New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Uturn   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 29
Joined: Jun 06 2018 10:09am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Uturn » Oct 27 2018 7:20am

Rydon wrote:
Oct 22 2018 10:13pm
Picnic wrote:
Oct 21 2018 3:04pm
The coaster brake version is different controller firmware and is also mechanically different. There is 0 motor lag after you stop pedaling and it does not freewheel at the cranks.
So why is not everybody using this motor? Zero motor lag is no problem, and one freewheel less positive because less defects. Does @Casainho's software have any problems with the coaster brake version of that motor?

sidmodi   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Oct 28 2018 12:57am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sidmodi » Oct 28 2018 1:05am

1 week of reading and 150 pages later, here I am. First and foremost, a huge shoutout to Casainho (and co) for creating and maintaining the open source project. And a huge thanks to everyone else who has posted on this thread filling it up with (mostly useful) knowledge.

I have finally ordered my TSDZ2 Motor kit and my battery and LCD3 to convert my Trek Hybrid 7.2 FX. Things will start arriving in 2 weeks-ish. I am going to use that time to get ready to flash the fw and maybe create a workbench with some electronics equipment in the garage. I'll try my best to document every part of the process and maybe create a "Step-by-step Guide" or something along those lines to share with you wonderful people. Once everything is up and running, I am hoping to contribute to the open source project too!

For anyone who is interested, I ordered the 48V motor kit from recycles-ebike.com (big thanks to David for answering my questions very promptly). I ordered a 14Ah battery and the LCD3 from aliexpress.

I'm excited to join this community and share my progress with everyone!

User avatar
jbalat   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 507
Joined: Nov 10 2012 11:50pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Oct 28 2018 2:20am

sidmodi wrote:
Oct 28 2018 1:05am
1 week of reading and 150 pages later, here I am. First and foremost, a huge shoutout to Casainho (and co) for creating and maintaining the open source project. And a huge thanks to everyone else who has posted on this thread filling it up with (mostly useful) knowledge.
Hope everything goes well, don’t be afraid to ask questions :)

ernesto05   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 1
Joined: Oct 29 2018 7:26am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ernesto05 » Oct 29 2018 7:32am

Hi I'm new here and have been using my TSDZ2 motor for a month. I love it and it seems making the upgrade to the KT-LCD3 with new firmware is the next best thing. Does anyone here maybe know a business or a person in or around Austin, Texas familiar with this motor? I'm looking to see if someone would do this for me as I have bought all the components just don't have the know how. :?:

Rydon   10 W

10 W
Posts: 76
Joined: Aug 11 2016 5:26pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Oct 29 2018 11:07pm

Rydon wrote:
Oct 22 2018 10:13pm
The coaster brake version is different controller firmware and is also mechanically different. There is 0 motor lag after you stop pedaling and it does not freewheel at the cranks.
Picnic wrote:
Oct 21 2018 3:04pm
So why is not everybody using this motor? Zero motor lag is no problem, and one freewheel less positive because less defects. Does @Casainho's software have any problems with the coaster brake version of that motor?
For obvious reasons e.g., no freewheel at the motor, you cannot have a throttle or walk assist with the coaster brake version. Also, I don't know the full reason why but TongSheng does not feel the coaster brake version of the motor is safe above 350 watts. I am cautiously running a few at 500 watts and have not seen any safety issues.
Last edited by Rydon on Oct 29 2018 11:47pm, edited 3 times in total.

Rydon   10 W

10 W
Posts: 76
Joined: Aug 11 2016 5:26pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Oct 29 2018 11:40pm

mctubster wrote:
Oct 25 2018 5:52pm
Rafe wrote:
Oct 25 2018 7:25am
The 850C/DPC14 was improved some months ago and the clock actually remembers the time now. To charge the coin cell, the display needs to be on, battery switched on alone is not enough, Afaik It is not made by Bafang while the new DPC 18 is. I have the DPC 18 and have had both ( I believe there are more than two) variants of the DPC14/850c and my favourite is the later DPC 14 /850c. The viewing angles are good and the remote buttons much improved.
Are you aware of anyway to tell the difference (externally) between the two 850c revisions?
As someone pointed out - the numbers on the back of the 850C are the best way to tell the difference. There were 3-4 different versions during 2016 to 2017 with different firmware for each. One of the latest mods doubled the memory. The 850C versions and firmware appear to have stabilized since the end of 2017. All of 2018 has been the same firmware. Look for 850C-TFTGDV2.1B60 and 850C-TFTGDV2.1C60 as the latest versions. They both use the same firmware.

