New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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wpenner   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Jul 19 2019 8:23pm

I have my motor apart, can someone kindly link me to a good diagram for installing the temperature sensor? I have the 8 wire throttle version. What three wires do I cut? Thanks, the diagram on the wiki is not super clear.

wpenner   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Jul 20 2019 12:44am

wpenner wrote:
Jul 19 2019 8:23pm
I have my motor apart, can someone kindly link me to a good diagram for installing the temperature sensor? I have the 8 wire throttle version. What three wires do I cut? Thanks, the diagram on the wiki is not super clear.
Cut the orange wire for the signal. Spliced into white wire for 5v, spliced into black wire for ground. I'll find out in the morning if it works.

ri53hu   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ri53hu » Jul 20 2019 9:13am

Hi casainho, so I already started using Flexible OpenSource on my 8 pin 48v engine and 52v battery but I have a problem with making something I did but somehow I do not understand the submenu no time to come. Thank you for your work. Richard.
Attachments
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casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 20 2019 9:15am

ri53hu wrote:
Jul 20 2019 9:13am
Hi casainho, so I already started using Flexible OpenSource on my 8 pin 48v engine and 52v battery but I have a problem with making something I did but somehow I do not understand the submenu no time to come. Thank you for your work. Richard.
Sorry, I am not using KT-LCD3 no more so I can't say much.

Nice installation :-)
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

wpenner   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Jul 20 2019 12:23pm

wpenner wrote:
Jul 20 2019 12:44am
wpenner wrote:
Jul 19 2019 8:23pm
I have my motor apart, can someone kindly link me to a good diagram for installing the temperature sensor? I have the 8 wire throttle version. What three wires do I cut? Thanks, the diagram on the wiki is not super clear.
Cut the orange wire for the signal. Spliced into white wire for 5v, spliced into black wire for ground. I'll find out in the morning if it works.
Well that did not work. Is the white wire not for +5v? Seems like it thinks the e brake is on now.
Last edited by wpenner on Jul 20 2019 4:43pm, edited 1 time in total.

wpenner   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Jul 20 2019 5:34pm

Warning. It cost me $72CAD after duty and shipping to get a single blue gear shipped to me from pswpower. Consider ordering an extra gear if you are going to order this motor.

famichiki   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 20 2019 5:55pm

wpenner wrote:
Jul 20 2019 5:34pm
Warning. It cost me $72CAD after duty and shipping to get a single blue gear shipped to me from pswpower. Consider ordering an extra gear if you are going to order this motor.
I was going to include one in my order but they still added the additional shipping for the gear to the total even though the motor shipping was free, so it didn't work out any cheaper than ordering separately. Perhaps they ship from different locations.
Last edited by famichiki on Jul 20 2019 6:33pm, edited 1 time in total.

famichiki   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 20 2019 5:59pm

itchyfoot42 wrote:
Sep 20 2017 9:58pm
The 52V battery is a poor choice for the 15A version of the TDSZ2. Assuming the max charge for each cell to be 4.2V and the performance cliff voltage to be 3.35 a 13 cell 48V battery will have a fully charged voltage of 56.6. Full charge on my 52V battery is 58.8, BUT my 15A TDSZ2 will not start until discharged to about 55.5. On one occasion I got a start at 56V, but haven't been able to replicate that. The killer is that while both start at 55-56V, low voltage (out of usable power) is 46.9V for the 52V battery while it is 43.55 for the 48V battery. The 48V battery can be drawn down 13.5 volts, while my 52V battery can only be drawn down 8.7 volts, ALMOST 30% LESS!

