New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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eyebyesickle
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Apr 13, 2018 11:13 am

Here, I dug up some older pics I had of the controllers... I can label the wires if you need, but I think more than that you will probably need better pics :oops: haha. Let me know I have some controllers sitting around I can snap some better pics if able... Maybe circle the areas you really need clearer, and I will focus on those specific components etc... Just let me know!

8 pin controller:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1eXOho ... bf8k-T4cRS

6 pin controller:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LAtOL ... Gi4RCXARKJ
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 13, 2018 11:19 am

Thanks.

Is not visible any reference of them. Maybe you need to take from front the cables and take from different angles because of the potting.
Take as reference this pictures of a controller board: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... _S12S.html

Any idea on how to remove the potting?? We will need for soldering wires, like for adding a throttle or shift sensor, etc.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers:
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/
- TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... ment_tsdz2

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eyebyesickle
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Apr 13, 2018 12:49 pm

casainho wrote:
Apr 13, 2018 11:19 am
Thanks.

Is not visible any reference of them. Maybe you need to take from front the cables and take from different angles because of the potting.
Take as reference this pictures of a controller board: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... _S12S.html

Any idea on how to remove the potting?? We will need for soldering wires, like for adding a throttle or shift sensor, etc.
Yeah I see your other post where you specify what you want, I'll take some new pics. Those were just older pics I had from way back when I was comparing overhead wiring to the controller layout diagram I have. It doesnt list parts, just ports as J1,J2,J3,etc etc...

Yeah, they made sure to cover the one part with a sticker after inspection, and before potting, huh?

Potting is hard to remove cleanly - I hear you can dissolve this, but this isn't my field and obviously any solvent may cause damage. If you want to be real patient, you can wipe it away clean with a small rubber tip tool or something similar... take patience and a steady hand though.

The throttle is wired in, wouldn't need to add that unless I am missing something.

For the gear sensor - I take it we are not aiming to just split the brake cable, we need a separate port with slightly different settings to achieve proper functioning? I remember the BBS first just split the brake cable, but then the new ones have a separate plug, and I never checked personally but I assume the function is slightly different than with the brake port?

Anyway here are the pics... they have one covered up with the sticker, under the potting...sorry for low quality!
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casainho
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 13, 2018 1:10 pm

THANKS!!!

So, the STM8S105 has 16 bytes of flash memory only, so, I guess it odes only 6 steps/block commutation. For our firmware on STM8S105 with 64 kbytes flash memory for Kunteng controllers, that implements "very low resolution FOC", firmware currently uses about 20 kbytes flash memory.

The mosfet driver is the FAN7888 (with a clear label "EBIKE"), from OnSemi, datasheet: http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/pr ... id=FAN7888

Should I start a new thread to discuss the firmware development?? After 1 year, the firmware thread for Kunteng motor controllers has 84 pages.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers:
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/
- TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... ment_tsdz2

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John and Cecil
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 13, 2018 8:47 pm

My tail light arrived today (and my cruiser seat - YAY!) but my headlight won't arrive for another couple of weeks. I am not sure if I should hook the tail light up to the usb or the 6v lighting connection. I want to use the connection with the most watts for the headlight. Does anyone have a hunch which one might put out more watts? I don't think the voltage will matter (5v vs 6v). Thanks!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bigwheel » Apr 14, 2018 6:56 am

casainho wrote:
Apr 13, 2018 1:10 pm

Should I start a new thread to discuss the firmware development?? After 1 year, the firmware thread for Kunteng motor controllers has 84 pages.
Good idea. If it would help we could send you a failed controller.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 14, 2018 12:55 pm

Bigwheel wrote:
Apr 14, 2018 6:56 am
casainho wrote:
Apr 13, 2018 1:10 pm

Should I start a new thread to discuss the firmware development?? After 1 year, the firmware thread for Kunteng motor controllers has 84 pages.
Good idea. If it would help we could send you a failed controller.
Thanks!! I will need spare parts for the development, even if they are not working. I just sent a PM with my address - thank you!!
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers:
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/
- TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... ment_tsdz2

