New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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eyebyesickle
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Apr 10, 2018 7:15 pm

the TSDZ2 will work with a variety of display, jusst as someone mentioned, the controller was probably developed by kuteng, (probably spelling wrong, just typing a quick post, sorry) and it is pretty universal.

You can wire up from an 8 pin controller to use the throttle with XH-18, or even the 850c used with BAFANG, or this vldc-6, display mentioned above. There are slight problems sometimes however,and it is much easier to burn up your controller, so beware... im working on this stuff right now, and after I finish testing new displays etc, I was gonna fill everyone in =).

Lately, I saved the controller profiles for every type of motor, and have been comparing them to discover what different values mean. I combine this with what little TongSheng will tell me (they are stingy with info) and I am looking to get everything and anything we can out of this little motor =)

Thanks to everyone for their contributions around here!!
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Apr 10, 2018 7:19 pm

John and Cecil wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 7:11 pm
Maybe it does support a throttle, a seller on aliexpress has an entire package including motor and throttle and vlcd6 (but no brake handles)...
Yes, even when 'hard wiring' a throttle with the xh18 display, the brake signal actually interferes with the motor/display functions... so thats a thing... beware also, the 'hard, or forced' wiring of a throttle from an 8 pin controller, to a 6 pin display can cause your controller to burn up... as I mentioned above
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by gggplaya » Apr 10, 2018 8:04 pm

Minivelorider wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 4:27 pm
asterduc wrote:
Mar 29, 2018 1:19 am
John and Cecil wrote:
Mar 28, 2018 1:54 pm
Maybe there are different stock chainrings.
I didn't yet realize, but my bikes have 1/8" chain.
The TSDZ2 chainring is most probably designed for 3/32" chain.
I just checked and yes, the TSDZ2 front 42T is definitely for 3/32”. I tried it with a short length of 3/32” first:

40A600DA-EE89-409C-8998-6E6A75FB3385.jpeg

Given that the TSDZ2 has a 50.2mm chainline, and my rear sprocket on my Sturmey Archer X-RF8(W) hub is about 43mm, I’m wondering if a 6-7-8 speed 3/32” chain is actually more “flexible” sideways than an 1/8” chain. (I read somewhere online that advances are being made on derailleur chains, and not on single-speed chains.)

So I switched my S-A rear sprocket from 1/8” to 3/32” (saved 10 grams!) and chain too (saved 46 grams!).
2488E4AB-83F0-4DDE-9B10-CDEB176226A3.jpeg

B3964984-ACDA-4592-9C16-C8C2ECDD78FD.jpeg


Summary: it seems to work fine, no perceptable difference.
Chain's aren't too expensive, but it sucks when you're out in the middle of nowhere and it breaks. I bought the strongest rated 3/32 chain I could find. These are for single speed BMW and Fixie track bikes, so they don't have the provisions for shifting on a derailleur, but that makes them stronger because the side plates are thicker. I use this since I also have an internally geared hub (Nuvinci N380) which has a max sprocket size of 3/32. http://kmcchain.us/chaintype/heavy-duty-series/

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 10, 2018 11:16 pm

IIRC, at least originally, these kits had to be ordered with a throttle, and one coudlnt' be added afterward. If that's true of the new LCD version as well, then the ones offered with a throttle may be the only ones that support one.

Something to think about and check on.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 10, 2018 11:20 pm

gggplaya wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 8:04 pm
I use this since I also have an internally geared hub (Nuvinci N380) which has a max sprocket size of 3/32.
If you file, grind, or machine the inner circumference of a thicker sprocket so it's no thicker than that, you could use any thickness you like, and thus any chain type. ;)

You could even modify a belt sprocket to fit it, though that might take more effort.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Mantsos » Apr 11, 2018 2:50 am

My wife is going to buy that TSDZ2 motor (version 48v 500w) and I have currently one extra battery 48v 14.5ah so can she use that 48v 14.5ah battery with that TSDZ2 motor? Or does she have to buy some other battery?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by gggplaya » Apr 11, 2018 5:48 am

Mantsos wrote:
Apr 11, 2018 2:50 am
My wife is going to buy that TSDZ2 motor (version 48v 500w) and I have currently one extra battery 48v 14.5ah so can she use that 48v 14.5ah battery with that TSDZ2 motor? Or does she have to buy some other battery?
Should work just fine.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Apr 11, 2018 10:28 pm

casainho wrote:
Apr 09, 2018 4:36 pm
tomjasz wrote:
Apr 09, 2018 4:22 pm
casainho wrote:
Apr 09, 2018 3:25 pm
Sorry, don't know what you mean.
Are you saying they will sell the BB part and no need for the rest?
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/689-b- ... e-kit.html
See here one e-mail that I sent and the answer:

Image
Safari won’t open...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Apr 11, 2018 10:34 pm

amberwolf wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 11:16 pm
IIRC, at least originally, these kits had to be ordered with a throttle, and one coudlnt' be added afterward. If that's true of the new LCD version as well, then the ones offered with a throttle may be the only ones that support one.

