New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Doohickey   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Doohickey » Jul 13 2020 9:02am

drpop wrote:
Jul 13 2020 7:15am
My heat sensor arrived this morning and i hope to install this evening. I have the 8 pin 'with throttle' and i understand that i can cut-and-splice into the throttle wire. Am I safe to do this with the 5V as well? What about the Ground? should i just t-splice into the cables like in the wiki? Am i safe to cut the ground to the lcd?

Thx.
I posted a picture of how I did it here earlier in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1507009#p1507009

Only the ground needs to go to the LCD, so this is the only one where you need to do a t splice (this is with the sw102, maybe the stock display does need the 5v as well (?)). The 5v and the throttle wires don't need to go to the display (with sw102..), so I just cut, and soldered the sensor to the controller end of the cut wire, leaving the wire ends going to the display disconnected (heatshrink over the ends). Everything is inside the casing.

drpop   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by drpop » Jul 13 2020 9:20am

amazingly helpful. cheers.

hannes500kw   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hannes500kw » Jul 13 2020 10:55am

Trying to fit a motor on a vitus nucleus and running into trouble with the chainstays. My plan is to grind on the motorhousing and using washers. Right now i have about 8-9mm on the left hand side. Can I grind 1-2mm off the frame as well?

ilu   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Jul 13 2020 3:43pm

hannes500kw wrote:
Jul 13 2020 10:55am
Trying to fit a motor on a vitus nucleus and running into trouble with the chainstays. My plan is to grind on the motorhousing and using washers. Right now i have about 8-9mm on the left hand side. Can I grind 1-2mm off the frame as well?
I think 8mm on the left side should be enough, as long as you can fit the support plate and the main nut. Just make sure you use enough washers on the drive side to fit the axle fully straight, if the housing presses on the chainstay and makes it even slightly slanted, you will definately run into problems. I filed a tiny groove in the chainstay of my steel Honzo frame, but I wouldn't do that with aluminium.

drpop   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by drpop » Jul 13 2020 5:04pm

I went ahead with the heat sensor mod.. everything seemed to go well... right until I was replacing the right-hand plate where-upon the final hex bolt sheered in the housing. :x

I went ahead and had a quick test... and I got an Eo-6 error message - which I am assuming is the over-temperature errror. Switched it all off while I work out how to remove the sheered bolt. Thx for the help so far folks.

famichiki   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 13 2020 8:29pm

casainho wrote:
Feb 13 2020 4:36pm
famichiki wrote:
Feb 13 2020 3:54pm
Has anyone here attached a temperature sensor using JB Weld? Did you simply glue the surfaces using that, or encase the whole sensor in it? Or for anyone else, have you found an adhesive that doesn't involve encasing the entire sensor?
Last time I used a plastic zip tie, like others shared before. I still use the heat transfer adhesive to connect the sensor to the motor surface and then input the zip tie around the motor that also keep the sensor in place. I need to put this information in the wiki.
How did the zip tie hold up? Would you or anyone else please be able to share a photo if you have one? I can only see the silicone blob method in the wiki still. Is there any particular brand of thermal adhesive recommended?

BMboomer   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by BMboomer » Jul 14 2020 4:46am

