New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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andrea_104kg   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andrea_104kg » Mar 17 2019 4:43pm

Another info. This is the temperature of the motor and the cover when the termometer signs 83° celsius. I think the best it is to fill the air space whith aluminium but it's very difficult to do.
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temp15.jpg
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temp16.jpg
temp16.jpg (34.27 KiB) Viewed 1524 times

sysrq   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Mar 17 2019 8:05pm

tomtom50 wrote:
Mar 17 2019 11:47am
thineight wrote:
Mar 17 2019 10:39am
What is, in your experience of fried motors and temperature readings, the safe Amperage we can set for the TSDZ2 in order to keep the temperature under acceptable limits?
I've actually set 16A (with 36v means about 500w) and does not seem the motor heats up much. I use low gears when climbing, such as 30T chain wheel and 34 at the back, and I keep "cycling speed".. so I think I keep the motor in a good range but I would ask your valuable opinion on the matter.
Thanks
Unfortunately it isn't so simple as safe / unsafe amperage. Motor temperature is commonly controlled by watching I2t (Current squared with duration factored in).
http://doc.ingeniamc.com/emcl2/command- ... protection

This type of watchdog function is built into industrial motor controllers. It isn't built into general purpose ebike controllers or the TSDZ2 (who knows, maybe integrated systems like Bosch or Shimano fold it in).

Long story short sustained high amperage can toast your motor where short bursts won't. So climbing a hill for five minutes at 18A might be fine where climbing a pass at 18A will Kil the motor.

And sustaining 32 mph for half an hour on the flat? I wouldn't do it without a temp sensor.
Once had to ride 22 mph (35 km/h) on the flat for two hours with ambient temperature around 5-8 degrees Celsius, can't remember motor being hot or anything.

la8rat   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by la8rat » Mar 17 2019 9:54pm

Rydon wrote:
Mar 17 2019 2:44am
la8rat wrote:
Mar 16 2019 9:43am
could someone please explain to me in plain english if i can just flash my tsdz2 36v motor 500w so it will run 48v batteries.

im happy with my controller (vlcd6)

every answer or thing ive read keeps talking about screen options and such.

i dont think it helps that the motor controller and the thing on the handle bars are both called controllers.

do i flash the open source firmware or the stock 48v firmwear?

i have a ts link a soldering iron and im willing to open up my speed sensor cable to make a flashing lead.

the big question is will this work with my totally standard vlcd6

am i going to flash the motor and then it not work because i need the ktlcd3 to make changes to the voltage or some other thing?

Edit

Started reading up on marqoc's version of the open source motor firmware specifically for the vlcd6

Looks very promising. :)
First of all the thing on your handlebars is a display, not a controller. It has a microcontroller in it but that is just a small dedicated CPU.
The easiest way to use a 48v battery with a 36v TSDZ2 is to flash the TSDZ2 controller with 48v OEM firmware available here.

The other way to keep your VLCD6 display is to use the Marcoq version as you are investigating. This is more difficult to flash because you must set up a complete development environment to compile the firmware instead of just flashing precompiled firmware with the STLINK as you do with the OEM firmware or the FOS firmware with the KT-LCD3. I hope that was clear. :)
Yes was clear enough thanks rydon .. i did want a link to stock 48v firmware so thats much appreciated. :)

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Battery Powered Lights Controlled by Display - 100mm TSDZ2

Post by eyebyesickle » Mar 18 2019 4:47am

Back to riding a little bit after an injury had me limiting my activities for quite a while!!! I've been working on a few things for the TSDZ2... Displays, cables to pair with temp sensor usage, and a few short videos, showing things like torque sensor diagnostics etc... I'll have some of those up soon to share...

Anyway, check this out! It's simple enough, but I'm pretty excited to be able to run high power lights directly from the motor and controlled by the display! I'm always looking to squeeze any slick upgrade in that I can, but this is very useful in particular to me to avoid potholes etc! I got a slick way to mount light bars that I worked up too... I'll share some more info on everything soon, I just had to show this though...

Have fun out there guys... Stay safe!

Last edited by eyebyesickle on Mar 19 2019 12:35am, edited 1 time in total.

