New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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cnrd   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by cnrd » Aug 05 2019 3:21am

btslo wrote:
Aug 05 2019 2:03am
cnrd wrote:
Aug 05 2019 1:35am
btslo wrote:
Aug 05 2019 1:25am
cnrd wrote:
Aug 04 2019 5:53pm
Hey I installed the custom firmware.

I got the firmware flashed and wires set up, but now there is no motor power at all.

The KT-LCD3 turns on and seems to work.

It is showing speed correctly but motor power is stuck at 0 and there is no help.
Make sure you configured everything on the LCD, especially max motor power. Mine was set to 0 and had the same issue.
Is it the one called "Motor power limit"?

My assumption was that having that set to 0 would mean that it would just use the amp limit * battery voltage as the max limit.
Yes.

I thought so too but that's not the case. :) It's set to 250W in the 0.20 version to avoid these problems.
Hmm nope it did not fix it. It was already at 250.

However I looked in menu 9, it seems like both cadence and torque changes, however human power is stuck at 0. Could that be related?

mctubster   100 W

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Q Factor offset and potential fixes

Post by mctubster » Aug 05 2019 5:01pm

I have been obsessing over Q Factor for some time now. I bought some replacement cranks and measured against the bundled TSDZ2 cranks. Here are the results for my bike with bottom bracket width 70mm.

Original TSDZ2 crank arms (edited to make clearer)
206mm (offset 26mm to the right)

Shimano crank arm drive side (Shimano STePS FC-E6000) (kept original TSDZ2 crank arm non drive side to decrease the offset)
199mm (offset 19mm to the right)

Bafang straight crank arm drive side (AC08-2) (kept original TSDZ2 crank arm non drive side to decrease the offset)
193mm (offset 13mm to the right)

I am considering adding a 15mm peddle spacer to the non drive side resulting in Q Factor of 208mm with offset of 2mm to the left

I recorded a video, just need to edit.

Cheers
Last edited by mctubster on Aug 05 2019 6:40pm, edited 1 time in total.

famichiki   100 mW

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Re: Q Factor offset and potential fixes

Post by famichiki » Aug 05 2019 6:34pm

mctubster wrote:
Aug 05 2019 5:01pm
I have been obsessing over Q Factor for some time now. I bought some replacement cranks and measured against the bundled TSDZ2 cranks. Here are the results for my bike with bottom bracket width 70mm.
Did you take a measurement before the conversion for comparison?

mctubster   100 W

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Re: Q Factor offset and potential fixes

Post by mctubster » Aug 05 2019 6:37pm

famichiki wrote:
Aug 05 2019 6:34pm
mctubster wrote:
Aug 05 2019 5:01pm
I have been obsessing over Q Factor for some time now. I bought some replacement cranks and measured against the bundled TSDZ2 cranks. Here are the results for my bike with bottom bracket width 70mm.
Did you take a measurement before the conversion for comparison?
Yes the first one
Original crank arms
206mm (offset 26mm to the right)

famichiki   100 mW

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Re: Q Factor offset and potential fixes

Post by famichiki » Aug 05 2019 6:50pm

mctubster wrote:
Aug 05 2019 6:37pm
Yes the first one
Original crank arms
206mm (offset 26mm to the right)
I meant, before adding the motor. What the human-powered bike originally came with. Isn't that measurement after you added the motor & TSDZ2 crank arms?

willQ   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by willQ » Aug 05 2019 7:30pm

Hi,

New to this forum. Regarding Q factor, does anyone know if the BBSHD chainring will fit the TSDZ2? They have more selection of chainrings.

Retrorockit   10 W

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Re: Q Factor offset and potential fixes

Post by Retrorockit » Aug 05 2019 8:22pm

mctubster wrote:
Aug 05 2019 5:01pm
I have been obsessing over Q Factor for some time now. I bought some replacement cranks and measured against the bundled TSDZ2 cranks. Here are the results for my bike with bottom bracket width 70mm.