Something to think about and check on.
When i ordered mine it was sent without throttle or brake cut off features. I had to order another controller. That one came with only brake cut offs, the third came with brake cut offs and a throttle connection. A couple of dealers suggeste the first version i recieved was the most reliable. Growing pains I guess. Seems that eyebicycle (sp?) is the most reliable source, over factory direct.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 12, 2018 12:13 pm

Does anyone know if the 48v motor can run on a 12s battery configuration? Someone mentioned lowes sells inexpensive 6s tool batteries that can be brought on a plane, I would like to wire two together to make a 12s battery. I am not sure if the low power cutoff for the motor will kick in too early though.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Apr 12, 2018 12:43 pm

tomjasz wrote:
Apr 11, 2018 10:34 pm
amberwolf wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 11:16 pm
IIRC, at least originally, these kits had to be ordered with a throttle, and one coudlnt' be added afterward. If that's true of the new LCD version as well, then the ones offered with a throttle may be the only ones that support one.

Something to think about and check on.
When i ordered mine it was sent without throttle or brake cut off features. I had to order another controller. That one came with only brake cut offs, the third came with brake cut offs and a throttle connection. A couple of dealers suggeste the first version i recieved was the most reliable. Growing pains I guess. Seems that eyebicycle (sp?) is the most reliable source, over factory direct.

Thanks, yeah I did considerable testing and experimenting with these, after experiencing the same types of issues when I first started playing with these...

Soon I'll have a little article drafted outlining some of the important info for the TSDZ2... Including wiring/pinout for the 8 pin.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Apr 12, 2018 12:47 pm

John and Cecil wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 12:13 pm
Does anyone know if the 48v motor can run on a 12s battery configuration? Someone mentioned lowes sells inexpensive 6s tool batteries that can be brought on a plane, I would like to wire two together to make a 12s battery. I am not sure if the low power cutoff for the motor will kick in too early though.

LVC for the 48v systems is set at 39v, so this will work with a 12s, but you won't completely drain the 12s, which isn't the worst thing, especially if you have a bunch enough battery to achieve desired range before the LVC
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 12, 2018 1:10 pm

eyebyesickle wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 12:47 pm

LVC for the 48v systems is set at 39v, so this will work with a 12s, but you won't completely drain the 12s, which isn't the worst thing, especially if you have a bunch enough battery to achieve desired range before the LVC
I guess a 44v 12s battery normally drains to about 36v? I know my 52v gets down to about 44v before it loses most of it's power.

I cannot win! I can't use the top 3v of the 52v battery and I cant use the bottom 3v of the 44v battery. But at least the 2 6s batteries can go on the plane, it will be nice to be able to sit outside the airport and assemble the bike and actually have power to ride away :) Thank you.

I wonder if the programming software will be able to change the 39v to a lower number...

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 12, 2018 1:16 pm

John and Cecil wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 1:10 pm
eyebyesickle wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 12:47 pm

LVC for the 48v systems is set at 39v, so this will work with a 12s, but you won't completely drain the 12s, which isn't the worst thing, especially if you have a bunch enough battery to achieve desired range before the LVC
I guess a 44v 12s battery normally drains to about 36v? I know my 52v gets down to about 44v before it loses most of it's power.

I cannot win! I can't use the top 3v of the 52v battery and I cant use the bottom 3v of the 44v battery. But at least the 2 6s batteries can go on the plane, it will be nice to be able to sit outside the airport and assemble the bike and actually have power to ride away :) Thank you.

I wonder if the programming software will be able to change the 39v to a lower number...
We know the controller is the same for 36V up to 52V battery -- we just can't configure the original firmware for our custom voltages, only the factory can do it because they own amd have the original firmware. This will change soon, as I should receive my motor and I will develop from scratch our Flexible OpenSource firmware and then anyone will be able to select any custom voltage that the hardware supports. If I get help from community, I will develop it even faster, I will need users to test the different voltages, etc.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers:
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/
- TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... ment_tsdz2

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 12, 2018 2:16 pm

I am sure you will have many volunteers to try the firmware upgrades here! :)

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Apr 12, 2018 7:27 pm

yep would love to run 11s on my 36v !!!
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by AWD » Apr 12, 2018 9:33 pm

casainho wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 1:16 pm

If I get help from community, I will develop it even faster, I will need users to test the different voltages, etc.
Just let us know what you need. Thanks for your efforts btw!

