New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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casainho   1 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jun 23 2019 10:20am

Motor not working but pulling power from battery
I got an issue that I never saw no one mention it. It was strange and at start I thought it could be something with our OpenSource firmware but I am now thinking it is an hardware issue because lately it happens much more frequently.

It happens like this: I feel the motor is not assisting at all although I look at LCD and I see motor power that increases as expected when I put more human on pedals, although, I see the motor power get to max value of only 220 watts. There is no noise on the motor while this happens. When this happens, usually, if I restarting pedaling the issue disappears.

Does anyone knows what is happening? I need to discover and then I want to update the TSDZ2 wiki with this issue and the solution.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

jimmyfergus   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jimmyfergus » Jun 23 2019 4:03pm

jimmyfergus wrote:
Jun 20 2019 9:40pm
Aquakitty wrote:
Jun 20 2019 7:49pm
I wonder if you are having a battery issue.
Oh, thank you for the prompt - I feel stupid for not getting out my voltmeter.
Yes, it was the voltage! I'm still feeling stupid for not realizing this. A few hours driving a 60W incandescent bulb and everything appears to work, which is all I wanted to know before I went down the path of using the FOSS firmware, which I'm doing now.

csbike   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by csbike » Jun 24 2019 6:57am

hi,
I was wondering if there is any knowledge as to which models of STLinkV2 clones work, and which do not. I have had a look on ebay and I the cheapest sell for about 5-6E. So if I buy 3 I am almost at the price of an original STLinkV2.

In any case, the original should work, right?

thanks

eirikso   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eirikso » Jun 24 2019 7:57am

I updated my LCD and my motor yesterday with this one:
https://www.banggood.com/no/3_3V-5V-XTW ... rehouse=CN

No problems with the one I got...

eirikso   10 µW

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Need help: no image on the LCD!

Post by eirikso » Jun 24 2019 11:36am

I installed the open source firmware on my bike yesterday. Installed firmware 18.02 and everything worked fine. I used the cable from my old LCD to connect the new one and also made a nice way to make it easy for me to update the firmware without opening the new LCD.

So, because FW 18.02 worked so well I decided to try 19.06 beta. That worked, but with some glitches in the menus. Because I had this easy way of updating I did a couple of tests of some of the other betas. But decided to go back to 18.02.

The problem is that at that point the LCD went blank. I can read it, update it and communicate with it. But absolutely no symbols on the screen. Not while connected to the ST-LINK and not while connected to the bike.

Any ideas? Dis my LCD3 just die? Or is there any way to run an update to kick it back to life?

It would be extremely irritating to be forced to roll back to the old LCD and the stock firmware.

casainho   1 GW

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Re: Need help: no image on the LCD!

Post by casainho » Jun 24 2019 12:48pm

eirikso wrote:
Jun 24 2019 11:36am
I installed the open source firmware on my bike yesterday. Installed firmware 18.02 and everything worked fine. I used the cable from my old LCD to connect the new one and also made a nice way to make it easy for me to update the firmware without opening the new LCD.

So, because FW 18.02 worked so well I decided to try 19.06 beta. That worked, but with some glitches in the menus. Because I had this easy way of updating I did a couple of tests of some of the other betas. But decided to go back to 18.02.

The problem is that at that point the LCD went blank. I can read it, update it and communicate with it. But absolutely no symbols on the screen. Not while connected to the ST-LINK and not while connected to the bike.

Any ideas? Dis my LCD3 just die? Or is there any way to run an update to kick it back to life?

It would be extremely irritating to be forced to roll back to the old LCD and the stock firmware.
Maybe you have the brake sensors active.
Maybe the wires of TX and RX to LCD are loose.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

eirikso   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eirikso » Jun 24 2019 3:06pm

Thank you. I did some more experiments. And finally solved it. I installed v0.19.0-beta2 and boom: the LCD suddenly got it's image back. Tried 0.18.2 again and no image on the LCD. So installed v0.19.0-beta2 again and the image was back.

This is how my LCD normally works:
When I am updating the LCD I have no battery or motor connected. After updating when I disconnect and connect the USB-Flasher the LCD wakes up and show all possible symbols. When connecting it back on the bike it boots by showing all possible symbols and then goes into normal mode and works fine.

The problem started when trying to roll back from v0.19.0-beta5 to 0.18.2. At that point the LCD started showing no image at all. Not when reconnected to the flasher nor when connected to the bike.

Is there a way to completely wipe out the LCD so that I can start from scratch if I want to roll all the way back to 0.18.2?

Anyway: I'm happy now, running v0.19.0-beta2 and will do so until next major release. My bike works well and I am having fun experimenting with all the nice settings and configurations in this firmware.

Again: thank you for making this!

LevelsAndMaps   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LevelsAndMaps » Jun 24 2019 3:18pm

Hello everyone!

