New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 01 2018 4:13am

Rydon wrote:
Nov 01 2018 3:23am
casainho wrote:
Oct 31 2018 5:13am
Finally I got Bafang 850C LCD working!!!
Yay!!! Awesome! Way to go!

I have TSDZ2 working with the 850C already. This will mean only needing to flash the new firmware with same cable setup. Can the 850C be flashed through the 5 pin higo connector or do you need to open it up?
Seems that original firmware includes a bootloader, because there is a Windows software provided by the manufacture that flash new firmware by the UART pins/wires that goes to the motor controller. The firmware file that is used to flash seems to be encrypted. I think there is no way to use the original bootloader, the system was designed to be like that, to be locked.

The only way is to do as we do with KT-LCD3, open the LCD, solder flash/debug pins and program/debug using STLinkV2.

I am now in the process to think and define how things/different screens will go to work. Like KT-LCD3, having a main screen and configuration screen. I found and tested some OpenSource libraries for GUIs and I choose the most advanced that I could put to working: https://embeddedlightning.com/ugui/ -- I think original firmware uses a more advanced GUI library, but may be some commercial one.

Now the challenge is to think how the menus can work/should be implemented using the GUI library objects that are kind of simple. I already know that an analog speed meter can be implemented with DrawARC and DrawLine objects...
Rydon wrote:
Nov 01 2018 3:23am
BTW, the 750C display is now shipping with Bluetooth.
Well, the good is that they seem to reuse the same software between models, I can see they use the same graphic elements on the GUI, so the hardware should be very similar if we decide to switch 750C with Bluetooth model. Maybe if we wait a bit more they will launch the 850C with Bluetooth model, as the 850C model is the most popular one.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers and LCD3:
- Unlock and get more power with the TSDZ2 Flexible OpenSource firmware: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://github.com/stancecoke/BMSBatter ... mware/wiki

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 01 2018 6:22am

Your opinion for color LCD screens/design

As I can implement everything, I would like to decide a path. Here are screenshots of different main screens of different original firmwares of Bafang 850C display.

What design do you guys prefer for the main screen??

1.
Image

2.
Image

3.
Image

4.
Image

As for configurations, I should go like this and seems all versions of original firmwares does like this. It is a clear improvement over configurations on KT-LCD3:
Image
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers and LCD3:
- Unlock and get more power with the TSDZ2 Flexible OpenSource firmware: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://github.com/stancecoke/BMSBatter ... mware/wiki

Bash1303   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bash1303 » Nov 01 2018 6:38am

casainho wrote:
Nov 01 2018 6:22am
Your opinion for color LCD screens/design

As I can implement everything, I would like to decide a path. Here are screenshots of different main screens of different original firmwares of Bafang 850C display.

What design do you guys prefer for the main screen??

1.
Image

2.
Image

3.
Image

4.
Image

As for configurations, I should go like this and seems all versions of original firmwares does like this. It is a clear improvement over configurations on KT-LCD3:
Image
Great work Casainho! :D

I think the 3rd option is good. This design has more info however is easier to read than the others.

As for configurations. Your idea Will make it easy and straight forward to manage the settings :thumb:
Last edited by Bash1303 on Nov 01 2018 2:45pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bartman   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bartman » Nov 01 2018 1:03pm

mctubster wrote:
Oct 31 2018 9:59pm
Bartman wrote:
Oct 31 2018 2:46pm
what also makes a difference is Lekki Buzz bar offset peddles. I bought a 160mm pair as I couldnt get a 170 black pair in the uk. I fitted them and didn't like them for a start. But after using them for a couple of rides I really like them. The 160mm cranks seem to smooth out the motor even more.
Thanks for the tip re these pedals. I just had a look and it looks like the left pedal has an offset away from the frame? As in it spaces you legs even further apart? I want to bring the right pedal in closer to the frame like the Bafang cranks do. Could you please confirm your experience?

Cheers


The left pedal has a 18mm offset, but the right has no offset due to the TSDZ2 being offset to the right. The result is that your left foot and right foot are evenly spaced. I'd like to bring the right pedal in by 5mm, but havent found a solution yet.

Bartman   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bartman » Nov 01 2018 1:06pm

casainho wrote:
Nov 01 2018 6:22am
Your opinion for color LCD screens/design

As I can implement everything, I would like to decide a path. Here are screenshots of different main screens of different original firmwares of Bafang 850C display.