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Apr 15, 2018 6:41 am

We should be thanking you for doing all the development work, I wish I could do more to help other than offer to test any developments as my programing skills are poor but quite handy with the electronics and installation side.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kjmac » Apr 15, 2018 6:43 am

Hello
Can anyone help me? I have a Yuba Super Marche and I am very keen to install this motor on it but I just am not sure that it will fit. Has anyone tried it? Or does anyone have access to this bike and a motor that they could try for me?
Here is a picture of the frame at the bottom bracket.
Also, has anyone tried this with a gear change sensor? Any compatible?Image: https://photos.app.goo.gl/l6vc8p7pn99vNXOa2
Last edited by Kjmac on Apr 15, 2018 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Apr 15, 2018 6:46 am

You don't need a gear change sensor, simply stop pedaling for a fraction of a second as you change gear, the TDSZ2 kills power almost immediately once the rotation of the pedal stops.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kjmac » Apr 15, 2018 6:48 am

So do you not even need the brake cut offs?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Apr 15, 2018 6:56 am

Yup waste of money unlike the Bafung units which definately does need them

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Apr 15, 2018 6:58 am

The other thing to consider is the TDSZ2 engine is not that powerful and my Shimano 10speed seems to shift up and down no problem at all under load even though I have a 11 - 42 setup on the rear cassette.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kjmac » Apr 15, 2018 7:24 am

Thank you.
Any ideas on fitting on my odd ball bike frame?
4BCA5B6E-65B9-4F4D-BA5D-D170F1B7DD36.jpeg

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kjmac » Apr 15, 2018 7:28 am

When you say it’s not powerful. Is the 350w less powerful than a 250w bafang? How do they compare on torque?

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John and Cecil
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 15, 2018 9:24 am

My motor is 750w and in turbo mode it is not happy at all shifting into higher gears under load while pedaling. It does shift ok under eco mode while pedaling though. I suggest pausing your pedaling for a second or two when shifting. Even if the motor does not quite stop before you shift you won't have the added torque from your legs and it will shift the chain onto the next gear on it's own. The combined torque from motor and legs seems to be pretty brutal on the gears.

The brake sensors are complete waste unless your brain is wired to not know that you need to let off the throttle or stop pedaling when you want to stop. I have never had this happen, my biggest issue is occasionally I instinctively grab the brake lever during shifts thinking it is the clutch :)

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 15, 2018 9:34 am

Kjmac wrote:
Apr 15, 2018 7:24 am
Thank you.
Any ideas on fitting on my odd ball bike frame?4BCA5B6E-65B9-4F4D-BA5D-D170F1B7DD36.jpeg
Maybe the Bafang 250w can be mod'd with firmware for more power. The 750w is not very powerful either. With that large bike you might want to go with more than 350w (especially for hills) unless there is a reason you need to keep the power down. I ride my 750w motor on eco mode and that is only minimal assist, but when a hill approaches I clamp down on the throttle for max power.

You should measure your bottom bracket to determine if it will fit (width and diameter). It might be good to see the side of the frame where the chainrings are too, it looks like your frame curves out on that side. No part of the motor really goes on the side where you took the pic.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Farther » Apr 15, 2018 9:43 am

What battery connectors come on this motor? Looking at getting the 48v 500 w version and a 48v dolphin pack from Luna. They recommend their XT 90 connectors. Thoughts?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 15, 2018 9:57 am

John and Cecil wrote:
Apr 15, 2018 9:34 am
Maybe the Bafang 250w can be mod'd with firmware for more power. The 750w is not very powerful either. With that large bike you might want to go with more than 350w (especially for hills) unless there is a reason you need to keep the power down. I ride my 750w motor on eco mode and that is only minimal assist, but when a hill approaches I clamp down on the throttle for max power.
You guys can measure the real electric power with a multimeter to verify, since seams some shops are selling/advertize with higher than real characteristics. I measured with a multimeter in series with the battery, than can measure max of 20 amps.

