New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
thowaa   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Jul 17 2016 9:45am
Location: Norway

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thowaa » Aug 21 2016 11:59pm

germany wrote:..., the motor case has a sticker under, it shows these specifications,
...
i know that version 350w work at 4000rpm and 250w work at 3600rpm.
The sticker on my 250W says 4000rpm.

As I have mentioned before, the info I have found at different dealers is very inconsistent.

karlla   10 µW

10 µW
Posts: 5
Joined: Aug 01 2016 11:29pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by karlla » Aug 22 2016 12:22am

germany wrote: Does anyone have problems with torque sensor? sometime on my bike this sensor is less sensitivity and the assintance doesn't work or it works with irregular shape

I've only been able to solve that disconnecting and connecting wire battery-motor,

what do you think? does the controller have a problem? Does anyone else have the same problem?
I heard that it can occur when you turn on power when you are riding. (irrespective of pedalling)

germany   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Oct 09 2015 8:19am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by germany » Aug 23 2016 9:29am

thowaa wrote: As I have mentioned before, the info I have found at different dealers is very inconsistent.
ok, maybe the difference is only that 350w motor controller admit more power, using more mosfets,

my version software is 3.4 also,


karlla wrote: I heard that it can occur when you turn on power when you are riding. (irrespective of pedalling)
very thankful, always i turn on the power with bike on stop

i'll talk with manufacturer, to know what happen

keithmac   10 W

10 W
Posts: 66
Joined: Jul 15 2016 12:56pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by keithmac » Aug 23 2016 1:22pm

If it calibrates the torque sensor at power-on then that would explain why it doesn't work if you turn it on while cycling, or if could deem wheel speed faulty (should be zero on power-on)..

germany   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Oct 09 2015 8:19am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by germany » Aug 23 2016 2:34pm

So grateful all

I finally think it is solve, I will try to explain what happened

When you turn on power, you should stop bike and crankset but it isn't enough, because my fault was that I put a foot or leg on one pedal, and this little pressure on pedal was enough to modify the first correct calibration tor. Sensor and as result it lose sensitive, and work bad,

To reset this calibration disconnect battery/motor's wires

If someone can check that happens the same in your motor, it would be perfect

PhaenTa   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: May 25 2016 5:31am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by PhaenTa » Aug 23 2016 2:49pm

I experienced something similar the other day. Motor assist was kinda pulsing when engaging. I believe I was moving slowly while I turned the system on when this happened. Motor behaved normally next time I turned it on. Didn't need to disconnect the battery.

PhaenTa   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: May 25 2016 5:31am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by PhaenTa » Aug 23 2016 3:41pm

thowaa wrote:@PhaenTa thanks for your info.
You have earlier said that you feel a difference when you increased the A setting.
Have you tried to lower it? Done any measurements?

My controller doesn't have the 'A' on the label.
The 'A' appears on controllers sold as spare parts.
Or maybe on all newer controllers?
I haven't tried to mess too much with settings. As they say, if it ain't broken, don't fix it :wink: I can add that selecting 8 or 16Ah doesn't provide a dramatic difference.

I'll try to measure the current draw when I get hold of an inline meter. I'll report my findings then.

Interesting theory about the "A" marking btw. My controller / housing is original though. And apparently older than yours.

MPM   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 37
Joined: Jun 21 2016 1:56pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by MPM » Aug 23 2016 10:28pm

Thanks for your information all.

On basis of the info here and elsewhere I also bought a TSDZ2, one with the newer smaller control unit. I like it so far but the motor now (after around 10km) rattles and doesn't assist anymore, seems to me to have the same issue as in PhaenTa's video. My set also came from PSWPower and I e-mailed the seller so I hope it all works out.

On the torque assist, it was a bit different than what I had expected it to be. I had assumed that if I increased my pedal torque the TSDZ2 would also increase its assist, with the 'multiplication factor' defined by the assist level. But after riding those initial 10 km I feel that as long as I provided some minimal level of torque, the motor would add assist at a constant level, with the level depending on the assist setting. It felt fine with me, just different because I expected 'proportional assist' if that makes sense. How do you all think it works?

