New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by itchyfoot42 » Dec 24, 2017 9:34 pm

RTIII, LBS=Local Bike Shop. Thanks for the details on power levels. I was certain there had to be some Chinese "guesstimates" involved in the design of the electronics. I'm also sure there will be motor to motor variations as I would be surprised to find any precision electronic components, and a chain of +/- 20% components can make a wide bell curve.

The Steintrike is a hand-built fully suspended work of welding art. Even with lower cost Serbian labor my custom configuration is north of 5k, but true even a day in some ICU's could exceed the cost of my system.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Dec 24, 2017 10:36 pm

itchyfoot42 wrote:
Dec 24, 2017 9:34 pm
RTIII, LBS=Local Bike Shop. Thanks for the details on power levels. I was certain there had to be some Chinese "guesstimates" involved in the design of the electronics.
Sure, and thanks for the reminder about LBS - reminds me of the use of FLAPS in the automotive world: Friendly Local Auto Parts Store. :D

A friend and I were discussing this and I now get what Tongsheng was trying to say about "Turbo" mode: The lesser modes are most likely achieved by going square-wave on the power, basically reducing the "duty cycle", and Turbo mode (with full torque, such as when using the hand-throttle) probably just stops with the chopping and lets the full power run clean to the motor. So, you get whatever the battery's got to give you...
itchyfoot42 wrote:The Steintrike is a hand-built fully suspended work of welding art. Even with lower cost Serbian labor my custom configuration is north of 5k, but true even a day in some ICU's could exceed the cost of my system.
I don't know that one, but sounds great! Got a link to your bike?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by itchyfoot42 » Dec 25, 2017 8:36 pm

RTIII: Wild One (named Dragonfly) photos are on my photo website: www.mytripjournal.com/itchyfeet . Bought it for my wife, after she test rode one. Unfortunately, during the 6 months from order to receipt she lost the capability to get out of the low seat but can ride my old Rover after I added assist bars to help her stand to dismount.

The photos are before the addition of the TDSZ2. I hung the battery from the top bar of the seat with very heavy zip ties. I now have an Odyssey Van to transport the two trikes and Sally's Ridekick inside.

Numerous video's of a Wild One in action are at YouTube; search for Steintrike Wild One. Text and voice mostly German but the video is universal. It's really designed for off road use. For me it's a road trike with a 1950's Buick Roadmaster ride. With the benefit of assist my "I might need it" habit has resulted in a trike weight of 79# and a configuration that would suggest I should rename it "Warthog". I'll try to get a photo of the the latest configuration added to the web site in the next few days.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Dec 26, 2017 11:59 am

itchyfoot42 wrote:
Dec 25, 2017 8:36 pm
The photos are before the addition of the TDSZ2.
Thanks, Itchy, images of a TSDZ2 on such a bike will be a good visual addition to what we know of applications of the TSDZ2.

Since you speak of the Ivory Billed Woodpecker, I think I'm still the last known person with a sighting. It was during a canoe outing back in about 1973 or so when I was out in the Atchafalaya river basin in Louisiana with four Louisiana Wildlife & Fisheries agents and a few helpers like me, who were trying to collect data to help prosecute polluters in the area. I spotted it as we rounded a bend, and I called out to the group that there was a really big woodpecker near the top of a long-dead tree, but it soon flew off. Others saw it too, but in flight away from us, yet all agreed it was a huge animal, easily larger than the juvenile bald eagles hanging out in a near by cypress. I picked it out in the Peterson guide, and at first one of the agents scoffed, but when the others said that when you consider the size, distance to us, and so forth, that was the only specie that fit the bill! :wink: Nice to hear someone else remembers this venerable animal humans have likely brought to extinction.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Dec 27, 2017 5:07 pm

Does any body know what the correct tool for tightening the big nut on the end of the mounting tube through the bottom bracket is ?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Dec 27, 2017 6:03 pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Dec 27, 2017 5:07 pm
Does any body know what the correct tool for tightening the big nut on the end of the mounting tube through the bottom bracket is ?
Yes, of course; it's the one they sell you WITH every unit. I have two units, and two such tools.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Dec 28, 2017 9:04 am