I setup on the firmware max of 12.5 amps (current draw from battery):

Code: Select all

#define ADC_BATTERY_CURRENT_MAX 35 // each unit equal to 0.35 amps
then I blocked the wheel, put max force on the pedal and max assist level, and did measure on the multimeter:
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers:
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/
- TongSheng TSDZ2 mid drive motor controller: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbuck ... ment_tsdz2

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Apr 15, 2018 10:04 am

Guys, Watts is Watts and if you think 350W of power is not as powerful as 250W then I would perhaps like to ask you for $5 and give you $4 back, would you be happy.

My 500W unit will change OK through the whole range of power levels, some are saying that at 750W the changes are not so smooth, the TDSZ2 unit is torque sensitive, just back off on your power input a bit and you will be at 500W.

The XT90 connectors are big and brash, do you really need them as they are rated at 90 amps ( sorry I don't know at what voltage that's measured ). A nice comparison can be found at https://translate.google.com/translate? ... .-bu..html

I have run the XT60 at 58volts 25A without problem and they feel about the right size in relation to the battery.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 15, 2018 10:10 am

Watts may be watts, but watt ratings is not watt ratings. A motor rated at 250w may very well put out more than 250w of power. I believe the bafang bbs02 is rated at 750w but per Luna's website it can put out 1300w of power with just a software change. I don't think the 750w tsdz2 will be able to handle anything near that without hardware upgrades.

I would be very careful testing amp output of the motor by locking the rear wheel, I suspect the little blue gear is not going to like that at all :( It is nice to know the settings work though, I think I will try to lower my max output gradually until I can feel the difference when climbing hills. That should give me a ballpark idea of my motors max power with my 2ah battery.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by John and Cecil » Apr 15, 2018 11:07 am

Well I played with the amp settings on mine just now. I started out from a stop on a hill in 8a, then 16a, and then 2a. All 3 power levels were identical and at the same point up the hill using throttle only I was doing 5.8 mph. Am I doing something wrong or is the setting useless, perhaps with the VLCD5 display?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raw_bullitt » Apr 15, 2018 1:07 pm

Kjmac wrote:
Apr 15, 2018 7:24 am
Thank you.
Any ideas on fitting on my odd ball bike frame?4BCA5B6E-65B9-4F4D-BA5D-D170F1B7DD36.jpeg
Hello!

It won't fit, but you can make it fit. I installed the motor on a bullitt (cargobike) which has a similar frame setup as on your picture. You will have to grind the bracket that stops it from rotating away. I also had to take the cover of during installation and once the motor is in place put the cover back on. Now it fits snug and drives like a charm, but I guess my warranty is gone 😬. Let me know if you're planning to take on the project and I can send you some pics

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Kjmac » Apr 15, 2018 2:50 pm

Thank you rawbullitt.
Bottom bracket size will be fine. It’s that hurting down but of frame that’s bothering me.
So one on you say the motor will fit inside that bit of frame? Would love to see photos.

In terms of size. Technically limited to 300w here. I run a 350w bewo on a Christiania trike at the moment and that gets me up hills absolutely fine. But neither of my bikes can take a bafang. So was just wondering if this motor has less torque than equivalent bafang or not.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by itchyfoot42 » Apr 15, 2018 8:44 pm

My NuVinci can easily be shifted when power is off on my TSDZ2- 15A/500W. Power on even in Eco mode I have to ease up on the pedals to shift it.

With my 52V battery charged to 55 volts, Turbo mode, and my max input on a 10% hill my power meter read a high of 14.5 amps and 760 Watts. It's a $15 power meter so accuracy is probably not precise - but could be.

I used X-60 connectors. Have the X-90 but they look like overkill compared to the size of the wiring on the motor. Even the X-60's look large.

I purchased it in April 1017. It's done everything I could wish for in it's first 1,500 miles.

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