is also a bit different size on the part that fixes on the axle. Axles comparison:

Also note that I just received 2 torque sensors from PSWPower and they are clearly better for assembling, reducing the risk of damage and they have the measures to work only with this recent shafts that has only 1 bearing.

Image

I think I will add that second bearing and compare the reduce the bending moment of the shaft. Maybe we can put this as a suggestion on the wiki??
dameri wrote:
Jul 19 2019 2:43am
Is somewhere instructions how to uninstall and install main pedal shaft.
I'm going to make full service to my motor and change bearings etc.
Maybe you can look at youtube videos. I watch all of them and then played with my old motors, as I have currently 4 bicycles for all the family I have spare motors to use for spare parts, etc.

If you are going to make full service, you will then remove the torque sensor and so I suggest you to do a good calibration: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... que-sensor
I really hope we can improve the firmware in a way it will be able to use the full range of the torque sensor, including the no linear range and probably make a calibrated torque sensor to detect up to 60kg of force.

And please read that page about the torque sensor to avoid damage it, it is kind of fragile and you need to take careful when disassembling and assembling.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thineight » Jul 19 2019 4:30am

casainho wrote:
Jul 19 2019 3:27am
I put it under the FAQ: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ings_codes

So, on that picture we can see 1 wire of the torque sensor broken... probably you had torque sensor wires connected while disassembling, right?
No, when I installed the second new motor it wasn't working while pedalling, only walk assist. I concluded it was something related to the torque sensor. I asked pswpower and got permission to open and as soon as I removed the cover I found the loose wire.
I negotiated to get a torque sensor replacement for free, which arrived with the disc not perpendicular to the shaft.. therefore he sent me another one.
So I have 2 spare torque sensors with shaft now (but only one ring-magnet).. I checked them and looks like they are the 1-left bearing version, even if they sent me the sensors on late 2017-early 2018. Did you say this "new" version is better for assembling/disassembling? Why?
casainho wrote:
Jul 19 2019 3:27am
Also note that I just received 2 torque sensors from PSWPower and they are clearly better for assembling, reducing the risk of damage and they have the measures to work only with this recent shafts that has only 1 bearing.

Image

I think I will add that second bearing and compare the reduce the bending moment of the shaft. Maybe we can put this as a suggestion on the wiki??
If it works well for you (new type with one bearing) definitely yes.
How is the new torque sensor compared to the old one? Can you share a picture?

Thanks
MTB KTM Ultra 29" - City bike DAYTONA 28"

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 19 2019 5:11am

thineight wrote:
Jul 19 2019 4:30am
How is the new torque sensor compared to the old one? Can you share a picture?
It is easy to assembly because the second coil seem to be glued to the torque sensor body itself while the older torque sensors I had, it was not glued and I had to align both coils while using an hammer to assembly, the result was a coil that was smashed but with new version of torque sensor it is more easy to avoid that since that second coil is fixed/glued and already aligned.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

ezrider1199   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ezrider1199 » Jul 19 2019 9:34am

casainho wrote:
Jul 18 2019 10:42am
ezrider1199 wrote:
Jul 18 2019 10:29am
i swapped the RX/TX wires, tried yellow-yellow & green-brown and then the opposite. also removed the 4-1 cable, and just working with the 5 lcd strands. the only thing connected is the lcd, motor, and battery. i press the power button and the LCD just remains fully lit with all the characters showing. i also waited some time in case it was booting. still no go... open to suggestions. thinking of reflashing the motor (i reflashed lcd already), and ordering new lcd maybe.. thanks all

edit: also this is a new motor/lcd from psnpower so i hope the hardware is the same and compatible with the firmware..
Assuming your motor controller and LCD3 are working properly, with correct firmware version installed, there are only 2 things that can cause that:
- RX and TX wires exchanged
- brake sensor active

If you verifed both, than maybe your motor controller is incorrectly flashed?
The tsdz2 controller firmware was the issue :thumb: Reflashed it and it was good. The LCD turns on and i see the timer going etc. Guess the first time i flashed it badly or wrong protocol..

Will be a few more days before i mount all the components and really test it.

edit: also I had to connect the yellow-yellow and brown-green cables together for the RX/TX wires

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 19 2019 9:38am

mctubster wrote:
Jul 19 2019 12:03am
Huge amounts of headroom. Really nice looking pack. Consider getting a charger with 80% and 90% cutout if you don't need 100% of the capacity. Your battery will love you.
Good idea, I'm looking at the Cycle Satiator charger which should be able to do that.

However, I'm stuck trying to decide between a 48V or 52V battery. The cadence limit is an issue, but I'll post in the firmware thread instead.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Jul 19 2019 11:02am

casainho wrote:
Jul 19 2019 3:27am

dameri wrote:
Jul 19 2019 2:43am
Is somewhere instructions how to uninstall and install main pedal shaft.
I'm going to make full service to my motor and change bearings etc.
Maybe you can look at youtube videos. I watch all of them and then played with my old motors, as I have currently 4 bicycles for all the family I have spare motors to use for spare parts, etc.

If you are going to make full service, you will then remove the torque sensor and so I suggest you to do a good calibration: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... que-sensor
I really hope we can improve the firmware in a way it will be able to use the full range of the torque sensor, including the no linear range and probably make a calibrated torque sensor to detect up to 60kg of force.

And please read that page about the torque sensor to avoid damage it, it is kind of fragile and you need to take careful when disassembling and assembling.
I'm planning service because my TSDZ2 motor has started slipping. Maby blue gear or sprag clutch. I'll find videos. Never put that motor to pieces so it's not familiar. I will take a look at wiki about torque sensor.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Mike-P » Jul 19 2019 11:16am

Aquakitty wrote:
Jul 18 2019 4:27pm
Mike-P wrote:
Jul 18 2019 3:49pm
Noticed my M33 wrench as supplied with the motor is becoming a bit worn; is there a better alternative?
How bout this one? https://www.greenbikekit.com/bafang-8fu ... -tool.html
Surely that has too many teeth = the TSDZ2 wrench only has 8 teeth

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by matmuze » Jul 19 2019 6:03pm

Hi guys, Tsdz2 n00b here...

I just finished installing the firmware and it works rather well, I'm happy so far, but I'm not getting anywhere near the cadence speed jdbalat was showing in his videos...

I'm rocking a 48v version with a beefy 13S Sanyo 17.5 Ah, but I barely got more than 90rpm pedalling really hard downhill lol, my bike and I are rather lightweight and I think I could safely push it a little bit harder.

I'm using v0.19 with stock settings and with the high cadence experimental mode enabled, could any of you guys point me to the right configuration setting that could unleash the beast, I looked at the doc through but through but I could not find anything clear.

Edit: Power limit is set all the way up to 800w so I don't think it's being limited by the power input...

Edit 2: For these saying that 90rpm is the normal winding speed of a 48v motor with a 48v battery I invite you to watch the video from jdbalat where he pushes rpm way higher than 90rpm with just a 36v battery so no overvolting, which he claims is one of the strongest selling point of the firmware...

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