BTW, I also had the problem with the torque calibration being incorrect, and starting at standstill without feet on the pedals solved it. Thanks for your help!

manneokoko   1 W

1 W
Posts: 56
Joined: Jul 28 2012 5:12pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manneokoko » Aug 24 2016 11:55am

Im very interested in this motor.
But how fast can it go? I read that there is a setting which maxes the speed to 45 kph, can that really be true for a 250W motor? Anybody can confirm the max speed. I need at least 35 kph.

thowaa   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Jul 17 2016 9:45am
Location: Norway

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thowaa » Aug 25 2016 12:59am

manneokoko wrote:But how fast can it go? I read that there is a setting which maxes the speed to 45 kph, can that really be true for a 250W motor? Anybody can confirm the max speed. I need at least 35 kph.
It is a speed limit which cuts off motor assist at the speed you set.
The setting range is 15-45 km/h.
You can turn the limit off by another setting.

The speed you can reach with your bike will depend on a lot more than just the motor. :)

thowaa   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Jul 17 2016 9:45am
Location: Norway

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thowaa » Aug 25 2016 1:04am

MPM wrote:On the torque assist, it was a bit different than what I had expected it to be. I had assumed that if I increased my pedal torque the TSDZ2 would also increase its assist, with the 'multiplication factor' defined by the assist level. But after riding those initial 10 km I feel that as long as I provided some minimal level of torque, the motor would add assist at a constant level, with the level depending on the assist setting. It felt fine with me, just different because I expected 'proportional assist' if that makes sense. How do you all think it works?
The torque sensor doesn't work like a throttle nor just as an on-off switch.
When you accelerate on flat road you will apply a force and get torque and motor assist,
but when just maintaining the speed less force is needed and you get less or no motor assist.
Going uphill you get a more constant torque and motor assist. This make sense. :)

But, it feels like the torque sensor has a limited working range.
I haven't investigated this much, but it seems like
if I already pedal a bit hard and start to pedal harder nothing happens,
even if the the motor is not working at max current for the chosen assist level.
I find this a bit weird.

For the assist levels on my 250W I have got the following peak (Ap) for
the different modes when pedaling instantly hard:
Eco 6.2 A
Tour 12.5 A
Speed 15.3 A
Turbo 15.3 A

More normal pedaling gives Ap at
Eco 4.9 A
Tour 9.9 A
Speed 15.1 A
Turbo 15.1 A

When turbo mode still feels more powerful it is because the torque sensor is more sensitive.

I think it would have been a nice feature to be able to adjust the sensitivity
according to individual strength and need for assistance.

thowaa   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Jul 17 2016 9:45am
Location: Norway

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thowaa » Aug 25 2016 4:17am

thowaa wrote:I haven't investigated this much, but it seems like
if I already pedal a bit hard and start to pedal harder nothing happens,
even if the the motor is not working at max current for the chosen assist level.
I find this a bit weird.
Will it make sense to reduce the motor assist
if you pedal very hard and the torque reach a certain level?
When you are able to apply a lot of human power you can save the battery.
I'm just thinking aloud... :)

manneokoko   1 W

1 W
Posts: 56
Joined: Jul 28 2012 5:12pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manneokoko » Aug 25 2016 4:30am

thowaa wrote: The speed you can reach with your bike will depend on a lot more than just the motor. :)
OK, I see. But what speed can I expect to get maximum when pedaling along rather strongly on the 350W version?
Is it possible to use throttle with this motor?

PhaenTa   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: May 25 2016 5:31am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by PhaenTa » Aug 25 2016 6:01am

Although there is a connection for throttle, I've been adviced not to use one since it will interfear with the torque sensor. This kit is ment for assisting.

Also, it's made for bigger bikes and one would hardly get up to 45km/h riding uphil so no need for a motor running past that speed.

And I don't see why it would be usefull with assist going level or downhill at those speeds either. Unless you're trying to keep up with traffic in a 60 zone of course.. :-) Or waste energy.

Other than that it doesn't prohibit you to pedal as fast as you wish / are capable of so no actual speed limit.

manneokoko   1 W

1 W
Posts: 56
Joined: Jul 28 2012 5:12pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manneokoko » Aug 25 2016 2:29pm

Thanks for the reply,
I really like the idea of torque sensor and being forced to pedal. But I also need the bike to be fast, to average in 35kph on the flats. Is that a reasonable average speed to have with this motor 350W version, when pedaling medium hard (I dont want to do a workout on the daily commute to work) ?

