New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Blue Gear Change

Post by tomjasz » Sep 02 2017 10:42am

Triketech wrote:
Daytriker wrote:2 weeks & 2 attempts = no response from Tongsheng either. I was really hoping this would be a good alternative to geared hub motors but although my customer is happy with the replacement kit, I don't think I can recommend this set up.
Tongsheng may not respond for another week, the sent a number of key people (probably all 3...) to the Eurobike show.

I agree though. It really appeared to have significant potential for the trike market. I'll stick with hubmotors.
I did get a response from "NANCY" at the Euro bike show. She said she is very tired, sleeping only 4 hours each day. Supposedly when they get back they will send a new display. At this point I think it's nearly a dead project. It's not possible to support something this inconsistent. I keep saying it, but it's a shame. I really wanted an alternative to BBS02's.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Blue Gear Change

Post by eyebyesickle » Sep 02 2017 11:53am

tomjasz wrote:
Triketech wrote:
Daytriker wrote:2 weeks & 2 attempts = no response from Tongsheng either. I was really hoping this would be a good alternative to geared hub motors but although my customer is happy with the replacement kit, I don't think I can recommend this set up.
Tongsheng may not respond for another week, the sent a number of key people (probably all 3...) to the Eurobike show.

I agree though. It really appeared to have significant potential for the trike market. I'll stick with hubmotors.
I did get a response from "NANCY" at the Euro bike show. She said she is very tired, sleeping only 4 hours each day. Supposedly when they get back they will send a new display. At this point I think it's nearly a dead project. It's not possible to support something this inconsistent. I keep saying it, but it's a shame. I really wanted an alternative to BBS02's.
Don't get discouraged... there is a compatibility problem with the new speed sensors and the displays etc... I think they need the 3.7, not 3.6 as TS was sending out.

It takes a while to sort this stuff out on the front end. 1 unit in is not bad for the prep...

Let me ask, what exactly is the problem with the unit now? Were you able to get into the menu and fix the settings?

RTIII   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Sep 03 2017 2:14pm

Yesterday was the first true "excursion day" where I felt up to it and the new San Rafael with 18A "750w" TSDZ2 was up to it and I went on a real cruise!

Image

But, the day didn't end well - ended up NOT being able to make this gap:

Image

Whole story here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 6#p1317076

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Blue Gear Change

Post by tomjasz » Sep 04 2017 12:59am

eyebyesickle wrote: Don't get discouraged... there is a compatibility problem with the new speed sensors and the displays etc... I think they need the 3.7, not 3.6 as TS was sending out.

It takes a while to sort this stuff out on the front end. 1 unit in is not bad for the prep...

Let me ask, what exactly is the problem with the unit now? Were you able to get into the menu and fix the settings?
Display does not power off automatically, manually, or enter setup. first controller and display was wrong...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mingonn » Sep 08 2017 9:47am

Metal replacement gear arrived during the week and I installed it tonight. Just put a light smear of ordinary bearing grease on it, no plastic to worry about any more. To remove the blue gear I just tapped the shaft with a flat punch whilst holding the blue gear, came apart easily enough, made a little video in case anyone is going to do it.

https://youtu.be/hTGtVWAIFSA

Noise wise I can't say its any louder than the blue gear but I haven't ridden it for two weeks so can't be 100% sure. Either way its not a deal breaker, it wasn't exactly silent to start with.

Credit to PSPower who were happy to replace it under warranty without hassle, I paid extra to get it DHL delivered and had it within a week.

I will be servicing it every 1000km from now on, I found some water had got into the plastic main gear housing (the one under the chainring) and there was some rust on the drive gear. Lots of seals everywhere so I might have been a bit too enthusiastic with the hose, will be sticking to a damp cloth and brush around the motor from now on.
20" folder with an ebay 200w 36v Direct Drive front hub, 48V 4ah Ping V2, (200w - 5.8 amp max controller limited)

Daytriker   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Daytriker » Sep 08 2017 10:01am

Thanks for the video mingonn, that sure is a lot easier than the instructions from Tongsheng. Can you let us know what the cost was for the Brass Gear? I have ordered some replacements from China & if I can get them closer to home it might save me 2 or 3 weeks & possibly shipping cost. Also, please let us know your riding impressions with the new gear. Thanks

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mingonn » Sep 10 2017 9:03am

Daytriker wrote:Thanks for the video mingonn, that sure is a lot easier than the instructions from Tongsheng. Can you let us know what the cost was for the Brass Gear? I have ordered some replacements from China & if I can get them closer to home it might save me 2 or 3 weeks & possibly shipping cost. Also, please let us know your riding impressions with the new gear. Thanks
PSPower.com covered the metal gear under warranty, just paid $20 for DHL to Australia. They were going to cover postage as well but it would take a few weeks. Gave it a solid work out over the weekend, stair climbs and descents, rock gardens, jumps and some challenging climbs thrown in all on level 4. Feels more precise and responsive than the plastic gear and slightly quieter too which was a surprise.

