New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
redline1   10 µW

10 µW
Posts: 5
Joined: Jul 29 2019 11:52am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by redline1 » Aug 19 2019 2:53pm

I just want to post a thank you to Casianho and any other developer involved. This is an amazing upgrade to an already great piece of hardware.

I have a TSDZ2 mounted to an Xtracycle Edgerunner and it is nearly perfect now.

The open source firmware with an LCD3 display gives me the flexibility to make the assist so natural it is like an extension of my legs. It is especially good on a cargo bike where you need varying assist and smoothness is more important than pure output.

After reading many pages of tech info and opinions, I decided to go for it. I was satisfied with the stock firmware, but I always like adding a new skill to my set and flashing firmware with an ST Link is right up my alley.

I hope I can save everyone on the fence the effort and say to UPGRADE if you can.

1. High cadence performance is so much better. I can actually get power at my 90rpm cadence.

2. Ramp up is much slower, on default settings. It feels more natural and will hopefully spare my drivetrain for a while.

3. The volt meter is very helpful. Battery bars on stock displays are worthless. I ride big hills so mileage is not the best indicator of battery capacity.

4. Customization of assist is great. I ride with my daughter as a passenger and my wife on a normal bike. I can tone down the assist to make a level field. I also boost is to the max when I am solo with lots of cargo.

5. I can set a true 10 amp max. I live in a hilly, hot, desert city and don't want to cook the motor. I feel safe with 480 watts all day. I tested the max amps with stock firmware with a meter and it went to 15 regardless of settings.

My advice is to just go for it.

The display is simple to flash. Just plug in the pins and go. Erase the old and flash the new.

The motor took some tinkering. I built a harness from a speedometer extension, but ended up using bare arduino wires directly to the pins. I think shorter cables helped.

To connect the display, I used the WIKI and soldered the wires to the pigtail cut from the stock LCD5. Now it is plug and play. The wire diagram was correct for my unit. YMMV.

Heat shrink tubing is your friend! Clean cabling ties it all together.
Attachments
1.jpg
1.jpg (200.73 KiB) Viewed 1291 times
2.jpg
2.jpg (213.91 KiB) Viewed 1291 times
3.jpg
3.jpg (217.98 KiB) Viewed 1291 times
4.jpg
4.jpg (171.02 KiB) Viewed 1291 times

nukezero   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 556
Joined: Jul 02 2013 5:00pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by nukezero » Aug 19 2019 3:43pm

I received the motor today from PSWPower.

How do I confirm that I received the "Brake Coaster" version? On the bottom label, it says:
Middle Motor TSDZ2
DC36v 4000rpm BK

Does the BK mean coaster version?

Secondly, I try to do an initial fit into a BB converted euro adapter. It was very tight and did not want to go in. Is this normal? I feel like if I force it, it may damage the thread on the TSDZ2. This is the adapter I am using. It converts American BB (cruiser bikes) to Euro BB:
bb adapter.jpg
bb adapter.jpg (26.9 KiB) Viewed 1284 times

josch91   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 1
Joined: Aug 19 2019 4:12pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by josch91 » Aug 19 2019 4:18pm

Is it possible to use the original display after flashing?

I have a 14s2p battery and need to flash so I can use this battery fully charged. Otherwise the controller will not work above 56 Volts.

nukezero   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 556
Joined: Jul 02 2013 5:00pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by nukezero » Aug 19 2019 8:07pm

HELP!

Just got the TSDZ2 motor and my American bottom bracket. I bought a Euro adapter and while the hole seems to line up, but there is not enough clearance for the motor and bottom bracket adapter. The motor hits the casing of the lower bottom bracket.

I remember seeing someone selling an offset bottom bracket adapter that offsets the hole downward so you can clear it. Does anyone know where that link is?

TOLM   1 W

1 W
Posts: 59
Joined: Jul 01 2018 6:13pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by TOLM » Aug 19 2019 8:20pm

nukezero wrote:
Aug 19 2019 8:07pm
HELP!

