New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 23 2019 5:37am

manoz wrote:
Oct 22 2019 6:10pm
So today while out for a ride, about to set off at a traffic light I heard a snap and my leg slipped. The driveside crank had sheared clean off. Only done about 1200 miles on the motor. This happened to anyone else? What are the chances of claiming a warranty replacement? I bought it off the ebird store on aliexpress.

Image
I don´t remember to see such thing on TSDZ2. I had the same issues but with bottom bracket torque sensor I used in past. For TSDZ2, I think you need to buy a torque sensor because it includes the axle that you will need to exchange.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

manoz   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz » Oct 23 2019 6:03am

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Oct 23 2019 1:33am
re:
manoz wrote:
Oct 22 2019 6:10pm
So today while out for a ride, about to set off at a traffic light I heard a snap and my leg slipped. The driveside crank had sheared clean off. Only done about 1200 miles on the motor. This happened to anyone else? What are the chances of claiming a warranty replacement? I bought it off the ebird store on aliexpress.
whoa. I snapped a BB just once, was an early Phil Wood bottom bracket I'd just installed on my old Motobecane Grand Record roadie... I was a masher in my younger days, liked to stomp on tall gears. Was running a 54-42 front (campy cranks) and a 'straight block' rear (13-14-15-16-17) when I lived one summer in the flatlands. I forget (hey, it was 40 years ago), but I bet I was trying to launch at a light in 54:16 or something. anyways, I stood on it and it snapped clean off on the non-drive side. I managed to limp home riding with my right leg only, hah hah (straps and toeclips, this was the mid 70s)

you know what gear you were in ? With a mid drive, its pretty important to downshift before stopping, just like with a pure-pedal bike.
yeah unfortunately I have a habit of not changing down gears when I slow down. Normally I just put the motor in turbo mode briefly when I set off but this time I didn't. Had it on 42-11 gear. Plus I was on a slight uphill. I've broken several chains and a freehub buy mashing high gears. Still can't seem to break the habit lol. Anyways I messaged the ebird store on aliexpress and they said they will send me a free replacement axle. Just have to pay for postage which is $19

JaiCee   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by JaiCee » Oct 23 2019 8:50am

What are users of the OSF software doing about their display cables with the alternative displays not using the same connectors as the original? Are you cutting the connector off the original display and soldering that to the new display or is there an option to put a connector compatible with the display on the TSDZ2?

weatherman   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by weatherman » Oct 23 2019 11:40am

Hi everyone,

Regarding the issue I reported previously:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10FQ9Pc ... p=drivesdk

There were two possibilities given in this forum:
1. blue gear failure;
2. over-voltage;

After opening the engine, I was able to check the general condition, inside. Blue gear and all other gears seem ok!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VCyZa- ... p=drivesdk
Although I have not installed brake sensors, after 260km, things look pretty good, right?

So I will test #2.
I was not able to get a power supply with desired voltage (and current supply) so I will discharge the battery using walk assist and LCD backlight on and check if erratic behaviour disappears. If you have any other better suggestion please go ahead!

How does OSF, overcomes this issue? In the wiki I read that it is possible to define the battery low-cut-off voltage.
But how about the upper limit?

Thanks and regards

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 23 2019 11:54am

weatherman wrote:
Oct 23 2019 11:40am
!
How does OSF, overcomes this issue? In the wiki I read that it is possible to define the battery low-cut-off voltage.
But how about the upper limit?

Thanks and regards
Our OpenSource firmware has only relevant features and, their configurations, for final user. All configurations are documented on the wiki and all are available through the display.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jimmyfergus » Oct 23 2019 2:44pm

JaiCee wrote:
Oct 23 2019 8:50am
What are users of the OSF software doing about their display cables with the alternative displays not using the same connectors as the original? Are you cutting the connector off the original display and soldering that to the new display or is there an option to put a connector compatible with the display on the TSDZ2?
Yep - have to solder the cables together - the wiki has details of the colors to connect.

weatherman   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by weatherman » Oct 23 2019 7:05pm

windburner wrote:
Oct 22 2019 1:35pm
weatherman wrote:
Oct 22 2019 6:06am
... I have a problem. ... I've installed TSDZ2, made 260 km, ... Today the engine did not engage. ...
The behavior on the video looks very similar to the way these units respond when they perceives an over-voltage situation, with the factory firmware. Did you happen to charge it just prior to this use? I see from the video that the battery indicator shows full.

