New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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echew   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by echew » May 24 2018 7:42pm

Interesting, I see recycles-ebike.com have dual 34/42 and 42/52 chainrings available:

http://recycles-ebike.com/home/80-dual- ... 34-42.html
http://recycles-ebike.com/home/81-dual- ... 34-42.html

Perhaps these would give more flexibility than a wide ratio rear cassette?

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John and Cecil   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » May 24 2018 11:03pm

echew wrote:
May 24 2018 7:42pm
Interesting, I see recycles-ebike.com have dual 34/42 and 42/52 chainrings available:

http://recycles-ebike.com/home/80-dual- ... 34-42.html
http://recycles-ebike.com/home/81-dual- ... 34-42.html

Perhaps these would give more flexibility than a wide ratio rear cassette?
I think it depends on where and how you ride. For me less gears is better. 2 chainrings might be nice if climbing a lot of steep hills I guess. For my bike with a wide ratio (11-40 8spd) it will do 30mph @90 rpm in 8th and 8mph @90 rpm in 1st. That means to climb a steep hill I need to maintain at least 6mph (75% of max rpm), so the only reason I would need the dual chainring would be if I need to climb steep hills at a speed slower than 6mph. When you have a motor assist having a gear optimized for every 1-2mph doesn't seem necessary and at least for me it becomes very tedious shifting several gears at a time.

Here is my top motor speeds (90rpm) in 8 gears with a 42 front and 11-40 rear - 8, 9.5, 11.5, 15, 18, 21.5, 25, 29.5mph
now with a 34t front those speeds would change to - 6.5, 8, 9.5, 12, 14.5, 17.5, 20, 24mph

If you were pedaling those extra gears might be helpful, but with the motor assisting 1mph either way is nothing. The only thing you are really getting from the dual chainring is that 6.5mph @90 which will allow you to climb a hill at as low as 5mph.

Maybe the experienced bike riders feel differently, but for me I would prefer less gears. Ideally I would like a 6 speed that would go something like 6, 10, 14, 18, 22, and 26mph, and most of the time I would only be using the middle 4 gears. :) The motor makes the close ratio gears obsolete, at least for me. I do not push up hills either so that probably influences my gearing choices, I like to let the motor do most of the work on inclines.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by matte2k » May 24 2018 11:37pm

casainho wrote:
May 24 2018 4:23pm
matte2k wrote:
May 24 2018 4:17pm
Today I started to hear a noise from the motor.
What could have happened?
Only driven it for around 500km.

https://youtu.be/zp20hXgJNKk
The nyon blue gear is start to failing, at least I got that sound when my failed. Open the motor and inspect the blue gear and see if you spot the teeth with some different shape.

I moved to metal gear and also installed the brake sensors -- I am very happy now :-)
Where can I find the brake sensors?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 24 2018 11:54pm

matte2k wrote:
May 24 2018 11:37pm
casainho wrote:
May 24 2018 4:23pm
matte2k wrote:
May 24 2018 4:17pm
Today I started to hear a noise from the motor.
What could have happened?
Only driven it for around 500km.

https://youtu.be/zp20hXgJNKk
The nyon blue gear is start to failing, at least I got that sound when my failed. Open the motor and inspect the blue gear and see if you spot the teeth with some different shape.

I moved to metal gear and also installed the brake sensors -- I am very happy now :-)
Where can I find the brake sensors?
If you prefer to keep the original brake levers of the bicycle, buy the Hidden Brake Sensors: https://bmsbattery.com/parts/459-hwbs-h ... parts.html
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

matte2k   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by matte2k » May 25 2018 12:41am

casainho wrote:
May 24 2018 11:54pm
matte2k wrote:
May 24 2018 11:37pm
casainho wrote:
May 24 2018 4:23pm
matte2k wrote:
May 24 2018 4:17pm
Today I started to hear a noise from the motor.
What could have happened?
Only driven it for around 500km.

https://youtu.be/zp20hXgJNKk
The nyon blue gear is start to failing, at least I got that sound when my failed. Open the motor and inspect the blue gear and see if you spot the teeth with some different shape.

I moved to metal gear and also installed the brake sensors -- I am very happy now :-)
Where can I find the brake sensors?
If you prefer to keep the original brake levers of the bicycle, buy the Hidden Brake Sensors: https://bmsbattery.com/parts/459-hwbs-h ... parts.html
Are those plug n play ready with TSDZ2?
How much loader are the metal gear? Think my motor is pretty loaud as it is.

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 25 2018 1:43am

matte2k wrote:
May 25 2018 12:41am
casainho wrote:
May 24 2018 11:54pm
matte2k wrote:
May 24 2018 11:37pm
casainho wrote:
May 24 2018 4:23pm

The nyon blue gear is start to failing, at least I got that sound when my failed. Open the motor and inspect the blue gear and see if you spot the teeth with some different shape.