Just got the TSDZ2 motor and my American bottom bracket. I bought a Euro adapter and while the hole seems to line up, but there is not enough clearance for the motor and bottom bracket adapter. The motor hits the casing of the lower bottom bracket.

I remember seeing someone selling an offset bottom bracket adapter that offsets the hole downward so you can clear it. Does anyone know where that link is?
I know cannondale hooligan has an offset excentric adaptor that hosts a bsa 68 mm bb. You can google for specific bb adapter.

mctubster   100 W

100 W
Posts: 226
Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Aug 19 2019 9:15pm

nukezero wrote:
Aug 19 2019 8:07pm
HELP!

Just got the TSDZ2 motor and my American bottom bracket. I bought a Euro adapter and while the hole seems to line up, but there is not enough clearance for the motor and bottom bracket adapter. The motor hits the casing of the lower bottom bracket.

I remember seeing someone selling an offset bottom bracket adapter that offsets the hole downward so you can clear it. Does anyone know where that link is?
This? https://lunacycle.com/american-style-ec ... a-adapter/

nukezero   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 556
Joined: Jul 02 2013 5:00pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by nukezero » Aug 19 2019 10:24pm

mctubster wrote:
Aug 19 2019 9:15pm
nukezero wrote:
Aug 19 2019 8:07pm
HELP!

Just got the TSDZ2 motor and my American bottom bracket. I bought a Euro adapter and while the hole seems to line up, but there is not enough clearance for the motor and bottom bracket adapter. The motor hits the casing of the lower bottom bracket.

I remember seeing someone selling an offset bottom bracket adapter that offsets the hole downward so you can clear it. Does anyone know where that link is?
This? https://lunacycle.com/american-style-ec ... a-adapter/

Yes!!! That’s the one. Except I read some terrible reviews on Yelp and FaceBook about Luna. Are they still reliable? Takes 3-5 days to ship out.

Does anyone recommend buying the Bushnell version? Or are there any other versions available and readily available to ship???

mctubster   100 W

100 W
Posts: 226
Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Aug 19 2019 10:48pm

nukezero wrote:
Aug 19 2019 10:24pm

Yes!!! That’s the one. Except I read some terrible reviews on Yelp and FaceBook about Luna. Are they still reliable? Takes 3-5 days to ship out.

Does anyone recommend buying the Bushnell version? Or are there any other versions available and readily available to ship???
Not sure about Luna. As long as this part fits you're not going to need much after sales support?

Please double check sizing though. I did a really quick search

Not many eccentric adaptors around for US to EU I'm guessing

nukezero   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 556
Joined: Jul 02 2013 5:00pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by nukezero » Aug 19 2019 10:55pm

mctubster wrote:
Aug 19 2019 10:48pm
nukezero wrote:
Aug 19 2019 10:24pm

Yes!!! That’s the one. Except I read some terrible reviews on Yelp and FaceBook about Luna. Are they still reliable? Takes 3-5 days to ship out.

Does anyone recommend buying the Bushnell version? Or are there any other versions available and readily available to ship???
Not sure about Luna. As long as this part fits you're not going to need much after sales support?

Please double check sizing though. I did a really quick search

Not many eccentric adaptors around for US to EU I'm guessing
My entire bottom bracket housing is 73mm width by 56.64mm.

There is this Bushnell eccentric BB which may work. But at $126.81+tax, it is incredibly hard to swallow. Yeah, I'm having a tough time finding "Ashtabula" bottom bracket adapters.

https://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Eccentr ... NrPXRydWU=


Okay, I just ordered the Luna Cycle one.


nukezero   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 556
Joined: Jul 02 2013 5:00pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by nukezero » Aug 20 2019 1:40am

Looking over the TSDZ2 kit, I got most of the accessories installed. Other than the motor, which I need to wait for the bb eccentric adapter from Luna.

Does anyone know what to do about the dual Y splitter on the speed sensor? I see that one is plugged into the motor and the other end supposed to go into the supplies lights cable. But I don't have any lights. So what is the solution to cover up that male connect on the Y splitter? Seems like it should've came with a cap as lights are optional.