I'm not an EE, so may not understand the impact of these numbers correctly, but it looks like my early adoption based on the then tribal wisdom that all 48volt motors should work on 52V has really reduced my range by 30%. I'm also assuming that a fully charged 48V battery at 56.6V actually starts the 48V TDSZ2.
Is this reduced maximum usable voltage still a problem for 52V even after flashing the firmware?

wpenner   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Jul 20 2019 6:04pm

famichiki wrote:
Jul 20 2019 5:59pm
itchyfoot42 wrote:
Sep 20 2017 9:58pm
The 52V battery is a poor choice for the 15A version of the TDSZ2. Assuming the max charge for each cell to be 4.2V and the performance cliff voltage to be 3.35 a 13 cell 48V battery will have a fully charged voltage of 56.6. Full charge on my 52V battery is 58.8, BUT my 15A TDSZ2 will not start until discharged to about 55.5. On one occasion I got a start at 56V, but haven't been able to replicate that. The killer is that while both start at 55-56V, low voltage (out of usable power) is 46.9V for the 52V battery while it is 43.55 for the 48V battery. The 48V battery can be drawn down 13.5 volts, while my 52V battery can only be drawn down 8.7 volts, ALMOST 30% LESS!

I'm not an EE, so may not understand the impact of these numbers correctly, but it looks like my early adoption based on the then tribal wisdom that all 48volt motors should work on 52V has really reduced my range by 30%. I'm also assuming that a fully charged 48V battery at 56.6V actually starts the 48V TDSZ2.
Is this reduced maximum usable voltage still a problem for 52V even after flashing the firmware?
No, with custom firmware you can run 52V 14s pack and set low voltage cutoff to whatever you want. The original firmware will only start with a 48V 13s pack.

famichiki   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 20 2019 6:29pm

wpenner wrote:
Jul 20 2019 6:04pm
famichiki wrote:
Jul 20 2019 5:59pm
Is this reduced maximum usable voltage still a problem for 52V even after flashing the firmware?
No, with custom firmware you can run 52V 14s pack and set low voltage cutoff to whatever you want. The original firmware will only start with a 48V 13s pack.
That's good. So at top end the battery voltage be utilised above ~56V?

Henro   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Henro » Jul 21 2019 12:20am

wpenner wrote:
Jul 20 2019 12:23pm
wpenner wrote:
Jul 20 2019 12:44am
wpenner wrote:
Jul 19 2019 8:23pm
I have my motor apart, can someone kindly link me to a good diagram for installing the temperature sensor? I have the 8 wire throttle version. What three wires do I cut? Thanks, the diagram on the wiki is not super clear.
Cut the orange wire for the signal. Spliced into white wire for 5v, spliced into black wire for ground. I'll find out in the morning if it works.
Well that did not work. Is the white wire not for +5v? Seems like it thinks the e brake is on now.
I had similar issues installing the temperature sensor. My kit is from Electrify Bike Co, and has a bafang wiring harness, which uses different colors.
For me it turned out that blue was throttle and red was +5V. Black is still ground.
Inspect where your wires go very carefully.
More info on page 209 of this thread. Hope this sheds a little light.

dameri   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Jul 21 2019 12:43am

wpenner wrote:
Jul 20 2019 5:34pm
Warning. It cost me $72CAD after duty and shipping to get a single blue gear shipped to me from pswpower. Consider ordering an extra gear if you are going to order this motor.
You can ask here parts for TSDZ2. They are in Nashwille, but they send also from China.
https://www.eco-ebike.com/pages/shipping

thineight   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thineight » Jul 21 2019 10:57am

thineight wrote:
Jul 19 2019 2:07am
casainho wrote:
Jul 18 2019 5:08pm
thineight wrote:
Jul 18 2019 4:55pm
Hello! Can anyone provide our motor's bearing codes?
I know there are few types on it.. in the main axle, on the blue gear axle, the sprag clutches..
Useful to be prepared in case of replacement :wink:
Many thanks.
I want to put this info on the wiki, I will when someone share this.
I was asking the same info on the italian forum, luckily a user that recently was servicing the motor took note on all the bearings around.
Source: http://www.jobike.it/forum/topic.asp?TO ... ichpage=40

BLUE GEAR : HF1216 - 609 RS
Axle motor side 608RS – carter side 6001RS
Motore shaft carter side 696RS – motor side 6800RS
Main pedal shaft: left side 6902RS (61902 2RS1) – right side on torque sensor HK 2212 (note: on left side it is beneficial to put two bearings instead of one)
Sprag clutch: 30 CSK-P bb30 o CSK30P

Very useful to put this info on the wiki!