What design do you guys prefer for the main screen??

1.
Image

2.
Image

3.
Image

4.
Image

As for configurations, I should go like this and seems all versions of original firmwares does like this. It is a clear improvement over configurations on KT-LCD3:
Image
Brilliant. Option 1 or2 for me, as I don't like the red colour in option 3. Now if option three had green instead of red ......

Rydon   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Nov 01 2018 11:48pm

casainho wrote:
Nov 01 2018 6:22am
Your opinion for color LCD screens/design

What design do you guys prefer for the main screen??
I like 3. 1 looks cool but the assist level and other numbers are too small.

Rafe   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rafe » Nov 02 2018 3:09am

Option 4. I have used then all except Luna. When viewed at home on a computer screen 4 looks the worst but on a moving bike it is the one that is easiest to see and quickly digest the information. That model comes with both a digital which is the mode shown or an analogue graphical display (same as option1) selection option anyway.


It would be a nice touch to be able to programme in our own Logos too.
Last edited by Rafe on Nov 02 2018 10:42am, edited 3 times in total.

andyme   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andyme » Nov 02 2018 5:52am

850 C:

Is my understanding correct, that original FW allows switching between modes 1 and 4? (see attachment)

So in this case I would opt for keeping these options if possible. I think they are good alternatives between a bit more design centered and a bit more information centered displays so that everyone should find himself represented. I personally tend to option 1 e.g.
Attachments
850C Specifications.PDF
(767.22 KiB) Downloaded 14 times

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 02 2018 6:00am

andyme wrote:
Nov 02 2018 5:52am
850 C:

Is my understanding correct, that original FW allows switching between modes 1 and 4? (see attachment)

So in this case I would opt for keeping these options if possible. I think they are good alternatives between a bit more design centered and a bit more information centered displays so that everyone should find himself represented. I personally tend to option 1 e.g.
I tested 2 different original firmwares, just one had both analog and digital modes implemented, other one says on manual that will be a future implementation. Maybe I will start with analog because I need something quick to implement but later we should go also for an analog we like. I wish we could get the help from a designer...
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers and LCD3:
- Unlock and get more power with the TSDZ2 Flexible OpenSource firmware: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://github.com/stancecoke/BMSBatter ... mware/wiki

dameri   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Nov 02 2018 9:26am

Number 4. Big letters / numbers are good when driving.

mctubster   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Nov 02 2018 11:28pm

casainho wrote:
Nov 01 2018 6:22am
Your opinion for color LCD screens/design

As I can implement everything, I would like to decide a path. Here are screenshots of different main screens of different original firmwares of Bafang 850C display.
I have had a 850c on a Bafang for 9 months and used display 1 and 4. I prefer the style of display 1 because it feels cleaner although I question the circular graphic, it adds to to design but doesn't do anything meaningful.

I would like to table the Garmin style display too, on their larger cycling computers they give you layout options, eg 5 items with 1 large and 4 small or 6 small items or 8 smaller items for example. The great thing about this is that you choose each data point that is displayed, they are almost all numeric (imho almost all graphical displays require a higher cognitive load then reading a number)

I will mock something up this weekend as an example

mctubster   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Nov 02 2018 11:36pm

Some more feedback on the opensource firmware.

Have completed 80KM of commuting on the open source firmware. Wow! - at 33V (ie battery has 20% energy left) the motor is still able to provide 400W of assistance at 60RPM and even 300W at 80RPM!! On my Bafang at 33V no meaningful power at over 50RPM and even the original TSDZ2 at lower voltages was woeful.

Also at higher battery voltages I can spin up to 90-95RPM and still get good power when the battery is above 36V.

Finally the firmware responds how I would expect ... eg I am riding at a steady state pulling stay 200W, if I accelerate hard and take the RPM from 70RPM to 90RPM the motor gives me more power as I accelerate - what you would expect, but not what the original firmware did.