While mine does not display this behavior when I run the Flexible Open Source Firmware, it has displayed this behavior since new with the factory firmware. Some have shipped there units back, and they are sent back working fine.

...
Hi windburner, mctubster,

You were correct. After 20 min of walk mode and LCD backlight on, the engine returned to its normal condition.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLS-G9 ... p=drivesdk

So, after you installed the Flexible Open Source Firmware, this over-voltage situation just disappeared?
I dived into the Wiki and tried to find info regarding this issue, but couldn't find any.

Well, I'll wait for the 850C to arrive and then flash the all thing.

Thanks!

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Oct 23 2019 7:08pm

weatherman wrote:
Oct 23 2019 7:05pm
windburner wrote:
Oct 22 2019 1:35pm
weatherman wrote:
Oct 22 2019 6:06am
... I have a problem. ... I've installed TSDZ2, made 260 km, ... Today the engine did not engage. ...
The behavior on the video looks very similar to the way these units respond when they perceives an over-voltage situation, with the factory firmware. Did you happen to charge it just prior to this use? I see from the video that the battery indicator shows full.

While mine does not display this behavior when I run the Flexible Open Source Firmware, it has displayed this behavior since new with the factory firmware. Some have shipped there units back, and they are sent back working fine.

...
Hi windburner, mctubster,

You were correct. After 20 min of walk mode and LCD backlight on, the engine returned to its normal condition.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLS-G9 ... p=drivesdk

So, after you installed the Flexible Open Source Firmware, this over-voltage situation just disappeared?
I dived into the Wiki and tried to find info regarding this issue, but couldn't find any.

Well, I'll wait for the 850C to arrive and then flash the all thing.

Thanks!
Yes you can configure the OS firmware for different cell counts in the battery pack. It will resolve this issue

windburner   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by windburner » Oct 23 2019 8:43pm

weatherman wrote:
Oct 23 2019 7:05pm
Hi windburner, mctubster,

You were correct. After 20 min of walk mode and LCD backlight on, the engine returned to its normal condition.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLS-G9 ... p=drivesdk

So, after you installed the Flexible Open Source Firmware, this over-voltage situation just disappeared?
Yes, to my great joy the issue went away when I tried the FOSF v0.19. As best as I can figure it, because the FOSF is 'configurable' voltage-wise, it perhaps overcomes a fixed voltage limitation of the factory firmware. Also, Yes, burning the battery down with the stuttering motor alone does take a bit of time. I was happy to remember I had the headlamp, which made it a lot quicker.

The FOSF has lots to configure, but v0.19 has a bothersome lag on the pedal assist as compared to the factory. It is my understanding that v0.20 has more or less resolved this, but, as a user of the SW102 display, I am presently limited to v0.19, until its v0.20 compatible firmware update is made available.

FYI: I could not access the link provided above due to: Permissions
TerraTrike Rover Tandem - TSDZ2 48V 750W - 13AH Batteries - VLCD6-->SW102/v0.6.8 OSF-->VLCD6

weatherman   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by weatherman » Oct 24 2019 2:31am

windburner wrote:
Oct 23 2019 8:43pm
weatherman wrote:
Oct 23 2019 7:05pm
Hi windburner, mctubster,

You were correct. After 20 min of walk mode and LCD backlight on, the engine returned to its normal condition.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iLS-G9 ... p=drivesdk

So, after you installed the Flexible Open Source Firmware, this over-voltage situation just disappeared?
Yes, to my great joy the issue went away when I tried the FOSF v0.19. As best as I can figure it, because the FOSF is 'configurable' voltage-wise, it perhaps overcomes a fixed voltage limitation of the factory firmware. Also, Yes, burning the battery down with the stuttering motor alone does take a bit of time. I was happy to remember I had the headlamp, which made it a lot quicker.