Note that my motors from late 2017 have already 2 bearings on the left side of the pedal shaft, whereas more recent ones looks they have one only. The user andrea_104kg recently added the second bearing right below the rubber protection and this helps to reduce the bending moment of the shaft.
IMG_20171201_174316.jpg
Regarding the bearings, please note that another bearing was found inside the black chassis.. perhaps in the version with one bearing at the left pedal.

Scroll the page to see the picture:
http://www.jobike.it/forum/topic.asp?TO ... ichpage=40
MTB KTM Ultra 29" - City bike DAYTONA 28"

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 21 2019 11:16am

thineight wrote:
Jul 21 2019 10:57am
Regarding the bearings, please note that another bearing was found inside the black chassis.. perhaps in the version with one bearing at the left pedal.

Scroll the page to see the picture:
http://www.jobike.it/forum/topic.asp?TO ... ichpage=40
[/quote]
I confirm that bearing on the new torque sensor I bought.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

famichiki   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 22 2019 2:41am

After replacing the blue gear with the metal one, can we use any grease or does it still need to be that special stuff?

samuelsson87   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by samuelsson87 » Jul 22 2019 3:16am

I just bought my second motor from PSW but there seems to be a loose panel on the drive side where the cables goes.

Do I need to worry about water getting in?
See video on this link for better understanding: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gf09u4 ... p=drivesdk

Image

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 22 2019 3:22am

samuelsson87 wrote:
Jul 22 2019 3:16am
I just bought my second motor from PSW but there seems to be a loose panel on the drive side where the cables goes.

Do I need to worry about water getting in?
See video on this link for better understanding: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gf09u4 ... p=drivesdk

Image
Usually everything is insulated under that panel however you must check the battery power cable -- I suggest you to take out that panel to see by yourself.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 22 2019 6:21am

New firmware version for 850C LCD

Changes:
- corrected issue where system would not turn off
- added current ramp up configuration (this is an important configuration to save the blue gear)
- configuration menu position is now saved between power offs (the configuration menu is big and now you don't need to restart on top position every time you turn on the system)
- improved EEPROM saving/reading variables, now using structures instead of defines

NOTE: this versions was developed for TSDZ2 motor controller firmware v0.19.0.

Download here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... tag/v0.2.0
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

samuelsson87   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by samuelsson87 » Jul 22 2019 6:25am

[/quote]
Usually everything is insulated under that panel however you must check the battery power cable -- I suggest you to take out that panel to see by yourself.
[/quote]

Ok, thanks :)
PSW claims that it is normal but I guess its not worth fighting for a return then..

wpenner   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Jul 22 2019 2:36pm

Henro wrote:
Jul 21 2019 12:20am
wpenner wrote:
Jul 20 2019 12:23pm
wpenner wrote:
Jul 20 2019 12:44am
wpenner wrote:
Jul 19 2019 8:23pm
I have my motor apart, can someone kindly link me to a good diagram for installing the temperature sensor? I have the 8 wire throttle version. What three wires do I cut? Thanks, the diagram on the wiki is not super clear.
Cut the orange wire for the signal. Spliced into white wire for 5v, spliced into black wire for ground. I'll find out in the morning if it works.
Well that did not work. Is the white wire not for +5v? Seems like it thinks the e brake is on now.
I had similar issues installing the temperature sensor. My kit is from Electrify Bike Co, and has a bafang wiring harness, which uses different colors.
For me it turned out that blue was throttle and red was +5V. Black is still ground.
Inspect where your wires go very carefully.
More info on page 209 of this thread. Hope this sheds a little light.
Thanks I’ll have to pull it apart and take another look. Mine is from pswpower with lcd5 so I think three cables should be “normal”

