New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
User avatar
Norton
10 W
10 W
Posts: 72
Joined: May 25, 2017 7:55 am
Location: KC, Mo

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Norton » Jun 25, 2017 8:53 am

eyebyesickle wrote:....but... if we get the ability to program the controller, I will be happy, and then to change the wiring... that will be nice for any DIYer but the open market on these things is still gonna suck for a while probably. I don't know. Will TS shape up before factory ebikes become even more sensible? The kit still bridges a gap... it will be relevant for a while...
It took me until now to see these things offered higher power to even consider, I will admit. Now I am amazed. ....
I didn't go back through this long thread, but,,,

Did you ever ride the 500W TSDZ2 stock, with a decent 48V battery?

I read your report on how the torque sensing works. Thanks for the detailed report! I'm excited to pull the trigger!
Just waiting on an official report on the 48V unit being OK with the 52V pack.

I rode a factory ebike, with probably less than 500W, and it was amazing !

User avatar
eyebyesickle
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 461
Joined: Apr 07, 2015 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Jun 25, 2017 9:20 am

No, only have touched the 48v18a... Which is a blast even at half power, even... To be fair

Waynemarlow
100 W
100 W
Posts: 118
Joined: Jul 09, 2016 7:22 am
Location: Bucks, England

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Jun 26, 2017 5:16 am

Norton wrote: Did you ever ride the 500W TSDZ2 stock, with a decent 48V battery?
I rode a factory ebike, with probably less than 500W, and it was amazing !
Guys you have to consider what your plans are for riding, if you are going to ride full suspension mtbs then do consider what gears you normally use on your local rides. My guess is that most of the time you are using very low speed gears because of the terrain and even if you wanted to go faster, the terrain won't allow that. I'm finding on both my Ebikes that the speed average between non and ebikes is just the difference between kmh and mph as in I average about 12kmh in non ebike mode and 12 mph in. I think most of that difference though is not on the off road bits but on the road sections between. I have one ride which is almost entirely off road and the difference there is just 3 mph average faster. On this ride its the terrain that limits the speed, not the power of the motor

Remember gears on anything automotive is to get a better use of limited power, do you really need 500w on off road trails, to date other than a quick burst up a hill for a " see what it can do " I haven't needed the higher 3 modes, mode 2 is fine and means I can run smaller batteries without worry of having to fit larger and heavier batteries.

Electric engines build up huge amounts of heat if you are not spinning them at decent revs, are the few failures we are having on the plastic gear rider induced perhaps, using lots of torque in the wrong gear will soon heat the shafts and motor up to a point where the abs becomes soft. You can get quite lazy with the motors and pull off from slow starts up hills with the energy from the motor doing the work, at 500W and 250W human input you can pull a very high gear and still pull away, but at the expense of loads of heat build up.

Also you road guys, are you not looking at the wrong sort of engine for road use, I was lead to beleive that hub motors are much better for road use and more efficient.

ScooterMan101
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1225
Joined: Oct 06, 2012 4:45 pm
Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ScooterMan101 » Jun 26, 2017 9:10 am

The Answer to both of these questions depends on where you live/ how steep and how long the hills are.

I live with Mountains around me, so more than 500 watts is needed .

I ride two different hub motors, one rated for 350 watts that I regularly run 450-600 watts into it when going up hills that are up to 6 % or a little more grade, and over 1 km in length , it is just not enough power
I am pushing my heart rate up too much and stressing my Cardiovascular System too much .

The other motor that I have ( Mac 6T ) has just enough power to go up 6% -8% short length grades, my display shows about 1200 watts and 25 amps on 12 s battery , and I could still use a little more watts and amps.

I do not yet go up any Mountains, any road that has a gradient over 6% that is also over 1.5 or so Km's long because of only having hub motors at the present time.