The FOSF has lots to configure, but v0.19 has a bothersome lag on the pedal assist as compared to the factory. It is my understanding that v0.20 has more or less resolved this, but, as a user of the SW102 display, I am presently limited to v0.19, until its v0.20 compatible firmware update is made available.

FYI: I could not access the link provided above due to: Permissions
Yes you can configure the OS firmware for different cell counts in the battery pack. It will resolve this issue
Thank you both. I think I got it.

I've granted access to video.

Best regards

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mittkonto » Oct 24 2019 11:03am

JaiCee wrote:
Oct 23 2019 8:50am
What are users of the OSF software doing about their display cables with the alternative displays not using the same connectors as the original? Are you cutting the connector off the original display and soldering that to the new display or is there an option to put a connector compatible with the display on the TSDZ2?
Yerp, or like tomtom50 describes here, this is the cable you need: HIGO-Z812-B.
By the wholesome Code Gods of Muchgivings!!? A tidy TSDZ2 spliced cable and a nice chunk of HIGO-Z812-B with a tad of temperature mods sprinkled on top, you say?

JaiCee   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by JaiCee » Oct 24 2019 11:10am

mittkonto wrote:
Oct 24 2019 11:03am
JaiCee wrote:
Oct 23 2019 8:50am
What are users of the OSF software doing about their display cables with the alternative displays not using the same connectors as the original? Are you cutting the connector off the original display and soldering that to the new display or is there an option to put a connector compatible with the display on the TSDZ2?
Yerp, or like tomtom50 describes here, this is the cable you need: HIGO-Z812-B.
That's interesting. I also noticed that PSWPower sell extensions for the Bafang connector. I might splice the motor cable with the female end of that thus keeping the original display intact.

mittkonto   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mittkonto » Oct 24 2019 11:21am

JaiCee wrote:
Oct 24 2019 11:10am
mittkonto wrote:
Oct 24 2019 11:03am
JaiCee wrote:
Oct 23 2019 8:50am
What are users of the OSF software doing about their display cables with the alternative displays not using the same connectors as the original? Are you cutting the connector off the original display and soldering that to the new display or is there an option to put a connector compatible with the display on the TSDZ2?
Yerp, or like tomtom50 describes here, this is the cable you need: HIGO-Z812-B.
That's interesting. I also noticed that PSWPower sell extensions for the Bafang connector. I might splice the motor cable with the female end of that thus keeping the original display intact.
Yeah, I thought it would be nice to have the original wiring as-is-intact for diagnostic purposes.

Do however note that bafang has a different pinout, if you are going to have one of those. Non the less it's a good foundation, so one either make an adapter cable for a bafang displays or adapt each display later on.
By the wholesome Code Gods of Muchgivings!!? A tidy TSDZ2 spliced cable and a nice chunk of HIGO-Z812-B with a tad of temperature mods sprinkled on top, you say?

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 25 2019 1:17pm

We have new 850C display firmware version: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... 5.0-beta.2

Changelog beta.2:
- corrected issue where throttle would not work even if was activated
- corrected automatic timer off

Changelog beta.1
- automatic detection of the two different known LCDs based on ILI9481 and ST7796 controllers (no more need to configure for each one the axis flip)
- new firmware, with common base shared with SW102
- now user can easily choose the variable to shown on each of the four numeric fields (as also choose the variable shown on the graph)
- some limits are now shown on the graph like motor temperature, with yellow color for a value over min limit and red color over max limit
- warnings on lower text field, when some variables goes over max value
- Configurations menu now have sub menus

These release would not be possible without the recent work of the developers: geeksville, lowPerformer and casainho.

NOTE: this version was developed for the TSDZ2 motor controller firmware v0.19.0 (current stable version).