Flaar   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Aug 16 2019 9:43am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Flaar » Aug 20 2019 2:30pm

Hi,

broken motor case here, despite steel plate being correcly attached and nut tight when it happened. I'm waiting for a spare case from Tongsheng.
motor mount.jpg
motor mount.jpg (176.79 KiB) Viewed 1154 times
In the mean time I'm trying to find out how to take the motor appart. Is there a video or exploded view, or instructions explaining that in detail ?
Will there be any press fit parts on my way or is it a matter of only c-clips ?
broken motor.jpg
broken motor.jpg (224.81 KiB) Viewed 1154 times
I have also found this spring falling from the broken parts, any idea where it could come from ?
spring.jpg
spring.jpg (135.11 KiB) Viewed 1154 times
Thanks for your help

casainho   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3929
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 20 2019 2:49pm

Search on YouTube how to replace the main gear, see the latest videos.

That spring is from the torque sensor and looking at the picture, the wire may break soon, you need to be very careful. Read the wiki in how to calibrate the torque sensor to understand how to deal with it.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Flaar   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Aug 16 2019 9:43am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Flaar » Aug 20 2019 4:14pm

casainho wrote:
Aug 20 2019 2:49pm
Search on YouTube how to replace the main gear, see the latest videos.

That spring is from the torque sensor and looking at the picture, the wire may break soon, you need to be very careful. Read the wiki in how to calibrate the torque sensor to understand how to deal with it.
Thanks, great finds on videos and on the wiki, the TSDZ2 repair manual is a must have.
The torque sensor calibration is intimidating. But I'm not sure. Does it have to take place because the torque sensor has to be removed (even if we don't touch its position) , or because we want to optimize the motor comportment ?
I hadn't the chance to intall the new firmware yet, but I guess I have to do it first in order to access to the ADC value right ?

AlessandroEmm   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 1
Joined: Aug 21 2019 4:15am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AlessandroEmm » Aug 21 2019 4:47am

Hey there

I know many asked this in the past but I haven't found any recent comment of user who use the oss firmware:
How are these holding up? I plan on converting a cargobike and most people suggest to use the bbs0x since they are supposedly holding up better with higher torque, well heat requirements. Can anyone chime in and explain how well a limited (with the firmware) motor holds up?

Thanks a lot!
Alessandro

raylo32   100 W

100 W
Posts: 112
Joined: Jan 04 2019 3:09pm

Question for OSF plug and play setup

Post by raylo32 » Aug 21 2019 10:08am

I am going to order one of the OSF plug and play controller and display setups from Electrify Bike, probably with 850C display, but have one question: will my original LCD5 cutoff brake levers and throttle plug into this new setup? Or do I need to order those parts (or connectors to splice) that are specific to this? The web site isn't clear on that detail.

I have put off doing the upgrade because of needing to splice into the existing controller. This way I can keep that intact (except for maybe having to cut the plug off to remove it from the motor) in case I want to revert at some point.

casainho   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3929
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: Question for OSF plug and play setup

Post by casainho » Aug 21 2019 10:24am

raylo32 wrote:
Aug 21 2019 10:08am
I am going to order one of the OSF plug and play controller and display setups from Electrify Bike, probably with 850C display, but have one question: will my original LCD5 cutoff brake levers and throttle plug into this new setup? Or do I need to order those parts (or connectors to splice) that are specific to this? The web site isn't clear on that detail.

I have put off doing the upgrade because of needing to splice into the existing controller. This way I can keep that intact (except for maybe having to cut the plug off to remove it from the motor) in case I want to revert at some point.
Don't forget to buy also the tools for update the firmware a as you will need them in next weeks at least.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

raylo32   100 W

100 W
Posts: 112
Joined: Jan 04 2019 3:09pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Aug 21 2019 10:45am

I already have the ST Link programmer and cable that I used to update the OEM firmware once. So I Just need to know about the brake and throttle connections before ordering. Haven't heard back from Electrify yet but I figured you would know.