KD5ZXG   1 W

1 W
Posts: 53
Joined: Jul 13 2018 10:02pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by KD5ZXG » Oct 30 2018 12:18am

Re Rydon, let me take a wild stab in the dark guess. No facts, just speculation:

Don't see how you could backpedal without the motor backpeddlin' along with you. I mean, wouldn't that strip a gear trying to spin the motor? Therefore you prolly got 500W of coaster braking assist. More than you may actually need. And once it locks up, all current in the motor with no back EMF to restrict it, or movement to keep things cool. Like going straight uphill in high gear, backwards, only worse.

Maybe why they think unsafe? Firmware should be smarter, but perhaps it isn't. Not even a thermal sensor unless you add one. 350W limit might just be a substitute for lazy. Smaller current limit for reverse should solve it. If it already had that feature, backpedal Watt limit would be meaningless and never challenged.

--- --- ---

I didn't get the coaster version, and have never tried it. Traded my 3i coaster away for a CSA 6speed automatic, still in the mail somewhere theoretically. Right now with no rear hub, no spokes, no decided front or rear brake plan whatsoever. Can't exactly ride it like this. A little worried my TSDZ2's chainring sprag will drag more than the CSA derailleur can pull, excess chain could pile up at the top. But until it all arrives (if ever) I can't even make a plan to deal with all the unknown unknowns. Autoshifting with 500W should be interessent, if'n it doesn't fold from such abuse right off the bat. As long as front freewheel drags less than the rear, it should at least downshift to 1st without having to think about it, and that might help.

Did this test fit with chopsticks though. Half-baked scheme still needs to do something about inside face of motor housing. Its all clamped against the top edge of the American bracket and force is not well distributed. If I really wanted to fix this correctly, Bikewow makes an adaptor with a ring that spans a BB30 shaped depression on the inside face. I may just fill the problem area flat with JBWeld, so the entire circumference of my bracket might support the inside face. No sense having it crack in two, as someone in this thread showed us earlier.
chopstix.jpg
Last edited by KD5ZXG on Oct 30 2018 1:27am, edited 7 times in total.

User avatar
jbalat   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 507
Joined: Nov 10 2012 11:50pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jbalat » Oct 30 2018 1:14am

Or 3D print your own adapter.
Please subscribe to my Youtube home page for Quadcopters, FPV and Bike Rides http://www.youtube.com/jbalatutube
My build log here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=55352
For some cool ebike talk join us on The Best ebike https://www.facebook.com/groups/193581737807033/
Tech talk TSDZ2 Opensource firmware viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=150

KD5ZXG   1 W

1 W
Posts: 53
Joined: Jul 13 2018 10:02pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by KD5ZXG » Oct 30 2018 1:31am

I "bought" Sturmey hubs and several things I needed from a seller that took the money and never shipped. My remaining budget for 3D is zilch. Hopefully the CSA trade goes better. Buyers regret over a buck worth of chopsticks, when I could have used twigs from the yard.

mctubster   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Oct 30 2018 5:25am

KD5ZXG wrote:
Oct 24 2018 1:08pm
So, finding some new hope after losing a bunch of money on ripoffs.
I decided was as good a day as any to bang out my bearing cups and
try to fit TSDZ2 on the Electra I had originally intended it for. The
hole through the cups was plenty bigger than 30mm, but the motor
won't clear the bottom edge unless purposely placed not on center.
Hi, sorry to hear of your issues. I 3D printed a PLA SHIM to space out my bottom bracket which was a Dutch non standard size. I printed it solid and it has survived well although almost all load goes against the outside edge of the bottom bracket shell.

It sounds like you have challenges here too, as you don't have enough clearance to center it? Any pics I can look at?

I would be happy to print a SHIM or whatever you need and send to you if you can give me accurate dimensions. It will take a little while to come from down under (AU) though.