AZUR   100 W

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Re: Battery Powered Lights Controlled by Display - 120mm TSDZ2

Post by AZUR » Mar 18 2019 3:58pm

eyebyesickle wrote:
Mar 18 2019 4:47am
Back to riding a little bit after an injury had me limiting my activities for quite a while!!! I've been working on a few things for the TSDZ2... Displays, cables to pair with temp sensor usage, and a few short videos, showing things like torque sensor diagnostics etc... I'll have some of those up soon to share...

Anyway, check this out! It's simple enough, but I'm pretty excited to be able to run high power lights directly from the motor and controlled by the display! I'm always looking to squeeze any slick upgrade in that I can, but this is very useful in particular to me to avoid potholes etc! I got a slick way to mount light bars that I worked up too... I'll share some more info on everything soon, I just had to show this though...

Have fun out there guys... Stay safe!

Can you tell me please where can I buy the light?

Thanks

salix27   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by salix27 » Mar 18 2019 10:24pm

If I were to connect the stlink v2 directly to the tsdz2 motor wires (8 wire version), which colors do I need to match up? I did not not have a speed sensor extension to make a programing cable so I started cutting. I regret it but am moving forward. I'm a beginner thanks.

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Mar 18 2019 11:33pm

salix27 wrote:
Mar 18 2019 10:24pm
If I were to connect the stlink v2 directly to the tsdz2 motor wires (8 wire version), which colors do I need to match up? I did not not have a speed sensor extension to make a programing cable so I started cutting. I regret it but am moving forward. I'm a beginner thanks.
The 8 wires are on the display side. You program it from the speed sensor side. The answer to your question is in the wiki on github. People here are happy to help if you get stuck after doing all the necessary reading. You will find instructions for both the KT-LCD3 and the TSDZ2 wiring here.

Rydon   100 W

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Re: Battery Powered Lights Controlled by Display - 120mm TSDZ2

Post by Rydon » Mar 18 2019 11:39pm

eyebyesickle wrote:
Mar 18 2019 4:47am
I got a slick way to mount light bars that I worked up too... I'll share some more info on everything soon, I just had to show this though...

Have fun out there guys... Stay safe!
Can't wait. A number of us have done this but it took a relay and picking up power direct from the battery with a DC to DC converter. Can't see any of that in your video. I am mystified. :?

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Mar 19 2019 12:43am

AZUR - these are light bars I got bulk to accept a wide ranging voltage. First I tried a few purchasing retail, and if you search for 6" light bar on ebay, tons of cheap ones will pop up - be careful though, I tried like 6 types, and almost all of them were no good, either immediately burned out, or were cheap plastic. These are sturdy aluminum housing and reliable,with a wide ranging voltage. If you want one, I will send one to you if you cover postage... otherwise you probably can pickup a similar one on ebay etc... but I would be sure to ask/confirm what the housing material is, and what the acceptable voltage range is. Also they make differnt light patterns, and lenses... tons of them with the same pic, but all of them different when arrived!

Rydon - Yes, this is all internal, nice and tidy - very happy with it! Now if I could just get Tongsheng to make a larger internal motor to replace the current one, so we can run a little bit higher power safely, I would be very happy! Not much more to do with this motor - at least that I can think of! I'll post some more soon, working on setting time aside for some instructionals and troubleshooting videos - it's good to have a creative outlet! :D and I am glad someone recognized no external wiring =) I was pretty happy with myself last night... even if I did burn up a couple parts trying to get that sorted late night! Ha

Retrorockit   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Mar 19 2019 10:05am

Image
Some one asked for a photo of my double offset 44T chainring. I put it up at Electricbike.com a couple times but they keep taking it down. Maybe Luna is planning to offer something similar.
ImageImage
Here are couple of how close the chain is @ 47mm and Wippermann 1E8 chain, and what a Trek Navigator 400 looks like.
I got a BV 2 leg center stand mounted. Both legs stow to the left side. I had to remove the motor torque mount and swing the motor forward like the rear suspension guys do. Just 1mm clearance front and rear with the stand deployed. The rear wheel is off the ground and you can fully rotate the cranks with this stand. Since it holds the bike in a balanced position it even works on grass.

hefest   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hefest » Mar 19 2019 10:43am

I'm looking through the thread for grease to use for regreasing.
Someone mentioned that factory is recommending MOLYKOTE™ EM-50L which has the following specs:

Base Oil Viscosity: 1050 @ 40°C
NLGI Grade: 1
Thickener: Lithium
High Temp: 150°C
Low Temp: -40°C
Chemistry: Polyalphaolefin (PAO)

I'm trying to find similar "plastic friendly" grease in Europe with no luck so far.
Main problem is the viscosity, highest i could find is 500mm2/s.
Any recommendations?

ri53hu   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ri53hu » Mar 22 2019 8:02am


la8rat   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by la8rat » Mar 22 2019 6:26pm

had a good few days pottering on my bike build and things are looking good

have the stm8editor software up and running with the drivers. and downloaded all the stock firmware variants. the videos make much more sense when you have the real thing to play with.

i had a bit of an epiphany concerning the connecting of the st link to the speed sensor cable. ive found some really small scotch locks on ebay for splicing wires into other wires. these are for wires .25mm squared in cross section so hope the will be a nice neat way of splicing into the connector without the need to solder. £2 delivered. hope they actually work.

i have a small triangle battery thats for short rides that fits nicely into a triangle frame bag. the bigger battery dolphin style has been a pain to fit though.

the cage mount holes were way to low on the frame so ive drilled the holes i need higher up but was concerned that a tapped thread would be very weak due to thickness of the down tube.
guy at work suggested motorbike windscreen bolts. seriously thats what they are called.. its like a rubber rivet or a raw plug for metal. pop it in the drilled hole and as you tighten the battery mount on the thing swells inside the downtube as the screw turns.

oh and my new forks should arrive tomorrow :)

Rydon   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Mar 22 2019 11:41pm

la8rat wrote:
Mar 22 2019 6:26pm
i have a small triangle battery thats for short rides that fits nicely into a triangle frame bag. the bigger battery dolphin style has been a pain to fit though.
the cage mount holes were way to low on the frame so ive drilled the holes i need higher up but was concerned that a tapped thread would be very weak due to thickness of the down tube.
guy at work suggested motorbike windscreen bolts. seriously thats what they are called.. its like a rubber rivet or a raw plug for metal. pop it in the drilled hole and as you tighten the battery mount on the thing swells inside the downtube as the screw turns.
If you didn't drill your holes too big already use steel rivnuts instead. That is what bike factories use. The steel expands to lock it in the frame and it is stronger than the frame it replaces. Get steel because batteries are heavy and the threads won't strip out. Just google "install rivnuts without tools" and you will find youtube videos that get the job done.

Here are some M5 .8mm thread pitch zinc plated steel rivnuts at a good price. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00W8 ... UTF8&psc=1

jtsavola   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jtsavola » Mar 23 2019 4:00am

Hi, having some newbie questions. I'm trying to decide should I buy 48V or 36V version. It would be nice to have more power when off road but when going to streets could switch to road legal 250W limit. So my question is can we do it with 48V version through VLCD5. Or what effect has power setting in menu? Can you say which number is for 250W - the lowest 6? But I have understand 36V250W default setting is 16. If power setting number is amps do we really get 36Vx16A=576W maximum from default 250W version? And with 48V power setting to 12 to get same power? Or is it that simple?

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 23 2019 4:09am

jtsavola wrote:
Mar 23 2019 4:00am
Hi, having some newbie questions. I'm trying to decide should I buy 48V or 36V version. It would be nice to have more power when off road but when going to streets could switch to road legal 250W limit. So my question is can we do it with 48V version through VLCD5. Or what effect has power setting in menu? Can you say which number is for 250W - the lowest 6? But I have understand 36V250W default setting is 16. If power setting number is amps do we really get 36Vx16A=576W maximum from default 250W version? And with 48V power setting to 12 to get same power? Or is it that simple?
Go with our OpenSource firmware and switch on the fly in the LCD3, even adjust street and offroad parameters like max speed and max power.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

la8rat   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by la8rat » Mar 23 2019 4:20am

cheers raydon.

ive gone for m6 its a mountain bike and it sees some rough use.

i see my kt lcd3 has finally landed in england

hope to be annoying people with questions about that soon :)

jtsavola   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jtsavola » Mar 23 2019 4:40am

casainho wrote:
Mar 23 2019 4:09am
jtsavola wrote:
Mar 23 2019 4:00am
Hi, having some newbie questions. I'm trying to decide should I buy 48V or 36V version. It would be nice to have more power when off road but when going to streets could switch to road legal 250W limit. So my question is can we do it with 48V version through VLCD5. Or what effect has power setting in menu? Can you say which number is for 250W - the lowest 6? But I have understand 36V250W default setting is 16. If power setting number is amps do we really get 36Vx16A=576W maximum from default 250W version? And with 48V power setting to 12 to get same power? Or is it that simple?
Go with our OpenSource firmware and switch on the fly in the LCD3, even adjust street and offroad parameters like max speed and max power.
...but is that stock VLCD5 power limit about same thing?

hefest   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hefest » Mar 23 2019 7:36am

ri53hu wrote:
Mar 22 2019 8:02am
hefest.

Look here in the EU https://www.nejenhobby.cz/vazelina-bisu ... -faren.htm :roll:
That grease contains molybdenum disulfide which is going to affect blue plastic gear. Same goes for
graphite.

Mike-P   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Mike-P » Mar 23 2019 12:47pm

On the basis a picture is better than words and to clarify a number of earlier posts this is my latest alternative chainring combination - a 38 and 48 with a chainring guard fitted to the latest TDSZ2 spider with insulated bushing for the spindle (available from https://www.eco-ebike.com/products/110- ... -for-tsdz2). 3mm thick M5 spacers have been glued in place (60 second glue), held by M5 bolts and nuts whilst setting, so as to allow the spider bolts to be tightened without the spider twisting on the spindle and potentially locking the mechanism. The O ring is 77mm diameter and 3mm thick. As the original chainring on the bike was a triple 28-38-48 I am hoping the chainline will be okay.
Chainring.jpg
Chainring.jpg (105 KiB) Viewed 1007 times

bowzette   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bowzette » Mar 23 2019 5:48pm

I have the metal gear. How often should the various metal gears be lubed? Additionally is Lucas White Lithium Grease appropriate lube to use on the metal gears and teeth? I also have rather thick bicycle grease used for bike bearings. I am not using the plastic gear and want to avoid the really expensive grease the manufacturer recommends unless I really need to. Suggestions/recommendations welcomed.
Thanks

Retrorockit   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Mar 23 2019 7:50pm

Mike-P wrote:
Mar 23 2019 12:47pm
On the basis a picture is better than words and to clarify a number of earlier posts this is my latest alternative chainring combination - a 38 and 48 with a chainring guard fitted to the latest TDSZ2 spider with insulated bushing for the spindle (available from https://www.eco-ebike.com/products/110- ... -for-tsdz2). 3mm thick M5 spacers have been glued in place (60 second glue), held by M5 bolts and nuts whilst setting, so as to allow the spider bolts to be tightened without the spider twisting on the spindle and potentially locking the mechanism. The O ring is 77mm diameter and 3mm thick. As the original chainring on the bike was a triple 28-38-48 I am hoping the chainline will be okay.

Chainring.jpg
I put a smaller dia. O ring down inside the recess in the spider. That's where they had one originally. But at least you're maintaining a seal there.

bergerandfries   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bergerandfries » Mar 23 2019 10:53pm

raylo32 wrote:
Feb 15 2019 9:14am
I don't think the torque sensor is that sensitive. If the weather ever breaks I'll get out and see how it behaves at a stop with no brakes and report back. As for cadence, the motor doesn't force anything. It has a freehub mech in it and you can pedal at any cadence you want. My 52v version assists up to 100 RPM but I am free to spin faster if I want on my own watts... which I don't really want or need.

Plenty of very high end road bikes and racers around here with 175s. I have 2 of them. Stumpy cranks are for little people.
raylo32, do you have a good source for 175mm crankset that will work with the TSDZ2? I haven't found a source yet. Or are you cutting up a set of cranks to get 175s?

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 23 2019 11:10pm

bergerandfries wrote:
Mar 23 2019 10:53pm

raylo32, do you have a good source for 175mm crankset that will work with the TSDZ2? I haven't found a source yet. Or are you cutting up a set of cranks to get 175s?
https://www.bike24.com/p2138455.html

raylo32   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Mar 24 2019 6:07am

https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-Steps-Bi ... B01MCWH91J

bergerandfries wrote:
Mar 23 2019 10:53pm
raylo32, do you have a good source for 175mm crankset that will work with the TSDZ2? I haven't found a source yet. Or are you cutting up a set of cranks to get 175s?
[/quote]

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