New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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RicMcK   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » Jul 23 2019 10:12am

Is the development of the lcd3 stopping? And are you switching your focus to the 850c?
Rick Seattle WA

RicMcK   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » Jul 23 2019 10:12am

Is the development of the lcd3 stopping? And are you switching your focus to the 850c?
Rick Seattle WA

RicMcK   10 W

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electrifying a Tandem?

Post by RicMcK » Jul 23 2019 10:57am

I just finished electrifying my town bike and it is great. Now I am thinking about trying to electrify our tandem. I don't know if anyone has tried this yet?

There are many potential challenges, first is my wife (stoker) is not a strong peddler.
So my first question is should I go with a torque sensor or PAS system?
My thinking is to mount the motor on the stoker BB, and only have 2 chainrings (vs the current tripple). As the captain chainring is on the left side and I don't know if the motor will fit in the adjustable BB.

The more I think about it I will try to fit it into the front BB. Mainly because I am the 70-80% of the input power, while the stoker is 20-30%. This maybe a real challenge with the adjustable BB mount (for getting the chain slack correct. Then linking to the small chain ring on the stoker crank.


Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks Rick
Last edited by RicMcK on Jul 23 2019 10:03pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rick Seattle WA

csbike   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by csbike » Jul 23 2019 11:27am

casainho wrote:
Jul 23 2019 9:22am

3. No. That will probably be possible with the SW102 Bluetooth LCD, where the log of variables are done on the mobile phone.
Thanks
what's the status of the SW102? I've seen a thread, but is there a version yet?
Also, I had seen someone post a video of a bike controlled through a bluetooth mobile phone. Is there a mobile phone app in the working? Or a piece of code I can start from ;)?

wpenner   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Jul 23 2019 11:55am

samuelsson87 wrote:
Jul 22 2019 3:16am
I just bought my second motor from PSW but there seems to be a loose panel on the drive side where the cables goes.

Do I need to worry about water getting in?
See video on this link for better understanding: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gf09u4 ... p=drivesdk

Image
This is somewhat normal. Inside the panel is a big blob of silicone where the wires actually enter the motor keeping it waterproof and sealed.

maximusdm   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by maximusdm » Jul 23 2019 12:58pm

IMG_20190723_192231_compress62.jpg
IMG_20190723_192231_compress62.jpg (158.34 KiB) Viewed 1332 times
Hello,

I need to fit the motor on a mtb that has the shifter cables in the bottom of the frame like in the picture.
Anyone hâd this problem?

Thanks.

SlowCo   1 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by SlowCo » Jul 23 2019 3:02pm

maximusdm wrote:
Jul 23 2019 12:58pm
Hello,

I need to fit the motor on a mtb that has the shifter cables in the bottom of the frame like in the picture.
Anyone hâd this problem?

Thanks.
Replace the open cable with full length Bowden cables and route them elsewhere to give the motor room.



Bowden cable.jpg
Bowden cable.jpg (339.34 KiB) Viewed 1320 times

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 23 2019 3:05pm

csbike wrote:
Jul 23 2019 11:27am
casainho wrote:
Jul 23 2019 9:22am

3. No. That will probably be possible with the SW102 Bluetooth LCD, where the log of variables are done on the mobile phone.
Thanks
what's the status of the SW102? I've seen a thread, but is there a version yet?
Also, I had seen someone post a video of a bike controlled through a bluetooth mobile phone. Is there a mobile phone app in the working? Or a piece of code I can start from ;)?
SW102 has about 50% done but are the foundations and nothing is usable right now.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

famichiki   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 23 2019 6:53pm

With my kit I received a speed sensor with a double connector but I won't be running any lights (for now). It didn't come with any dust caps for the connectors, was it supposed to or what are other people doing to keep water etc out? I don't want to silicone it up as I may use it in the future.

I might order the single connector version from PSWpower, but I recall someone doing that with the intention of making a programming cable but receiving a double one anyway "at no extra charge" . Has anyone here successfully ordered a single connector version from them?

http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2016-5n-qtqt

This is what I currently have.
speed-sensor.jpg
speed-sensor.jpg (12.24 KiB) Viewed 1291 times
Last edited by famichiki on Jul 23 2019 7:08pm, edited 1 time in total.

famichiki   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 23 2019 7:03pm

famichiki wrote:
Jul 16 2019 4:35am
Is the VLCD5 8 pin cable thicker than the 6 pin cable, and does anyone know the diameter of each please?
In case anyone else is interested, I've measured the 8 pin cable at 5.7mm. I was considering running the display cable through where the front derailleur cable was.

In comparison, gear shift cable housing is 4mm and both brake cable and hydraulic hose is 5mm.