"Don't forget to buy also the tools for update the firmware a as you will need them in next weeks at least."

casainho   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3929
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 21 2019 10:53am

raylo32 wrote:
Aug 21 2019 10:45am
I already have the ST Link programmer and cable that I used to update the OEM firmware once. So I Just need to know about the brake and throttle connections before ordering. Haven't heard back from Electrify yet but I figured you would know.

"Don't forget to buy also the tools for update the firmware a as you will need them in next weeks at least."
What I know is on the wiki.

You also need a specific tool for 850C, to be able to use original bootloader.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

RicMcK   1 W

1 W
Posts: 63
Joined: Jun 19 2019 9:12am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » Aug 21 2019 2:12pm

P850C display and controller button?

How many wires are in the cable going from the display to the controller button on the P850C? I am asking because I had to lengthen the LDC3 control button wires to put in a good location on my dropped bars (road bike style).

Thanks
Rick Seattle WA

Aquakitty   100 W

100 W
Posts: 150
Joined: Jun 10 2017 3:07pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Aquakitty » Aug 21 2019 2:39pm

Flaar wrote:
Aug 20 2019 2:30pm
Hi,

broken motor case here, despite steel plate being correcly attached and nut tight when it happened. I'm waiting for a spare case from Tongsheng.
motor mount.jpg

In the mean time I'm trying to find out how to take the motor appart. Is there a video or exploded view, or instructions explaining that in detail ?
Will there be any press fit parts on my way or is it a matter of only c-clips ?

I have also found this spring falling from the broken parts, any idea where it could come from ?

Thanks for your help
Cripes. I think the problem is that you have that bolt hitting your downtube on one side but space on the other side which meant the case acted like a lever. In the future ether make sure that bolt nub isn't touching the tube at all, or put some heavy foam rubber in there as a cushion. The TSDZ2 is designed to not touch the down tube, but the other option is make sure it is completely touching by swinging it up and not using a support at all.

I put some rubber foam material and wrapped it with an old bicycle tube and zip ties then forced it up to the downtube. It acts like a shock for the motor case if it moves. The force on this motor is very high. I bent a metal rod in half from one of my first half-assed installs.
Rans Enduro Sport w/Sturmey-Archer XFRD8, TSDZ2 open source mod 48v
GT Verb Comp f/s TSDZ2 open source 48v
Diadora Ampio bargain f/s TSDZ2 48v
2020 Diamant 247 belt drive 1000w 9C 48v
Hardtail made from random bits I had laying around, ginormous old Marzocchi fork, BBS02

jpl83   10 µW

10 µW
Posts: 5
Joined: Aug 22 2019 3:48am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jpl83 » Aug 22 2019 4:36am

With the open source software, will it be possibe to connect no speed sensor ?
On my trike, it"s not so obvious to install a speed sensor. I don't need it because I have a GPS and for speed limits, I prefer to manage them by myself
With my standard software, I count cranks révolutions instead of wheels' one ...


With the open source software, will it be possible to power on the engine with the feet on the pedals ?
At this time, I do what I red on this forum : I put my feet off not to disturb the torque sensor calibration (useful so often ?)

raylo32   100 W

100 W
Posts: 112
Joined: Jan 04 2019 3:09pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Aug 22 2019 5:10am

I got an answer from Electrify, the original levers and throttle have different connectors. I am kind of surprised that they don't supply pigtails with that convert the Tongsheng connectors to the types needed by the 850C in the "plug and play" kit. So I ordered the matching brake levers and throttle. Not that $$ but extra work to pull the grips and brake cables that would be unnecessary if these adapters were available. Oh well. Maybe something they should consider for the future.

casainho wrote:
Aug 21 2019 10:53am
raylo32 wrote:
Aug 21 2019 10:45am
I already have the ST Link programmer and cable that I used to update the OEM firmware once. So I Just need to know about the brake and throttle connections before ordering. Haven't heard back from Electrify yet but I figured you would know.

"Don't forget to buy also the tools for update the firmware a as you will need them in next weeks at least."
What I know is on the wiki.

You also need a specific tool for 850C, to be able to use original bootloader.

Jpylva   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 1
Joined: Aug 22 2019 8:09am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Jpylva » Aug 22 2019 8:17am

What were your symptoms? I also plugged the connectors wrong and display won't show speed or battery levels and assisting is not working.
MPM wrote:
Feb 28 2017 1:06am
My TSDZ2 works again!

I first broke the motor shaft, and got a replacement motor. After I reassembled the unit I plugged the connectors in wrong and blew up the controller. So I got a replacement controller and put that in tonight. And it worked!

After I posted my controller failure some people at the forum here recommended I go for the 48V controller. I checked with Future Bike and they did offer it. They also mentioned that they would sell it with a copper gear to replace the nylon one, to cope with the power increase. In the end I decided to stick with the standard controller, partly because of cost (the 48V controller was significantly more, and I would also have to buy a 48V battery to benefit from it) but also because I had already broken that motor shaft in the first 15km after installing the unit with 36V, so I was reluctant to increase power. Ok, if I understand motor theory correctly the 48V only increases the peak rpm, not the peak torque and the shaft must have yielded because of torque but still.

I hope it makes it past 15km this time ;-)

And that 48V option might be interesting for others among you...

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7950
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by markz » Aug 22 2019 11:32pm

http://www.abundantadventures.com/mtfaq ... .mods.html

http://www.abundantadventures.com/quads.html

Looks like an interesting setup.
MOUNTAIN TAMERTM TRIPLE $29.95 more info

Replaces standard small chainring

Allows from 17 thru 34 teeth in the triple position

Can be used as a quad if triple chainring is 26T or larger

Works with indexed front shifters including Rapid-Fire
when used as a triple

Works with oversize 88mm bottom bracket shells

Quick and easy to install

Very easy to change sizes

Splined chainrings
Works with 5 arm cranksets having a 74 mm bolt circle diameter

(includes wave spring and retainer)


MOUNTAIN TAMER QUADTM PLUS sold out
Replaces standard small chainring with 17 thru 34 teeth more info

Adds a 4th chainring with 16 thru 34 teeth

Works with oversize bottom bracket shells

Very easy to change sizes

Splined chainrings
Allows wide range of gearing with optimal gear spacing

Works with 5 arm cranksets having a 74 mm bolt circle diameter

(includes wave spring,spacer and retainer)


MOUNTAIN TAMER QUADTM sold out

Adds a 16 thru 21 tooth chainring in the 4th position
Used with standard triple chainring
Very light weight - 59 grams with 16 T
Allows wide range of gearing
with optimal gear spacing
Threaded chainrings

Removal procedure for Mountain Tamer Quad chainring



All Mountain TamerTM adapters work with cranks having
standard 74mm bolt circle (43.4mm hole spacing) 5 bolt pattern only.
They are not compatible with 4 arm cranks or cranks with 68mm BCD.
Check with Andel Enterprise Co. Ltd. http://www.andel.com.tw/ for 74mm BCD cranks.
or search on eBay. Use 'crank 74 110' or 'crank 74 130' as the search string.





magna99 Last active: Wed May 01, 2019 8:37 pm
Quoted post below is from years ago!
Bump for an interesting setup!
magna99 wrote:
Nov 11 2017 5:17pm
Hey Daytriker....I'm running a dual front chainring setup on my TSDZ2 powered trike, and it works very nicely. I used regular 34T & 46T 9-speed rings with a chainring guard (bash guard) on the standard TS 110 BCD spider. Used 15mm long chainring bolts and chainguard spacers to mount all 3 to the spider. A standard Shimano SLX FD-M671 handles the shifting perfectly. I also use a dual chainring setup on another trike with a BBS02, again no problem except that for that installation I had to use a direct mount FD with a 100mm BB adapter to move the FD far enuff outward to shift correctly.

Chain line just isn't important on a trike. I've run all kinds of wild front setups, even a Mountain Tamer quad, over the years and have never had an issue with chain line.

Hope this helps you....if you want pictures, I can take some and email 'em to ya....
Last edited by markz on Aug 22 2019 11:35pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply