New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 01 2018 3:19pm

I already did answer to you on the other thread. Seems that like me and others, you got a TSDZ2 with a faulty torque sensor, because your ASC value for it is reading 0.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: Making a Cable for KT-LCD3

Post by tomtom50 » Oct 01 2018 10:33pm

billm wrote:
Sep 30 2018 3:45pm
Where did you get the "files" to reflash to 52v?

I've spent hours and hours and hours trying to get to this point. Right now I still can't talk to the device, but I'm guessing finding the correct files is going to be my next problem if I ever get past this one.
tomtom50 wrote:
Sep 29 2018 11:17am
I bought a 52V unit that had 48V settings, seems quite a few left the factory that way. In the end had to re flash with 52V files to get it right. No problems since.
I sympathasize. Eyebyesickle posted the files here
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&start=2925#p1398895
Also a video that was easy for me to follow.

As far as establishing connection, first I followed the instructions here
https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... romscratch

That got me connected. The problem is that editing the values did not work. Apparently some TSDZ2 need both the data memory and the program memory flashed (the 52vdatamemory.s19 and 52vprogrammemory.s19 files).

I did get an error when I was installing the software, but it still worked, I made connection.

Finally, as I recall the TSDZ2 had to be off to connect. If it was on I could not connect.

Good luck

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tomtom50 » Oct 01 2018 10:39pm

billm wrote:
Sep 30 2018 10:29pm
Woo!

Just saw these 2 replies, but before I quit for the evening I thought I'd remake the cable at about 6". That did it! Now I just feel embarrassed about getting frustrated. ;)

So following the instructions here:
https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... romscratch

I've rewritten line 00004000 to:

50 82 17 00 00 00 00 0C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

That's it? My tsdz2 now supports both 48v and 52v batt? That's all I was looking to do.
I did what you just did and it wasn't enough. I had to change both data and program files.

You will know as soon as you charge your 52V battery and use it. If the settings were enough it will work. If it doesn't work that means the settings did not take and the battery voltage is above the 48V high limit setting.

Buying the 52V unit is not guarantee. I bought one, it was factory labeled 52V, and it had 48V firmware!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Oct 01 2018 10:54pm

Anyone had any issues with the supplied TSDZ2 chain ring (mine is 42) having some eccentricity?

Mine is not a perfect circle. It is very noticeable with a internally geared hub on the back. The chain tension goes from too tight to too loose depending on the position of the front chain ring.

I noticed because I thought the rear wheel was moving forward on me and making the chain looser, but when cleaning the chain I noticed the tension varying as I moved it by hand.

Thanks a lot

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by markz » Oct 02 2018 5:17pm

KD5ZXG wrote:
Aug 15 2018 6:06pm
The rat with Sunlite Double Springer and no motor is mine.
Yours is totally different then this Sunlite
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sunlite-Fork-Sp ... SwbRFaxpmQ

I dig the look, but I need fat so easily modified with welder.

Bartman   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bartman » Oct 03 2018 7:39am

Does anyone have a .hex file of the original 36v Firmware for the TSDZ2 that they can send me ? Or know of another way to get the standard firmware back onto the motor ?

I stupidly did not save a copy and want to do some faultfinding/diagnostics using the standard firmware.

Thanks

EndlessCadence   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by EndlessCadence » Oct 03 2018 7:55am

Bartman wrote:
Oct 03 2018 7:39am
Does anyone have a .hex file of the original 36v Firmware for the TSDZ2 that they can send me ? Or know of another way to get the standard firmware back onto the motor ?

I stupidly did not save a copy and want to do some faultfinding/diagnostics using the standard firmware.

Thanks
I'm not sure but this could be the original firmware? https://github.com/hurzhurz/tsdz2/tree/master/firmware
Did never test it though.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bartman » Oct 03 2018 8:23am

EndlessCadence wrote:
Oct 03 2018 7:55am
Bartman wrote:
Oct 03 2018 7:39am
Does anyone have a .hex file of the original 36v Firmware for the TSDZ2 that they can send me ? Or know of another way to get the standard firmware back onto the motor ?

I stupidly did not save a copy and want to do some faultfinding/diagnostics using the standard firmware.

Thanks
I'm not sure but this could be the original firmware? https://github.com/hurzhurz/tsdz2/tree/master/firmware
Did never test it though.
Thanks, Endless cadence. I will try that, however, I have the VLCD5 so not sure it will work.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bart1006 » Oct 03 2018 9:32am

Bartman wrote:
Oct 03 2018 8:23am
EndlessCadence wrote:
Oct 03 2018 7:55am
Bartman wrote:
Oct 03 2018 7:39am
Does anyone have a .hex file of the original 36v Firmware for the TSDZ2 that they can send me ? Or know of another way to get the standard firmware back onto the motor ?

I stupidly did not save a copy and want to do some faultfinding/diagnostics using the standard firmware.

Thanks
I'm not sure but this could be the original firmware? https://github.com/hurzhurz/tsdz2/tree/master/firmware
Did never test it though.
Thanks, Endless cadence. I will try that, however, I have the VLCD5 so not sure it will work.
This is a export of the program, data and option byte tab from the original firmware 36v.
TSDZ_36v_original.zip
(15.35 KiB) Downloaded 66 times

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by feketehegyi » Oct 03 2018 11:00am

fyi, my DIY cheap workaround connecting ST-LINK V2 to motor controller.

billm   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by billm » Oct 03 2018 10:43pm

Welp I finally tried out my 52v batt with my newly flashed tsdz2 and I'm seeing most of the same problems with it that I saw before flashing. Initially I get 10-15minute of run, then it cuts out. Following that the cut outs become more and more frequent until eventually I get little more than a few seconds before it shuts down again. This batt has a switch on it so I have to power it off, then on, then turn the tsdz2 back on to get another 10-90 seconds of run time.

Is this cut out issue still tsdz2 programming or is it just time to admit that I've been ripped of to the tune of $600 by a shady aliexpress seller? When I put the batt back on the charger it still looks like it has plenty of voltage. 53.3V after a good 8mi ride. Sigh... I Even popped the cover off the batt and they look like genuine Panasonic cells, but who the hell knows.

God damn I'm growing to despise technology, and I've been in the software racket for 25 years. The more of this shit you have in your life, the more YOU end up working for IT, rather than vice-versa. Ted Kazinski was a freakin' visionary. I suppose if there's an upside, its that the much hyped new Chinese navy probably has weapons that work about as well as this POS, so nothing to fear there.
Last edited by billm on Oct 04 2018 12:26am, edited 1 time in total.

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Oct 03 2018 11:06pm

billm,

So, your unit works up to 58.8v but cuts out after riding 10-15 miles? It sounds like voltage sag is a possible problem when the battery is getting partially drained... if the LVC is 45, and when you put the battery on the charger it was 53ish... I'd say that's resting voltage which is a bit higher but lowers fast under load... what size/capacity battery is it? Could be possible weak series connection if the battery is sizeable, but by the time the battery is resting at 53v... and if you're using full assist power the whole ride, you may just have drained your battery mostly, and towards the end a lower assist power level will help prevent voltage sag from triggering the LVC cutout, but a battery is already pretty low by the time it reaches it's 'nominal' voltage.

Edit: errrr now I'm seeing just 8 miles you went? I feel like that is low for even a 6ah battery... Let's hear more about the battery...
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billm   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by billm » Oct 04 2018 12:17am

The exact battery description:

14S Sanyo cell 51.8V 52V 17.5Ah Li-ion Battery 48V 1000W Electric Fat Bike Hailong Battery

This was the vendor:
https://unitpackpower.aliexpress.com/st ... 4c4dDlXijT

Yes, the batt is recognized by the tsdz2 at 58.8V. That's definitely new behavior. If I previously charged this battery to 58.8 the tsdz2 wouldn't power on until I dropped the voltage to 54 or so by running an incandescent bulb off of it. At that point I could run it with the TSDZ2, but it would do the cutting out after a few minutes thing, so I assumed that problem was also related to the 48V/52V mismatch. Apparently its something else because it's still happening even after flashing.

The battery cuts out after 10-15 minutes not miles. My 48V 10Ah battery can do the whole trip I just did at full power, so I'd assume that the 52V 17.5Ah battery should be able to too. But again, on a fresh charge with the 52V batt, it'll run for 10-15 minutes, then cut out. I restart, get another few minutes, then fewer minutes, then seconds between cut outs. Same behavior as before flashing.

Interestingly it doesn't necessarily cut out under load. It may, but it'll also just shut itself down while coasting or at a stop light. Perhaps it's just a loose connection somewhere, bad controller, a dead cell? The fact that the batt still reported 53.3V to my charger after I drained it for a good 8 miles (and about 30 reboots) makes me think that the cells aren't phoney. Or hope anyway...

Another data point- the battery sometimes feels "jerkier" than my 48V, like the power wanes and surges, especially before cutting out.

Sigh. I can see myself having to completely disassemble, test every cell, and re-wire this effing thing. Just what I need, another project.

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Oct 04 2018 1:30am

I get random cutouts on my hub bike. I installed a bypass wire across the bms and all fixed
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Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=150

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jpa » Oct 04 2018 1:40am

Bought the 36V 250W TSDZ2 with coaster brake function and VLCD5 display from PSWpower, as well as a 36V 14.5Ah battery with Samsung cells. Assembled everything on the bike and then when I tried to turn on the display nothing happen.
Disconnected everything and then connected it again a dozen of times but that did not help. I thought there were some connection error so I borrowed a multi-meter and checked the voltage from the battery (~41V) and on the display holder (two middle connections, ~41V). Then tried to turn on the display and yay it worked! Adjusted the speed limit and took it for a ride, worked like a charm. Turned it off and on a couple of times as well as removed the battery and connected it again and it worked as it suppose to.

The morning after I was suppose to take the bike to work the display would not turn on...
Now I have tried to turn on the display four days in a row and it has been working one of them, yesterday. Then i rode about 30km disconnecting the battery three times and even if I had to press the power button on the display several times to get it to start it did eventually. Once the display is on there are no issues at all, motor runs as it should and the display stays on until I power it off (or automatically powers off after 5 minutes).

Now this morning it was the same as before; display will not turn on.
Do you have any idea what it could be? When the display does not turn on I can hear an almost silent "click" from the motor when I press power button or the i-button.

Any help is most appreciated!

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 04 2018 2:03am

billm wrote:
Oct 04 2018 12:17am
The exact battery description:

14S Sanyo cell 51.8V 52V 17.5Ah Li-ion Battery 48V 1000W Electric Fat Bike Hailong Battery

This was the vendor:
https://unitpackpower.aliexpress.com/st ... 4c4dDlXijT

Yes, the batt is recognized by the tsdz2 at 58.8V. That's definitely new behavior. If I previously charged this battery to 58.8 the tsdz2 wouldn't power on until I dropped the voltage to 54 or so by running an incandescent bulb off of it. At that point I could run it with the TSDZ2, but it would do the cutting out after a few minutes thing, so I assumed that problem was also related to the 48V/52V mismatch. Apparently its something else because it's still happening even after flashing.

The battery cuts out after 10-15 minutes not miles. My 48V 10Ah battery can do the whole trip I just did at full power, so I'd assume that the 52V 17.5Ah battery should be able to too. But again, on a fresh charge with the 52V batt, it'll run for 10-15 minutes, then cut out. I restart, get another few minutes, then fewer minutes, then seconds between cut outs. Same behavior as before flashing.

Interestingly it doesn't necessarily cut out under load. It may, but it'll also just shut itself down while coasting or at a stop light. Perhaps it's just a loose connection somewhere, bad controller, a dead cell? The fact that the batt still reported 53.3V to my charger after I drained it for a good 8 miles (and about 30 reboots) makes me think that the cells aren't phoney. Or hope anyway...

Another data point- the battery sometimes feels "jerkier" than my 48V, like the power wanes and surges, especially before cutting out.

Sigh. I can see myself having to completely disassemble, test every cell, and re-wire this effing thing. Just what I need, another project.
Maybe the issue this is because you are riding at full power, the motor gets to hot and cuts off??

Go and read about motor max temperature on oir OpenSource firmware wiki. I installed a motor temperature sensor to avoid damage of the motor and having cut off of the power when riding at full max power!!
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Oct 04 2018 6:27am

billm wrote:
Oct 03 2018 10:43pm

Is this cut out issue still tsdz2 programming or is it just time to admit that I've been ripped of to the tune of $600 by a shady aliexpress seller? When I put the batt back on the charger it still looks like it has plenty of voltage. 53.3V after a good 8mi ride. Sigh... I Even popped the cover off the batt and they look like genuine Panasonic cells, but who the hell knows.
If your motor does the same run with another battery OK, that points to the new battery. By the way it is behaving sounds a bit like the BMS in the battery is tripping. Could simply be faulty. Have you contacted the seller?

Oh and what cells are in the battery? What is max discharge rate of each cell? Not sure what the max draw of the 48V motor is. If you are using a throttle wide open maybe the BMS is overheating?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by billm » Oct 04 2018 12:04pm

Cells in the batt are supposed to be sanyo NCR18650GA. I believe max discharge is 10A.

I took the cover off the battery and was not particularly impressed with what I saw. Again, cells look legit enough, but I suppose it wouldn't be that hard to counterfeit the jackets. Build quality isn't exactly impressive- lots of cardboard and tape and wires running everywhere. Not exactly orderly.

I'd sooner suspect over heating in the batt or BMS than the motor given that the motor never has any issues with my 48V battery.

Anybody know where I can buy a new bms and maybe some of those plastic cell holder things, and a cheap spot welder? Looks like I'm going to be rebuilding this battery. Properly.

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feketehegyi   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by feketehegyi » Oct 04 2018 3:07pm

fyi, I could update the factory default firmware with changing only 7 bytes to send to display the battery voltage, current and pedal cadence. With my Android app these values are visible. Here's my demo video:

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Oct 04 2018 4:36pm

billm wrote:
Oct 04 2018 12:04pm
Cells in the batt are supposed to be sanyo NCR18650GA. I believe max discharge is 10A.

I took the cover off the battery and was not particularly impressed with what I saw. Again, cells look legit enough, but I suppose it wouldn't be that hard to counterfeit the jackets. Build quality isn't exactly impressive- lots of cardboard and tape and wires running everywhere. Not exactly orderly.
Sounds a bit like my battery from China re construction. TBH there are a lot of balance wires from the BMS and cardboard seems common.

A decent BMS isn't cheap. $50-60 from what I have seen. I would contact the seller, maybe they can supply you with a new bms and you can swap?

I would try that first

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jbalat   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Oct 04 2018 6:46pm

mctubster wrote:
Oct 04 2018 4:36pm
A decent BMS isn't cheap. $50-60 from what I have seen. I would contact the seller, maybe they can supply you with a new bms and you can swap?
or bypass the bms to test
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Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=150

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Oct 04 2018 9:20pm

billm wrote:
Oct 04 2018 12:04pm
Cells in the batt are supposed to be sanyo NCR18650GA. I believe max discharge is 10A.
Wow they look like nice cells from these results https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2 ... %20UK.html

Other than bypassing the BMS (dont short it, no protection anymore) if you are able to remove the batteries / bms still assembled and weigh it will give you an idea if they are counterfeit, in my experience counterfeit cells are significantly lighter than the real deal. eg these cells are approx 47g each, and based on your specification your battery is 13s5p so 65cells x 47g = 3.055KG

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 05 2018 12:31am

How to install TSDZ2 on Decatlhon RockRider 540 S full suspension bicycle

I bought new bicycle, this time a full suspension and it was cheap on Decatlhon for 500 euros. Thanks to the pictures/ideas shared by an user on how to fix TSDZ2 to the frame, I took the risk to buy this bicycle RockRider 540 S to install TSDZ2.

I bought on a local shop a pipe clamp and a metal bar and at home I had to drill the metal bar and use file, etc.
The metal bar I did to fix TSDZ2 seems to be longer than needed, but it is to accommodate the front derailleur not seems on the images.
I also had to file TSDZ2 housing in some parts to not touch the rear suspension triangle of the frame.

Also since the bicycle has hydraulic brakes, I had to use the type of sensor brakes as seem on the pictures.

I installed the motor temperature sensor and our flexible OpenSource firmware, using the wiki instructions -- it worked everything the first time :-)

I am sharing this images in the hope it can help others that want to install TSDZ2 on a bicycle with a similar frame.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, you can consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sulx » Oct 05 2018 1:10am

EndlessScream wrote:
Oct 01 2018 9:46am
I would like to flash my controller, but suprisingly my speed connector has only 4 pins (not 6), so I don't know how to connect ST Link (and I don't know if it is even possible this way).
I have measured voltage levels and I have identified 3 pins (ground, 6V for headlight and speed sensor input with pullup resistor to 5V).
Would it be possible program the controller using only ground pin and SWIM? I have read that connecting RESET pin (purple wire) is optional and power for the controller can be provided from the battery.
Had similar situation with speed sensor being only 4 wire. As RC hobbyist i had jst wires and plug sets available (e.g. https://hobbyking.com/en_us/jst-sh-serv ... s-set.html) and cut one wire and connected female plugs to other end.

Image

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by thineight » Oct 05 2018 4:20am

casainho wrote:
Oct 05 2018 12:31am
How to install TSDZ2 on Decatlhon RockRider 540 S full suspension bicycle

I bought new bicycle, this time a full suspension and it was cheap on Decatlhon for 500 euros. Thanks to the pictures/ideas shared by an user on how to fix TSDZ2 to the frame, I took the risk to buy this bicycle RockRider 540 S to install TSDZ2.

Also since the bicycle has hydraulic brakes, I had to use the type of sensor brakes as seem on the pictures.

I am sharing this images in the hope it can help others that want to install TSDZ2 on a bicycle with a similar frame.

Image
Hello casainho and everyone, I'm new on this forum as active user but I was a silent follower since 1yr ago, when I bought two TSDZ2 motors.
Last year I installed the motors on two city bikes, and I home made a brake cut off system with a magnet and a reed switch, very cheap and it worked out. I have the VLCD5 display so i wired one brake with 2 wires on one of the ports on the back of VLCD5.
If needed, more info on the italian forum where I posted a schematic and picts of the actual work.
https://www.emtb-mag.com/forum/threads/ ... post-54805
https://www.emtb-mag.com/forum/threads/ ... post-62469

In june I made the decision and I bought a KTM mtb 29" and I moved one motor on it, and I've recycled the brake cut off system. I had to adapt a bit the system since the city bike's brakes were wired while the MTB ones are hydraulic, so the "travel" of the lever was nearly zero at the magnet location.

Recently, after a careful review of jbalat videos, I convinced myself to give a try to the Open Source Firmware (compliments for the great work to casainho and all the active contributors) and I ordered the display KT-LCD3 plus the usb programmer.
While waiting I realized that there are not (as far as i can see) the ports on the back like the VLCD5 where I wired the brake cut off system.

Casainho, i saw in the last picture above you installed a brake sensor on hydraulic brakes and LCD3, could you please explain which cut off you used, and how you wired it into the display? Or just redirect me to a site with the instruction, then i can work it out myself.
Many thanks and, again, thanks for the great job!

Thineight
MTB KTM Ultra 29" - City bike DAYTONA 28"

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