I moved to metal gear and also installed the brake sensors -- I am very happy now :-)
Where can I find the brake sensors?
If you prefer to keep the original brake levers of the bicycle, buy the Hidden Brake Sensors: https://bmsbattery.com/parts/459-hwbs-h ... parts.html
Are those plug n play ready with TSDZ2?
How much loader are the metal gear? Think my motor is pretty loaud as it is.
Yes in the sense that the brake connector under the LCD has the needed 3 wires for that sensor: 5V, GND and brake signal.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Speady   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Speady » May 25 2018 5:41am

echew wrote:
May 24 2018 7:25pm
-a single right side Bafang crankarm to fix the huge offset - I was unaware of an offset issue, is this something a lot of people have experienced?
There has been several complaints already, as the TSDZ2 offers both, a huge Q- factor and the crankarms not centered to the middle of the bike frame. A single crankarm is only $10.
-a wide ratio cassette as you will have just a single front chainwheel then - Ah, didn't think of this either, good point
A dual front chainring would worsen the already bad chainline. Let alone the hassle to find a suitable front derailleur.
-shrink tube, plastic wrap and zip ties - What is the plastic wrap for? You mean like gladwrap??
Sorry I meant spiral wrap 6mm as the cable harness is way too long and you need to hide and protect some cables anyway. Something like that: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/6mm-Spir ... autifyAB=0

-if you go for brake switches, get those 2-pin. Of course you could wire in some 3-pin, as there is 5V at the third pin on the VLCD sockets available, but it doesn't work well. The stock Display requires a On/Off signal the 3-pin hall sensor simply can't deliver.Depending on the brakes of your donor bike you can use the switches that come with the drive unit

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 25 2018 6:12am

Speady wrote:
May 25 2018 5:41am
-if you go for brake switches, get those 2-pin. Of course you could wire in some 3-pin, as there is 5V at the third pin on the VLCD sockets available, but it doesn't work well. The stock Display requires a On/Off signal the 3-pin hall sensor simply can't deliver.Depending on the brakes of your donor bike you can use the switches that come with the drive unit
A 3 pin sensor is working perfectly for me. On my ebike I use 2 hidden brake sensor types.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Speady   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Speady » May 25 2018 7:36am

For those that already have the cable brake cutoffs that come with the drive unit lying around collecting dust. The switches can be glued into the gap of the Shimano BR-315, BR-447, BR-M615 and so on hydraulic levers as well.You just have to dismantle the switch completely
Image

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Speady » May 25 2018 7:39am

casainho wrote:
May 25 2018 6:12am
A 3 pin sensor is working perfectly for me. On my ebike I use 2 hidden brake sensor types.
Did you try them on a stock VLCD-5 Display or not.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 25 2018 7:43am

Speady wrote:
May 25 2018 7:39am
casainho wrote:
May 25 2018 6:12am
A 3 pin sensor is working perfectly for me. On my ebike I use 2 hidden brake sensor types.
Did you try them on a stock VLCD-5 Display or not.
Yes, on stock VLCD-5. (also the wires for the brake sensors comes directly from the motor controller and not from the LCD).
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Speady   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Speady » May 25 2018 8:16am

Did you try them on a stock VLCD-5 Display or not.
Yes, on stock VLCD-5. (also the wires for the brake sensors comes directly from the motor controller and not from the LCD).
Yeah, you're talking about cable brake switches.
I meant, did you ever tried the common (Bafang) 3-pin magnetic brake sensors suitable for hydraulic brakes, on a stock VLCD-5.
Some like these:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/BAFANG-H ... 46023.html

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 25 2018 11:37am

KT LCD3 now shows TSDZ2 brakes state :-) -- and that was another improvement to original firmware we did, as that information is not sent to LCD on original firmware.

On the KT LCD3 firmware, now the assist level number is always stored on the persistent memory of the LCD and so it persist over power on and off (on the video I am shutting off the power on the battery power switch) -- this way the LCD saves the last configured (maybe the preferred value? I am always on level 3) from the user. This is another improvement over TSDZ2 original LCD VLCD-5 that always start at assist level 1.

So, we have now 2 different active projects to make this possible:
1. improvement of the TSDZ2 original firmware (mainly to send and receive firmware internal data to LCD, like the motor current, brake state, etc)
2. KT LCD3 firmware developed from scratch to support the 1. improvement of the TSDZ2 original firmware and add features like showing real time battery/motor current, wattage, rider human power on the pedals, etc.

And this would not be possible without the help of the other current active developers:
- hurzhurz on project 1.
- nieles on project 2.

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by pawepie » May 25 2018 1:15pm

Does anyone have a copy of the firmware for other "stock" controllers other than the 36v (15a?) that casainho has provided? It would be nice to compare the files to better understand the values controlling voltage and current limits.

I'd love to be able to edit the stock values for voltage, current and speed limits while the open-source firmware is being developed!

As I've posted before - I've had good luck modifying the Data Memory to change the upper voltage cut-off using ST visual programmer through Windows - no luck on current or the speed limit (though I think I could program that 'off' through the controller...haven't verified that yet).

