New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
RicMcK   100 mW

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Joined: Jun 19 2019 9:12am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » Jul 31 2019 8:31am

casainho wrote:
Jul 19 2019 3:27am
thineight wrote:
Jul 19 2019 2:07am
Very useful to put this info on the wiki!
I put it under the FAQ: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ings_codes
thineight wrote:
Jul 19 2019 2:07am
Note that my motors from late 2017 have already 2 bearings on the left side of the pedal shaft, whereas more recent ones looks they have one only. The user andrea_104kg recently added the second bearing right below the rubber protection and this helps to reduce the bending moment of the shaft.
So, on that picture we can see 1 wire of the torque sensor broken... probably you had torque sensor wires connected while disassembling, right?

Also the older versions had a different axle that includes 2 bearings and it is also longer. The torque sensor is also a bit different size on the part that fixes on the axle. Axles comparison:

Also note that I just received 2 torque sensors from PSWPower and they are clearly better for assembling, reducing the risk of damage and they have the measures to work only with this recent shafts that has only 1 bearing.

Image

I think I will add that second bearing and compare the reduce the bending moment of the shaft. Maybe we can put this as a suggestion on the wiki??
dameri wrote:
Jul 19 2019 2:43am
Is somewhere instructions how to uninstall and install main pedal shaft.
I'm going to make full service to my motor and change bearings etc.
Maybe you can look at youtube videos. I watch all of them and then played with my old motors, as I have currently 4 bicycles for all the family I have spare motors to use for spare parts, etc.

If you are going to make full service, you will then remove the torque sensor and so I suggest you to do a good calibration: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... que-sensor
I really hope we can improve the firmware in a way it will be able to use the full range of the torque sensor, including the no linear range and probably make a calibrated torque sensor to detect up to 60kg of force.

And please read that page about the torque sensor to avoid damage it, it is kind of fragile and you need to take careful when disassembling and assembling.
From what I can understand there are 2 versions of the motor - spindle. Is this true? I am asking because I want to buy a second motor for my tandem and I will need the longer drive side spindle to accommodate the linking chainring spider crank arm. And I like the 2 bearing set on the drive side, as the linking drive will be on the same side as the rear drive side (typically the linking chain is on the left side of the BB).

From the outside (without disassembling) is there a way determine which version I currently have? I think I have the long spindle version. I would like to have the second motor be the same so I can swap parts, and accomidate my dual chainring setup and the drive side chainring spider (for Tandem).

Is there a way to specify the spindle type?

Thanks
Rick Seattle WA

RicMcK   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » Jul 31 2019 12:25pm

What are these connectors called (sockets for the St-Link) and is there a place where I can buy a 5 wire version or the parts to make it? I want to make an external flashing plug for the P850C display using a set of spair 6 pin connectors
Attachments
19-07-31_10.17.36AM-1328x747.jpg
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Rick Seattle WA

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 31 2019 4:13pm

RicMcK wrote:
Jul 31 2019 12:25pm
What are these connectors called (sockets for the St-Link) and is there a place where I can buy a 5 wire version or the parts to make it? I want to make an external flashing plug for the P850C display using a set of spair 6 pin connectors
You can search in eBay for "Arduino wire" and they will appear.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 31 2019 5:11pm

casainho wrote:
Jul 31 2019 4:13pm
RicMcK wrote:
Jul 31 2019 12:25pm
What are these connectors called (sockets for the St-Link) and is there a place where I can buy a 5 wire version or the parts to make it? I want to make an external flashing plug for the P850C display using a set of spair 6 pin connectors
You can search in eBay for "Arduino wire" and they will appear.
And if you prefer, you can contact https://www.electrifybike.com that I think they will sell you and 850C already flashed with the firmware.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

pennycos   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by pennycos » Aug 01 2019 3:22am

Hi, I live in the UK and the frame clamp has just fractured (the clamp that attaches to the chainstay triangle behind the bottom bracket), I think because the bolt wasn't really long enough. Where can I get a new one? Spares are not freely available here.

casainho   1.21 GW

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Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 01 2019 3:24am

pennycos wrote:
Aug 01 2019 3:22am
Hi, I live in the UK and the frame clamp has just fractured (the clamp that attaches to the chainstay triangle behind the bottom bracket), I think because the bolt wasn't really long enough. Where can I get a new one? Spares are not freely available here.
I don't think you can buy it as a spare part.