User avatar
Chalo   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7177
Joined: Apr 29 2009 11:29pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Chalo » Aug 25 2016 2:39pm

If you're of average weight, if your bike is efficient (no knobby tires or deep squishy suspension), if your riding position is at least somewhat low, and if you pedal with 100W effort or more, then 35kph on flat ground should be easy.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

PhaenTa   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: May 25 2016 5:31am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by PhaenTa » Aug 25 2016 2:46pm

I would also say that it depends alot on your topography (location).

If you live in a hilly country like me, then frequent pedaling is neccessary and I've had no trips yet without feeling like I had a mild workout afterwards. Steep hills still feel like hills only less..

In a flat country you should be able to move with little effort up to 45ish km/h.


manneokoko   1 W

1 W
Posts: 56
Joined: Jul 28 2012 5:12pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manneokoko » Aug 26 2016 6:56am

Anybody know approximately at what rpm this motor is peak efficient?

thowaa   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Jul 17 2016 9:45am
Location: Norway

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thowaa » Aug 27 2016 11:38am

I haven't seen any performance characteristics chart yet.
I actually expect the given 4000 rpm to be the most efficient, and not max rpm.
From what I have heard it should equal about 90 rpm at the crank axle,
which is quite fast pedaling.

thowaa   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Jul 17 2016 9:45am
Location: Norway

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thowaa » Aug 28 2016 11:10pm

I have got a brief look at a 350W with throttle.
It has a larger 8 pin connector between display and motor
and there is another number at the controller.
IMG_4823_sticker.jpg
IMG_4823_sticker.jpg (16.86 KiB) Viewed 4458 times
I have not tried it, and don't know much more.
I was told that the throttle just felt like an on-off switch.
When in use it disables the torque sensor.

manneokoko   1 W

1 W
Posts: 56
Joined: Jul 28 2012 5:12pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manneokoko » Aug 29 2016 10:57am

Anybody have tried the luxury display, XH18? looks like it has a throttle like selection of assistance level which I think would be very handy, no need to let go of the handles to change assist level.

PhaenTa   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: May 25 2016 5:31am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by PhaenTa » Aug 29 2016 2:03pm

thowaa wrote:I have got a brief look at a 350W with throttle.
It has a larger 8 pin connector between display and motor
and there is another number at the controller.
IMG_4823_sticker.jpg
I have not tried it, and don't know much more.
I was told that the throttle just felt like an on-off switch.
When in use it disables the torque sensor.
So that could indicate that I have a 250W version just like you. Or that there are several configurations of 350W version out there. Still kinda inconclusive.

Is that display any different other than the 8 pin connector?

thowaa   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Jul 17 2016 9:45am
Location: Norway

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thowaa » Aug 30 2016 1:49am

PhaenTa wrote:So that could indicate that I have a 250W version just like you. Or that there are several configurations of 350W version out there. Still kinda inconclusive.
No, the only thing that differs between the regular 250W and 350W versions is a software config.
The controller is the same.
If you measure max current at your 350W it will probably be 16 A.

I have been told that it is possible to get versions that allows changing of the A setting.
Max 18 A, but they don't recommend it because it can harm the motor.
I haven't got any further explanation, but it might be because of heat.
PhaenTa wrote:Is that display any different other than the 8 pin connector?
Same display, but I haven't seen it, just the motor.
Throttle support seems to be a special version.
Don't expect it to work with the regular versions that most of us have.

As I understand it...
All the inconsistent specification info found may very well all be correct.
This motor is manufactured in several different versions and qualities,
but there is no version number or other way for an end customer to identify the version.
This makes it hard to compare the motor here as there might be a lot of variations.
All the different rebrands also makes things confusing.

thowaa   10 W

10 W
Posts: 68
Joined: Jul 17 2016 9:45am
Location: Norway

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thowaa » Aug 30 2016 2:02am

manneokoko wrote:Anybody have tried the luxury display, XH18? looks like it has a throttle like selection of assistance level which I think would be very handy, no need to let go of the handles to change assist level.
The big chunky VLCD5 display comes with a button extention you can place next to the grip.

Image


My local dealer has the XH18 and I have had a look at it.
I like the smaller display, but I think I had prefered +/- buttons instead of the twist grip.
Other things to note is that it is not possible to detach the display
and it doesn't have a USB-port.

I think I would prefer something like the LCD6 display, but I don't think it works with the motor.
Doesn't have the i-button.

Image
Last edited by thowaa on Aug 30 2016 2:48am, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply