New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
arka   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by arka » May 01 2020 2:26pm

I want to go for a long ride with my little son tomorrow, so unnecessary stops are not advisable :-)
So far I've been using the stable version 0.19.0 + Bafang 850C but I'm having problems with the engine overheating and I need to have a temperature preview showing the current exact value - that is from version 0.7.0 upwards.

When I turn on my bike and start it, when I stop pedalling the engine stops giving power. Sometimes it continues to work after a break in pedalling, but usually I have to restart the driver to start. Yesterday when I was riding I just kept pedalling and when I had to stop I restarted the bike... I did a torque sensor calibration process, but when I turn off the calibration it happens the same.

I add photos of my settings with 52V 17.5Ah Sanyo GA 840Wh 14S5P battery and 27.5 inch wheels, or which firmware version is stable?
Zrzut ekranu 2020-05-1 o 21.08.17.jpg
Zrzut ekranu 2020-05-1 o 21.08.17.jpg (389.34 KiB) Viewed 1073 times
- Felt redemption 3 HUB:
Sabvoton SVMC72100 (M)
Mxus v3 3K-Turbo 16x4T
67V 16s16p Sanio GA
EV Computer
- Giant Yukon FX 2 MID:
TSDZ2 750W
13s5p 48V 17,5Ah 840Wh Sanyo NCR18650GA

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 01 2020 2:42pm

arka wrote:
May 01 2020 2:26pm
I want to go for a long ride with my little son tomorrow, so unnecessary stops are not advisable :-)

I add photos of my settings with 52V 17.5Ah Sanyo GA 840Wh 14S5P battery and 27.5 inch wheels, or which firmware version is stable?
Well, the latest version 1.0.0-alpha.4 is the most stable judging the users feedback. See as example the feedback from Martin555:
Martin555 wrote:
Apr 27 2020 2:53pm
First of all, I want to say thank you to Casainho and all contributors!! Your firmware doubled the value of my TSDZ2!
After the fix I were now able to install 1.0.0 on my SW102 and I have to admit, it put my motor on a new level. I found no issues yet at all. I use the motor with a 24v battery, which I removed from an electric skateboard, hence until now the motor only supported up to a cadence of 50. But the update destroyed this large disadvantage. So if you need feedback or testing of particular features with this voltage, I'd be pleased to help.
The latest versions solved issues of sometimes motor incorrect initialization, seems the ones you are having - now is just perfect.

Enjoy your ride in family!! Many of us like me are most time at home because the usual activities like MTB events are now cancelled due to Covid-19. I found I really need to be with others, I quick get bored riding alone.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

arka   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by arka » May 01 2020 3:15pm

casainho wrote:
May 01 2020 2:42pm
arka wrote:
May 01 2020 2:26pm
I want to go for a long ride with my little son tomorrow, so unnecessary stops are not advisable :-)

I add photos of my settings with 52V 17.5Ah Sanyo GA 840Wh 14S5P battery and 27.5 inch wheels, or which firmware version is stable?
Well, the latest version 1.0.0-alpha.4 is the most stable judging the users feedback. See as example the feedback from Martin555:
Martin555 wrote:
Apr 27 2020 2:53pm
First of all, I want to say thank you to Casainho and all contributors!! Your firmware doubled the value of my TSDZ2!
After the fix I were now able to install 1.0.0 on my SW102 and I have to admit, it put my motor on a new level. I found no issues yet at all. I use the motor with a 24v battery, which I removed from an electric skateboard, hence until now the motor only supported up to a cadence of 50. But the update destroyed this large disadvantage. So if you need feedback or testing of particular features with this voltage, I'd be pleased to help.
The latest versions solved issues of sometimes motor incorrect initialization, seems the ones you are having - now is just perfect.

Enjoy your ride in family!! Many of us like me are most time at home because the usual activities like MTB events are now cancelled due to Covid-19. I found I really need to be with others, I quick get bored riding alone.
Dear casainho
I was just on a test drive and I think I know what's going on. The problem comes when I hold up and turn on the lights. Then it stops reacting. When I turn it off, it goes back to normal.
IMG_0493.jpeg
IMG_0493.jpeg (269.43 KiB) Viewed 1066 times
Connect the lights directly to the battery and there should be no problem. At the same time, I'm glad that I managed to help with software development and found an bug :-) Tomorrow is preparing a great day with your son, thanks for your work :-)
- Felt redemption 3 HUB:
Sabvoton SVMC72100 (M)
Mxus v3 3K-Turbo 16x4T
67V 16s16p Sanio GA
EV Computer
- Giant Yukon FX 2 MID:
TSDZ2 750W
13s5p 48V 17,5Ah 840Wh Sanyo NCR18650GA