jeff.page.rides wrote:
May 20 2020 8:43am
BMboomer wrote:
May 20 2020 5:19am
Hi from Australia, haven't posted for a long time, but still into electric bikes, & my original cheap eBay direct drive hub bike has been improved over the years, & is still going strong.
Now for my latest project. I ordered a TSDZ2 kit, months ago just before the Covid 19 restrictions kicked in. & I still haven't got it. I thought things might get difficult, so I ordered it from Amazon AU, from a company called Greenergy-AU. It costed more than ordering from China, but I was thinking that I would be ordering from Australian stock.
Not so. It's coming from China anyway
Tracking tells me that it's still stuck at " Depart from overseas processing facility", & has been for a month now.
Anyway the delay has given me plenty of time to select a candidate bike for the TSDZ2 if & when it arrives. So I bought a great bike on Gumtree, that would be very suitable, & it was only $125. It's a Raceline Comp. Not very well known, but Raceline was the high end of Apollo, who are a very reputable bike brand in Australia. This bike is very well equipped. With decent Manitou forks, Hayes hydraulic disc brakes. Mavic rims on Shimano hubs. 9 speed cassette with Deore XTR derailleur. Deore shifters, all in a nice big light alloy hardtail frame with a standard 68mm BSA BB.
All set, but still waiting for the motor, & then I see on Gumtree an almost new condition, 2008 Giant Trance X0 frame, with 5" of Fox Float air suspension. More than twice the price of the Raceline, but it really is a thing of beauty. So I bought it thinking I might cannabalise all the good bits from the Raceline, put them on the Giant frame, & have a nice full suspension bike for the motor when it comes.
I know I would have more difficulties installing the motor in the FS frame, but at least it is a 68mm BSA BB.
What is the community opinion.
Is the extra difficulty of fitting worth the extra comfort of the FS frame, considering that I'm an older bloke, & probably won't be going more off road than gravel walking paths. Or should I stick to the Raceline, which is pretty much an ideal install.
Every full suspension bike is diffrent to install the TSDZ2 on. So try it on the full suspension bike first and if it's simple give it a try. If it is going to take a lot of work or will not work you can move it to the hardtail.
The motor finally arrived, & it wasn't going to go in the Giant Trance frame as the bottom floating suspension pivot was right in the way, so I fitted it into the Raceline hardtail which almost seemed like it was made for it.
I found the motor was a bit underwhelming at first, as I'm used to riding in the lowest level on my direct drive bike, but it wasn't too bad in the third level. It was super economical though giving me 140km on the first charge of the new 36v 17.4 ah Samsung 29e battery run down to 30v. That was including climbing over Buderim with it's 10% hills, twice.
After that economy & performance testing, & with my watt meter still in series, I thought I'd give the Open Source Firmware adapted to Vlcd5 that has been put together by some of the amazingly talented people that post here. I had already got the ST link V2, & it all went pretty easily.
I tried it at 36v using mostly the default settings in the Java Configurator, & was immediately blown away. Not only by the extra performance, lowest level almost felt like 3rd level did, & going up from there as the levels go up. But the whole thing felt much smoother & quieter.
Then I seriesed up 3 more parallel sets with my 10s to make a 13s, & tried it at 48v. That didn't seem to make much difference, to it's performance. Just doing it at a few less amps. The way that I will be using it, I won't be over stressing it anyway, so I am quite happy to stick with 36v. I'm quite commited to 36v. All my other e-bikes are 36v, & 10s is a nice round number.
I'm feeling like this is an awesome bike now. It's making my old legs feel 50yrs younger, & getting me up hills that have me walking if I'm on a road bike, or working a bit harder than I want to on most other e-bikes I've tried.
Now I've fully charged the battery to see if the extra performance comes at a cost to economy. So far it's looking good. I've done 45km, my Vlcd5 is telling me I've got 88.9% left, & I've still got 5 out of 6 bars on the gauge.
I'm thinking about my next project now (love retirement). Probably a stealthy road bike, with an AKM 128 CST. I want to use 36v but that motor seems to be only sold rated at 48v these days. I remember people using it at 36v & getting good torque. Anybody know if they're different windings these days?

Big_Daddy   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Big_Daddy » Jul 14 2020 12:26pm

drpop wrote:
Jul 13 2020 7:15am
ilu wrote:
Jul 13 2020 6:46am
check the aligment of the speed sensor and magnet. Note that the sensor is not at the round part of the plastic housing but in the more narrow sector showing a tiny arrow. The magnet should pass this within few millimeters.
I've had at from 2mm away all the way up to around 25mm and still no luck...i'll keep trying. knowing that the 'error codes' are actually usefull features is great though!

---

My heat sensor arrived this morning and i hope to install this evening. I have the 8 pin 'with throttle' and i understand that i can cut-and-splice into the throttle wire. Am I safe to do this with the 5V as well? What about the Ground? should i just t-splice into the cables like in the wiki? Am i safe to cut the ground to the lcd?

Thx.
Might sound a little Bassackwards but try turning the magnet around opposite to the direction you now have it. I have two TSDZ2 one with the shiny side facing the sensor and the other with the flat screw side facing the sensor. Neither will work if I turn them opposite! Don’t know if somehow polarity got reversed on the latter but I have over 1000 miles and it only works turned the other direction. A couple of times it accidentally got turned when cleaning and servicing and once it wasn’t very tight and rotated when I slammed on the brakes. Both times a few minutes of stress and checking the controller before remembering aha turn the little dinky around! So far has worked every time.

knutselmaaster   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Jul 14 2020 12:59pm

Most of these motors need the spoke magnet to be very far away from the sensor to work properly.

bikobike   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bikobike » Jul 14 2020 1:50pm