I just had installed the tsdz2 with (marcoq config) and it's awesome!

BIG THANKS TO CASAINHO AND MARCOQ AND THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY HERE!

...but, here in Poland we are experiencing a heatwave and BOY DID IT GET HOT. Yes, I was riding it like I stole it, but after 10km the external black case was too hot to touch!
(40C at asphalt surface, coupled with all the heat coming from the inside, of course)

luckily, after 6hrs cooldown, all is good. but, I want to try my hand at cooling this beast down. My idea is to adapt a triple-fan waterblock from PC (corsair h150i) to go in direct contact with the internal motor shell (silver-looking one). for this, we would need to CNC a copper replacement for the stock, flat, copper rectangle supplied with the Corsair cooler.

main challenges:
- CNC of a semi-circle shaped contact plate, that perfectly touches as much motor surface as possible, on the internal motor enclosure of the tsdz2.
- waterproofing the external shell, after installing this

smaller areas of investigation:
- powering the cooling loop (I have an USB port on the battery, that should do the trick)
- securing the water block on the bottom of the frame and making sure it stays there even on bumpier rides.

vscope   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by vscope » Jun 24 2019 4:58pm

from my rc times i remember running a brushless motor with a less agressive timing keeps the motor cooler. maybe thats also possible with the tsdz2?

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Aquakitty   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Aquakitty » Jun 24 2019 5:06pm

mittkonto wrote:
Jun 23 2019 2:42am
RicMcK wrote:
Jun 22 2019 12:33pm
I don't know if this is the correct place for this question, as I am a NEWBEE.

Does anyone know where I can get a male-female set of either 6 or 8 pin display connectors? Without buying another motor control board and stock display?

Thanks
Rick McK Seattle WA
It seems to be a HIGO-Z812 you are looking for.
D'oh. I didn't know you could buy those. I just bought a bunch of these but they are kind of big.

LevelsAndMaps   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LevelsAndMaps » Jun 24 2019 6:05pm

vscope wrote:
Jun 24 2019 4:58pm
from my rc times i remember running a brushless motor with a less agressive timing keeps the motor cooler. maybe thats also possible with the tsdz2?
I imagine you would get into torque issues, and I do believe casainho already optimized the living hell out of it.

also, diy tinkering is fun! :P

RicMcK   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » Jun 24 2019 6:26pm

Newbee here. I am putting a 750W TSDZ2 on my town road bike. What is the best way to connect 3 wire brake sensors (through cable type) to the KT LCD3 cable- display? I have an 8 wire cable coming from the TSDZ2 and will be changing out the stock display to a KT LCD3, adding a temperature sensor, and 2 chainrings. I think my question is what type of 3 pin connector to use or should I just solder them to the 8 wire cable, or are they soldered directly onto the KT LCD board??

PS: 750W motor assembly arrived today. However, the other components will be several more weeks.

Thanks Rick

jimmyfergus   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jimmyfergus » Jun 24 2019 7:47pm

RicMcK wrote:
Jun 24 2019 6:26pm
What is the best way to connect 3 wire brake sensors (through cable type) to the KT LCD3 cable- display? I have an 8 wire cable coming from the TSDZ2 and will be changing out the stock display to a KT LCD3, adding a temperature sensor, and 2 chainrings. I think my question is what type of 3 pin connector to use or should I just solder them to the 8 wire cable, or are they soldered directly onto the KT LCD board??
Did you see the wiki?

I know that the LCD3 is not involved in brake sensors, except potentially you can manage the wires inside its case. But in terms of connections I think you can manage it however you like.

However, I have a related question to those in the know - how bad is it to have no brake sensors? With the "no assist when no pedal rotation" setting, I seem to have no issues with my brake sensors not yet attached. How important/useful are they?

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Jun 25 2019 2:51am

jimmyfergus wrote:
Jun 24 2019 7:47pm

Did you see the wiki?

I know that the LCD3 is not involved in brake sensors, except potentially you can manage the wires inside its case. But in terms of connections I think you can manage it however you like.

However, I have a related question to those in the know - how bad is it to have no brake sensors? With the "no assist when no pedal rotation" setting, I seem to have no issues with my brake sensors not yet attached. How important/useful are they?
In my opinion you don't need brake sensors with the TSDZ2. When you are braking you stop pedalling and the motor cuts out reasonably quickly. Also if you are preparing to stop your pedalling effort is decreasing, so the power output of the motor is already decreasing.

For a standard pedal assist bike (like a Bafang aftermarket) I would recommend the brake sensors, as when you are pedalling the motor is outputting whatever assist level you have set.

dameri   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Jun 25 2019 7:59am

eirikso wrote:
Jun 24 2019 3:06pm
Thank you. I did some more experiments. And finally solved it. I installed v0.19.0-beta2 and boom: the LCD suddenly got it's image back. Tried 0.18.2 again and no image on the LCD. So installed v0.19.0-beta2 again and the image was back.

