New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2661
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 08 2018 4:45am

jbalat wrote:
Sep 07 2018 5:16pm
Hi Casainho, this is the feature I’ve been waiting for (besides walk mode)
Firstly for my 6 pin controller do you have a better picture which can help me find the throttle wires. Or will it be obvious ?
No I don't have that but I remember that was shared on this forum message -- try search for throttle wiring keywords.
jbalat wrote:
Sep 07 2018 5:16pm
Secondly I assume we can switch between temperature and % watt hours used, if so can you also display the degC icon so we know which mode we are in.
Good idea, I will.
jbalat wrote:
Sep 07 2018 5:16pm
Third have you been able to verify that 27deg and 85deg with a normal temperature gauge so that we know the scaling is accurate ?
No, I hope others as you can help on validating that -- I am focus on further development. But I do strong trust on that measures, even because LM35 output is very linear, I do not expect any surprises.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

User avatar
jbalat   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 522
Joined: Nov 10 2012 11:50pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Sep 08 2018 6:35am

Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=150

maximusdm   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 36
Joined: Sep 08 2018 12:51pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by maximusdm » Sep 08 2018 1:04pm

Hi Guys,

I got TSDZ2 750w 48v with vlcd5. All was excellent until 150 km.
Now at low speed (smaller than 10km/h), I get 99km/h speed error and the engine disconnects. The engine gets connected back when hitting 10km/h+ and all is good. This very bad because I can no longer climb hard slopes.
I do not undestand why this happens.

Please help.

User avatar
eyebyesickle   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 593
Joined: Apr 07 2015 9:28pm
Location: Nashville

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Sep 08 2018 2:02pm

maximusdm wrote:
Sep 08 2018 1:04pm
Hi Guys,

I got TSDZ2 750w 48v with vlcd5. All was excellent until 150 km.
Now at low speed (smaller than 10km/h), I get 99km/h speed error and the engine disconnects. The engine gets connected back when hitting 10km/h+ and all is good. This very bad because I can no longer climb hard slopes.
I do not undestand why this happens.

Please help.
Hi,

I'm fairly certain this is a speed sensor / magnet issue. It's a touch too close which will scramble the reading. Once it's spinning fast, it goes back to normal since the contact between the sensor and the magnet is happening faster.

Try making the distance greater where spoke magnet passes the speed sensor, that should fix it.

I personally like to start farther away where I get no reading, then move it slightly closer just until I get a stable reading.

Let me know how that works.

Thanks.
www.eco-ebike.com - USA Stock + Support
www.recycles-ebike.com - Manufacturer/Direct w/ USA Support

bart1006   10 W

10 W
Posts: 76
Joined: Sep 24 2012 11:10am
Location: Zwolle

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bart1006 » Sep 09 2018 4:29am

eyebyesickle wrote:
Sep 08 2018 2:02pm
maximusdm wrote:
Sep 08 2018 1:04pm
Hi Guys,

I got TSDZ2 750w 48v with vlcd5. All was excellent until 150 km.
Now at low speed (smaller than 10km/h), I get 99km/h speed error and the engine disconnects. The engine gets connected back when hitting 10km/h+ and all is good. This very bad because I can no longer climb hard slopes.
I do not undestand why this happens.

Please help.
Hi,

I'm fairly certain this is a speed sensor / magnet issue. It's a touch too close which will scramble the reading. Once it's spinning fast, it goes back to normal since the contact between the sensor and the magnet is happening faster.

Try making the distance greater where spoke magnet passes the speed sensor, that should fix it.

I personally like to start farther away where I get no reading, then move it slightly closer just until I get a stable reading.

Let me know how that works.

Thanks.
I had the same issue for me it was the speedsensor just like eyebyesickle pointed out.
In my case the magnet was also too close to the sensor.

maximusdm   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 36
Joined: Sep 08 2018 12:51pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by maximusdm » Sep 09 2018 7:47am

Hi eyebyesickle, bart!

The problem was that the magnet was too close to the speed sensor. Exactly like you said! You need at least a 3-4 mm.
I read a lot of this thread before deciding between Bafang and Tongsheng. I think I made the right decision. This engine has a very nice normal bike feeling.
@eyebyesickle You have provided huge support for this product on this thread. Respect! It would have been a nightmare to send it back to China for nothing!

Thank you!

Davescustom   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 17
Joined: Apr 03 2015 4:18pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Davescustom » Sep 09 2018 7:50am

casainho wrote:
Sep 07 2018 11:23am
spiked wrote:
Sep 07 2018 10:35am
Is this high temperature something we need to worry about?
Sure it is!! I hope you did read the wiki link I post that says:

The Curie temperature of high-grade Neodymium (with added terbium and dysprosium) is 320C / 600F. However, common neo magnets are made from the cheapest grade, and can start to lose some of their magnetism at around 80C (170F).

E-bike motor magnets are a grade that is slightly higher than the cheapest variety, because they are often subjected to higher temps than they should be by unsuspecting customers. Years of posted experiments by real E-bikers on endless-sphere have produced a commonly held rule-of-thumb to avoid heating your E-bike motor to above 95C (200F).

In: https://www.electricbike.com/motor-tech ... rms-part-1

spiked wrote:
Sep 07 2018 10:35am
Did you drive the motor really hard to get it this hot, or was this just a routine ride? What battery was used?
I did not ride hard and was a routine ride, I was at max of 500W (about 10 amps) at some peaks. As you can see on LCD, I used 61 Watts/hour is 15 minutes so at power average of 61 *4 = 244 watts (half of that max of 50W).

At 85 degrees of the motor, outside I could touch with my hand and see it was very hot but clearly I already did touch my motor from the outside more hot than that. It is easy, the same ride I did of 15 minutes, I usually do the same type of ride but for about 60 minutes - 4 times more!!

But I hope other users can replicate my experience and so we can get more data and validate all this.
Casainho: Hands down for your work! all free work it's amazing nowadays.. some other people simply would sell instead of sharing.

Today I was with the mouse pointer on the "ORDER NOW" but this made me re-think about the TSDZ2.

I have one bike with a BBS02 36v 500w (my introduction to the Ebike world), I made recently a custom bike with a BBSHD at 58.8v (it's not stealth and it's wayyy to heavy to decently pedal). I bought also a city bike with a Bosch motor, bought it second hand without charger and a broken "clunch" on the Nuvinci 360. I'm waiting the parts to arrive to test it.

I bought last month 1 Specialized Enduro Comp 2010 that I love to pedal... and want to do something midway between the city bike and the monster BBSHD that is in some cases dangerous to drive in the city.

I've not finish reading the 137 pages, but I have some questions in my head..

- 36v or 48v? the 36v have the advantage of smaller battery but... pushing it on step hills.. overheat? It seems the 48v winding can support a little bit more watts.. (I think..) but 1/3 bigger battery.
- I was thinking in the overheat problem and came with one idea.. what about using thermal heatsink pads (or Gel) between the motor and the cover? So the cover helps to dissipate the heat. The other idea was to make a cover with small fins.. for those who can solder aluminium (not me).

Casainho, I read your wiki and I think i would be great if you put the parts list that you have to buy to perform the flash (St-link, Speed sensor cable, Connectors etc..)

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2661
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 09 2018 7:55am

Davescustom wrote:
Sep 09 2018 7:50am
Casainho, I read your wiki and I think i would be great if you put the parts list that you have to buy to perform the flash (St-link, Speed sensor cable, Connectors etc..)
Thanks for the feedback. Please feel free to help, like writing on wiki page or trying your ideas and share knowledge.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

hobbyvac   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Jan 23 2018 7:39pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hobbyvac » Sep 09 2018 9:02pm

Regarding the overheating issues. My other Hobby is flying R/C electric planes. Its very common for builders to inadvertently over prop and exceed the limits of their motors or batteries. Electric motors will just produce as much as you ask for without any signs of stress. Unlike a gasoline engine that gives tactile or audible cues when its straining, an electric motor will silently destroy itself without complaint. If you don't monitor the current and voltage you have no idea you are abusing it. In our case, the motor is buried and by the time you feel enough heat to be concerned, its probably been damaged internally.

The average rider who doesn't have a lot of mechanical sympathy can easily overload the system by simply forgetting to downshift when slowing. I like to let people try my bike but they all make a fast lap around the parking lot, stop to tell me how fun it is, then proceed to take off in too high of a high gear. Even people who understand this, often fall victim to their own addiction to power. Before long they are over volting and raising the amp limit. Its what we humans do....

I simple red light on the bars would be helpful to alert us to an overload condition.

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2661
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 10 2018 7:41am

I developed the new feature "motor temperature protection" and did the firmware release V0.10 that includes this new feature.

It works as expected and I am using min and max temperature values of 75 and 85 degrees Celsius.

I also started to improve the wiki page with the description of each feature and configurations, here is the "motor temperature protection" -- see more here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... -firmwares

Image
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

vscope   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 39
Joined: Jun 19 2018 5:42am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by vscope » Sep 10 2018 10:13am

casainho wrote:
Sep 10 2018 7:41am
I developed the new feature "motor temperature protection" and did the firmware release V0.10 that includes this new feature.
is the inside motor temp much higher than the outer case temp?
cause my motor is quite cool on the outside. max 45 degrees even going with 40kmh plus.
maybe because i am not going uphill but only straight so always good airflow around the case.

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2661
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 10 2018 10:16am

vscope wrote:
Sep 10 2018 10:13am
casainho wrote:
Sep 10 2018 7:41am
I developed the new feature "motor temperature protection" and did the firmware release V0.10 that includes this new feature.
is the inside motor temp much higher than the outer case temp?
Yes it is!!
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Sark89   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Sep 10 2018 6:10pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Sark89 » Sep 10 2018 6:24pm

Regards. I’m thinking about get a tsdz2 ebike kit for my old mtb, but I havs a critical doubt:

Can anywhere sure me if this motor is waterproof. It is important for me, as I use the bike for goin to work and, although my area is not very wet, there is heavy rain ocasionally. Also, I would like if this type of battery is waterproof too: http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-2v-sy7p

I hope that you can help me, as it is the forum with more information about this motor that I have finded.

Pd: By the way, I’m new in this forum so nice to meet you.

User avatar
jbalat   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 522
Joined: Nov 10 2012 11:50pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Sep 10 2018 11:39pm

Sark89 wrote:
Sep 10 2018 6:24pm
Regards. I’m thinking about get a tsdz2 ebike kit for my old mtb, but I havs a critical doubt:

Can anywhere sure me if this motor is waterproof. It is important for me, as I use the bike for goin to work and, although my area is not very wet, there is heavy rain ocasionally. Also, I would like if this type of battery is waterproof too: http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-2v-sy7p

I hope that you can help me, as it is the forum with more information about this motor that I have finded.

Pd: By the way, I’m new in this forum so nice to meet you.
I ride work every day rain or shine, I have even taken the motor through water and mud holes offroad and never had any issues. Saying that my friend has the same motor and did find a little bit of water in his after a muddy offroad ride.
I think just some regular maintenance and you should be right.
The only issue I have had with water was on a heavy rain water got into the old VLCD5 display. I let it dry off for a couple of days and it was fine.
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=150

Rydon   10 W

10 W
Posts: 86
Joined: Aug 11 2016 5:26pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Sep 11 2018 1:31am

I just successfully wired and flashed an LCD3 display and a 48v TSDZ2 motor with the Flexible Opensource Firmware. Following the wiki and Jbalat's videos, it was fairly straightforward. It helped to be warned about the STM8S105x6 instead of STM8S105x4 in the STLink configuration, right-clicking the raw button to download the hex files, and paying attention to rx and tx wiring.

After watching a few videos from Casainho and Jbalat I was expecting the LCD3 to be difficult to use and setup. I was totally wrong on that front. It is very intuitive to use and easy to configure. Just make sure you have the instructions from the wiki and it is easy to navigate the menus and set up.

Thanks, Casainho, Jbalat, et al!!! I will install it on a bike tomorrow and then if all goes well I will flash a coaster brake TSDZ2 for a handcycle later this week.

Sark89   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Sep 10 2018 6:10pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Sark89 » Sep 11 2018 6:05am

jbalat wrote:
Sep 10 2018 11:39pm
Sark89 wrote:
Sep 10 2018 6:24pm
Regards. I’m thinking about get a tsdz2 ebike kit for my old mtb, but I havs a critical doubt:

Can anywhere sure me if this motor is waterproof. It is important for me, as I use the bike for goin to work and, although my area is not very wet, there is heavy rain ocasionally. Also, I would like if this type of battery is waterproof too: http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-2v-sy7p

I hope that you can help me, as it is the forum with more information about this motor that I have finded.

Pd: By the way, I’m new in this forum so nice to meet you.
I ride work every day rain or shine, I have even taken the motor through water and mud holes offroad and never had any issues. Saying that my friend has the same motor and did find a little bit of water in his after a muddy offroad ride.
I think just some regular maintenance and you should be right.
The only issue I have had with water was on a heavy rain water got into the old VLCD5 display. I let it dry off for a couple of days and it was fine.
Thanks for the info. I suppose that you have a cup-holder battery too, I’m right?

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2661
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 12 2018 4:20am

Rydon wrote:
Sep 11 2018 1:31am
I will install it on a bike tomorrow and then if all goes well I will flash a coaster brake TSDZ2 for a handcycle later this week.
Hmmm... I am not sure it will work well for TSDZ2 coaster brake.... please share your experience later!! Also some pictures if possible.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Rydon   10 W

10 W
Posts: 86
Joined: Aug 11 2016 5:26pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Sep 12 2018 5:05am

casainho wrote:
Sep 12 2018 4:20am
Rydon wrote:
Sep 11 2018 1:31am
I will install it on a bike tomorrow and then if all goes well I will flash a coaster brake TSDZ2 for a handcycle later this week.
Hmmm... I am not sure it will work well for TSDZ2 coaster brake.... please share your experience later!! Also some pictures if possible.
just curious ... what are your concerns with it working on coaster brake? The main thing is the motor needs to stop instantly when you stop pedaling as the coaster brake motor does not freewheel at the cranks. This is also why throttle and walk assist are disabled on coaster brake motors.

User avatar
jbalat   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 522
Joined: Nov 10 2012 11:50pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Sep 12 2018 7:05am

Sark89 wrote:
Sep 11 2018 6:05am
Thanks for the info. I suppose that you have a cup-holder battery too, I’m right?
No I think the standard types look ugly so I 3D printed my own battery case. Hopefully it is weather proof. It has a drain hole at the bottom just in case.
Attachments
ED82A97A-2849-4BCE-9E9C-91E6A6F9242B.jpeg
3F081E05-9C2E-4ED5-84F9-28E22B0B1680.jpeg
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=150

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2661
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 12 2018 7:30am

About the motor temperature

Now that I installed the temperature sensor and the firmware reduces automatically the motor power at over temperature, I am using the TSDZ2 at max power using the 18 amps. It works very well for my short rides of 15/20 minutes (~6kms) and after that it starts to reduce the power -- that is good to me because on that city short rides I want to be fast and for long rides I usually want to save battery power so I reduce anyway the power to the motor.

I configured the temperature limits to 75 -> 85 degrees (starts to reduce motor power at 75 and totally cuts at 85). Maybe I can go higher like 85 -> 95 degrees but currently I am not much interested to risk my motor.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

EndlessCadence   100 W

100 W
Posts: 217
Joined: Aug 22 2018 4:31am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by EndlessCadence » Sep 12 2018 9:01am

casainho wrote:
Sep 12 2018 7:30am
About the motor temperature

Now that I installed the temperature sensor and the firmware reduces automatically the motor power at over temperature, I am using the TSDZ2 at max power using the 18 amps.
....
Interesting feature! Are you running 36V or 48V?

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2661
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 12 2018 9:13am

EndlessCadence wrote:
Sep 12 2018 9:01am
casainho wrote:
Sep 12 2018 7:30am
About the motor temperature

Now that I installed the temperature sensor and the firmware reduces automatically the motor power at over temperature, I am using the TSDZ2 at max power using the 18 amps.
....
Interesting feature! Are you running 36V or 48V?
48V and soon I will switch to 52V.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

cascarabias   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 12
Joined: Sep 12 2018 3:42pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by cascarabias » Sep 12 2018 4:16pm

Hello everyone, I have been following the work of casahino and jbalat for some time and I find it impressive!

I have the 48v tsdz2 and I have bought the kt-lcd3 and the stlink / v2, I've seen the 4 videos to flash the software and it's simple for me.
But what I can not get is to download the sofware stlink V2 for windows in st.com , I can not download the firmware hex file for tsdz2.... hex!!
I need your help, it sure is very easy but it is becoming a headache for me!
Sorry for my english traslation!
Best regards

EndlessCadence   100 W

100 W
Posts: 217
Joined: Aug 22 2018 4:31am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by EndlessCadence » Sep 12 2018 5:19pm

cascarabias wrote:
Sep 12 2018 4:16pm
But what I can not get is to download the sofware stlink V2 for windows in st.com , I can not download the firmware hex file for tsdz2.... hex!!
You can find ST Visual Programmer here: https://www.st.com/en/development-tools/stvp-stm32.html
Look for the section "Get software" on the bottom of the website.

cascarabias   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 12
Joined: Sep 12 2018 3:42pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by cascarabias » Sep 13 2018 8:46am

Thank you very much for your answer, but it is impossible to download STlink from the web, I downloaded it from "www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-inst ... romscratch", I have run the program but it gives me the error "Error: Can not communicate with the tool.
Wrong tool selection or check tool power supply or check that a previous session is closed.
Error: <PROGRAM MEMORY programming failed.
Error: <Operation aborted "
I checked the connections and I think they are correct. some idea for a solution.
Best regards

Post Reply