New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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wheelyphased   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wheelyphased » Sep 21 2018 1:52am

Try tapping the lock ring spanner tight with a mallet, it might work, depending on your BB material. It didn't work for my stainless steel frame. Alternatively, wedge some resilient material between the motor & the downtube, your motor is trying to move upwards under torque (see suggestions earlier in thread) or make a custom motor support. If you do make a support try to have something rubber or plastic in it. The motor is markedly less noisy in a metal frame if you do this. I made one out of HDPE but you won't get it anything like as quiet as a BBS if yours was as noisy as mine. Biggest reduction in noise is achieved by cleaning out the secondary gears (easy) and re-packing well with SHC-100 or the like.

vscope   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by vscope » Sep 21 2018 5:44am

@casainho

is it possible to calculate and add these 2 values to the "odometer field" values?

human_power_watt
total_power_watt (motor + human power)

would be great to have these values!

still waiting for my lcd3 to use the opensource firmware.

i am riding ath the moment the 36v motor with 12s lipo battery with updated eprom values.
400km done so far and everything is fine!

reg52nz   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by reg52nz » Sep 21 2018 6:37am

I see quite a few people spoke positively about the TSDZ2 . I wonder if the same people are still positive a year or so later?

I did 1000 km on mine until it died. I installed a new controller and got it going again, but it made a horrendous noise. After two more strip downs the noise has gone and it works in walking mode only. No pedal assist at all to speak of. When it senses some torque it gives a split second burst of power and then nothing.

Should I just put myself out of my misery and bin the TSDZ2 or has anyone encountered this problem and sorted it ?

Reg

flufferty   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by flufferty » Sep 21 2018 6:47am

So I posted a few pages back about having a high noise from my motor, and after checking the nylon gear's condition I was curious what else could cause the noise.

This video is from the other side, where the little spur gear is, is the clearance shown here normal?
Or is this the source of my noise problems?
Also note that I have not cleaned this from grease, this is first time I am opening that cover, and motor has barely gone 50km.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4115HiqA5Z8

hobbyvac   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hobbyvac » Sep 21 2018 9:14am

That is too much backlash for sure. I would say it never had enough lube and caused some wear?

Walterinox   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Walterinox » Sep 21 2018 11:04am

Hallo to All!!!
I'm a new user from Italy, I was convinced by Casainho's open source firmware, so I bought a complete kit.. Tongshen should sponsor the Casainho work!
This is my 2 cents:
1 - cut away the cable into the motor controller, and connect there the new cable of KT-LCD3.
2 - use the cable cutted for a perfect programming cable. I think every morning we have to flash some new firmware!
3 - put some silicon in the hole with new cable, so the controller will be again watherproof.
4 - There are 2 way for arrange cables exit from motor: use the best for your configuration.

Attached some photos, my byke is a cheap and heawy Rockrider 520S, but perfect for some weekly trip around.
Chain line also is perfect.

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Walterinox   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Walterinox » Sep 21 2018 11:09am

Attention: change green wire and yellow wire in the controller junction as you see in photo, otherwise you have to change into LCD3, as I had to do....
This is the correct junction: yellow -> orange green -> brown

(Sorry for my English....)

alva78   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by alva78 » Sep 21 2018 2:08pm

I got all the material for the flash, the engine pinout with accelerator is just like on the wiki? thank you

mctubster   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Sep 21 2018 11:26pm

wheelyphased wrote:
Sep 21 2018 1:52am
Try tapping the lock ring spanner tight with a mallet, it might work, depending on your BB material. It didn't work for my stainless steel frame. Alternatively, wedge some resilient material between the motor & the downtube, your motor is trying to move upwards under torque (see suggestions earlier in thread) or make a custom motor support. If you do make a support try to have something rubber or plastic in it. The motor is markedly less noisy in a metal frame if you do this. I made one out of HDPE but you won't get it anything like as quiet as a BBS if yours was as noisy as mine. Biggest reduction in noise is achieved by cleaning out the secondary gears (easy) and re-packing well with SHC-100 or the like.
Thanks for the feedback. Really appreciate it. Will place some gym mat foam between the motor body and the frame, though my frame is very heavy steel so not sure how much difference it will make. Hopefully some as I am getting vibration through the handlebars which makes me think the motor or something is unbalanced.

While I love the torque sensing the lack of low down torque, high rpm torque and the motor noise is making me consider going back to my Bafang on this bike.

Thanks

flufferty   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by flufferty » Sep 22 2018 12:24pm

Hey again,

I am back with the noisy TSDZ2, and a new video, showing me cranking the pedals without chain or anything attached.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toPRX2CrUmA
As you hopefully can hear there is a loud rattling/metal-sound, and I assume that is the same problem that is causing this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF99aYNa3WI

The nylon gear looked fine, and I have not used this motor much at all due to the high noise.
My question is am I correct in assuming that the culprit is the little metal/spur gear shown here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4115HiqA5Z8

When cranking the pedals manually, only the large gear and little gear + shaft is moving, or did I get that wrong?
(to narrow down the suspects)

The seller (pswpower/Alice) is asking what part is broken, so to actually get my motor running I have to answer something and hopefully get a replacement-part..
BTW I did grease the spur gears with a lot of SHC 100, and the noise did not change much, if anything.

mctubster   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Sep 22 2018 11:21pm

flufferty wrote:
Sep 22 2018 12:24pm
The seller (pswpower/Alice) is asking what part is broken, so to actually get my motor running I have to answer something and hopefully get a replacement-part..
BTW I did grease the spur gears with a lot of SHC 100, and the noise did not change much, if anything.
Hi there. I see we are both new owners of noisy TSDZ2's. Actually I think mine is normalish noise, just a lot louder than what it replaced. Yours however - the clicking noise does not sound great. I did a basic count and got approx 10 clicks per crank revolution. No idea what the gearing ratio but if we assume rated RPM of the motor is 4000, and that equates to approx 90 peddle RPM then we have a ratio of around 45:1 maybe 50:1 ... so one crank rev = 50 engine rev / 10 clicks = a click every 5 engine revs. Hmmmm so much for my theory of one pole clipping something. Is the gearing for the blue gear to motor 5:1?

Have you asked to swap the entire motor as DOA?

Best

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 24 2018 8:17am

Walterinox wrote:
Sep 21 2018 11:04am
Hallo to All!!!
I'm a new user from Italy, I was convinced by Casainho's open source firmware, so I bought a complete kit.. Tongshen should sponsor the Casainho work!
Thanks for sharing!! I really liked the details on how to fix the motor on that dual suspension bicycle -- seems a good solution to me.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

shaddi   10 mW

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Joined: May 30 2018 3:20pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by shaddi » Sep 24 2018 8:59am

Hi all,

here is my solution to mount the motor on a full-suspension bike. Milled out of GFK.
small-IMG_20180922_122834_982.jpg
small-IMG_20180922_213351_027.jpg
small-IMG_20180923_175411_333.jpg
What is the actual "best practice" to flash the firmware on the motor? Do i have to cut the speed-sensor-cable? Dont want to wait 4+ weeks for replacement speed sensor shipped to germany :)

bye,
Karl

Waynemarlow   100 W

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Joined: Jul 09 2016 7:22am
Location: Bucks, England

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Sep 24 2018 1:14pm

Try https://www.e-bike-technologies.de/inde ... ctors/higowhere you can by the Higo connector for just a few Euros and as you're in Germany, it will be with you in a couple of days.

hurzhurz   100 mW

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Joined: Nov 02 2016 11:46am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hurzhurz » Sep 24 2018 4:25pm

Does someone want to test a very early firmware for the XH18LCD, to be used with the opensource TSDZ2 firmware (as an alternative for the LCD3)?
Ideally someone who already has a working LCD3 for comparison (me not).

It can be found here:
https://github.com/hurzhurz/xh18lcd/tre ... e_firmware

And please be aware that the code quality is probably far away from "good" and I'm also not sure if this will ever lead to a really usable firmware...
Some TSDZ2 information: https://github.com/hurzhurz/tsdz2
XH18LCD firmware development information: https://github.com/hurzhurz/xh18lcd

alva78   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by alva78 » Sep 24 2018 7:26pm

someone with the 8-wire motor has already installed the firmware? the colors of the cables are correct?

Rydon   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Sep 25 2018 1:22am

hurzhurz wrote:
Sep 24 2018 4:25pm
Does someone want to test a very early firmware for the XH18LCD, to be used with the opensource TSDZ2 firmware (as an alternative for the LCD3)?
Ideally someone who already has a working LCD3 for comparison (me not).
I have a few extra XH18's available. Can they be programmed back to the original firmware if needed? Does the new XH18 firmware use the same firmware in the TSDZ2 as the LCD3? What features are implemented? Are the setup menus enabled?

When I get some time, I would like to try it.

shaddi   10 mW

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Joined: May 30 2018 3:20pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by shaddi » Sep 25 2018 1:31am

Waynemarlow wrote:
Sep 24 2018 1:14pm
Try https://www.e-bike-technologies.de/inde ... ctors/higowhere you can by the Higo connector for just a few Euros and as you're in Germany, it will be with you in a couple of days.
I already know the page, but they dont have the female 6-pole connector :(
hurzhurz wrote:
Sep 24 2018 4:25pm
Does someone want to test a very early firmware for the XH18LCD, to be used with the opensource TSDZ2 firmware (as an alternative for the LCD3)?
yes, yes, yes! :) Have a spare XH18 for development, will flash it today at work. Still need to flash the motor controller :(

shaddi   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by shaddi » Sep 25 2018 2:43am

shaddi wrote:
Sep 25 2018 1:31am
Waynemarlow wrote:
Sep 24 2018 1:14pm
Try https://www.e-bike-technologies.de/inde ... ctors/higowhere you can by the Higo connector for just a few Euros and as you're in Germany, it will be with you in a couple of days.
I already know the page, but they dont have the female 6-pole connector :(
just found a shop in germany that ships the speed sensor for a fair price..
https://www.elektrofahrrad-einfach.de/p ... agnet.html

hurzhurz   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hurzhurz » Sep 25 2018 5:38am

Rydon wrote:
Sep 25 2018 1:22am
I have a few extra XH18's available. Can they be programmed back to the original firmware if needed? Does the new XH18 firmware use the same firmware in the TSDZ2 as the LCD3? What features are implemented? Are the setup menus enabled?
Sure, you can flash the original firmware again, you can find a backup of mine in the repository (but I would recommend to create a backup of flash/eeprom by yourself too):
https://github.com/hurzhurz/xh18lcd/tre ... r/firmware

You have to use version 0.12 of the opensource firmware on the TSDZ2. This is the version I started to develop with and I have not yet implemented the communication change of 0.13.

For features, you can look what I already did for a proof-of-concept version for the original TSDZ2 firmware:
https://github.com/hurzhurz/xh18lcd/tre ... d-features
It is basically the same at the moment.
But there is no filtering/smoothing of the values (especially battery level) yet.

There is a setup menu, but it includes just a couple of the many configuration variables yet.
But I did copy all variables of the casainho's LCD3 firmware. They can be added to the setup menu by extending a setup-item-struct-array here:
https://github.com/hurzhurz/xh18lcd/blo ... D.ino#L259

@shaddi:
I would rather buy the display extension cable for 2€ more like I did a while ago:
https://www.elektrofahrrad-einfach.de/p ... DU250.html
Some TSDZ2 information: https://github.com/hurzhurz/tsdz2
XH18LCD firmware development information: https://github.com/hurzhurz/xh18lcd

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 25 2018 7:05am

hurzhurz wrote:
Sep 25 2018 5:38am
For features, you can look what I already did for a proof-of-concept version for the original TSDZ2 firmware:
https://github.com/hurzhurz/xh18lcd/tre ... d-features
Really nice that page!!

Maybe we could share a common wiki page for users how to flash a firmware hex file on Windows....
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

mctubster   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Sep 25 2018 7:48am

Hi all,

OK have done 70KM now. No change in noise profile. Still far too noisy for me. Have read a few tips about greasing the secondary gears (is this the big flywheel being driven by the small cog?) to reduce noise ... and to use Mobilith SHC 100.

I can't seem to find anywhere to purchase Mobilith SHC 100 in Australia, at least for the average consumer ... any other recommendations for grease?

Could someone who is out there who feels they have an almost silent TSDZ2 please record a quick video and post to youtube. I'm trying to work out if mine is a bad build or they are generally the same and "silent" is subjective.

Thanks a lot
Steve

alva78   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by alva78 » Sep 25 2018 4:45pm

hi i need help, i flashed the open v13 firmware on my 8 pin tsdz2 and the klcd3 has bugger, i tried to swap rx and tx but it does not work!
I directly exchanged the cable in klcd3
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casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 26 2018 4:20am

alva78 wrote:
Sep 25 2018 4:45pm
hi i need help, i flashed the open v13 firmware on my 8 pin tsdz2 and the klcd3 has bugger, i tried to swap rx and tx but it does not work!
I directly exchanged the cable in klcd3
If you flash the both firmware of same version, it must work if the UART TX and RX lines are correct. Please verify and try again, if it does not work, I would say you have some hardware problem as it is confirmed it works for several users.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Sep 26 2018 5:39am

Testing the TSDZ2 flexible OpenSource firmware and the motor temperature sensor

On last weekend, I participated on the most harsh travel I ever did and I could do it only thanks to TSDZ2 and our flexible OpenSource firmware -- I am really happy for all the investment I did up to now!!

The Castle Quest, to conquer 8 castles on the historic villages in Portugal, 325kms in 2 days on the mountains. It was very hard to me, once I was near to drink water from a puddle in the ground because it was very hot on the top of mountains and I was alone without water...

So, there was long and very steep slopes and because my chain ring has a big number of teeth, I could not pedal at less than 10km/h and so I had to use the motor max possible power. Also on the last day I had to tow a college on the slopes, using an elastic cable and again, TSDZ2 at max possible power. TSDZ2 never failed to me, it always worked perfectly!!

I did an upgrade to my battery to be 52V (14S) and used cells of 3600mAh each and I even took another extra battery with the same cells and voltage. The 52V 14S cells work very well!!
And I have luck to have a friend that build custom packs from scooters and ebikes. Also important that our firmware is very efficient other way I would probably need to carry another extra battery pack :-(

Another very important piece of technology was the motor temperature sensor!! I pushed the motor to the max current of 18 amps (almost 1000W) at the very steep slopes and when towing my partner, the motor get's hot quick but the temperature sensor did protect the motor!!

A feature that is currently missing and made my experience hard, is the walk assist mode because I had to push by hand my heavy ebike on some places :-)

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Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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