Best
Steve

Rydon   10 W

10 W
Posts: 76
Joined: Aug 11 2016 5:26pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Oct 30 2018 9:22pm

KD5ZXG wrote:
Oct 24 2018 1:08pm
So, finding some new hope after losing a bunch of money on ripoffs.
I decided was as good a day as any to bang out my bearing cups and
try to fit TSDZ2 on the Electra I had originally intended it for. The
hole through the cups was plenty bigger than 30mm, but the motor
won't clear the bottom edge unless purposely placed not on center.
These work great. A little pricey though. If you don't want to mess around get these.

https://lunacycle.com/american-style-ec ... a-adapter/

KD5ZXG   1 W

1 W
Posts: 53
Joined: Jul 13 2018 10:02pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by KD5ZXG » Oct 30 2018 11:12pm

Luna shape probably works fine for Bafang. For TSDZ2, you need the green highlighted ring chainside, as shown on Bikewow adaptor. Else BB30 surrounding ridge of TSDZ2 is all that touches (red) an American bottom bracket. Taking side clamping force in a bad way. Red is not a problem with this adaptor, but could be with the Luna.
Bikewow.jpg
Bikewow.jpg (136.48 KiB) Viewed 469 times
If you 3d print something, print the ring separate, to work for both brands. I was just going to fill (JBWeld) my TSDZ2 flat. So it fits like [strikeout]Bafang[/strikeout], and no longer needs the chainside spacer ring. The non-chain side should be flat, ringless in either case.

I don't think you could duplicate these shallow adaptor cups in PLA and not shear the lips off. Need to slightly overfill the entire 68mm width if they are going to support either brand's inside face. To prevent the clamping problem marked in red.
Last edited by KD5ZXG on Oct 31 2018 12:14am, edited 4 times in total.

KD5ZXG   1 W

1 W
Posts: 53
Joined: Jul 13 2018 10:02pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by KD5ZXG » Oct 30 2018 11:50pm

This:
AmericanMisfit.jpg
AmericanMisfit.jpg (34.71 KiB) Viewed 445 times
Correction: Looks like this Bafang may have same problem, wanting same or similar ring. 01,02,HD, none are flat. What made me think they were flat? Better yet, why does Luna (who should definitely know better than I) make adaptors as-if all inside faces were flat???
another misfit.jpg
another misfit.jpg (21.5 KiB) Viewed 442 times
Last edited by KD5ZXG on Oct 31 2018 12:15am, edited 8 times in total.

Rydon   10 W

10 W
Posts: 76
Joined: Aug 11 2016 5:26pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Oct 30 2018 11:57pm

KD5ZXG wrote:
Oct 30 2018 11:12pm
Luna shape probably works fine for Bafang. For TSDZ2, you need the green highlighted ring chainside, as shown on Bikewow adaptor. Else BB30 surrounding ridge of TSDZ2 is all that touches (red) an American bottom bracket. Taking side clamping force in a bad way. Red is not a problem with this adaptor, but could be with the Luna.
All you need are bb spacers to avoid the problem you describe: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50pcs-l ... 11199.html

They are commonly used for chainstay clearance issues with both Bafang and TSDZ2.

I hadn't seen the bikewow version of the adapter. Still pricey.

KD5ZXG   1 W

1 W
Posts: 53
Joined: Jul 13 2018 10:02pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by KD5ZXG » Oct 31 2018 12:29am

A stack of washer rings as you linked (pic shure looks like BB30 and cassette might be same diameter) could work. You say its been done already, so lets say I trust.

OTOH: Looks like Lingbei GP could be the rare exception, not wanting/needing a ring. Some sort of cone shape fits inside BB30 or adaptor
with BB30 size holes. Would probably sit flush on an American bottom bracket.
LingbeiGP.jpg
LingbeiGP.jpg (33 KiB) Viewed 424 times
Enough about others, I have TSDZ2. Just getting one size to rule them all out the way.

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2603
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 31 2018 5:13am

Finally I got Bafang 850C LCD working!!!

I had to buy a logic analyzer and was my first time using it -- always learning :-)

Image

Image

Image

The firmware is here: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... C_firmware
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers and LCD3:
- Unlock and get more power with the TSDZ2 Flexible OpenSource firmware: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://github.com/stancecoke/BMSBatter ... mware/wiki

vscope   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 39
Joined: Jun 19 2018 5:42am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by vscope » Oct 31 2018 5:48am

Very cool hacking!!!!
Where did you buy yours? Just to be sure to have the same Version.
thx
vscope

casainho   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2603
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 31 2018 8:20am

vscope wrote:
Oct 31 2018 5:48am
Very cool hacking!!!!
Where did you buy yours? Just to be sure to have the same Version.
thx
vscope
Here: http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2016-5e-2eaj
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers and LCD3:
- Unlock and get more power with the TSDZ2 Flexible OpenSource firmware: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://github.com/stancecoke/BMSBatter ... mware/wiki

Frankenshtain   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Jul 26 2018 8:39am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Frankenshtain » Oct 31 2018 11:12am

Hi.
Question on custom firmware. Is there anyone here, who has a trottle trigger and it work? Controller with 8 pin cable. Hall sensor connected on: white + 5v, black -ground, orange- signal. When i plug my trigger, motor start on max power. Сable testing does nothing. sorry for my english...