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 01 2020 3:30pm

arka wrote:
May 01 2020 3:15pm
Connect the lights directly to the battery and there should be no problem. At the same time, I'm glad that I managed to help with software development and found an bug :-)
This alpha version have an option for configured the amount of current the lights use, to avoid that issue. Well, I guess you now prefer to focus with the travel with your son :-)
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

sbartle   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sbartle » May 01 2020 4:36pm

Hi Guys,

Have any of you got an 860C without the word "intelligent" written along the bottom of the display? If so, can you tell me where you got it from, please?

Thanks,
Shaun.

RicMcK   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » May 01 2020 5:47pm

sbartle wrote:
May 01 2020 4:36pm
Hi Guys,

Have any of you got an 860C without the word "intelligent" written along the bottom of the display? If so, can you tell me where you got it from, please?

Thanks,
Shaun.
I got one a few weeks ago (bought 6+ weeks ago shipping)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000524 ... 4c4d7ION8W
Rick Seattle WA

Keithchris   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Keithchris » May 02 2020 6:20am

bergerandfries wrote:
May 01 2020 2:00pm
Keithchris wrote:
May 01 2020 12:53pm
So it seems the battery voltage is creating the problem - I have measured the fully charged battery at 54v - I have the same battery from another bike ( same build ) measured at 47v - using the battery with lower voltage both bikes function OK - with the higher voltage battery one bike ( the original problem bike ) will not ‘start’ the other bike kind of hesitated but eventually did ‘start’ exchanging the batteries a few times bike to bike the problem could be switched on and off.
Is there any recommended action I can take now - apart from managing the charging level of the battery ?
The firmware level shown on the display is 4.1 .
Thank you
No problems. You can either:
A) Change over to the Open Source Code firmware for the motor (If you want to keep your standard display, I prefer the qmarco version of the code fork)
B) Change over to the higher voltage standard firmware (found at https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... rogramming under the "STOCK FIRMWARE ARCHIVE" at the bottom of the page)
C) Change over to the Open Source Code firmware and update your display to match.
D) Return the motor that has the wrong firmware

I think that covers the options?
Would changing the controller in the motor to 48v be an option? -
Thanks again-

ilu   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » May 02 2020 12:55pm

Keithchris wrote:
May 02 2020 6:20am
Would changing the controller in the motor to 48v be an option? -
Thanks again-
Yes, based on the voltage you measured it seems that your battery is nominally 48V, actually meaning 13s ie. 13 cells wired in series (assuming they are the most usual 18560 type cells). Those batteries are commonly charged to 13 x 4.2 = 54.6 volts. A "36V" (or 10s) battery is charged to a maximum of ~42 volts. The charger usually has a label that tells the target voltage. Anyway it seems that the standard firmware for 36V controller allows slightly higher voltage, as battery charged to 47V still works without problem, although the battery state of charge indicator probably isn't very accurate.

I'd say that switching to OSF (open source firmware) for the standard displays would be easier solution and brings additional advantages as well:
https://github.com/stancecoke/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike/wiki
Thread about that version: viewtopic.php?p=1551727#p1551697

But naturally it's up to you to choose which way you want to proceed, changing the controller is quite a simple task as well, but requires removing the motor from the bike.

Andrew707   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Andrew707 » May 02 2020 3:24pm

How do you guys find the motor waterproofness? I live in an area with a lot and sometimes very heavy rain and I would still like to continue cycling in such weather. Do you think the rubber seal on the motor cover is enough to not let any water in? Did anyone try to add silicone or something else to waterproof the motor even more? Do you shrink wrap connectors?

EDIT: Another question. TSDZ2 came with a split connector on a speed sensor and if I understand correctly I can connect 6V lights there. What bike lights can you recommend? Aliexpress is mostly carrying higher voltage lights and 6V ones usually don't have very good reviews because they're not that bright and I would prefer to have very bright lights.

skestans   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by skestans » May 02 2020 4:11pm

Andrew707 wrote:How do you guys find the motor waterproofness? I live in an area with a lot and sometimes very heavy rain and I would still like to continue cycling in such weather. Do you think the rubber seal on the motor cover is enough to not let any water in? Did anyone try to add silicone or something else to waterproof the motor even more? Do you shrink wrap connectors?