Congrats again for such an improvement over the original firmware

andyme   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andyme » Nov 03 2018 7:54am

@casainho re. KT-LCD8H

I had ordered one before you started investigating publicly on color LCDs...it now arrived...it is not possible to adapt the code from LCD 3 to LCD 8H in a very simple manner? they are probably very similar, arent they?
just asking...

jeanl   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeanl » Nov 03 2018 10:27am

matte2k wrote:
Oct 24 2018 2:13am
my engine start to behave very strange, sometimes, like every 10th second or so, the engine work for a second even if I do not put force on the pedals, I just coasting and it behave like I put force...

sometimes also when I park the bike and just move the wheel some centimeters it could start. scary when the bike is driving by itself....
any idea? should I change the cable and the magnet on the back wheel? everything looks fine when I am checking the cables.
The very same problem happened to me. The bike would lurch forward unexpectedly, when parking for example...
Sadly I had to send it back (to David, but I bought mine straight from China) for repair. The problem was the torque sensor and I don't know there's anything you can do other than change it. The problem happened to me after just a couple months of using the motor.

Incidentally, the new torque sensor broke on me (different symptoms though, assist completely disappeared) after another couple months of light use. This could be bad luck but I doubt it...
Jean

maximusdm   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by maximusdm » Nov 03 2018 12:47pm

aja wrote:
Oct 14 2018 1:41pm
Can someone please help me; I've tried connecting the ST Link to the Speed sensor on the TSDZ2 to flash the firmware to the motor but whatever I do, I get the same Swim comms error; started with cables inc connectors at 9cm and cut them down to 5cm...still doesn't work; spent the whole weekend creating cables then soldering and re-soldering t different lengths; nothings worked. I do have a speed sensor cable but don't want to cut it up if I get the same result as I've followed JB's and Casainho and indeed Eco ebikes instructions but to no avail. :(
I've flashed the 0.14 hex file to the LCD3 without a problem.
Today I manged to use cable. The problem was the STLNK clone. I bought a new one and works even with USB extender. Hope it helps you.
I really wish I knew this 1 month ago since it would have saved me a lot of problems!

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 03 2018 4:13pm

andyme wrote:
Nov 03 2018 7:54am
@casainho re. KT-LCD8H

I had ordered one before you started investigating publicly on color LCDs...it now arrived...it is not possible to adapt the code from LCD 3 to LCD 8H in a very simple manner? they are probably very similar, arent they?
just asking...
They are very different. I prefer Bafang 850C over LCD8 because it has a clock to show time and has a USB charger.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers and LCD3:
- Unlock and get more power with the TSDZ2 Flexible OpenSource firmware: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://github.com/stancecoke/BMSBatter ... mware/wiki

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gaber   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by gaber » Nov 04 2018 10:07am

Daylight savings = lighting question. What are you guys doing for lights? I'd like decently bright lights, but would also like to utilize the simplicity of the build in VLCD5 light button/output wire (it's on our cargo bike which is mainly ridden by my wife). Would love to get input on some thoughts...

1. Are there 6v ebike lights that give decent "see me" brightness? I have a bright battery powered headlight on can throw on in a pinch...don't need a $100 motorcycle quality beam on this bike. This would be the simplest approach.
2. If not #1, could I wire brighter lights direct into the 52v battery (or utilize a DC-DC converter, not scared of some DIY) and use the 6v output in the setup as a light switch? Could even add an arduino to the setup if needed. I would imagine this is possible someway.

TIY!
Gabe
sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

EndlessCadence   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by EndlessCadence » Nov 04 2018 2:27pm

gaber wrote:
Nov 04 2018 10:07am
Daylight savings = lighting question. What are you guys doing for lights? I'd like decently bright lights, but would also like to utilize the simplicity of the build in VLCD5 light button/output wire (it's on our cargo bike which is mainly ridden by my wife). Would love to get input on some thoughts...

1. Are there 6v ebike lights that give decent "see me" brightness? I have a bright battery powered headlight on can throw on in a pinch...don't need a $100 motorcycle quality beam on this bike. This would be the simplest approach.
2. If not #1, could I wire brighter lights direct into the 52v battery (or utilize a DC-DC converter, not scared of some DIY) and use the 6v output in the setup as a light switch? Could even add an arduino to the setup if needed. I would imagine this is possible someway.

TIY!
Gabe
Hi Gabe,

1. I'm using a very good headlight which was originally designed by Philips. I'm also using lights from Busch&Muller and Supernova. All fantastic lights with a nice cutoff and optics to prevent blinding others.
2. Yes you can and I would advise you to look into this first before going the 6V route. The 6V solution has several drawbacks:
- The TSDZ2 can't deliver enough current for a serious bike light. I have 3W and 4W lights which aren't floodlights of course but they still activate the thermal protection of the TSDZ2 light output driver. In my opinion, the light output of the TSDZ2 is useless.
- You need a DC-DC converter if you want to power 6V headlights from your battery and use the TSDZ2 light output as switch. I'm doing this because I had the 6V lights already.