No stripping anxiety and more, woohoo
20" folder with an ebay 200w 36v Direct Drive front hub, 48V 4ah Ping V2, (200w - 5.8 amp max controller limited)

atomohodez   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by atomohodez » Sep 10 2017 12:50pm

Hello! I wonder if this motor 48v 15A will work with a battery lifepo4 16S 51,2v nominal 57,6 max.?

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Marin   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Marin » Sep 10 2017 1:01pm

atomohodez wrote:Hello! I wonder if this motor 48v 15A will work with a battery lifepo4 16S 51,2v nominal 57,6 max.?

I am using a 14S (58.8v fully charged) Li-on battery for testing, but I can only charge it to 54v to work with the TSDZ2 motor I have,
Marin ex-rental hybrid with 48v bionx...sold
Specialized hardrock with magic pie 4-5
Lunacycle with l/r mid drive coming soon
Kona Caldera with QS 30H (maybe), and phase runner
Giant Yukon bbs02
Kona Abra Cadabra bbshd
Wildfire fat bike bbshd

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teslanv   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by teslanv » Sep 10 2017 10:26pm

Installation on my Kona Leroi went pretty well.
It's a fun ride, and light. Pulled 16.6A out of my 15A rated motor. 800W peak seems adequate for where I will be riding this.

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Sep 10 2017 10:45pm

teslanv wrote:Installation on my Kona Leroi went pretty well.
It's a fun ride, and light. Pulled 16.6A out of my 15A rated motor. 800W peak seems adequate for where I will be riding this.

pretty good, the 15a are rated at 13a +\- 1.... have to really bear down pealing to crank that out? 42t stock?

RTIII   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Sep 11 2017 1:20am

Marin wrote:
atomohodez wrote:Hello! I wonder if this motor 48v 15A will work with a battery lifepo4 16S 51,2v nominal 57,6 max.?
I am using a 14S (58.8v fully charged) Li-on battery for testing, but I can only charge it to 54v to work with the TSDZ2 motor I have,
...Then you don't appear to have a 48v rated unit... Both of my "48v" TSDZ2s work fine at a battery voltage of 54.5, and a little more, though I haven't explored just how high. If you read through the back pages of this thread, people talk about the lower-rated units having a peak voltage at right about what you (Marin) report.

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Sep 11 2017 4:35am

54.6 v works fine, 54.7V and the display will work but not the motor on my 2017 48V unit.

atomohodez   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by atomohodez » Sep 11 2017 8:42am

I will order a battery lifepo4 15S, 48v nominal, 54v max!

jastill   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor" 48V , 500W "new

Post by jastill » Sep 12 2017 12:24pm

A lot of bits and pieces on the tsdz2 in many places - couldn't find answer to: (clarify -- 48V , 500W "newer" model, B)

- is the max cadence that the motor will assist the ~78 rpm? And is there a way to change that upper limit? I may have read that this ramps down to 0% assist between perhaps 78 and 100?

- I think there's been a video posting that you can remove the top limit speed via the LCD controller menus -- correct? (it was in italian)

- is there a feeling if the efficiency for this is really significantly lower compared to the BBS02? (percentage of electrical watts in that gets converted into mechanical watts out)

- are we seeing high mileage customers? I think BBS02s are having no issues normally for at least 10,000 miles.


Thanks for help.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by gggplaya » Sep 12 2017 12:50pm

Is there an official U.S. Distributor for these drives?? I want to get one.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor" 48V , 500W "new

Post by RTIII » Sep 12 2017 1:18pm

jastill wrote:A lot of bits and pieces on the tsdz2 in many places - couldn't find answer to: (clarify -- 48V , 500W "newer" model, B)
This thread on this site is the only comprehensive place I've ever found on the web. And, all the answers to your questions are already somewhere in this thread... When I first found this thread it was just over a year old with 16 pages and around 300 comments, as I recall, and I read every comment. Since then, it has exploded! While reading it all may be impractical for many today, you can search just this thread by using the search tools on ES.
jastill wrote:- is the max cadence that the motor will assist the ~78 rpm? And is there a way to change that upper limit? I may have read that this ramps down to 0% assist between perhaps 78 and 100?
Nobody has ever suggested at "cadence" of that number that I can recall. Instead, the motor has a maximum RPM of 4000. Due to its own internal reduction gearing this works out to about 90 pedal-RPM. When the motor is beyond its RPM, you simply don't get any assistance, but you CAN pedal it faster, if you are able.

The TSDZ2 doesn't do "cadence" like the Bafang models.

There is a speed limit that has nothing to do with cadence. I have two units and I have turned it off on both of them without trouble, but I do not know if this is possible on all units since some countries have maximum speed limits and I think that's why it has the speed limit feature. So MAYBE depending on where you live, you can't un-set it, I don't know, but you CAN lie to it about tire diameter, number of magnets used on the sensor, or just disconnect the speed sensor.
jastill wrote:- I think there's been a video posting that you can remove the top limit speed via the LCD controller menus -- correct? (it was in italian)
Maybe, IDK, I don't watch videos often.
jastill wrote:- is there a feeling if the efficiency for this is really significantly lower compared to the BBS02? (percentage of electrical watts in that gets converted into mechanical watts out)
Anyone who suggest that is either an idiot or a propagandist for the BBS series. Owner reports found in this thread ALL say the TSDZ2 is VASTLY more efficient, and they back it up with numbers. ... I've never owned a BBS unit, so can't say myself. What I can say is that my 12.something Ah battery is good to around 100 miles, including hills, lots of stopping and starting and lots of high-speed. ...I once did 22 miles up (and down) some of the steepest hills in the San Francisco Bay Area and only used about 25% of the pack. My interpretation of driver reports is that the BSS02 series can't touch that kind of performance.
jastill wrote:- are we seeing high mileage customers? I think BBS02s are having no issues normally for at least 10,000 miles.
The TSDZ2 isn't that old yet, but there are reports in this thread of people having over 3000 miles, as I recall.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Sep 12 2017 1:21pm

gggplaya wrote:Is there an official U.S. Distributor for these drives?? I want to get one.
There are lots of distributors in the USA, but VERY few are reselling just the kits. Most build out complete bikes for people.

There's one guy who posts here a lot who sells kits you can't get anywhere else (non-standard kits), but he mostly drop-ships from China, I think, with few shipments coming from the USA. His name is eyebisickle, (sp?), I call him just "eye", and you can find his posts here in this thread, where he has a link to his site... He also sells on e-bay I think, as well as a private site, but I don't have the link handy.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by squee22 » Sep 12 2017 7:14pm

gggplaya wrote:Is there an official U.S. Distributor for these drives?? I want to get one.
They are manufactured in china so I'd just buy from a chinese distributer. I went with PSWpower on aliexpress and had no issues. Also their battery packs are as advertised. I paid extra for panasonic cells, and when I cracked open the pack they were indeed panasonic cells.

No complaints. Shipping is slow - but that's cause it's china.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Sep 12 2017 7:23pm

squee22 wrote:
gggplaya wrote:Is there an official U.S. Distributor for these drives?? I want to get one.
They are manufactured in china so I'd just buy from a chinese distributer. I went with PSWpower on aliexpress and had no issues. Also their battery packs are as advertised. I paid extra for panasonic cells, and when I cracked open the pack they were indeed panasonic cells.

No complaints. Shipping is slow - but that's cause it's china.
...I do NOT want to be misunderstood as saying anything against PSWpower, just trying to inform: Whatever the label is on the battery cell is, unfortunately, not necessarily what the cell actually is because the 18650 cell is the most fraudulent copied cell in history and it's pretty trivial to copy the outer sleeve of the cell where manufacturing identification is traditionally done. That is to say; just because it appears to be from a particular vendor means, unfortunately, nothing by itself. The question is; what is the behavior over time? Do the cells BEHAVE as they should?

I wish this were not so, but it's the world we live in. Cheap knock-off copies are pennies on the dollar to the real ones and typically work well for a while. But, do they really give you the amps when you need them? Do they actually have the storage capacity claimed? Do they charge up properly? Do they survive discharging over the longer term properly? ...These are the features that one is paying for with a name-brand cell, and also unfortunately, to really find out also damages even the real cells since deeply discharging a cell shortens its life...

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by lcyn » Sep 12 2017 8:53pm

I went with this distributer. Very fast shipping, less than one week. Ordered on a Thursday and received the kit the next Tuesday.
http://recycles-ebike.com

The full kit comes from China, the battery from USA.

The 36v 350 w kit is on sale. 500.00 for the full kit with a 36v battery with free shipping.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by gggplaya » Sep 12 2017 10:34pm

lcyn wrote:I went with this distributer. Very fast shipping, less than one week. Ordered on a Thursday and received the kit the next Tuesday.
http://recycles-ebike.com

The full kit comes from China, the battery from USA.

The 36v 350 w kit is on sale. 500.00 for the full kit with a 36v battery with free shipping.
Any functional differences in displays?? I kind of wanted the smaller grip display to keep the cockpit cleaner and reduce the amount of wires around the bike. I also don't want the Y cable because I have no interest in the front and rear lights, that just adds more unnecessary cables running around the bike.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by lcyn » Sep 12 2017 11:20pm

I am not sure. I have the vlcd5 display. It has one wire running to the display. The other wires would be optional. There are there ports on the display, one for the throttle and 2 for the brakes if you choose to use them. I did not elect to install the brakes, but did attach the throttle. It is a very clean setup compared to hub kits I have installed on other bikes.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Sep 13 2017 9:51am

gggplaya wrote:Any functional differences in displays?? I kind of wanted the smaller grip display to keep the cockpit cleaner and reduce the amount of wires around the bike.
Yes, the VLCD-5 is the more functional of the two, and its' removable from its base.

If you want throttle (and, optionally, hand-brake cut out switches) then you have to get the VLCD-5 because it is where the throttle wiring goes. BUT, as I learned personally the hard way, just because you have a VLCD-5 with the wiring ports for throttle (and hand brake cut-outs) does NOT mean your unit will accept a throttle; you have to order it with throttle to get the throttle! No Retro-Fitting A Throttle!. (Yes, stupid, I know, but that's how it is.)
gggplaya wrote:I also don't want the Y cable because I have no interest in the front and rear lights, that just adds more unnecessary cables running around the bike.
Then don't order one!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by squee22 » Sep 13 2017 3:35pm

RTIII wrote:
squee22 wrote:
gggplaya wrote:Is there an official U.S. Distributor for these drives?? I want to get one.
They are manufactured in china so I'd just buy from a chinese distributer. I went with PSWpower on aliexpress and had no issues. Also their battery packs are as advertised. I paid extra for panasonic cells, and when I cracked open the pack they were indeed panasonic cells.

No complaints. Shipping is slow - but that's cause it's china.
...I do NOT want to be misunderstood as saying anything against PSWpower, just trying to inform: Whatever the label is on the battery cell is, unfortunately, not necessarily what the cell actually is because the 18650 cell is the most fraudulent copied cell in history and it's pretty trivial to copy the outer sleeve of the cell where manufacturing identification is traditionally done. That is to say; just because it appears to be from a particular vendor means, unfortunately, nothing by itself. The question is; what is the behavior over time? Do the cells BEHAVE as they should?

I wish this were not so, but it's the world we live in. Cheap knock-off copies are pennies on the dollar to the real ones and typically work well for a while. But, do they really give you the amps when you need them? Do they actually have the storage capacity claimed? Do they charge up properly? Do they survive discharging over the longer term properly? ...These are the features that one is paying for with a name-brand cell, and also unfortunately, to really find out also damages even the real cells since deeply discharging a cell shortens its life...
It's also pretty easy to spot a fake. Yes it's easy to fake but most fakes are not very sophisticated and have pretty obvious qualities about them that scream, "fake"

the price difference of the panasonic and non panasonic cells was not terribly huge, and the time it would take faking this many cells for such a small increase on the return, wouldn't have made it worth it to fake the cells. Cutting back and putting on new shrink wrap printed with the false info is time consuming waste for a con man, especially when it all will get shrink wrapped into a pack and sealed in a case. If they were faking they likely would have simply put the cheap cells in the battery knowing 99% of customers will never crack open the case, and refunded anyone that caught them.

I am not going to engage in destructive testing to prove a point. I'm 99% sure the battery cells were as advertised and am pleased with my purchase.

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