EDIT: Another question. TSDZ2 came with a split connector on a speed sensor and if I understand correctly I can connect 6V lights there. What bike lights can you recommend? Aliexpress is mostly carrying higher voltage lights and 6V ones usually don't have very good reviews because they're not that bright and I would prefer to have very bright lights.
The wiki has some info on improving waterproofing and also heat shedding

ilu   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » May 02 2020 5:50pm

Andrew707 wrote:
May 02 2020 3:24pm
EDIT: Another question. TSDZ2 came with a split connector on a speed sensor and if I understand correctly I can connect 6V lights there. What bike lights can you recommend? Aliexpress is mostly carrying higher voltage lights and 6V ones usually don't have very good reviews because they're not that bright and I would prefer to have very bright lights.
This kind of light works pretty well, but the 6V output is limited to something like 500mA (read on the forum, not tested) so you won't get more than ~3W output. If you want REALLY bright lights, you need to get the power straight from the battery and either use a switch or a relay powered by the 6V light output. Best to choose a lamp that supports anything between say 6-60 volts, so you can first hook it to the 6V line and see if that's enough, and if not then go the battery route.

cavi   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by cavi » May 04 2020 3:58pm

soo I am basically ready to buy a motor, and I see many vendors, and a couple of them offering motors with the OSF which is what I want. Are any of the vendors main people on this site that I should favor? Who is the most helpful? Feel free to leave a couple of names.
Thanks.

curcumin   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by curcumin » May 04 2020 5:50pm

cavi wrote:
May 04 2020 3:58pm
soo I am basically ready to buy a motor, and I see many vendors, and a couple of them offering motors with the OSF which is what I want. Are any of the vendors main people on this site that I should favor? Who is the most helpful? Feel free to leave a couple of names.
Thanks.
For whatever it's worth, I recently ordered a blue gear and new 36v motor on two separate occasions from eco-cycles: www.eco-ebike.com
and each order came within 2 days and the prices seem fair for a U.S seller.

Big_Daddy   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Big_Daddy » May 04 2020 7:41pm

Anyone have experience with both the 36V OSF/850C and 48V OSF/850C? If so, can you comment on differences that you observed. (assist power, speed, climbing, battery life, etc.). Thanks.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 04 2020 9:43pm

Big_Daddy wrote:
May 04 2020 7:41pm
Anyone have experience with both the 36V OSF/850C and 48V OSF/850C? If so, can you comment on differences that you observed. (assist power, speed, climbing, battery life, etc.). Thanks.
I have no experience with 36V but I read all messages here and I would say the only disadvantage of 36V is that probably 36V motor will heat faster. I can't say why, no one yet we're able to justify this.

With a 36V motor you can have a smaller battery but this is important only for the ones trying to optimize battery weight and size, there are users reporting to use a 24V battery with 36V motor because of that.

Some may say that 36V motor with a 48V battery has the advantage of getting high cadence values over 90 and up to 120ROM but that is not the case anymore with the latest version 1.0.0-alpha.4 of the firmware.

Also, read the TSDZ2 FAQ on the wiki to get some more information that may help you.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Big_Daddy   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Big_Daddy » May 04 2020 10:03pm

casainho wrote:
May 04 2020 9:43pm
Big_Daddy wrote:
May 04 2020 7:41pm
Anyone have experience with both the 36V OSF/850C and 48V OSF/850C? If so, can you comment on differences that you observed. (assist power, speed, climbing, battery life, etc.). Thanks.
I have no experience with 36V but I read all messages here and I would say the only disadvantage of 36V is that probably 36V motor will heat faster. I can't say why, no one yet we're able to justify this.

With a 36V motor you can have a smaller battery but this is important only for the ones trying to optimize battery weight and size, there are users reporting to use a 24V battery with 36V motor because of that.

Some may say that 36V motor with a 48V battery has the advantage of getting high cadence values over 90 and up to 120ROM but that is not the case anymore with the latest version 1.0.0-alpha.4 of the firmware.