Image

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by casainho on Oct 26 2019 8:53am, edited 2 times in total.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Oct 26 2019 12:40pm

Has anyone used the latest Eco-bike.com files to update the firmware ( changing our 36 volt units to run on 48 volts ), we used to simply change the 2nd and third pair of bits on line 4000 but they seem to recommend to use their full motor profiles which seems to not use that method as the bits on line 4000 are not relevant to 48 volts or am I reading them wrongly ?

If they are correct then how do we change the amperage max levels or does the sub menu amp levels now work.

Thanks.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Oct 26 2019 5:25pm

mctubster wrote:
Sep 25 2018 7:48am
Hi all,

OK have done 70KM now. No change in noise profile. Still far too noisy for me. Have read a few tips about greasing the secondary gears (is this the big flywheel being driven by the small cog?) to reduce noise ... and to use Mobilith SHC 100.

I can't seem to find anywhere to purchase Mobilith SHC 100 in Australia, at least for the average consumer ... any other recommendations for grease?

Could someone who is out there who feels they have an almost silent TSDZ2 please record a quick video and post to youtube. I'm trying to work out if mine is a bad build or they are generally the same and "silent" is subjective.

Thanks a lot
Steve
Seems like mine has a change in noise profile after every 300km which manifests as a growling more similar to the earlier version with spur gear. Had to regrease again with the same Lucas Red'n Tacky. I wonder if some semi-fluid grease could work better without seeping trough the bearing on to the primary reduction gear if gravity could keep it around the pinion gear.
Last edited by sysrq on Oct 26 2019 8:26pm, edited 1 time in total.

LeftCoastNurd   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Oct 26 2019 5:36pm

casainho wrote:
Oct 23 2019 5:01am
2. cut off the connectors, and solder+shrinkwrap the wires so they are just the right length. Connectors can fail more after some time, based on my experience with TSDZ2 on few family ebikes, so, I avoid connectors. And I prefer to have cables with right length so installation is more clean.
are there pinout diagrams for the various component connectors ?

sysrq   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Oct 26 2019 8:25pm

sysrq wrote:
Oct 26 2019 5:25pm
mctubster wrote:
Sep 25 2018 7:48am
Hi all,

OK have done 70KM now. No change in noise profile. Still far too noisy for me. Have read a few tips about greasing the secondary gears (is this the big flywheel being driven by the small cog?) to reduce noise ... and to use Mobilith SHC 100.

I can't seem to find anywhere to purchase Mobilith SHC 100 in Australia, at least for the average consumer ... any other recommendations for grease?

Could someone who is out there who feels they have an almost silent TSDZ2 please record a quick video and post to youtube. I'm trying to work out if mine is a bad build or they are generally the same and "silent" is subjective.

Thanks a lot
Steve
Seems like mine has a change in noise profile after every 300km which manifests as a growling more similar to the earlier version with spur gear. Had to regrease again with the same Lucas Red'n Tacky. I wonder if some semi-fluid grease could work better without seeping trough the bearing on to the primary reduction gear if gravity could keep it around the pinion gear.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 26 2019 9:03pm

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Oct 26 2019 5:36pm
casainho wrote:
Oct 23 2019 5:01am
2. cut off the connectors, and solder+shrinkwrap the wires so they are just the right length. Connectors can fail more after some time, based on my experience with TSDZ2 on few family ebikes, so, I avoid connectors. And I prefer to have cables with right length so installation is more clean.
are there pinout diagrams for the various component connectors ?
On the wiki.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Oct 27 2019 10:44am

Waynemarlow wrote:
Oct 26 2019 12:40pm
Has anyone used the latest Eco-bike.com files to update the firmware ( changing our 36 volt units to run on 48 volts ), we used to simply change the 2nd and third pair of bits on line 4000 but they seem to recommend to use their full motor profiles which seems to not use that method as the bits on line 4000 are not relevant to 48 volts or am I reading them wrongly ?

If they are correct then how do we change the amperage max levels or does the sub menu amp levels now work.

Thanks.
Just if anybody goes this route ( 48volt really suits this 36volt motor as standard and almost totally cures the cadence problem for more experienced riders ) I downloaded and reprogrammed my 36volt motor with the files from Eco-bikes and I have to say that they must be set up as the default 250W Euro legal amperages.

Its easily changed as in the Data Memory tab of the programmer if you change the second and third series of numbers on the line 4000 you can enter 77 or 78 ( 48 volts ) and what ever amperage you like in the third series. In my case I have used 12 ( 12 amps ) to give a bit of a 550W boost on max but not enough to really stress the motor. The other thing to consider is this overall amperage seems to dictate the levels of each step on the controls as it would feel like that each step is a percentage of the overall. Riding with non ebikers if step 1 is not enough but step 2 is too much assistance then lower the top value and you will be able to use the 2nd step.

But I have a question, the first number in the line of numbers is set at 59 in the Eco-bikes file and yet my old 48 volt motor has it set at 50, does anybody know what that first number does ?

So in brief, download the 48volt hex file from Eco-bikes.com and look at the DataMemory tab and you will see 59 77 00 plus all the other numbers at 00. I changed mine to 59 78 12 which gives me; not sure:48volt:12amps. Seems to work well but I wish I knew what the first line of numbers corresponds to.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Oct 27 2019 4:54pm

mctubster wrote:
Oct 09 2019 12:56am
KWTri wrote:
Oct 08 2019 10:01pm
08 2019 10:10pm

1) As regards the TSDZ2 motor itself are there more recent revisions, and if so, what should I look for to get the most recent version?
Motor revision 1 (2017-2018, 2019?) Straight cut main gear / spur gear, Silver spider, Black spider? Main gear plastic cover has 3 screws, Original weather seals
Motor revision 2 (2018? 2019-) Helical cut main gear / spur gear (should be quieter), Black spider, Main gear plastic cover has 4 screws, Better weather seals
KWTri wrote:
Oct 08 2019 10:01pm

My other questions have mostly to do with which display to order to install the firmware on. As stated earlier I need this to be as stable and user friendly as possible for a non technical family member.

2) What is the current best device for installing the firmware? (I am on a bit of a budget, so would like to avoid the 850c as it is more expensive both for the device and for the bootloader box, which together add well over $100 to the build. However if that is the best option, so be it.)
TBH right now it remains the KT LCD3 with STLINK. You can run the latest firmware which is very feature rich and stable (0.20). I don't believe you would need to upgrade again. If you want eventual Strava integration the SW102, but this could be some time.
KWTri wrote:
Oct 08 2019 10:01pm
4) Will the LCD3 continue to be developed, and what are it's limitations?
Memory. Currently no s/w limitations, multipoint torque sensor calibration in the future could be missing and new features not yet thought of. The display has great visibility, and seems pretty weather proof.
KWTri wrote:
Oct 08 2019 10:01pm
5) My other thought was the SW102, as it is smaller and cheaper than the 850c and uses the same STv2 programming cable. Is the Firmware for this device at a stable point?
No not currently. Wireless flashing still in progress, firmware itself a work in progress.
KWTri wrote:
Oct 08 2019 10:01pm
And a few questions about the motor install itself.

6) I'm installing on a road bike, a specialized carbon frame. Are there any particular problems with installing this more onto a road racing style frame?
Yes potentially. Carbon frames will have a lot of material around the bottom bracket. Generally too much to fit the TSDZ2
KWTri wrote:
Oct 08 2019 10:01pm
8) Lastly, considering we do some touring in Colorado, how well does the motor handle sustained climbing for say an hour or more? What settings would be best for this scenario?
You would want to limit the power to 200-300 watts unless you do a cooling mod. TBH that is enough it is more than double what a fit person can output themselves
Mine has a black spider, helical secondary gear and only three plastic cover screws.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » Oct 27 2019 5:09pm

sysrq wrote:
Oct 27 2019 4:54pm
mctubster wrote:
Oct 09 2019 12:56am
KWTri wrote:
Oct 08 2019 10:01pm
08 2019 10:10pm

1) As regards the TSDZ2 motor itself are there more recent revisions, and if so, what should I look for to get the most recent version?
Motor revision 1 (2017-2018, 2019?) Straight cut main gear / spur gear, Silver spider, Black spider? Main gear plastic cover has 3 screws, Original weather seals
Motor revision 2 (2018? 2019-) Helical cut main gear / spur gear (should be quieter), Black spider, Main gear plastic cover has 4 screws, Better weather seals
KWTri wrote:
Oct 08 2019 10:01pm

My other questions have mostly to do with which display to order to install the firmware on. As stated earlier I need this to be as stable and user friendly as possible for a non technical family member.

2) What is the current best device for installing the firmware? (I am on a bit of a budget, so would like to avoid the 850c as it is more expensive both for the device and for the bootloader box, which together add well over $100 to the build. However if that is the best option, so be it.)
TBH right now it remains the KT LCD3 with STLINK. You can run the latest firmware which is very feature rich and stable (0.20). I don't believe you would need to upgrade again. If you want eventual Strava integration the SW102, but this could be some time.
KWTri wrote:
Oct 08 2019 10:01pm
4) Will the LCD3 continue to be developed, and what are it's limitations?
Memory. Currently no s/w limitations, multipoint torque sensor calibration in the future could be missing and new features not yet thought of. The display has great visibility, and seems pretty weather proof.
KWTri wrote:
Oct 08 2019 10:01pm
5) My other thought was the SW102, as it is smaller and cheaper than the 850c and uses the same STv2 programming cable. Is the Firmware for this device at a stable point?
No not currently. Wireless flashing still in progress, firmware itself a work in progress.
KWTri wrote:
Oct 08 2019 10:01pm
And a few questions about the motor install itself.

6) I'm installing on a road bike, a specialized carbon frame. Are there any particular problems with installing this more onto a road racing style frame?
Yes potentially. Carbon frames will have a lot of material around the bottom bracket. Generally too much to fit the TSDZ2
KWTri wrote:
Oct 08 2019 10:01pm
8) Lastly, considering we do some touring in Colorado, how well does the motor handle sustained climbing for say an hour or more? What settings would be best for this scenario?
You would want to limit the power to 200-300 watts unless you do a cooling mod. TBH that is enough it is more than double what a fit person can output themselves
Mine has a black spider, helical secondary gear and only three plastic cover screws.
For more BB installation clearance remove the motor cover as there are 2 fasteners that get in the way. Once you have it slid in reinstall the cover. I highly recommend doing a cooling mod. The one I did works great. Search this thread for my posts and there is a pdf attached. The mod is easy to do.
RicMcK Seattle.
Rick Seattle WA

Aquakitty   100 W

100 W
Posts: 152
Joined: Jun 10 2017 3:07pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Aquakitty » Oct 28 2019 12:48am

Did some extensive testing of the SW102 and it works flawlessly so far. The only weird issue is if you have the brake on when turning on the motor, you get "motor not found" error.

Another thing is I think having a throttle is the way to go mountain biking. It allows you to have easy access to "walk assist" and if something goes wrong with the torque sensing (or your speed sensor) you have a backup. Also, I find the "startup boost" is not ideal for real mountain biking, at least if you aren't using brakes, because the boost engages during shifts after a downhill, which is usually at the bottom of a hill, so you get a lot of rough shifting under motor power, if that makes sense. I think a throttle for boost when you are trying to start on a hill is superior to using the boost feature. Boost is good for road riding/red lights etc. though.

A push-button boost or walk feature would be nice (then you wouldn't need a throttle).

Another thing I noticed is this whole time I've been running underpowered. The stock firmware set my displays at 5 assist settings, but did not change the ratios accordingly. My ratios on every bike were set at 2.5 or something, whatever 9 has for 5, rather than changing the ratios to 4.8 and down like 9 has. No wonder I noticed the stock firmware was more powerful!
Rans Enduro Sport w/Sturmey-Archer XFRD8, TSDZ2 open source mod 48v
GT Verb Comp f/s TSDZ2 open source 48v
Diadora Ampio bargain f/s TSDZ2 48v
2020 Diamant 247 belt drive 1000w 9C 48v
Hardtail made from random bits I had laying around, ginormous old Marzocchi fork, BBS02

casainho   10 GW

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Posts: 4120
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 28 2019 2:31am