Hello,
I'm interested in the TSDZ2 open source project. I have 2 questions:
1: I would like to know if it is possible to use it with a joystick that allows me to manually control the power sent to the engine, and thus to be able to move forward without pedalling. Like this : https://youtu.be/qoUueZvMIdg?t=559

2: Is there or do you know of a brake energy recovery system? like this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_e ... ery_system

Thanks everyone

Balmorhea   1 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Balmorhea » Jul 14 2020 3:11pm

bikobike wrote:
Jul 14 2020 1:50pm
I would like to know if it is possible to use it with a joystick that allows me to manually control the power sent to the engine, and thus to be able to move forward without pedalling. Like this : https://youtu.be/qoUueZvMIdg?t=559
If you dont want pedal torque sensing, there are much more reliable systems out there. Bafang BBS02 is proven as a far more mechanically sound system with better support for both programming and spare parts. The only thing TSDZ2 has going for it is pedal torque sensing at a relatively low cost. I personally don't think that’s enough to offset its mechanical design flaws.
___________
Finish Reconstruction.

drpop   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by drpop » Jul 14 2020 5:34pm

Big_Daddy wrote:
Jul 14 2020 12:26pm
Might sound a little Bassackwards but try turning the magnet around opposite to the direction you now have it....
Bingo! That did it!

The sensor is soldered in and is also working, just waiting for a tool to remove a sheared bolt and I can silicone it all back up.

I've seen some chat about tie wrapping the sensor to the motor... so I'm going to do some digging for that. Hopefully, be back out on the bike by Thur's fingers crossed.

Thx again for the advice folks.

btslo   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by btslo » Jul 15 2020 3:26am

I have some play in the spider, is this normal?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/HEyyALhhQhxjd8c87

All the bolts are tight and there is no play in the main axle, only on the chainring and spider.

jeff.page.rides   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeff.page.rides » Jul 15 2020 11:23am

BMboomer wrote:
Jul 14 2020 4:46am
jeff.page.rides wrote:
May 20 2020 8:43am
BMboomer wrote:
May 20 2020 5:19am
Hi from Australia, haven't posted for a long time, but still into electric bikes, & my original cheap eBay direct drive hub bike has been improved over the years, & is still going strong.
Now for my latest project. I ordered a TSDZ2 kit, months ago just before the Covid 19 restrictions kicked in. & I still haven't got it. I thought things might get difficult, so I ordered it from Amazon AU, from a company called Greenergy-AU. It costed more than ordering from China, but I was thinking that I would be ordering from Australian stock.
Not so. It's coming from China anyway
Tracking tells me that it's still stuck at " Depart from overseas processing facility", & has been for a month now.
Anyway the delay has given me plenty of time to select a candidate bike for the TSDZ2 if & when it arrives. So I bought a great bike on Gumtree, that would be very suitable, & it was only $125. It's a Raceline Comp. Not very well known, but Raceline was the high end of Apollo, who are a very reputable bike brand in Australia. This bike is very well equipped. With decent Manitou forks, Hayes hydraulic disc brakes. Mavic rims on Shimano hubs. 9 speed cassette with Deore XTR derailleur. Deore shifters, all in a nice big light alloy hardtail frame with a standard 68mm BSA BB.
All set, but still waiting for the motor, & then I see on Gumtree an almost new condition, 2008 Giant Trance X0 frame, with 5" of Fox Float air suspension. More than twice the price of the Raceline, but it really is a thing of beauty. So I bought it thinking I might cannabalise all the good bits from the Raceline, put them on the Giant frame, & have a nice full suspension bike for the motor when it comes.
I know I would have more difficulties installing the motor in the FS frame, but at least it is a 68mm BSA BB.
What is the community opinion.
Is the extra difficulty of fitting worth the extra comfort of the FS frame, considering that I'm an older bloke, & probably won't be going more off road than gravel walking paths. Or should I stick to the Raceline, which is pretty much an ideal install.
Every full suspension bike is diffrent to install the TSDZ2 on. So try it on the full suspension bike first and if it's simple give it a try. If it is going to take a lot of work or will not work you can move it to the hardtail.
The motor finally arrived, & it wasn't going to go in the Giant Trance frame as the bottom floating suspension pivot was right in the way, so I fitted it into the Raceline hardtail which almost seemed like it was made for it.
I found the motor was a bit underwhelming at first, as I'm used to riding in the lowest level on my direct drive bike, but it wasn't too bad in the third level. It was super economical though giving me 140km on the first charge of the new 36v 17.4 ah Samsung 29e battery run down to 30v. That was including climbing over Buderim with it's 10% hills, twice.
After that economy & performance testing, & with my watt meter still in series, I thought I'd give the Open Source Firmware adapted to Vlcd5 that has been put together by some of the amazingly talented people that post here. I had already got the ST link V2, & it all went pretty easily.
I tried it at 36v using mostly the default settings in the Java Configurator, & was immediately blown away. Not only by the extra performance, lowest level almost felt like 3rd level did, & going up from there as the levels go up. But the whole thing felt much smoother & quieter.
Then I seriesed up 3 more parallel sets with my 10s to make a 13s, & tried it at 48v. That didn't seem to make much difference, to it's performance. Just doing it at a few less amps. The way that I will be using it, I won't be over stressing it anyway, so I am quite happy to stick with 36v. I'm quite commited to 36v. All my other e-bikes are 36v, & 10s is a nice round number.
I'm feeling like this is an awesome bike now. It's making my old legs feel 50yrs younger, & getting me up hills that have me walking if I'm on a road bike, or working a bit harder than I want to on most other e-bikes I've tried.
Now I've fully charged the battery to see if the extra performance comes at a cost to economy. So far it's looking good. I've done 45km, my Vlcd5 is telling me I've got 88.9% left, & I've still got 5 out of 6 bars on the gauge.
I'm thinking about my next project now (love retirement). Probably a stealthy road bike, with an AKM 128 CST. I want to use 36v but that motor seems to be only sold rated at 48v these days. I remember people using it at 36v & getting good torque. Anybody know if they're different windings these days?
Is your first motor 36 Volt or a 48 Volt power assist? You can buy a 36Volt coaster brake power assist and use it on any bike that you don't want a throttle even though you don't have a coaster brake. That's what I've done on my wife's bike and it works awesome.
https://www.electrifybike.com/ has them install.