RicMcK   10 W

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Re: BB cable routing

Post by RicMcK » Jul 23 2019 9:59pm

I my touring bike has the same setup. First try a button head screw and or a low profile BB cable guide. My treck has enough clearance with the BB cable guides.

Rick McK
Rick Seattle WA

Rydon   100 W

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Re: electrifying a Tandem?

Post by Rydon » Jul 24 2019 12:31am

RicMcK wrote:
Jul 23 2019 10:57am
I just finished electrifying my town bike and it is great. Now I am thinking about trying to electrify our tandem. I don't know if anyone has tried this yet?

There are many potential challenges, first is my wife (stoker) is not a strong peddler.
So my first question is should I go with a torque sensor or PAS system?
My thinking is to mount the motor on the stoker BB, and only have 2 chainrings (vs the current tripple). As the captain chainring is on the left side and I don't know if the motor will fit in the adjustable BB.

The more I think about it I will try to fit it into the front BB. Mainly because I am the 70-80% of the input power, while the stoker is 20-30%. This maybe a real challenge with the adjustable BB mount (for getting the chain slack correct. Then linking to the small chain ring on the stoker crank.


Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks Rick
I've done quite a few tandems. Put the mid-drive in the stoker BB position. It makes no difference to the captain since the captain is coupled directly to the stoker on the left side. It won't work on the captain BB anyway if it is eccentric for chain adjustment.

The left stoker crank will need to be square taper with the same size chainring as the captain. You can change them both if you need to. They just both need to be the same size so the cranks are synchronized. You likely won't need more than one chainring on the stoker drive side. Just use the ones on the rear cassette. Most riders find they need a lot fewer gears with a motor. You only need about a 24" extension for the main display harness to reach the pilot's bars.

Good luck! They are really fun.

csbike   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by csbike » Jul 24 2019 4:39am

famichiki wrote:
Jul 23 2019 6:53pm
With my kit I received a speed sensor with a double connector but I won't be running any lights (for now). It didn't come with any dust caps for the connectors, was it supposed to or what are other people doing to keep water etc out? I don't want to silicone it up as I may use it in the future.

I might order the single connector version from PSWpower, but I recall someone doing that with the intention of making a programming cable but receiving a double one anyway "at no extra charge" . Has anyone here successfully ordered a single connector version from them?

http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2016-5n-qtqt

This is what I currently have.

speed-sensor.jpg
I just put several layers of insulating tape all around. Unless you plan to go underwater with it, it should be enough to protect it from splashing water. You could also use a double-layer thermoretractable sleeve with adhesive for extra safety.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 24 2019 6:11am

Current state of the 850C LCD firmware, which I hope to release soon another new version:

I got working the quick selection of variables to show on the graph: on the main screen, we need to click + long click on ON/OFF button and the graph title blinks, then we can select another variable by using UP and DOWN buttons. Then we leave this mode by long click on ON/OFF button.
Other than the regular variables like pedal human power, pedal cadence, battery voltage, motor power, etc, we can also select ones that are tecnhical like motor angle FOC (maybe in future this can be disabled in configurations).

I took a ride and let me show the graphs (graph shows an interval of 15 minutes) and let's learn a bit how the motor works.

On this ride I was able to go up to 47.6 kms/h:

Image


My cadence was max of about 90 RPMS:

Image



The human power max was about 150 watts:

Image


And the motor current max was:

Image


And the battery voltage, as we can see it dropped with the current peaks. (Some 0 values on the graph, must be some issue).

Image


And the motor power, was max of 704 watts (see that for I get up to the 47.6 kms/h on a light descend, I had to do 154 watts on the pedals while the motor pulled 704 watts from the battery -- assist level factor of about 4.6):

Image


The motor temperature did increase a bit after this short current peaks:

Image


Motor PWM duty-cycle (possible max value is 255):

Image


Motor ERPS (electric rotations per second), where max permitted value is 525 but with high cadence mode this value can be higher:

Image


And the FOC algorithm angle, it increases with both motor ERPS and current, this is what makes the motor to run most efficient possible, having the most torque possible for the same battery usage power and be most silent possible:

Image


And finally, the battery SOC based on Coulomb counting which has good accuracy:
Image
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

knutselmaaster   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Jul 24 2019 6:32am

Wow, that really looks great!

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 24 2019 8:49pm

There is a new developer (geeksville) working on the SW102 LCD and he is fast!! In one day the main screen is almost done:

Please note that he did a mistake and used the old design proposal that included a graph on the main screen.

View the discussion thread here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... h/issues/3

Image
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

wpenner   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Jul 24 2019 11:19pm

My motor cooked itself 2500km+ Blue gear still good. Not sure if overheated or controller cooked it. Noticed small break in yellow wire housing, maybe that shorted to the case.
0870622A-6EE3-4867-A04E-A58E228F3874.jpeg
0870622A-6EE3-4867-A04E-A58E228F3874.jpeg (124.28 KiB) Viewed 1151 times

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 25 2019 12:51am

wpenner wrote:
Jul 24 2019 11:19pm
My motor cooked itself 2500km+ Blue gear still good. Not sure if overheated or controller cooked it. Noticed small break in yellow wire housing, maybe that shorted to the case.