Aquakitty wrote:
Oct 28 2019 12:48am
Did some extensive testing of the SW102 and it works flawlessly so far. The only weird issue is if you have the brake on when turning on the motor, you get "motor not found" error.
Yes but that is an issue on the motor firmware as it does not start up until you release the brakes.
Aquakitty wrote:
Oct 28 2019 12:48am
Another thing is I think having a throttle is the way to go mountain biking. It allows you to have easy access to "walk assist" and if something goes wrong with the torque sensing (or your speed sensor) you have a backup.
Yes, I already thought on having a virtual throttle, something like the walk assist.

I already got my PAS broken while riding and I also received a new motor with broken torque sensor. This should be solved with V0.20.x firmware because it has PAS only and torque sensor only modes, so one of the sensors is not needed. Still I did not tested yet V0.20.x but I hope it works like that, at least was what I had in mind but I don´t know If Buba implemented with this in mind, because this was never mentioned about V0.20.x.
Aquakitty wrote:
Oct 28 2019 12:48am
I think a throttle for boost when you are trying to start on a hill is superior to using the boost feature. Boost is good for road riding/red lights etc. though.
About boost for MTB, don´t forget that torque sensor work mostly as a PAS sensor and so you don´t get a boost when you pedal hard at startup. My ebikes are running a V0.19.x firmware version with torque sensor calibration and I can get easily max power assistance from the motor at startup!! My calibrated torque sensor can measure values up to 1000 watts of human power while no calibrated can measure up like only 250 watts of human power, so, with a 1.0 assist level factor, I can get the power boost at startup if I rise my bum from the saddle at startup :-)

SW102 and 850C should very soon support V0.20.x, and we need to make a stable release also, seems there are no big issues with it although some issues like increased backward resistance and startup power boost feature was removed -- something to solve next.
Last edited by casainho on Oct 28 2019 2:42am, edited 4 times in total.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

dameri   100 W

100 W
Posts: 147
Joined: Sep 20 2018 10:57am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Oct 28 2019 9:21am

casainho wrote:
Oct 28 2019 2:31am
Aquakitty wrote:
Oct 28 2019 12:48am
Did some extensive testing of the SW102 and it works flawlessly so far. The only weird issue is if you have the brake on when turning on the motor, you get "motor not found" error.
Yes but that is an issue on the motor firmware as it does not start up until you release the brakes.
Aquakitty wrote:
Oct 28 2019 12:48am
Another thing is I think having a throttle is the way to go mountain biking. It allows you to have easy access to "walk assist" and if something goes wrong with the torque sensing (or your speed sensor) you have a backup.
Yes, I already thought on having a virtual throttle, something like the walk assist.

I already got my PAS broken while riding and I also received a new motor with broken torque sensor. This should be solved with V0.20.x firmware because it has PAS only and torque sensor only modes, so one of the sensors is not needed. Still I did not tested yet V0.20.x but I hope it works like that, at least was what I had in mind but I don´t know If Buba implemented with this in mind, because this was never mentioned about V0.20.x.
Aquakitty wrote:
Oct 28 2019 12:48am
I think a throttle for boost when you are trying to start on a hill is superior to using the boost feature. Boost is good for road riding/red lights etc. though.
About boost for MTB, don´t forget that torque sensor work mostly as a PAS sensor and so you don´t get a boost when you pedal hard at startup. My ebikes are running a V0.19.x firmware version with torque sensor calibration and I can get easily max power assistance from the motor at startup!! My calibrated torque sensor can measure values up to 1000 watts of human power while no calibrated can measure up like only 250 watts of human power, so, with a 1.0 assist level factor, I can get the power boost at startup if I rise my bum from the saddle at startup :-)

SW102 and 850C should very soon support V0.20.x, and we need to make a stable release also, seems there are no big issues with it although some issues like increased backward resistance and startup power boost feature was removed -- something to solve next.
This is nice to hear. Very big thanks for the developers.

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