I didn't receive such a socket I'm afraid, mine was quite an early unit and the later ones may have had it.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Marin » Dec 29, 2017 6:20 pm

475B21A4-86EB-4050-8A05-C19435DD564D.jpeg
This wrench comes with the kit, I have a few if you think you need one, your not too far away.
475B21A4-86EB-4050-8A05-C19435DD564D.jpeg (98.8 KiB) Viewed 1110 times
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Dec 30, 2017 7:07 am

What a shame, not using typical Shimano sizing like Bafang.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Dec 30, 2017 2:13 pm

Thanks for the offers guys, I've borrowed a friends unit to try and tighten the nut ( he had been away ) but finding that due to its shape it clashes with the rear suspension mount ( late Whyte 129 that's been converted to 27.5.+ tyres which is the dogs bo****** of XC bikes) and the motor itself in the other direction. I think I may need to turn a socket or bite the bullet and just use some big Stilsons.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by itchyfoot42 » Jan 06, 2018 8:37 pm

RTIII, I added photos of the Wild One with TDSZ2 installed at mytripjournal.com/itchyfeet. It's the Dec 26 entry. Been trying to get the site software to work correctly for a week. Finally just referenced some of the photos instead of embedding them in the text. The battery mount method, and the addition of mounts for accessories may work on other trikes and be useful for some.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Jan 07, 2018 2:13 pm

itchyfoot42 wrote:
Jan 06, 2018 8:37 pm
RTIII, I added photos of the Wild One with TDSZ2 installed at mytripjournal.com/itchyfeet. It's the Dec 26 entry. Been trying to get the site software to work correctly for a week. Finally just referenced some of the photos instead of embedding them in the text. The battery mount method, and the addition of mounts for accessories may work on other trikes and be useful for some.
Can't find that Dec 26th entry.... :(
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by itchyfoot42 » Jan 07, 2018 8:31 pm

tomjasz, on the first page go about 2/3 down the list to: Dragonfly the Wild One
On the next page it will be the second entry. You have to click on date. Not completely logical, but that's the way the site works.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Chalo » Jan 07, 2018 9:27 pm

tomjasz wrote:
Dec 30, 2017 7:07 am
What a shame, not using typical Shimano sizing like Bafang.
Lockring pliers care not what size!

Image

That's what I used to install the inside lockring on my BBS02.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Jan 08, 2018 11:56 am

Chalo wrote:
Jan 07, 2018 9:27 pm

Lockring pliers care not what size!

That's what I used to install the inside lockring on my BBS02.
EEK! Seriously? No bike tools at home? After many years, 50+, of working on VW air cooled, Modern Vespa, and now 5 bikes I remember swearing off pliers at least 49 1/2 years ago. Maybe it's my not so strong hands but I found pliers are a sure way to mess-up parts. Especially questionable steel. A nice Hozan lock ring wrench does a fine job for the inner ring.

The Shimano BB socket is perfect for the BBSxx Outer.
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Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Chalo » Jan 08, 2018 2:48 pm

The Hozan lockring pliers are at the bike shop. They're the best we've got for most kinds of lockrings. Least likely to slip or get damaged. You can tighten down more with them than with a spanner.

It's the teeth at the ends that fit into the lockring slots. I don't know why they have serrations. Opening stubborn beers maybe?
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Jan 08, 2018 3:24 pm

Has anyone experienced any slipping of the gears under sudden high load
I have the brass gear fitted for more than 1000km, total 2500km on the bike
Feels like chain slipping but I’m sure it’s internal.
Could it be that grease has worked its way into the clutch ?
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by irrelevant » Jan 08, 2018 4:02 pm

Hi all,
just finished installing TSDZ2 (coastal brake version) on my ancient bike. Bought it new in '92 - '93. Frame and front fork are only original parts remaining.

BB opened easily enough, was expecting a trip to local bikeshop for that, adjustment cup almost came off with the lockring. Had to sand down some welding seams from the inside until the TSDZ2 fitted through.

Water bottle battery didn't fit so nicely, eyelets are way too low for good installation. Currently using single screw and a host of zipties holding it in place upside down. Maybe I try those rivnuts from eBay and install the batteryholder on seatpost (open to suggestions if anybody has any).

Short 4km testdrive later and I'm quite happy with it, was worried about the change from 46 tooth chainring to 42 tooth one. Bike has Sachs 3 speed IGH

Couple of questions though:
- Can I leave the display (VLCD-5) outside when its below freezing?
- How does the factory grease handle cold temperatures? I really don't want to shred that nylon gear first thing in the morning

PS. Costs so far 739,37€, time spent on installation 12 hours. Still need to clean up the ghetto wiring and battery installation.
Last edited by irrelevant on Jan 09, 2018 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Speady » Jan 08, 2018 4:13 pm

jbalat wrote:
Jan 08, 2018 3:24 pm
Has anyone experienced any slipping of the gears under sudden high load
Yes, this is a known problem we already discussed on page 49.
Speady wrote:
Oct 01, 2017 6:14 pm
That's how the main gear looks like when suddenly the crankarms slip trough. :(

Image

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Chalo » Jan 08, 2018 4:15 pm

jbalat wrote:
Jan 08, 2018 3:24 pm
Feels like chain slipping but I’m sure it’s internal.
Don't be so sure. Gears don't really do that unless they're almost gone. Slipping and popping "out of gear" is usually the drive dogs misbehaving, not the gears. I don't think there are any dogs in the TSDZ2.

I have experienced more chain sprocket slippage on my BBS02 than ever before in my life, and it limits the sprocket sizes and styles I can use. For instance, I wanted to use single-speed type plate sprockets for the smaller sizes to improve wear and power handling. Of all the sizes I have, only the 20t fails to slip under heavy motor power.

Anyway, if it sounds like chain skipping, it probably is. Make sure your chain and sprockets are in good shape, not pitch elongated. And make sure the B-tension screw on your derailleur is adjusted to track the top pulley close to the cassette for maximum wrap on the sprockets.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jan 08, 2018 5:07 pm

Speady wrote:
Jan 08, 2018 4:13 pm
jbalat wrote:
Jan 08, 2018 3:24 pm
Has anyone experienced any slipping of the gears under sudden high load
Yes, this is a known problem we already discussed on page 49.
Speady wrote:
Oct 01, 2017 6:14 pm
That's how the main gear looks like when suddenly the crankarms slip trough. :(

Image
OOPS! NOPE! Speady got it a little wrong: It's covered on page 48 and again on 51! Try here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... g#p1323715

and here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... g#p1332814

Also note that the part in question is a "clutch bearing" (name given by the manufacturer) and its purpose is to ensure a load is only taken in one rotational direction and in the other it freewheels.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomjasz » Jan 08, 2018 6:34 pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 08, 2018 2:48 pm
Opening stubborn beers maybe?
HAHAHA!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Jan 09, 2018 2:16 am

Ok so you are saying that i have possibly broken the one way bearing ?
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Ilpo » Jan 09, 2018 5:58 am

irrelevant wrote:
Jan 08, 2018 4:02 pm
Hi all,
just finished installing TSDZ2 (coastal brake version) on my ancient bike.
I have not seen any test about TSDZ2 with coastal brake. Does coastal brake work as you expect?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by irrelevant » Jan 09, 2018 7:25 am

It seems to act normally, I usually stop pedaling and brake after a while. Haven't tested how it behaves in full panic-mode braking

PS. Now that I've driven it bit longer, there seems be a slight delay before the cranks stop freewheeling backwards and the brake can engage. The delay is about 10 to 15 degrees
Last edited by irrelevant on Jan 09, 2018 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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