Also, read the TSDZ2 FAQ on the wiki to get some more information that may help you.
Thanks casainho! This is very helpful and I will consult the wiki.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 05 2020 4:51am

Has anyone ever built a road bike that can share notes and some pictures so I can add to the wiki?

bikesnobyyc user shared very good notes and pictures for his build of an adventure touring bike - see here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... uring-bike

Image

Image
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

knutselmaaster   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » May 05 2020 5:31am

casainho wrote:I have no experience with 36V but I read all messages here and I would say the only disadvantage of 36V is that probably 36V motor will heat faster. I can't say why, no one yet we're able to justify this.
It seems that the different voltage versions of the motor use the same ampere.
Like 36v = 350w and 48v = 500w, approximately both do 10A.
I haven't seen a 48v 350w motor.
So the temperature values will be the same but the effective power of the 48v version is about 33% higher.
I might be wrong though.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 05 2020 5:37am

knutselmaaster wrote:
May 05 2020 5:31am
casainho wrote:I have no experience with 36V but I read all messages here and I would say the only disadvantage of 36V is that probably 36V motor will heat faster. I can't say why, no one yet we're able to justify this.
It seems that the different voltage versions of the motor use the same ampere.
Like 36v = 350w and 48v = 500w, approximately both do 10A.
I haven't seen a 48v 350w motor.
So the temperature values will be the same but the effective power of the 48v version is about 33% higher.
I might be wrong though.
I think, and others did mention before, that must be differences on the wingdings - maybe one has more winding resistance than the other or other magnetic differences on the stator that will make heat faster.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

knutselmaaster   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » May 05 2020 5:52am

Ah yes indeed I didn't think about that. Often different wire gauge is used for different voltage.
That would be visible though when holding the motors side by side.
I only have 36v versions so I cannot check it.

andrewgateway   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andrewgateway » May 05 2020 6:55am

knutselmaaster wrote:
casainho wrote:I have no experience with 36V but I read all messages here and I would say the only disadvantage of 36V is that probably 36V motor will heat faster. I can't say why, no one yet we're able to justify this.
It seems that the different voltage versions of the motor use the same ampere.
Like 36v = 350w and 48v = 500w, approximately both do 10A.
I haven't seen a 48v 350w motor.
So the temperature values will be the same but the effective power of the 48v version is about 33% higher.
I might be wrong though.

I have a 48v 250w


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

knutselmaaster   1 kW

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Location: near Paris, France

Re: New

Post by knutselmaaster » May 05 2020 7:07am

andrewgateway wrote:
May 05 2020 6:55am
knutselmaaster wrote:
casainho wrote:I have no experience with 36V but I read all messages here and I would say the only disadvantage of 36V is that probably 36V motor will heat faster. I can't say why, no one yet we're able to justify this.
It seems that the different voltage versions of the motor use the same ampere.
Like 36v = 350w and 48v = 500w, approximately both do 10A.
I haven't seen a 48v 350w motor.
So the temperature values will be the same but the effective power of the 48v version is about 33% higher.
I might be wrong though.

I have a 48v 250w


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Hence, m'y theory has fallen.
Could you please tell me where did you find that?

Elinx   1 kW

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Re: New

Post by Elinx » May 05 2020 7:31am

andrewgateway wrote: .....
I have a 48v 250w....
I think this is a 48V " overdrive" version with modified stock FW, so you can use 48V battery on a original 36V 250W motor.

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 05 2020 8:14am

TSDZ2 rider max weight

I just added this important piece of information to TSDZ2 FAQ -- see the pictures bellow showing the torque sensor central tubular axle broken!!

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... max_weight

TSDZ2 rider max weight

TSDZ2 should work well for riders up to 100 kgs. For higher values like 110 kgs, it will also work but it is recommended to avoid doing big impulses (put full rider weight on the pedals) and with high gear, at startup, to avoid the risk of broking the torque sensor.

Casainho wrote: After using TSDZ2 for more than 2 years (since begin of 2018), on different bicycles and with different TSDZ2 motors, doing both MTB and city commuting, with my weight around 105 kgs, I never had a problem.
On 2020, my weight increased to 111 kgs and one day at city I did a big impulse at start pedaling, while I was standing on the pedals with a high gear, the central tubular shaft of the torque sensor broke doing a big cracking noise. Everything went back to normal after I exchanged for a new torque sensor and now I will avoid to do that big impulses on the pedals and with high gear.

Image

Image
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Waynemarlow   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » May 05 2020 8:47am

Working on the torque sensor I've never really found a way to stop the 3 small springs rattling about as you push the main axle into place, until the last time and then it sort of occurred to me there's a very easy way.

On the sensor unit ( not the axle component ) there are 3 small spring guides to locate the spring. I simple used a long nose pair of pliers and tightened the last loop of the springs making it smaller than the guides. Then you can simply push the springs on the guides and they just sit there in any position attached to the sensor, held by the tension of the now smaller loop.

Worked a treat.

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