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 25 2018 1:25pm

Go to github for the OpenSource firmware and you have there also for the 48V version.

So, first byte of EEPROM is the lower voltage limit. 2nd byte nominal voltage, all them divord by 2.5.
3rd byte the current in amps.

Did you try to change 3rd byte??
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

echew   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by echew » May 25 2018 3:17pm

Speady wrote:
May 25 2018 5:41am
There has been several complaints already, as the TSDZ2 offers both, a huge Q- factor and the crankarms not centered to the middle of the bike frame. A single crankarm is only $10.
Ah ok, and the bafang is the only crankarm that will fit this? Just asking as they're not readily available in my country and would have to order in specifically.
Speady wrote:
May 25 2018 5:41am
A dual front chainring would worsen the already bad chainline. Let alone the hassle to find a suitable front derailleur.
Is there anything that can be done about improving the chainline?

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John and Cecil   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » May 25 2018 3:49pm

Using the stock 42t offset chainring helps. It depends a lot on if the motor slides all the way in or if it hits something before reaching the edge of the bb. My chainline appears to line up on around 5th gear on my 8 speed cassette, and with the 34t non-offset chainring (anything less than 42 or so cannot be offset due to motor housing)it lined up around 6th gear. Halfway between 4th and 5th would be dead center on the cassette so it lines up well on my plus bike with boost spacing (148mm rear). Someone mentioned a 10mm offset 42 chainring a few pages back, the stock chainring appears to be offset about half that amount. I would try the stock chainring first and then go from there.

The cranks seem fine to me, I did not notice anything when I first put the motor on but I haven't ridden a bike in many years so I mught not notice as well as others. I would try it out first and then make improvements after you get some miles on it.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 25 2018 3:59pm

John and Cecil wrote:
May 25 2018 3:49pm
The cranks seem fine to me, I did not notice anything when I first put the motor on but I haven't ridden a bike in many years so I mught not notice as well as others. I would try it out first and then make improvements after you get some miles on it.
Aren't the cranks equal, both left side?? Because I got 2 motors with both a pair of just left side cranks...
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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John and Cecil   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » May 25 2018 4:45pm

My 2 crank arms are identical too. I believe the complaints stem from the cranks arms not being centered in the bb, I guess because of the motor housing.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by echew » May 25 2018 4:55pm

Thanks @John and @casainho - I think I'll do as you suggest, see how the stock set-up looks on my bike and then take it from there.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » May 26 2018 4:53am

Most riders do not notice the offset whilst riding, it is there, its very noticeable but the human body just adapts such is its flexible joints.

For those who want to reduce the offset on the right hand side then simply fit one of the Bafung right hand pedals or if you want a bit better quality then a lot of the BMX pedals also are available. Shimano E6000 series are such a pedal.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 26 2018 5:10am

echew wrote:
May 25 2018 4:55pm
Thanks @John and @casainho - I think I'll do as you suggest, see how the stock set-up looks on my bike and then take it from there.
This is new for me:
John and Cecil wrote:
May 25 2018 4:45pm
My 2 crank arms are identical too. I believe the complaints stem from the cranks arms not being centered in the bb, I guess because of the motor housing.
You will need 2 left pedals, while usually you buy a pair of pedal L + R but you will need 2 L pedals. Also, I think that glue for using on the pedal threads is a must, at least for the right side where you will using a left one and will tend to get loose.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bigwheel » May 26 2018 8:00am

casainho wrote:
May 25 2018 3:59pm
John and Cecil wrote:
May 25 2018 3:49pm
The cranks seem fine to me, I did not notice anything when I first put the motor on but I haven't ridden a bike in many years so I mught not notice as well as others. I would try it out first and then make improvements after you get some miles on it.
Aren't the cranks equal, both left side?? Because I got 2 motors with both a pair of just left side cranks...
The difference between the the left and right cranks is the pedal threading. One is the reverse of the other to keep the pedal axle from coming out due to the rotation of the cranks. This is standard with all bikes.

The reason to use the Bafang crank(s) is because the are straighter without any offset which will decrease Q factor, especially on the drive side. I use them on both sides but the left one may not work and hit the chainstay.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » May 26 2018 8:05am

Well, at least the cranks I got, 4 of them, were all market with L on backside. And I had to open a second pair of pedals because the right on me was not threading and so I had to put another left pedal on the right side. Or I did something wrong??
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by m3lonbr3ad » May 26 2018 11:19am

casainho wrote:
May 26 2018 8:05am
Well, at least the cranks I got, 4 of them, were all market with L on backside. And I had to open a second pair of pedals because the right on me was not threading and so I had to put another left pedal on the right side. Or I did something wrong??
You cannot put an R pedal in an L crank arm. As bigwheel and others mentioned the threading is reversed on one side so that pedaling does not cause the pedal to loosen itself. So you need an R crank arm with an R pedal and an L crank arm with an L pedal.
Last edited by m3lonbr3ad on May 26 2018 11:25am, edited 3 times in total.

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