You can make one yourself, and make one that it is even stronger. Just buy a metal bar on local shop, cut it with a metal saw and finally drill the hole. You can buy all the tools and metal bar on the same local shop.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

famichiki   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Aug 01 2019 4:21am

pennycos wrote:
Aug 01 2019 3:22am
Hi, I live in the UK and the frame clamp has just fractured (the clamp that attaches to the chainstay triangle behind the bottom bracket), I think because the bolt wasn't really long enough. Where can I get a new one? Spares are not freely available here.
You can buy plates for kickstands that mount there but some are thin and can bend. This is one of the stronger looking ones I've seen but I think they are cast so durability might also not be great.

https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/bicyc ... ide-stand/

Have a look at their other ones too.

https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/advan ... tand+plate

2013Trigger   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by 2013Trigger » Aug 01 2019 9:24am

I wanted to see if you could help me diagnose a problem. I was riding down hill and another rider was coming up. I hit my brakes hard and stopped(putting my weight into the cranks). After I got going again there was a popping noise and feel as I pedaled. I turn the motor assist to zero and the popping goes away. When I turn the assist up to 1-5 the popping immediately comes back. When I am off the saddle and roll the bicycle backwards with the motor completely off I can feel it catching. Any chance i stripped the blue gear when braking hard? This is a brand new motor by the way.

Retrorockit   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Aug 01 2019 10:09am

RicMcK wrote:
Jul 31 2019 8:31am
casainho wrote:
Jul 19 2019 3:27am
thineight wrote:
Jul 19 2019 2:07am
Very useful to put this info on the wiki!
I put it under the FAQ: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ings_codes
thineight wrote:
Jul 19 2019 2:07am
Note that my motors from late 2017 have already 2 bearings on the left side of the pedal shaft, whereas more recent ones looks they have one only. The user andrea_104kg recently added the second bearing right below the rubber protection and this helps to reduce the bending moment of the shaft.
So, on that picture we can see 1 wire of the torque sensor broken... probably you had torque sensor wires connected while disassembling, right?

Also the older versions had a different axle that includes 2 bearings and it is also longer. The torque sensor is also a bit different size on the part that fixes on the axle. Axles comparison:

Also note that I just received 2 torque sensors from PSWPower and they are clearly better for assembling, reducing the risk of damage and they have the measures to work only with this recent shafts that has only 1 bearing.

Image

I think I will add that second bearing and compare the reduce the bending moment of the shaft. Maybe we can put this as a suggestion on the wiki??
dameri wrote:
Jul 19 2019 2:43am
Is somewhere instructions how to uninstall and install main pedal shaft.
I'm going to make full service to my motor and change bearings etc.
Maybe you can look at youtube videos. I watch all of them and then played with my old motors, as I have currently 4 bicycles for all the family I have spare motors to use for spare parts, etc.

If you are going to make full service, you will then remove the torque sensor and so I suggest you to do a good calibration: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... que-sensor
I really hope we can improve the firmware in a way it will be able to use the full range of the torque sensor, including the no linear range and probably make a calibrated torque sensor to detect up to 60kg of force.

And please read that page about the torque sensor to avoid damage it, it is kind of fragile and you need to take careful when disassembling and assembling.
From what I can understand there are 2 versions of the motor - spindle. Is this true? I am asking because I want to buy a second motor for my tandem and I will need the longer drive side spindle to accommodate the linking chainring spider crank arm. And I like the 2 bearing set on the drive side, as the linking drive will be on the same side as the rear drive side (typically the linking chain is on the left side of the BB).

From the outside (without disassembling) is there a way determine which version I currently have? I think I have the long spindle version. I would like to have the second motor be the same so I can swap parts, and accomidate my dual chainring setup and the drive side chainring spider (for Tandem).

Is there a way to specify the spindle type?

Thanks
My thinking on this is that you should be able to buy a sealed bearing for the outer position, and eliminate the seal for a 2 bearing setup on the short shaft. Non hardening sealer on the outer race should help. This assumes that the shaft is machined to accept the 2nd bearing, can't tell from the photo.
If the taper is now shorter, then you should be able to mill/ drill out, or grind off the back off the Shimano cranks until the taper seats properly again. You might try this with a scrap crank first.
Narrow crank line really helps with reducing pedal strikes when going around traffic circles. Especially if you're PAS only.

Bartman   10 W

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Posts: 70
Joined: Feb 11 2018 2:38pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bartman » Aug 01 2019 10:15am

Here’s my cargo bike, specifically built for the TSDZ2. It based on an Xtracycle leap conversion of of a 26” hardcore hardtail. Most bike parts I had in my parts bin.

The new firmware v0.19 is fantastic. Thanks to all the developers. And my new TSDZ2 is really quite compared to my other 2.

I’m running a 36v motor, with 48v battery and using motor controller mode 3 - 36v experimental high cadence mode. It feels very natural compared to other ebikes I’ve tried including my other TSDZ2 motor running experiential high cadence mode 3 with a 36v battery.

One of the benefits of the long tail cargo bike is that there is no chain-line issues. The extra length means that the chainline is perfect with a standard 34t front sprocket.
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cnrd   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Apr 12 2019 5:47am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by cnrd » Aug 01 2019 1:13pm

feketehegyi wrote:
Jul 31 2019 4:01am
cnrd wrote:
Jul 31 2019 1:40am
Hey

Anyone who can help me over here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=101549 I'm trying to figure out how to take the spider off my bike, but it simply won't come off (pics and videos in that thread).
Strange indeed. I'm on the same opinion like Casainho.
Thanks, both of you, it was just a case of prying.

mauri_78   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 26
Joined: Jul 17 2018 9:47am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mauri_78 » Aug 02 2019 5:14am

Hi all,
In order to install FW mod without cutting wires and with the possibility to use the throttle and brake cut off connected on original VLCD5 bracket i have designed an adapter for KT-LCD3.
With this adapter you can plug LCD3 on VLCD5 bracket. I have also added a connector for upgrading KT-LCD3 FW without disassemble the display.
Attachments
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pennycos   1 µW

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Joined: Aug 01 2019 3:16am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by pennycos » Aug 02 2019 8:38am

casainho wrote:
Aug 01 2019 3:24am
pennycos wrote:
Aug 01 2019 3:22am
Hi, I live in the UK and the frame clamp has just fractured (the clamp that attaches to the chainstay triangle behind the bottom bracket), I think because the bolt wasn't really long enough. Where can I get a new one? Spares are not freely available here.
I don't think you can buy it as a spare part.

You can make one yourself, and make one that it is even stronger. Just buy a metal bar on local shop, cut it with a metal saw and finally drill the hole. You can buy all the tools and metal bar on the same local shop.
It's not the top bit that's broken but the cast underside that attaches to the motor. A large chip has come off the top, I think because the bolt wasn't long enough to screw right in and the amount of tension it was under caused the bolt to rock slightly. There is a very similar post on here but in that instance the top plate has become misshapen.

Retrorockit   10 W

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Posts: 80
Joined: Feb 08 2019 12:07pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Aug 02 2019 10:25am

pennycos wrote:
Aug 02 2019 8:38am
casainho wrote:
Aug 01 2019 3:24am
pennycos wrote:
Aug 01 2019 3:22am
Hi, I live in the UK and the frame clamp has just fractured (the clamp that attaches to the chainstay triangle behind the bottom bracket), I think because the bolt wasn't really long enough. Where can I get a new one? Spares are not freely available here.
I don't think you can buy it as a spare part.


It's not the top bit that's broken but the cast underside that attaches to the motor. A large chip has come off the top, I think because the bolt wasn't long enough to screw right in and the amount of tension it was under caused the bolt to rock slightly. There is a very similar post on here but in that instance the top plate has become misshapen.
You can make one yourself, and make one that it is even stronger. Just buy a metal bar on local shop, cut it with a metal saw and finally drill the hole. You can buy all the tools and metal bar on the same local shop.
I had to replace one of those to install a 2 leg center stand. A 5/16" or 8mm Heim joint rod end will bolt to the motor. Then just run a bolt of the proper length through the frame hole/top plate.

vailbiker   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by vailbiker » Aug 03 2019 12:03pm

Bartman wrote:
Aug 01 2019 10:15am
Here’s my cargo bike, specifically built for the TSDZ2. It based on an Xtracycle leap conversion of of a 26” hardcore hardtail. Most bike parts I had in my parts bin.

That build looks awesome! Nice work, thanks for sharing.

calimero73   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by calimero73 » Aug 03 2019 2:57pm

Hello to everybody, I'm Francesco my nick name Calimero73 :-), from Sicily Island in South of Italy.I'm New user of endless. I have the 36v and 350W tsdz2 with vlcd5 display, I recently modified the stock fw with morcoq Java configurator, the latest one.. I'm very happy of my installation, and very compliment and congratulation to the major actor of this tsdz2 adventure. Thank you very much. :-)

emr   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by emr » Aug 03 2019 11:47pm

Here is the programming cable I made.
Approx 100mm long.
Using the ribbon cable plug avoids any chance of incorrect connection.
Connecting to the laptop using USB extension cable.
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andrea_104kg   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andrea_104kg » Aug 04 2019 8:10am

Very good cable!

cnrd   10 mW

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Joined: Apr 12 2019 5:47am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by cnrd » Aug 04 2019 5:53pm

Hey I installed the custom firmware.

I got the firmware flashed and wires set up, but now there is no motor power at all.

The KT-LCD3 turns on and seems to work.

It is showing speed correctly but motor power is stuck at 0 and there is no help.


Anyone know how I can figure out what the problem is?
Last edited by cnrd on Aug 05 2019 1:31am, edited 1 time in total.

btslo   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by btslo » Aug 05 2019 1:25am

cnrd wrote:
Aug 04 2019 5:53pm
Hey I installed the custom firmware.

I got the firmware flashed and wires set up, but now there is no motor power at all.

The KT-LCD3 turns on and seems to work.

It is showing speed correctly but motor power is stuck at 0 and there is no help.
Make sure you configured everything on the LCD, especially max motor power. Mine was set to 0 and had the same issue.

cnrd   10 mW

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Joined: Apr 12 2019 5:47am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by cnrd » Aug 05 2019 1:35am

btslo wrote:
Aug 05 2019 1:25am
cnrd wrote:
Aug 04 2019 5:53pm
Hey I installed the custom firmware.

I got the firmware flashed and wires set up, but now there is no motor power at all.

The KT-LCD3 turns on and seems to work.

It is showing speed correctly but motor power is stuck at 0 and there is no help.
Make sure you configured everything on the LCD, especially max motor power. Mine was set to 0 and had the same issue.
Is it the one called "Motor power limit"?

My assumption was that having that set to 0 would mean that it would just use the amp limit * battery voltage as the max limit.

rba   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by rba » Aug 05 2019 1:58am

mauri_78 wrote:
Aug 02 2019 5:14am
Hi all,
In order to install FW mod without cutting wires and with the possibility to use the throttle and brake cut off connected on original VLCD5 bracket i have designed an adapter for KT-LCD3.
With this adapter you can plug LCD3 on VLCD5 bracket. I have also added a connector for upgrading KT-LCD3 FW without disassemble the display.
Hi mauri,

excellent setup!! can you please share the 3d print files?

what did you use for pogo pins ? also please share the wiring from the VLCD5 bracket to KTLCD3 as well as to the connectors (do you have any?) for the brake cutoffs and throttle.

thanks,
Bogdan

btslo   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by btslo » Aug 05 2019 2:03am

cnrd wrote:
Aug 05 2019 1:35am
btslo wrote:
Aug 05 2019 1:25am
cnrd wrote:
Aug 04 2019 5:53pm
Hey I installed the custom firmware.

I got the firmware flashed and wires set up, but now there is no motor power at all.

The KT-LCD3 turns on and seems to work.

It is showing speed correctly but motor power is stuck at 0 and there is no help.
Make sure you configured everything on the LCD, especially max motor power. Mine was set to 0 and had the same issue.
Is it the one called "Motor power limit"?

My assumption was that having that set to 0 would mean that it would just use the amp limit * battery voltage as the max limit.
Yes.

I thought so too but that's not the case. :) It's set to 250W in the 0.20 version to avoid these problems.

rba   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by rba » Aug 05 2019 3:04am

Hi guys,

i have tried out the brass gear for tsdz2 with some disappointing results.... what you see in the picture has happened on a 20km trip from the moment i installed the gear. as you can see, the gear was very well lubricated with silicon grease, however it still chewed itself away.
it is true that my brass gear had about 5 teeth marred up at one side because of banging around during transport, however i did file the dings and messed area back in shape before installing and checked as much as i could it did not bind.
the noise was initially slightly higher than the blue gear, but uniform with the rotation of the gear (no regular crunching/binding noise corresponding to the reshaped areas of the marred up teeth ), and rather pleasant, but that quickly turned into a heavier sound, and finally into grinding sound on my commute back.

i wonder what can be wrong here... i have run the original blue gear for 1300km before trying the brass one without any problem. after the mishap with brass one i have reverted to the original blue gear i have another 400km without any issues. I'm using same silicon grease for both gears (http://www.cx80.pl/en/products/greases- ... etail.html)

i want to mention that i do commute 20km a day and i do cruise at around 35-40kmh (42t chainring 11t gear 26" with assist set a 100% of human input power) loaded with 20-30kg single wheel bike trailer, so the blue gear does not have an easy job, however performs flawlessly while the brass one failed miserably within one day commute

did this ever happen to any of you ? any idea what may be wrong here ?
i don't think I can blame any geometry issue (bad casing or bad bearing housing machining causing misalignment of gear axis ) as the nylon gear performs flawlessly. i also checked the bearings (motor side, case side, inside brass and nylon gear, small pinion bearing) all are fine and have no significant play...
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mauri_78   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mauri_78 » Aug 05 2019 3:17am

rba wrote:
Aug 05 2019 1:58am
mauri_78 wrote:
Aug 02 2019 5:14am
Hi all,
In order to install FW mod without cutting wires and with the possibility to use the throttle and brake cut off connected on original VLCD5 bracket i have designed an adapter for KT-LCD3.
With this adapter you can plug LCD3 on VLCD5 bracket. I have also added a connector for upgrading KT-LCD3 FW without disassemble the display.
Hi mauri,

excellent setup!! can you please share the 3d print files?

what did you use for pogo pins ? also please share the wiring from the VLCD5 bracket to KTLCD3 as well as to the connectors (do you have any?) for the brake cutoffs and throttle.

thanks,
Bogdan
Hi rba, for sure i can share stl files, i will upload them to thingverse. I have used the pogopins that i had in my home... i can measure with caliper the diameter, lenght ecc.
Abou the wiring i made a lot of photos, so this isn't a problem. Till now i don't have brake switch but i can easily connect them on original vlcd5 connector.

Maurizio

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