BMboomer   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by BMboomer » Jul 16 2020 12:17am

Hi Jeff
I've got 4 e-bikes in my stable at the moment, all 36v. I have my original eBay 500w direct drive. A 250w legal step through, off the shelf Nomad ( local brand now out of business) I got that one for my wife for 1/2 price when they were selling off their stock. That's a rear XOFO geared hub. I've got a Cell urban Classic which I couldn't resist when they were getting sold through Aldi. It was on sale at $900Au. That's got a legal Entity system on it, with a nice torquey rear geared cassette hub motor, branded Entity, but has LNX 36v 250w 128 stamped on it. Very nice bike that. Very comfortable & quiet, but it hits a brick wall at 25 kph. Also has a very nice coloured Bluetooth display with a phone app, & USB.
Now I've got the Raceline MTB with the 36v TSDZ2. Which is great. I want to get a SW102 display for that one.
I want to do a Shwinn road bike next, & am thinking of an AKM 128-CST, hoping that it will be like the Entity motor, but without the 25 km limit. I can find it on Topbikekit, but they only seem to do the 48v version.
I wanted to buy from them, because they do the same Hailong battery case as I have on the Raceline, with the 5 round pin discharge connection, & I can bundle it with the motor & save some shipping. They also do a 22amp KT controller that will fit in that case & will keep things neat. If I get the 48v motor & run it at 36v, I'm afraid that I will loose 25% of it's speed & power. If I got a 48v faster wind one, I might loose out on torque at 36v, specially if I go over to 48v sometime in the future.

M4ttgreen   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by M4ttgreen » Jul 16 2020 2:46am

Trying to flash my sw102 display and getting error read version failed anyone have any ideas.

Jaybee258   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Jaybee258 » Jul 16 2020 12:07pm

Hi Guys
Apologies if this is not the right place for this type of help, but here goes.
I got my 860 display and TSDZ2 flashed and installed on my bike, but there are some issues.....
1. It takes 50 seconds to boot up
2. The screen shows " error brakes" on the black and white intro screen. There are no brake sensors fitted.
3. At this point, the only way ahead is via the configuration screen.
4. The configuration menus seem to work fine and I can then go to the main screen
5. There is only one main screen
6. I can change the indicated assist levels, but that is about it on the main screen.
7. On cycling, there is no electrical assist power to the wheels, no speed is shown and no power is indicated.
8. In ' technical' everything remains at 0 while cycling.
9. The battery shows full but reads 0.0v

I have changed some default settings for the wheel, battery and motor, but just basic ones. The flashing seemed to be successful at the time. Has anybody got any ideas of what to try next?

There are some great people on this forum freely offering time and knowledge, so a big thanks in advance. Also a big thanks for all the development from casainho and his willing team. Well done guys

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jul 16 2020 12:12pm

Jaybee258 wrote:
Jul 16 2020 12:07pm
Hi Guys
Apologies if this is not the right place for this type of help, but here goes.
I got my 860 display and TSDZ2 flashed and installed on my bike, but there are some issues.....
1. It takes 50 seconds to boot up
2. The screen shows " error brakes" on the black and white intro screen. There are no brake sensors fitted.
3. At this point, the only way ahead is via the configuration screen.
4. The configuration menus seem to work fine and I can then go to the main screen
5. There is only one main screen
6. I can change the indicated assist levels, but that is about it on the main screen.
7. On cycling, there is no electrical assist power to the wheels, no speed is shown and no power is indicated.
8. In ' technical' everything remains at 0 while cycling.
9. The battery shows full but reads 0.0v

I have changed some default settings for the wheel, battery and motor, but just basic ones. The flashing seemed to be successful at the time. Has anybody got any ideas of what to try next?

There are some great people on this forum freely offering time and knowledge, so a big thanks in advance. Also a big thanks for all the development from casainho and his willing team. Well done guys
TSDZ2 motor is not initializing, hence the error "error brakes" because could be the brakes active also. Make sure you did flash the firmware on TSDZ2 and the UART tx and rx connections are ok.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Jaybee258   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Jaybee258 » Jul 16 2020 1:20pm

Thank you casainho for the quick response. You are a star. Lots of good things to check out there. I will let you know what worked hopefully in a couple of weeks

famichiki   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 17 2020 4:51am

My motor has significant resistance when pedalling with the motor switched off and takes a lot of effort to maintain speed. If I want to try to fix it, where should I direct my attention?

ilu   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Jul 17 2020 7:23am

famichiki wrote:
Jul 17 2020 4:51am
My motor has significant resistance when pedalling with the motor switched off and takes a lot of effort to maintain speed. If I want to try to fix it, where should I direct my attention?
Clean and grease the main gear and the small gear driving it. The small gear is connected to the blue gear and maybe there's a problem with the one-way clutch in the blue gear? If that's not working, you're moving the whole gear chain and the motor when pedalling and it would create a lot of resistance.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Nfer » Jul 17 2020 8:15am

ilu wrote:
Jul 17 2020 7:23am
famichiki wrote:
Jul 17 2020 4:51am
My motor has significant resistance when pedalling with the motor switched off and takes a lot of effort to maintain speed. If I want to try to fix it, where should I direct my attention?
Clean and grease the main gear and the small gear driving it. The small gear is connected to the blue gear and maybe there's a problem with the one-way clutch in the blue gear? If that's not working, you're moving the whole gear chain and the motor when pedalling and it would create a lot of resistance.
I think the resistance in my case is more than significant. I thought that was normal

famichiki   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Jul 17 2020 8:41am

ilu wrote:
Jul 17 2020 7:23am
Clean and grease the main gear and the small gear driving it. The small gear is connected to the blue gear and maybe there's a problem with the one-way clutch in the blue gear? If that's not working, you're moving the whole gear chain and the motor when pedalling and it would create a lot of resistance.
Thanks for the tip. From what I've read, the drag varies between units and some are quite easy to pedal with the power off.

I've just watched jbalat's blue gear replacement video and it looks like that clutch in the blue gear could be it. I wonder if it's possible to hook up a multimeter to the power input connectors and see if anything is generated while spinning the cranks.

Before I pull it all apart though, does anyone know what size these screws are? I'd like to replace them with countersunk hex heads at the same time.
motor-screws.jpg
motor-screws.jpg (79.37 KiB) Viewed 779 times

rananna   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by rananna » Jul 17 2020 10:17am

I am trying to make a tsdz2 programming cable with a speed sensor extension cable, but the wire colors do not correspond to the wiki.
I have the following colors in the cable:
Yellow, orange,red,brown,black and green.

The is no purple or White as discussed in the wiki.
Have the extension cables changed their color scheme?

Davo   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Davo » Jul 17 2020 11:31am

Hello!
Newbie here.

Eco-bikes have a great step-by-step on programming the 850C: https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... e-tutorial

My question is... can I use the same tutorial to program the 860C? Are there any differences I need to be aware of?

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