See my previous posts about this topic:
EndlessCadence wrote:
Oct 13 2018 1:52pm
EndlessCadence wrote:
Oct 10 2018 2:59pm
...
I've now also ordered this power control board because it is very small, can switch my battery voltage and should handle the load well. Although it's a logic level MOSFET, 6V control voltage shouldn't be a problem I think.

Should receive it very soon, will let you guys know!

The MOSFET is also really cheap on aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-lo ... 35967.html
My lights are working with the MOSFET above and this DC-DC converter: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-24V- ... 23315.html

The lights turn on perfect and the motor keeps assisting while the lights are on. Nothing runs hot or even warm. But, the lights don't turn off until I switch off battery power. I must have some phantom power somewhere or the TSDZ2 light output has a buffer (capacitor) and the MOSFET wasn't drawing enough current to empty the buffer during my test. Should be able to fix this soon, will review the firmware as well. I'll post some pictures and a guide soon!
The issue with the light not turning off isn't resolved yet. Maybe the resistor needs a lower value than the current 10k ohm. I don't have a disassembled TSDZ2 controller here so I can't check the light output circuit. Does anyone have more information?

I have quickly drawn a schematic without the DC-DC converter:

Image

Make sure to protect your battery by adding a fuse, I forgot this in the schematic :wink:

And some pictures while assembling the Sparkfun kit:
Image

Image

Because it's so small I can easily mount it into my battery cradle, to give you an idea (No mosfet in this picture. The blue part is a solid state relay which I was experimenting with, didn't work at all) :

Image

This is the best light switch option in my opinion. It doesn't run warm at all, wide voltage range, is able to drive enough current, low cost, very small and uses almost no power.

casainho   100 MW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 04 2018 2:29pm

EndlessCadence wrote:
Nov 04 2018 2:27pm
gaber wrote:
Nov 04 2018 10:07am
Daylight savings = lighting question. What are you guys doing for lights? I'd like decently bright lights, but would also like to utilize the simplicity of the build in VLCD5 light button/output wire (it's on our cargo bike which is mainly ridden by my wife). Would love to get input on some thoughts...

1. Are there 6v ebike lights that give decent "see me" brightness? I have a bright battery powered headlight on can throw on in a pinch...don't need a $100 motorcycle quality beam on this bike. This would be the simplest approach.
2. If not #1, could I wire brighter lights direct into the 52v battery (or utilize a DC-DC converter, not scared of some DIY) and use the 6v output in the setup as a light switch? Could even add an arduino to the setup if needed. I would imagine this is possible someway.

TIY!
Gabe
Hi Gabe,

1. I'm using a very good headlight which was originally designed by Philips. I'm also using lights from Busch&Muller and Supernova. All fantastic lights with a nice cutoff and optics to prevent blinding others.
2. Yes you can and I would advise you to look into this first before going the 6V route. The 6V solution has several drawbacks:
- The TSDZ2 can't deliver enough current for a serious bike light. I have 3W and 4W lights which aren't floodlights of course but they still activate the thermal protection of the TSDZ2 light output driver. In my opinion, the light output of the TSDZ2 is useless.
- You need a DC-DC converter if you want to power 6V headlights from your battery and use the TSDZ2 light output as switch. I'm doing this because I had the 6V lights already.

See my previous posts about this topic:
EndlessCadence wrote:
Oct 13 2018 1:52pm
EndlessCadence wrote:
Oct 10 2018 2:59pm
...
I've now also ordered this power control board because it is very small, can switch my battery voltage and should handle the load well. Although it's a logic level MOSFET, 6V control voltage shouldn't be a problem I think.

Should receive it very soon, will let you guys know!

The MOSFET is also really cheap on aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-lo ... 35967.html
My lights are working with the MOSFET above and this DC-DC converter: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-24V- ... 23315.html

The lights turn on perfect and the motor keeps assisting while the lights are on. Nothing runs hot or even warm. But, the lights don't turn off until I switch off battery power. I must have some phantom power somewhere or the TSDZ2 light output has a buffer (capacitor) and the MOSFET wasn't drawing enough current to empty the buffer during my test. Should be able to fix this soon, will review the firmware as well. I'll post some pictures and a guide soon!
The issue with the light not turning off isn't resolved yet. Maybe the resistor needs a lower value than the current 10k ohm. I don't have a disassembled TSDZ2 controller here so I can't check the light output circuit. Does anyone have more information?

I have quickly drawn a schematic without the DC-DC converter:

Image

Make sure to protect your battery by adding a fuse, I forgot this in the schematic :wink:

And some pictures while assembling the Sparkfun kit:
Image

Image

Because it's so small I can easily mount it into my battery cradle, to give you an idea (No mosfet in this picture. The blue part is a solid state relay which I was experimenting with, didn't work at all) :

Image

This is the best light switch option in my opinion. It doesn't run warm at all, wide voltage range, is able to drive enough current, low cost, very small and uses almost no power.
Please share on wiki!!
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers and LCD3:
- Unlock and get more power with the TSDZ2 Flexible OpenSource firmware: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... _wiki/wiki
- Kunteng/BMSBattery VLR FOC motor controller: https://github.com/stancecoke/BMSBatter ... mware/wiki

Rydon   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Nov 04 2018 9:47pm

EndlessCadence wrote:
Nov 04 2018 2:27pm

I have quickly drawn a schematic without the DC-DC converter:

Image

Because it's so small I can easily mount it into my battery cradle, to give you an idea (No mosfet in this picture. The blue part is a solid state relay which I was experimenting with, didn't work at all) :

Image
Great post EC! I have been experimenting with this with mixed results too. Am also working on getting everything into the Hailong I battery case as well. I have ordered in a bunch of dc-dc step-down converters that will fit inside and will test them as they come in. As you know the one you are using will not. Haven't tried the mosfet approach so I will be watching. I had bad experiences with solid state relays stuck closed as well but was thinking I may have had the load on the wrong side. Have had better luck with mechanical relays but good ones are pricey. You would think this would be a piece of cake.

Rydon   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Nov 04 2018 9:52pm

Rafe wrote:
Nov 02 2018 3:09am
Option 4. I have used then all except Luna. When viewed at home on a computer screen 4 looks the worst but on a moving bike it is the one that is easiest to see and quickly digest the information. That model comes with both a digital which is the mode shown or an analogue graphical display (same as option1) selection option anyway.
I agree completely. Anyone that rides without their glasses or has vision problems will prefer 4. I like 3 because it looks good and the assist level is much bigger font than 1.
Rafe wrote:
Nov 02 2018 3:09am
It would be a nice touch to be able to programme in our own Logos too.
Yes!!! I do this on the 850C already. It is a nice touch to be able to personalize or brand the display.

elem   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by elem » Nov 05 2018 11:59am

https://elementaire01.blogspot.com/2018 ... cours.html
some frame modifications for integration ...

Sorry it s in french ...

Image

36T with a 11/40 K7

jeanl   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeanl » Nov 05 2018 12:06pm

elem wrote:
Nov 05 2018 11:59am
https://elementaire01.blogspot.com/2018 ... cours.html
some frame modifications for integration ...

Sorry it s in french ...

Image

36T with a 11/40 K7
Nicely done! The offset problem is a bitch to solve in my experience...

andyme   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andyme » Nov 05 2018 12:22pm

jeanl wrote:
Nov 05 2018 12:06pm
elem wrote:
Nov 05 2018 11:59am
https://elementaire01.blogspot.com/2018 ... cours.html
some frame modifications for integration ...

Sorry it s in french ...

Image

36T with a 11/40 K7
Nicely done! The offset problem is a bitch to solve in my experience...
Sorry for bragging a bit... :lol:

Was a hell of a job and i cannot recommend to do it. But I am happy I did...
Attachments
20181105_181150~01.jpeg
20181105_181138~01.jpg

jeanl   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeanl » Nov 05 2018 12:28pm

elem wrote:
Nov 05 2018 11:59am
https://elementaire01.blogspot.com/2018 ... cours.html
some frame modifications for integration ...

Sorry for bragging a bit... :lol:

Was a hell of a job and i cannot recommend to do it. But I am happy I did...
Well, I have alignment envy now!!! My chain isn't close to being aligned the way it should be...

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