0870622A-6EE3-4867-A04E-A58E228F3874.jpeg
It was suddenly? Or was something slow? Maybe you need to install the temperature sensor...
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

wpenner   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Jul 25 2019 1:10am

casainho wrote:
Jul 25 2019 12:51am
wpenner wrote:
Jul 24 2019 11:19pm
My motor cooked itself 2500km+ Blue gear still good. Not sure if overheated or controller cooked it. Noticed small break in yellow wire housing, maybe that shorted to the case.

0870622A-6EE3-4867-A04E-A58E228F3874.jpeg
It was suddenly? Or was something slow? Maybe you need to install the temperature sensor...
It was all of a sudden, when changing gears I felt some resistance for 10 seconds and then stopped. I did have my motor apart a few rides ago to add the temperature sensor(was not configured yet). It seems only the wires connected to the yellow phase wire are burned near the entry. Rest or motor wires are not black, so I guess likely controller short or maybe yellow wire touched the case where housing was damaged. If was over temperature I think all wires would be black instead of just on one corner of the motor.

Black mark on motor shell:
5A37D477-E97D-405E-9122-285B728E85AF.jpeg
5A37D477-E97D-405E-9122-285B728E85AF.jpeg (112.07 KiB) Viewed 1132 times

famichiki   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 25 2019 3:20am

wpenner wrote:
Jul 24 2019 11:19pm
My motor cooked itself 2500km+ Blue gear still good. Not sure if overheated or controller cooked it. Noticed small break in yellow wire housing, maybe that shorted to the case.
Bugger, that theory sounds reasonable though. Do you have a close up of the damaged wire? Pity the new sensor wasn't working yet, it would have been interesting to know the temperature.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 25 2019 4:57am

wpenner wrote:
Jul 25 2019 1:10am
It was all of a sudden, when changing gears I felt some resistance for 10 seconds and then stopped.
I am sorry. Maybe we can improve the firmware to try avoid such situations. I will talk with other developers about this.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

mauri_78   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mauri_78 » Jul 25 2019 5:12am

Hi, i finally have upgraded my tsdz2 with open source fw!
I have a doubt regarding configuration.
What is the behaviour of 7.1 parameter?
I have read in the manual that this is the motor power limit. I have set it to 350W but i have seen on the motor power field that the instant power goes above the value that i have set.

I have the 36V 350W version of the tsdz2 powered by a 10S-5P battery made with samsung 29e cells which is the maximum power and current that i can consider to set?
Thanks in advance
Best regards

Maurizio

andrea_104kg   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andrea_104kg » Jul 25 2019 6:49am

it's not a short circuit it's just too much heat. I have repeatedly seen the temperature sensor reach 105 degrees. I think it's a miracle if my engine is still able to turn. a short circuit does not burn the windings, the motor stops first. This is the reason that led me to radical changes shown in another post. I noticed studying the sensor that the worst situation is not in off-road but in long road climbs faced at maximum power. just 1km at 8% at max power to overheat the engine.

wpenner   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Jul 25 2019 8:12am

andrea_104kg wrote:
Jul 25 2019 6:49am
it's not a short circuit it's just too much heat. I have repeatedly seen the temperature sensor reach 105 degrees. I think it's a miracle if my engine is still able to turn. a short circuit does not burn the windings, the motor stops first. This is the reason that led me to radical changes shown in another post. I noticed studying the sensor that the worst situation is not in off-road but in long road climbs faced at maximum power. just 1km at 8% at max power to overheat the engine.
It is strange because I’ve done this ride over 100 times. Yes it is steep and I did not have my temp sensor configured yet. Guessing motor is around 100c+ as I do 2Ah 48v in 10 minutes, 4km.

Isn't 80c a little conservative? Is 80c the highest known safe value, worried my motor might cut out daily on my commute at that low of a value. BUT I don't want it to burn my new one out also, so willing to reduce power output to save it. Those with temperature sensors, what do you have yours set at?
Last edited by wpenner on Jul 25 2019 11:00am, edited 6 times in total.

wpenner   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Jul 25 2019 8:16am

casainho wrote:
Jul 25 2019 4:57am
wpenner wrote:
Jul 25 2019 1:10am
It was all of a sudden, when changing gears I felt some resistance for 10 seconds and then stopped.
I am sorry. Maybe we can improve the firmware to try avoid such situations. I will talk with other developers about this.
I had glued in temp sensor 3 rides previous, but not connected it yet. Temp sensor might have stopped this from happening.

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