Bartman   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 34
Joined: Feb 11 2018 2:38pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bartman » Oct 31 2018 2:46pm

Thanks to Casainho, Endlesscadence an all who've worked on the new firmware. This has turned a good product, into a great product. what also makes a difference is Lekki Buzz bar offset peddles. I bought a 160mm pair as I couldnt get a 170 black pair in the uk. I fitted them and didn't like them for a start. But after using them for a couple of rides I really like them. The 160mm cranks seem to smooth out the motor even more.

But there are 3 things that would make the TSDZ2 + opensource firmware a fantastic product. These are 1) Fix the latency when pedaling 2) get a walk mode working and 3) fix the resistance when pushing backward with the motor switched on.

I have a Yamaha haibike as well as my TSDZ2 converted bike, and I prefer my TSDZ2 for normal biking and exploring. My sduro I use for more 'serious' all mountain stuff as its a full suspension model.

Keep up the great work.

mctubster   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Oct 31 2018 8:16pm


As someone pointed out - the numbers on the back of the 850C are the best way to tell the difference. There were 3-4 different versions during 2016 to 2017 with different firmware for each. One of the latest mods doubled the memory. The 850C versions and firmware appear to have stabilized since the end of 2017. All of 2018 has been the same firmware. Look for 850C-TFTGDV2.1B60 and 850C-TFTGDV2.1C60 as the latest versions. They both use the same firmware.
Thank you for the information.

I have TFTGDV4A60 V5.2 dated 201709 ... so looks like a earlier version and different line. Selling with my BBS now anyway, so if I get another one for the TDSZ2 I can assume the RTC will work!

And yes the buyer knows the RTC is wonkie :)

mctubster   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Oct 31 2018 8:20pm

Rydon wrote:
Oct 30 2018 9:22pm
KD5ZXG wrote:
Oct 24 2018 1:08pm
So, finding some new hope after losing a bunch of money on ripoffs.
I decided was as good a day as any to bang out my bearing cups and
try to fit TSDZ2 on the Electra I had originally intended it for. The
hole through the cups was plenty bigger than 30mm, but the motor
won't clear the bottom edge unless purposely placed not on center.
These work great. A little pricey though. If you don't want to mess around get these.

https://lunacycle.com/american-style-ec ... a-adapter/
I think I'm missing something here ... To me it looks like these adaptors fit inside the bottom bracket shell. If so how do they transfer the load to the adaptor face if their combined width is not the same or slightly more than the bottom bracket shell?
Last edited by mctubster on Nov 01 2018 12:37am, edited 1 time in total.

mctubster   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Oct 31 2018 9:59pm

Bartman wrote:
Oct 31 2018 2:46pm
what also makes a difference is Lekki Buzz bar offset peddles. I bought a 160mm pair as I couldnt get a 170 black pair in the uk. I fitted them and didn't like them for a start. But after using them for a couple of rides I really like them. The 160mm cranks seem to smooth out the motor even more.
Thanks for the tip re these pedals. I just had a look and it looks like the left pedal has an offset away from the frame? As in it spaces you legs even further apart? I want to bring the right pedal in closer to the frame like the Bafang cranks do. Could you please confirm your experience?

Cheers

mctubster   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Nov 01 2018 12:48am

A really quick but huge thank you to Casainho and Endlesscadence for all of the amazing work that has gone into the opensource firmware project for the TSDZ2. Also a big thank you to jbalat for the youtube videos which helped with my flashing and the wiki documentation updates from sbridger too.

I am running the latest 14.2 firmware and first decent ride today. I will refine and cleanup and add to the wiki documentation with photos once I have push access.

Many thanks again
Steve

Rydon   10 W

10 W
Posts: 76
Joined: Aug 11 2016 5:26pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Nov 01 2018 3:23am

casainho wrote:
Oct 31 2018 5:13am
Finally I got Bafang 850C LCD working!!!
Yay!!! Awesome! Way to go!

I have TSDZ2 working with the 850C already. This will mean only needing to flash the new firmware with same cable setup. Can the 850C be flashed through the 5 pin higo connector or do you need to open it up?

BTW, the 750C display is now shipping with Bluetooth.

Post Reply