Zeggi   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Zeggi » Jul 22 2019 7:50pm

wpenner wrote:
Jul 20 2019 6:04pm
famichiki wrote:
Jul 20 2019 5:59pm
itchyfoot42 wrote:
Sep 20 2017 9:58pm
The 52V battery is a poor choice for the 15A version of the TDSZ2. Assuming the max charge for each cell to be 4.2V and the performance cliff voltage to be 3.35 a 13 cell 48V battery will have a fully charged voltage of 56.6. Full charge on my 52V battery is 58.8, BUT my 15A TDSZ2 will not start until discharged to about 55.5. On one occasion I got a start at 56V, but haven't been able to replicate that. The killer is that while both start at 55-56V, low voltage (out of usable power) is 46.9V for the 52V battery while it is 43.55 for the 48V battery. The 48V battery can be drawn down 13.5 volts, while my 52V battery can only be drawn down 8.7 volts, ALMOST 30% LESS!

I'm not an EE, so may not understand the impact of these numbers correctly, but it looks like my early adoption based on the then tribal wisdom that all 48volt motors should work on 52V has really reduced my range by 30%. I'm also assuming that a fully charged 48V battery at 56.6V actually starts the 48V TDSZ2.
Is this reduced maximum usable voltage still a problem for 52V even after flashing the firmware?
No, with custom firmware you can run 52V 14s pack and set low voltage cutoff to whatever you want. The original firmware will only start with a 48V 13s pack.
Well with the firmware you can set it to your liking.
I'm using the 52v 750w version with battery; "14s4p 52v 14ah/17.5ah 500-1000w " Samsung 35ET
Max charged at 58.6-58.8v
Cut off set to I think it was 10-20% 46.3-47.6v
Power set to 750w
Attachments
image_9033.jpg
52v voltage chart
image_9033.jpg (423.13 KiB) Viewed 539 times

famichiki   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 23 2019 12:07am

Zeggi wrote:
Jul 22 2019 7:50pm
Well with the firmware you can set it to your liking.
I'm using the 52v 750w version with battery; "14s4p 52v 14ah/17.5ah 500-1000w " Samsung 35ET
Max charged at 58.6-58.8v
Cut off set to I think it was 10-20% 46.3-47.6v
Power set to 750w
Thanks for the info. It sounds like the motor would still go strong even when the 52V battery is almost flat.

Have you flashed the firmware or just left it stock for now? I'd like to know it's possible to enable the high cadence mode on 52V or whether it's even necessary. I'm not sure if or what the cadence limit is lifted to simply by running a 52V battery.

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 23 2019 4:23am

I found a new video on Youtube showing a converion with TSDZ2 and our OpenSource firmware. Although it is hard to understand the language, I think it can serve as inspiration for new users:

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

csbike   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by csbike » Jul 23 2019 8:46am

hi
I just received the LCD3 and will flash soon.
But I discovered that in the month between my order and the LCD3 being delivered, casainho prepared a version for the 850c. Too bad I did not know this, or I would have bought the latter.
Anyway, I have a few questions:
- are the features on the two displays the same?
- Will new features be available on both displays?
- is there a way to log statistics with either display? and possibly to download them to a PC later?

thanks

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 23 2019 9:22am

csbike wrote:
Jul 23 2019 8:46am
Anyway, I have a few questions:
- are the features on the two displays the same?
- Will new features be available on both displays?
- is there a way to log statistics with either display? and possibly to download them to a PC later?
1. No as I didn't implement yet things like cruise control. But I think most of relevant features are there. I am still developing it.

2. No as KT-LCD3 has memory at limit.

3. No. That will probably be possible with the SW102 Bluetooth LCD, where the log of variables are done on the mobile phone.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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