Original TSDZ2 crank arms (edited to make clearer)
206mm (offset 26mm to the right)

Shimano crank arm drive side (Shimano STePS FC-E6000) (kept original TSDZ2 crank arm non drive side to decrease the offset)
199mm (offset 19mm to the right)

Bafang straight crank arm drive side (AC08-2) (kept original TSDZ2 crank arm non drive side to decrease the offset)
193mm (offset 13mm to the right)

I am considering adding a 15mm peddle spacer to the non drive side resulting in Q Factor of 208mm with offset of 2mm to the left

I recorded a video, just need to edit.

Cheers
Thanks for posting those numbers. The RH Bafang crank is exactly what I'm running on my TSDZ2 bike. I switched to Shimano cranks on my BBSHD to get 175mm cranks, so my pedal strike situation is worse due to that also. Do you have the normal older TSDZ2 or the new narrow version? I've noticed that some of the E bike cranks are thicker than the threads on some of my pedals. This opens up the possibilty of a counter bore to sink the pedals into the crank arm some. These pedals tighten with an Allen wrench from the back side.
https://lunacycle.com/cnc-luna-perfect-pedals/

mctubster   100 W

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Re: Q Factor offset and potential fixes

Post by mctubster » Aug 05 2019 10:24pm

famichiki wrote:
Aug 05 2019 6:50pm
mctubster wrote:
Aug 05 2019 6:37pm
Yes the first one
Original crank arms
206mm (offset 26mm to the right)
I meant, before adding the motor. What the human-powered bike originally came with. Isn't that measurement after you added the motor & TSDZ2 crank arms?
Ah sorry correct. I don't have the original measurement. It was a pretty standard setup, I would have guessed 170-180mm. I am more worried about fixing the offset, rather than the actual Q Factor itself. I only ride with flats on the TSDZ2 bike now so my feet go naturally where they need to.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: Q Factor offset and potential fixes

Post by mctubster » Aug 05 2019 10:37pm

Retrorockit wrote:
Aug 05 2019 8:22pm

Thanks for posting those numbers. The RH Bafang crank is exactly what I'm running on my TSDZ2 bike. I switched to Shimano cranks on my BBSHD to get 175mm cranks, so my pedal strike situation is worse due to that also. Do you have the normal older TSDZ2 or the new narrow version? I've noticed that some of the E bike cranks are thicker than the threads on some of my pedals. This opens up the possibilty of a counter bore to sink the pedals into the crank arm some. These pedals tighten with an Allen wrench from the back side.
https://lunacycle.com/cnc-luna-perfect-pedals/
Interesting - thank you for the heads up. Any idea how much narrower the new TSDZ2 is? I'm pretty sure I have the original. That could help the offset or the difference could all be on the non-drive side? I would love to get to zero offset with 180-190 Q Factor.

I have some flat pedals where the pedal body is right up against the crank arm as an option too. The are mountain bike pedals, so I would need to unscrew the crazy sharp pins and replace with something less aggressive or my day shoes will die!

Retrorockit   10 W

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Re: Q Factor offset and potential fixes

Post by Retrorockit » Aug 06 2019 10:22am

mctubster wrote:
Aug 05 2019 10:37pm
Retrorockit wrote:
Aug 05 2019 8:22pm

Thanks for posting those numbers. The RH Bafang crank is exactly what I'm running on my TSDZ2 bike. I switched to Shimano cranks on my BBSHD to get 175mm cranks, so my pedal strike situation is worse due to that also. Do you have the normal older TSDZ2 or the new narrow version? I've noticed that some of the E bike cranks are thicker than the threads on some of my pedals. This opens up the possibilty of a counter bore to sink the pedals into the crank arm some. These pedals tighten with an Allen wrench from the back side.
https://lunacycle.com/cnc-luna-perfect-pedals/
Interesting - thank you for the heads up. Any idea how much narrower the new TSDZ2 is? I'm pretty sure I have the original. That could help the offset or the difference could all be on the non-drive side? I would love to get to zero offset with 180-190 Q Factor.

I have some flat pedals where the pedal body is right up against the crank arm as an option too. The are mountain bike pedals, so I would need to unscrew the crazy sharp pins and replace with something less aggressive or my day shoes will die!
They're just small metric bolts with a pin on top. You could put button head capscrews or regular hex head bolts in there. Due to the power of their kits Luna caters to the offroad market. I'm sure there are other back fastened pedals out there. I wear ankle boots with a flat rubber sole and have seen no damage from the pins on those. I'm almost as securely attached as clip type pedals, but I can move my foot around and step off quickly when needed.
I might order a set of 170mm Shimano cranks and have the couterbore done. I'm used to 175mm and to extend range and leave some battery for the fast parts of my ride home I ride around with power off quite a bit. But I am getting old and my knees do get sore form this on long rides so maybe 170 will work as well or better for me. This is on my BBSHD bike though.

Retrorockit   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Aug 06 2019 10:51am

While converting my Nexus 7 IGH bike to 8 speed Nexus I came across an interetsing IGH hub.
Shimano makes a 5 speed IGH. It's interesting because it's E bike rated. Probably world spec. 350W.
1st gear is direct and the rest overdrive, which makes it suitable for folding bikes with small dia wheels. It's Di2 electric shift compatable also. The direct 1st is probably very strong, so good for traffic light launches. It's 5 speeds are in the same size shell as the nexus8, and Alfine 11 hubs. Steel shell, or aluminum are options. It seems to be targeted at the Japanese market so far. The axle end shifter "casette" mechanism has the same part# as the 8 speed stuff.
Husqvarna has a step through E bike with the battery vertically mounted behind the seat tube and this hub with disc brakes. IDK about Di2 or belt drive options? But it looks nice.
https://www.husqvarna-bicycles.com/en-I ... lYear=2019

mauri_78   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mauri_78 » Aug 06 2019 11:56am

Hi all,
I have a problem with my TSDZ2, after 1500km it bacame noisy...
I have suspected some problems in ball bearings or in blue gear so i have totally disassembled the motor but all is ok!
the blu gear is still perfect and all the ball bearing are ok. I have also opened the brushless motor in order to check internal bearings!
Doing some tests i have noted that the noise come from gears, in particuler from the coupling between main gear and the little gear inserted in blue gear.
I have also noted that as soon as i mounted the tsdz2 there was a little distance between the bike frame and the motor, now the motor is in contact with frame. Is possible that with the use the motor's carter is deformed so now the mian gear is becoming noisy?
Someone has the same problem? How can i solve?
best regards

Maurizio

knutselmaaster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Aug 06 2019 1:05pm

Retrorockit wrote:
Aug 06 2019 10:51am
While converting my Nexus 7 IGH bike to 8 speed Nexus I came across an interetsing IGH hub.
Shimano makes a 5 speed IGH. It's interesting because it's E bike rated. Probably world spec. 350W.
1st gear is direct and the rest overdrive, which makes it suitable for folding bikes with small dia wheels. It's Di2 electric shift compatable also. The direct 1st is probably very strong, so good for traffic light launches. It's 5 speeds are in the same size shell as the nexus8, and Alfine 11 hubs. Steel shell, or aluminum are options. It seems to be targeted at the Japanese market so far. The axle end shifter "casette" mechanism has the same part# as the 8 speed stuff.
Husqvarna has a step through E bike with the battery vertically mounted behind the seat tube and this hub with disc brakes. IDK about Di2 or belt drive options? But it looks nice.
https://www.husqvarna-bicycles.com/en-I ... lYear=2019
This is a new type of hub, it is available on some of the 2020 models from my suppliers that are starting to get announced.
It is indeed an IGH that has been developed for (city bikes with) mid motors where it is more important to have a resistance to the increased power and durability than to have a lot of gears.
And yes, there is a possibility for belt drive also.

nukezero   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by nukezero » Aug 06 2019 4:43pm

I am interested in converting my cruiser bike coaster brake shimano 3spd IGH to the TSDZ2 motor with coaster brake.

Where are you guys buying your kits from? Aliexpress? That is the cheapest I've found so far for ~$330 USD. USA dealers want over $500.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: Q Factor offset and potential fixes

Post by mctubster » Aug 06 2019 5:30pm

Retrorockit wrote:
Aug 06 2019 10:22am

They're just small metric bolts with a pin on top. You could put button head capscrews or regular hex head bolts in there. Due to the power of their kits Luna caters to the offroad market. I'm sure there are other back fastened pedals out there. I wear ankle boots with a flat rubber sole and have seen no damage from the pins on those. I'm almost as securely attached as clip type pedals, but I can move my foot around and step off quickly when needed.
I might order a set of 170mm Shimano cranks and have the couterbore done. I'm used to 175mm and to extend range and leave some battery for the fast parts of my ride home I ride around with power off quite a bit. But I am getting old and my knees do get sore form this on long rides so maybe 170 will work as well or better for me. This is on my BBSHD bike though.
Thank you for the ideas. I was surprised how sharp the edges of my pins are. I could cut my finger on the top edge if I tried. Also I learnt a new term "button head capscrews"! I know them but did not have a name for them. I will try my flats as they are with some older shoes and see what happens

Yes I have taken to riding with assist off on the flats, as have stopped mountain biking currently. If headwind or hills with the kids I get some help ;)
Love that the TSDZ2 has a second clutch so the motor isn't rotating at all times

arzt506   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by arzt506 » Aug 06 2019 8:52pm

Hi everyone.

I just bought a 52V TSDZ2 750W motor and I bought a battery from a reputable local shop that is a 16.5 AH 52V battery. The guy at the shop said I should be careful using it with my motor as the battery has a 40A BMS and it might overpower the TSDZ2. Any thoughts on this and if it's an issue ideas on how I might resolve? I just assumed that if the battery was the right voltage there would be no issue as the motor would only draw the current it needs. As long as I'm not going crazy (I do not plan to be maxing this motor out) I assume current shouldn't be too much of an issue.. any insights greatly appreciated. thanks.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Aug 06 2019 9:42pm

arzt506 wrote:
Aug 06 2019 8:52pm
Hi everyone.

I just bought a 52V TSDZ2 750W motor and I bought a battery from a reputable local shop that is a 16.5 AH 52V battery. The guy at the shop said I should be careful using it with my motor as the battery has a 40A BMS and it might overpower the TSDZ2. Any thoughts on this and if it's an issue ideas on how I might resolve? I just assumed that if the battery was the right voltage there would be no issue as the motor would only draw the current it needs. As long as I'm not going crazy (I do not plan to be maxing this motor out) I assume current shouldn't be too much of an issue.. any insights greatly appreciated. thanks.
Yes you are correct, the motor draws the current it needs and the BMS is sized large enough to not cause any issues ... ie the motor draws 750/52= 15A max, well below the protection limit of 40A of the BMS.

arzt506   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by arzt506 » Aug 07 2019 1:37am

mctubster wrote:
Aug 06 2019 9:42pm
arzt506 wrote:
Aug 06 2019 8:52pm
Hi everyone.

I just bought a 52V TSDZ2 750W motor and I bought a battery from a reputable local shop that is a 16.5 AH 52V battery. The guy at the shop said I should be careful using it with my motor as the battery has a 40A BMS and it might overpower the TSDZ2. Any thoughts on this and if it's an issue ideas on how I might resolve? I just assumed that if the battery was the right voltage there would be no issue as the motor would only draw the current it needs. As long as I'm not going crazy (I do not plan to be maxing this motor out) I assume current shouldn't be too much of an issue.. any insights greatly appreciated. thanks.
Yes you are correct, the motor draws the current it needs and the BMS is sized large enough to not cause any issues ... ie the motor draws 750/52= 15A max, well below the protection limit of 40A of the BMS.
awesome thanks for the quick help! Got it all up and running this evening. Love this motor! Honestly I like it better than the bosch systems I've ridden. Maybe a tad less responsive and a bit more jerky at times, but I love the extra power and having the throttle at the ready is super nice.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Aug 07 2019 2:38am

nukezero wrote:
Aug 06 2019 4:43pm
I am interested in converting my cruiser bike coaster brake shimano 3spd IGH to the TSDZ2 motor with coaster brake.

Where are you guys buying your kits from? Aliexpress? That is the cheapest I've found so far for ~$330 USD. USA dealers want over $500.
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo-s210032

ezrider1199   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ezrider1199 » Aug 08 2019 11:14am

Hi, I was trying to install an accessory front light (DIY) and seeing some strange stuff. When the LCD3 light is on, the accessory voltage is 2v however when LCD3 light is off the voltage is jumping around 6-9v. And when the LCD3 light is off, i plug in my light the voltage just drops to 0. Is this normal?? I'm pretty puzzled by this, especially since my light works fine via a bench power supply (tested 4-10v)...

The lights are dual LEDs that i had them wired in series at first and then in parallel. The series didnt work out because the first light was taking all the voltage i assume. But the parallel should work (tested via bench power supply). I hope i didnt mess anything up... rest of the bike works A+

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 08 2019 11:30am

ezrider1199 wrote:
Aug 08 2019 11:14am
Hi, I was trying to install an accessory front light (DIY) and seeing some strange stuff. When the LCD3 light is on, the accessory voltage is 2v however when LCD3 light is off the voltage is jumping around 6-9v. And when the LCD3 light is off, i plug in my light the voltage just drops to 0. Is this normal?? I'm pretty puzzled by this, especially since my light works fine via a bench power supply (tested 4-10v)...

The lights are dual LEDs that i had them wired in series at first and then in parallel. The series didnt work out because the first light was taking all the voltage i assume. But the parallel should work (tested via bench power supply). I hope i didnt mess anything up... rest of the bike works A+
Maybe it is the current controller on the hardware of TSDZ2 motor controller. You need to make sure that lights don't ask more current than what the controller can provide.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

dameri   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Aug 08 2019 12:36pm

Where I can find this axle? It’s blue gear axle which goes to big gear.
I asked PSWPOWER but they don’t have it.
AxletoBigGear.JPG
AxletoBigGear.JPG (142.5 KiB) Viewed 597 times

ezrider1199   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ezrider1199 » Aug 08 2019 12:44pm

I attached a red LED to the accessory light wiring and it seems to be always on (dim and fluctuating) even if the LCD3 is off. Turning the LCD3 light on doesnt change the status of the LED... could the accessory light control on the TSDZ2 be kaput?
casainho wrote:
Aug 08 2019 11:30am
ezrider1199 wrote:
Aug 08 2019 11:14am
Hi, I was trying to install an accessory front light (DIY) and seeing some strange stuff. When the LCD3 light is on, the accessory voltage is 2v however when LCD3 light is off the voltage is jumping around 6-9v. And when the LCD3 light is off, i plug in my light the voltage just drops to 0. Is this normal?? I'm pretty puzzled by this, especially since my light works fine via a bench power supply (tested 4-10v)...

The lights are dual LEDs that i had them wired in series at first and then in parallel. The series didnt work out because the first light was taking all the voltage i assume. But the parallel should work (tested via bench power supply). I hope i didnt mess anything up... rest of the bike works A+
Maybe it is the current controller on the hardware of TSDZ2 motor controller. You need to make sure that lights don't ask more current than what the controller can provide.

ezrider1199   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ezrider1199 » Aug 08 2019 12:49pm

dameri wrote:
Aug 08 2019 12:36pm
Where I can find this axle? It’s blue gear axle which goes to big gear.
I asked PSWPOWER but they don’t have it.

AxletoBigGear.JPG
Maybe this will help. I searched for TSDZ2 shaft here's a result, https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?ca ... _new_app=y

QuirkyOrk   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by QuirkyOrk » Aug 08 2019 6:11pm

Here in Boston we just had the hottest July on record, so I took it upon myself to do a thermal management mod for the TSDZ2. I was routinely having to dial back my assist usage to stay below 75C on my 23 mile (37km) round trip commute so I decided I would do something about the TSDZ2's awful thermal management (Love the motor overall though).

What I ended up doing was two things...

-I filled the air gap around the motor with a thermally conductive silicone pad so that it now has something to shed the heat to the outer casing other than a not very thermally conductive pocket of air.

-I attached some aluminum fins to the casing of the TSDZ2 so it will cool down quicker. To do this I sanded down the casing to the bare aluminum and then attached some aluminum electronics heatsinks with a thermally conductive epoxy. These work very well as there is constantly air flowing by the bike as it moves along.

These two things have made a huge difference. I pushed the motor extremely hard on my commute yesterday at 4x power multiplier and it never got above 58C. Before when I would use the bike at a much lower assist level I would be right below 75 by the time I got to work.

I attached some crappy phone pictures below. if there is enough interest I could do some DIY instructions, but overall it was not a very complicated process.
IMG_20190807_104330 copy.jpg
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Last edited by QuirkyOrk on Aug 09 2019 9:24am, edited 1 time in total.

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