This is how my LCD normally works:
When I am updating the LCD I have no battery or motor connected. After updating when I disconnect and connect the USB-Flasher the LCD wakes up and show all possible symbols. When connecting it back on the bike it boots by showing all possible symbols and then goes into normal mode and works fine.

The problem started when trying to roll back from v0.19.0-beta5 to 0.18.2. At that point the LCD started showing no image at all. Not when reconnected to the flasher nor when connected to the bike.

Is there a way to completely wipe out the LCD so that I can start from scratch if I want to roll all the way back to 0.18.2?

Anyway: I'm happy now, running v0.19.0-beta2 and will do so until next major release. My bike works well and I am having fun experimenting with all the nice settings and configurations in this firmware.

Again: thank you for making this!
Have you erased first installed software before you install new one. When you connect KT-LCD3 to computer you should press button program all tabs. Then load firmaware what you want and flash it.

eirikso   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eirikso » Jun 25 2019 8:30am

dameri wrote:
Jun 25 2019 7:59am
Have you erased first installed software before you install new one. When you connect KT-LCD3 to computer you should press button program all tabs. Then load firmaware what you want and flash it.
I wanted to erase, but the erase button was greyed out. But now I understand: When opening the application all the tabs are empty. So i simply write all the empty tabs and that will be as good as erasing.

I did not do that. So that was probably the problem. New firmware but old data and options.

After I got the bike up and running with 0.19 Beta 02 yesterday a new and final release of 0.19 was published. So that will be my next FW. And I will write empty tabs before that.

And now I know that a total loss of image on the LCD can be a software problem and not necessarily a hardware problem (that was my initial fear).

casainho   1 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jun 25 2019 8:35am

The first time I did show the motor temperature graph on 850C LCD. It started at ambient temperature 23 degrees, it went to max of 74 degrees in about 7 minutes of motor power of 500 watts (graph time was set to 15 minutes). Then we can see the cool down (I stopped pedaling at at 70 degrees):

Image
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

raylo32   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Jun 25 2019 8:52am

I think I am finally going to jump on the Open Source bandwagon. I found the wiki... Only thing that gives me pause is cutting and splicing the wires. i wish there was a plug and play set of connectors. Also, is there a wiki on the differences in install and function for the LCD3 and 850C besides that one is in color?

dameri   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Jun 25 2019 8:56am

eirikso wrote:
Jun 25 2019 8:30am
dameri wrote:
Jun 25 2019 7:59am
Have you erased first installed software before you install new one. When you connect KT-LCD3 to computer you should press button program all tabs. Then load firmaware what you want and flash it.
I wanted to erase, but the erase button was greyed out. But now I understand: When opening the application all the tabs are empty. So i simply write all the empty tabs and that will be as good as erasing.

I did not do that. So that was probably the problem. New firmware but old data and options.

After I got the bike up and running with 0.19 Beta 02 yesterday a new and final release of 0.19 was published. So that will be my next FW. And I will write empty tabs before that.

And now I know that a total loss of image on the LCD can be a software problem and not necessarily a hardware problem (that was my initial fear).
Yeah you got it. I recommend v0.19, I didn't remember that casainho released stable version. I have been riding with 0.19-beta8, which is same as v0.19.
Good luck.

Nick2   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Nick2 » Jun 25 2019 9:59am

Hi!

Newbie alert :D

I also put a 750W TSDZ2 on my city bike and so far I am quite happy with it.
For now I am using the standard firmware, maybe I will update it during the winter pause.
I found on the web that quite a few people are complaining that it is not powerful enough and that 8Fun is better etc. Maybe it is, but in speed and especially the turbo mode, it has plenty of pulling power.
The reason that I bought it because I live on the hill, about 60 meters above the city level, connected by approximately 1 km of 5% climb, followed by cca 100 m of 10% climb.

If it can pull the 130 kg (myself and the bike) up the hill without excessive strain, it is good enough for me. And It can - Yesterday I went through the first part in 3rd gear at 21 kmh, and the second part in second gear at 15 kmh, without excessive effort from my side. But it will always require at least some pedaling force, which I believe is a good thing.

Riding in my (very bicycle non-friendly) city on the level surface, I don't really need any boost at all - I don't feel any additional drag from the motor, and i cannot ride very fast anyway, due to street congestion.
So to cut the story short, here are the advantages and few niggles as I see it:
On the plus side:
- plenty of power for my needs,
- power delivery feels very natural, also don't feel the need for brake cut function
- throttle option very useful for fast start from stop signs or traffic lights
- seems to have good battery range (didn't test it properly yet)
- can be used without the motor boost (at least on the flat surface)
On the minus side:
- Cannot use 1st gear (chain starts to skip) - fortunately there is enough torque to cope in second gear. Other gears (2. to 8.) are fine.
- Q factor is wide and offset to the right - it does feel a bit awkward
- The bottle type battery that I bought from Pswpower (for aesthetic reasons :-)) turns out not to be the best solution: there is no internal connection between the battery and the cradle, so it not possible to unlock and remove the battery in one easy move - you must unscrew and pull the connector first. Also the supplied lock on the cradle is rubbish - I almost lost the battery on one not particularly deep pothole, so I secured it with the cable tie and that's it. At least battery seem to have plenty of power - LG4P13S Li-ion 3.2Ah LGGBMH11865

One more thing that is worth mentioning - it seems to be sensitive to overheating, so my plan is to put the additional capillary thermometer to control the temperature, and possibly add thermal conductive silicone pad to transfer the heat to the outer casing.

jimmyfergus   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jimmyfergus » Jun 25 2019 12:42pm

Nick2 wrote:
Jun 25 2019 9:59am
For now I am using the standard firmware, maybe I will update it during the winter pause.
I'm a newbie too, but I think the FOSS firmware is well worth it. I didn't spend a lot of time with the stock firmware, but I still feel like the FOSS is more responsive, and way more flexible. Also, I've seen it said that it protects the blue plastic gear by restricting the speed of power application. To me that's a big deal - if that gear can last a long time.

The worst of the job is having to solder connectors to the display board and splice together some wires.
It turns out that connecting to flash the motor is way easier than you might think from the wiki and videos.
Nick2 wrote:
Jun 25 2019 9:59am
I found on the web that quite a few people are complaining that it is not powerful enough and that 8Fun is better etc.. [...]But it will always require at least some pedaling force, which I believe is a good thing.
Agreed. This is the only ebike I have experience of, but I really wonder what people are looking for. I get the appeal of building a hot-rod, but this motor gives me copious power in terms of electric assist. Any more and it's becoming a moped. I feel like I can cruise at 22mph / 35kph on the flat with trivial input, drawing 200W.
Nick2 wrote:
Jun 25 2019 9:59am
- throttle option very useful for fast start from stop signs or traffic lights
- seems to have good battery range (didn't test it properly yet)
I haven't fitted the throttle, but I'd be wary of putting a lot of power through the motor at low revs for the sake of that blue gear, so I'm quite happy to get little or no assist until I've got the bike moving.

Even when I use what I think is pretty aggressive assist I'm using ~10Wh/mile, 6/km. Pretty excellent.
Nick2 wrote:
Jun 25 2019 9:59am
- Cannot use 1st gear (chain starts to skip) - fortunately there is enough torque to cope in second gear. Other gears (2. to 8.) are fine.
That has to be your cassette/chain combo. Could be time to get new ones...

Re overheating, that's another big draw to me for the FOSS firmware. A temperature sensor to protect the motor...
Last edited by jimmyfergus on Jun 26 2019 9:59am, edited 1 time in total.

LevelsAndMaps   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LevelsAndMaps » Jun 25 2019 6:22pm

how difficult would it be to gradually limit power as temps go up? would that even fit on top of all the code, in the monochrome LCDs?

pretty much similar with programmable curve for PC fans.

instead of having the user back off the pedals, this would be a much safer way to preserve temps :D

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Jun 25 2019 9:02pm

raylo32 wrote:
Jun 25 2019 8:52am
I think I am finally going to jump on the Open Source bandwagon. I found the wiki... Only thing that gives me pause is cutting and splicing the wires. i wish there was a plug and play set of connectors. Also, is there a wiki on the differences in install and function for the LCD3 and 850C besides that one is in color?
Complete 8 pin plug & play cables, displays, ST-Link programming kits, and complete motor kits for TSDZ2 Open Source Firmware (OSF) Upgrade can be found here: https://www.electrifybike.com/store/c37 ... cts.html#/

(Full disclosure - this is my website)

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rydon » Jun 25 2019 9:10pm

LevelsAndMaps wrote:
Jun 25 2019 6:22pm
how difficult would it be to gradually limit power as temps go up? would that even fit on top of all the code, in the monochrome LCDs?

pretty much similar with programmable curve for PC fans.

instead of having the user back off the pedals, this would be a much safer way to preserve temps :D
That was already implemented by Casainho. You need to add a temperature sensor and it uses the throttle ADC so it is in lieu of the throttle. It functions exactly as you describe. Pretty cool. Here is the link https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... ure-sensor

Also works with the Marcoq version with TongSheng standard displays.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LevelsAndMaps » Jun 26 2019 5:26am

thanks!

sensors on their way, looking forward to install them + upgrade to Brass gear.

after almost 100km on the bike, I find the throttle completely useless (for me)

this is by far, the best electrification option under 1000$.

is the 850C color display officially supported now?

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