We are working on the TS bugs here also. I feel it is well worth the effort to fine tune a torque sensing mid drive that is adaptable and relatively inexpensive. The ability to program the controller is all that is really missing. Other than an octalink type bb spindle and an offset chainring.

I feel as time goes on the industry push towards integrated batteries and motors requiring special frames will keep becoming more popular. But if one is keen on keeping up with technology advances as they occur an open source kit type system is the way to go. But I am not telling you guys anything you don't know.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 12, 2018 11:22 pm

AWD wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 9:33 pm
casainho wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 1:16 pm

If I get help from community, I will develop it even faster, I will need users to test the different voltages, etc.
Just let us know what you need. Thanks for your efforts btw!
For now I need high resolution pictures of inside of the motor controler.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers:
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/
- TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... ment_tsdz2

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wheex » Apr 13, 2018 3:47 am

Tomorrow I can take photos from a 48V controller, I 'm struggling to open the unit because I ruined the four screws head that hold the case.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 13, 2018 3:55 am

wheex wrote:
Apr 13, 2018 3:47 am
Tomorrow I can take photos from a 48V controller, I 'm struggling to open the unit because I ruined the four screws head that hold the case.
Thanks!!! Please try to take them in a way that we can see the reference of the 2 big ICs, one shoild be the microcontroller STM8S105xx and the other should be the driver for the power mosfets (no one knows yet which IC is this one).
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers:
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/
- TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... ment_tsdz2

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mscoot » Apr 13, 2018 5:51 am

jbalat wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 7:27 pm
yep would love to run 11s on my 36v !!!
Do you need a firmware update for that? I can run 11s on my 36v. I've tried it and it works: slightly more power at a slightly higher cadence. Once my current 10s battery dies, I'll be replacing it with an 11s.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 13, 2018 5:59 am

AWD wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 9:33 pm
I feel as time goes on the industry push towards integrated batteries and motors requiring special frames will keep becoming more popular. But if one is keen on keeping up with technology advances as they occur an open source kit type system is the way to go. But I am not telling you guys anything you don't know.
Yeah!! We also need DIY options and also "cheap"/accessible. And we need to cooperate and help ourselves, since this "cheap"/accessible DIY kits business model is different -- we can't expect to pay cheap for the parts and have a good support from the seller, good documentation, a lot of marketing material like selling videos, etc.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers:
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/
- TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... ment_tsdz2

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 13, 2018 9:23 am

Yeah I agree, we definitely need diy options. Most manufactured e-bikes are ridiculously overpriced (gouging) or they are made with crap components. Before I built my Raleigh kodiak bike I considered Raleigh's electric kodiak model. It is priced at 4k and it has a nice bosch mid drive but it is only a 250w motor. Mine was $1000 so far but with only a 2ah battery and a 750w motor. Their electric bike has better components and a larger battery, however I seriously doubt it costs them over $1500-2000 to manufacture one so it has a $2000-2500 markup fee.

There is too much junk in the world, and it all ends up going into landfills. We need to reuse what we already have, and we need to repair rather than replace. That is what I like about this motor (and the Bafang mid drives), the parts are replaceable and it is simple to work on so it will hopefully last a long time.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 13, 2018 10:10 am

John and Cecil wrote:
Apr 13, 2018 9:23 am
There is too much junk in the world, and it all ends up going into landfills. We need to reuse what we already have, and we need to repair rather than replace. That is what I like about this motor (and the Bafang mid drives), the parts are replaceable and it is simple to work on so it will hopefully last a long time.
That is also my motivation!! And with our own firmware, we will need to go further, to reuse a battery pack we already have but have 1 or 2 more cells comparing to the standard 36v battery, etc. Add a throttle to a controller model that doesn't support it, etc.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers:
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/
- TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... ment_tsdz2

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 13, 2018 10:15 am

casainho wrote:
Apr 13, 2018 10:10 am

That is also my motivation!! And with our own firmware, we will need to go further, to reuse a battery pack we already have but have 1 or 2 more cells comparing to the standard 36v battery, etc. Add a throttle to a controller model that doesn't support it, etc.
I agree, I really wanted this motor but because of the firmware I almost went with the BBS02 because of the programming function. Being able to adjust firmware settings is almost a necessity. :)

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