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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 12 2019 7:17pm
by bacman
Hi,
could you recommend me TDSZ2 motor for MTB? Which should I choose, is there a difference in freewheel clutches inside of the motor? Can I backpedal with TDSZ2 without "coast/foot brake function"? I am confused :lol:

EU No Tax 36V250W or 36V350W TSDZ2 mid drive motor with torque sensor and coast/foot brake function
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-8z-qcpg

EU No Tax 36V250W /36V350W TSDZ2 mid drive motor with torque sensor throttle e-brake lever
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-4t-hkfj

Also how can I tell if the motor has the connector for firmware changes?

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 12 2019 7:23pm
by raylo32
TSDZ2 has a clutch/freewheel built in to the motor so, yes, you can stop pedaling or back pedal whenever you want, just like a regular bike.
bacman wrote:
Mar 12 2019 7:17pm
Hi,
could you recommend me TDSZ2 motor for MTB? Which should I choose, is there a difference in freewheel clutches inside of the motor? Can I backpedal with TDSZ2 without "coast/foot brake function"? I am confused :lol:

EU No Tax 36V250W or 36V350W TSDZ2 mid drive motor with torque sensor and coast/foot brake function
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-8z-qcpg

EU No Tax 36V250W /36V350W TSDZ2 mid drive motor with torque sensor throttle e-brake lever
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2018-4t-hkfj

Also how can I tell if the motor has the connector for firmware changes?

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 12 2019 9:48pm
by Rydon
la8rat wrote:
Mar 12 2019 3:28pm
Regarding my problem.

As a vaper i have a bit of knowledge about heating coils and ohms law.

Im going to build a 5 ohms resistance coil that at 50 volts will draw 10 amps and 500 watts. Figure 6 inch of clapton wire will be in the ballpark.

Ill monitor it till im down to 48 volts. Then see if it works.

If for any reason this is an awful idea please let me know.

Should think a few minutes should be enough.
This will work. All you need is a load. You can use an AC or DC heating coil or any incandescent light bulb. I use a 200W to do the same thing. You may need to take it down to 42 volts before the 36v motor will start working. Then you may only have one volt down to 41v before your BMS LVC cuts the battery off. But at least you will know if it works.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 12 2019 11:36pm
by la8rat
Thanks everyone

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 13 2019 12:46am
by mctubster
la8rat wrote:
Mar 12 2019 4:28pm
Id be happy to buy a controller thats been flashed and has the correct connector on it (6 pin)
By the time ive read pages of info and wrapped my head around it all to the point where i can make it work.. i could have done a few hours overtime and paid someone to do one for me.

Might seem lazy but the amout of time ive wasted learning something i use one time is shocking..
Unfortunately it's the motor that needs to be flashed. The website that was linked had a pretty good looking flashing kit, and it really is 10 mins to setup and flash the motor with what is included.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 13 2019 1:19pm
by Mike-P
la8rat wrote:
Mar 12 2019 4:28pm
Id be happy to buy a controller thats been flashed and has the correct connector on it (6 pin)
By the time ive read pages of info and wrapped my head around it all to the point where i can make it work.. i could have done a few hours overtime and paid someone to do one for me.
Have a look at the youtube videos on it by jbalatutube starting at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj8GxKHut3o, some parts irrelevant if you get a display with correct lead on it and the correct programming leads from Electrify Bike. Tempted but as far as I can make out the firmware does not support a front light currently.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 13 2019 1:25pm
by la8rat
Just had my first powered ride.. im more than impressed with how it pulls up hills. Only had time for a quick play.
Battery started out at 53.8 volts. I used a 5 ohm vape wire to knock it down bit by bit.
At 45.5v the walk mode worked intermittently for a little bit but battery recovered to 46.5 volts.
Took it down to 44.7v and bingo.. all fully working.

Will definitely have to flash the motor. Is that a seperate thing to the flashed controller?

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 13 2019 1:38pm
by raylo32
For stock display you just flash the motor.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 13 2019 7:07pm
by sysrq
la8rat wrote:
Mar 13 2019 1:25pm
Just had my first powered ride.. im more than impressed with how it pulls up hills. Only had time for a quick play.
Battery started out at 53.8 volts. I used a 5 ohm vape wire to knock it down bit by bit.
At 45.5v the walk mode worked intermittently for a little bit but battery recovered to 46.5 volts.
Took it down to 44.7v and bingo.. all fully working.

Will definitely have to flash the motor. Is that a seperate thing to the flashed controller?
Mine 36 volt version kinda pulls up the small hills using 42t x 28t gearing only with fresh battery and in turbo mode only. If the battery is around 80% or more then the battery level indicator on xh-18 display starts to intermitently sag and motor is struggling. Might be due to CYCBT battery with it's Samsung LiFePO4 cells as they say on the cardboard box, although Samsung is not known for making LiFePO4 cells.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 13 2019 11:20pm
by la8rat
Yours is very high geared. Is it just a single speed rear or is 28t your biggest cog on rear cassette?
I swapped my 42t chain ring to a 38t narrow wide and my biggest cog on back is 36t

I can ride up the same hill with power off but it flys up with it on. Im on 26inch wheels as well so mine is a lot lower geared than yours.

I think its important to try to give the motor best gearing you can.. but im coming at this as a mountain biker with blown knees. Id rather spin a bit faster on the peddles.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 2:04am
by mctubster
sysrq wrote:
Mar 13 2019 7:07pm

Mine 36 volt version kinda pulls up the small hills using 42t x 28t gearing only with fresh battery and in turbo mode only. If the battery is around 80% or more then the battery level indicator on xh-18 display starts to intermitently sag and motor is struggling. Might be due to CYCBT battery with it's Samsung LiFePO4 cells as they say on the cardboard box, although Samsung is not known for making LiFePO4 cells.
The 36V motor stock puts out 500-550W in its sweet spot ... say 60-80RPM with a full battery.

If you are running under 60 RPM you will be losing higher amounts of power to heat. It is only a little motor it needs to spin.

Other than that it is expectations management given the size of the motor (which is small). It is assist not a pedelec style with higher torque at lower RPMs like the Bafang BBS02.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 3:14am
by James Broadhurst
Mike-P wrote:
Mar 13 2019 1:19pm
Tempted but as far as I can make out the firmware does not support a front light currently.
It does. Press up button.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 1:09pm
by sysrq
la8rat wrote:
Mar 13 2019 11:20pm
Yours is very high geared. Is it just a single speed rear or is 28t your biggest cog on rear cassette?
I swapped my 42t chain ring to a 38t narrow wide and my biggest cog on back is 36t

I can ride up the same hill with power off but it flys up with it on. Im on 26inch wheels as well so mine is a lot lower geared than yours.

I think its important to try to give the motor best gearing you can.. but im coming at this as a mountain biker with blown knees. Id rather spin a bit faster on the peddles.
If it has 28 inch wheels and 42t chainring and Shimano 7 Speed Freewheel 14-28t then it's probably geared high. High cadence doesn't work on tsdz2 anyway.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 3:40pm
by el_proletario
Has anyone try to use the coaster brake version on a freewheel bike ? I'm planning to buy a hybrid bike with regular derailleur, a Btwin Riverside 120,when my motor is back from repair center.
The chain would move backwards ocasionally but that wouldn't be a problem right ?

Otherwise is there any way to convert it for good to freewheel?

Thanks guys.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 3:57pm
by Rydon
el_proletario wrote:
Mar 14 2019 3:40pm
Has anyone try to use the coaster brake version on a freewheel bike ? I'm planning to buy a hybrid bike with regular derailleur, a Btwin Riverside 120,when my motor is back from repair center.
The chain would move backwards ocasionally but that wouldn't be a problem right ?

Otherwise is there any way to convert it for good to freewheel?

Thanks guys.
It will work fine. Just like a regular bike it will freewheel at the rear hub and not the cranks. With no freewheel at the cranks you cannot have throttle, walk assist, or cruise control

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 4:00pm
by Mike-P
James Broadhurst wrote:
Mar 14 2019 3:14am
Mike-P wrote:
Mar 13 2019 1:19pm
Tempted but as far as I can make out the firmware does not support a front light currently.
It does. Press up button.
Thanks for the info -is the rear light worked by the down button then? The one annoyance I find with the VLCD-5 is the lights being worked by the power on off button and consequently its seems too easy to switch off when wanting to switch the lights on.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 4:10pm
by casainho
Mike-P wrote:
Mar 14 2019 4:00pm
James Broadhurst wrote:
Mar 14 2019 3:14am
Mike-P wrote:
Mar 13 2019 1:19pm
Tempted but as far as I can make out the firmware does not support a front light currently.
It does. Press up button.
Thanks for the info -is the rear light worked by the down button then? The one annoyance I find with the VLCD-5 is the lights being worked by the power on off button and consequently its seems too easy to switch off when wanting to switch the light on.
Our flexible OpenSource firmware had an issue with lights but it is now corrected and tested by some users (they found and solved the issue, thanks to them!!). But the correction to the issue is very recent and the latest stable version does not include it, so I need to plan and make a new version...

To turn on/off the lights, user must do a long press on the LCD3 up button.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 5:12pm
by la8rat
If i just want to run my 36v motor on 48v batteries

Is there any difference between flashing the open source firmware to the motor or flashing the stock 48v firmware to the motor?

My controller is the vlcd6.. motor 500w

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 5:50pm
by andrea_104kg
any ideas to cool the engine? I installed a thermometer and after an off-road ride I read 102 ° ... To go home I did 4km of asphalt climbs and I got 86 ° (not over 600w) . The ambience temperature was only 10 °, when spring comes it will be impossible to use the bicycle :( :( i weight 104kg :-(
It is useless to limit the current, 80 ° can be reached immediately, I live in a mountain area :-(

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 6:00pm
by casainho
andrea_104kg wrote:
Mar 14 2019 5:50pm
any ideas to cool the engine? I installed a thermometer and after an off-road ride I read 102 ° ... To go home I did 4km of asphalt climbs and I got 86 ° (not over 600w) . The ambience temperature was only 10 °, when spring comes it will be impossible to use the bicycle :( :( i weight 104kg :-(
It is useless to limit the current, 80 ° can be reached immediately, I live in a mountain area :-(
I weight 101 kg and I do mountain climbing and I installed the temperature sensor and our firmware controls very well the max motor temperature.

80 degrees can't be reached immediately, I am sure you did measure something wrong.

It is not useless to control the current, it is in fact the only source for motor temperature raise!! That is why our firmware control the current when motor max temperature hits the limit and it is very effective.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 6:24pm
by andrea_104kg
the only thing is that the thermometer is broken, but it correctly reads the room temperature and also the body temperature. During the test I touched the body of the engine and I could hardly hold my hand, I think over 55 °, inside obviously the temperature is much higher. Unfortunately, in my hills, a 2 km climb is enough to reach and exceed 80 ° unless the sensor is broken ...
it is useless to control the current because I should do the whole tour with reduced power, since after 2km I am already above 80°, and with only 10° of ambience temperature :-(

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 7:48pm
by casainho
andrea_104kg wrote:
Mar 14 2019 6:24pm
the only thing is that the thermometer is broken, but it correctly reads the room temperature and also the body temperature. During the test I touched the body of the engine and I could hardly hold my hand, I think over 55 °, inside obviously the temperature is much higher. Unfortunately, in my hills, a 2 km climb is enough to reach and exceed 80 ° unless the sensor is broken ...
it is useless to control the current because I should do the whole tour with reduced power, since after 2km I am already above 80°, and with only 10° of ambience temperature :-(
If you limit the current to around 10 amps, the motor may not reach the 85 degrees -- this is my experience.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 14 2019 8:36pm
by mctubster
andrea_104kg wrote:
Mar 14 2019 6:24pm
the only thing is that the thermometer is broken, but it correctly reads the room temperature and also the body temperature. During the test I touched the body of the engine and I could hardly hold my hand, I think over 55 °, inside obviously the temperature is much higher. Unfortunately, in my hills, a 2 km climb is enough to reach and exceed 80 ° unless the sensor is broken ...
it is useless to control the current because I should do the whole tour with reduced power, since after 2km I am already above 80°, and with only 10° of ambience temperature :-(
Hi there.

I made this comment in an earlier post ... the motor is only small and not designed to run at high power other than short bursts.
Look at the size of it! If you are smashing up hills at the current/power limit yes it will overheat quickly.

Lower gears, higher cadence and lower speeds will solve the problem of course.

On high levels of assist you are not gaining much from the torque sensor and might as well go for a PAS motor that can handle your expectations better like the Bafang BBS02 or HD.

All the best

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 15 2019 2:20am
by andrea_104kg
the problem for me is very serious, because it also occurs on the road at only 10 degrees of ambient temperature. the speed was around 9-11 km / h I could decrease the assistance but then I am very slow and probably when the temperature goes above 20 degrees even this will not be enough. it also prevents you from taking any rides in the company of other cyclists.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 15 2019 2:54am
by casainho
andrea_104kg wrote:
Mar 15 2019 2:20am
the problem for me is very serious, because it also occurs on the road at only 10 degrees of ambient temperature. the speed was around 9-11 km / h I could decrease the assistance but then I am very slow and probably when the temperature goes above 20 degrees even this will not be enough. it also prevents you from taking any rides in the company of other cyclists.
As me, other users had installed the motor temperature sensor and say that after 10 amps the motor gets hot near the limit.

10 amps at 52V battery pack is 500W and 500W is plenty of power unless you are not pedaling and all and using incorrect gears and then you would feel the need to use the 750W of power...

Also, when you say "it also prevents you from taking any rides in the company of other cyclists.", you must be wrong as any cyclist can't sustain 500W!!
Probably you can output about 150W continuous while the TSDZ2 can do the 500W continuous, that is 3 times more!!