Even factoring in the use of gears , I would want at least 1,000 watts ( minimum ) of power to go up the mountains on the Road, or even think about riding the very steep trails of the
Soquel Demonstration Forest , located near Santa Cruz .
Even at slow speed I would need allot of Amps.

So in some parts of the World , even on a Road Bike a Mid-Drive that uses the rear cog set is better. It is on the Flat areas where the hub's really have the advantage.

There is one more option for Living in Dry Climate's / when riding on Dry Days , Kepler's Friction Drive , I would really like to see some test results on his newest Friction Drive going up some Epic Mountain Passes like the ones in the Tour De France / Tour De Swiss.


Waynemarlow wrote:
Remember gears on anything automotive is to get a better use of limited power, do you really need 500w on off road trails,


Also you road guys, are you not looking at the wrong sort of engine for road use, I was lead to beleive that hub motors are much better for road use and more efficient.

User avatar
eyebyesickle
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 461
Joined: Apr 07, 2015 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Jun 26, 2017 9:43 am

In my experience, mid drives are more effecient with the battery due to utilizing gearing. Even on street. May have to do with my riding style...

Just keep that mid drive in the proper gear for as high rpm as possible...

The hub is quieter, but at the expense of the added weight, and the location of that weight, I am moving away from hubs for anything other than high power on street. Thats just me though... i think alot of it is preference. I like to stay nimble...

atomohodez
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 15
Joined: Aug 07, 2016 1:31 am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by atomohodez » Jun 26, 2017 11:09 am

RTIII wrote:OK, probably my last post for the morning:

My new adapter, mounted, waiting for the 52T chainring to arrive...
Be so kind as to send the drawing of the 110bcd adapter that you made, with dimensions please! Thank you!

RTIII
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 436
Joined: Jun 02, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Oakland, CA, USA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jun 26, 2017 12:29 pm

atomohodez wrote:
RTIII wrote:OK, probably my last post for the morning:

My new adapter, mounted, waiting for the 52T chainring to arrive...
Be so kind as to send the drawing of the 110bcd adapter that you made, with dimensions please! Thank you!
This morning I wrote up basic directions for making one on the thread about gearing, since that seemed more appropriate than here. Here's that thread:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 6#p1299556

Sorry, no measured drawing, but good directions, I think, especially when you consider the photos...

ScooterMan101
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1225
Joined: Oct 06, 2012 4:45 pm
Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ScooterMan101 » Jun 26, 2017 3:13 pm

While mid-drives are more efficient at going up hills because of the use of gears, there is a big factor which is ... that many people only experience hills in their lifetime of riding, I and others live right next to Mountains so what they need and what people who live in areas like me really need are more power than the usual .

Those that are going up the same degree of slopes and distance at a good enough speed that gives the cars coming around the corners enough time to see you, are using at least 3k watts and more on their hub's. So that is why I am saying at least 1K
on a mid-drive.

The TSDZ2 running on 52 volts at 18 amps , Might be just enough barely , So I have interest in this little motor now that I find out it ( the newer higher 18 amp version ) will accept a 14s pack,

I am very interested in how you get it all together, Was not interested in it before talk of 14s pack at 18 amps.

eyebyesickle wrote:In my experience, mid drives are more effecient with the battery due to utilizing gearing. Even on street. May have to do with my riding style...

User avatar
Norton
10 W
10 W
Posts: 72
Joined: May 25, 2017 7:55 am
Location: KC, Mo

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Norton » Jun 26, 2017 3:36 pm

ScooterMan101 wrote:...I am very interested in how you get it all together, Was not interested in it before talk of 14s pack at 18 amps.
This now makes it close to a 1000W mid-drive. Nice because it is a compact, torque sensing unit.

But currently this is:
Buying a brand new 500W kit and taking it apart and replacing the controller with an 18A / higher RPM version. And maybe the blue plastic gear for good luck?
I assume this voids any warranty.

Doubling the power output is a big deal.
What about water mist cooling the motor/controller area? I have a water bottle size pump-up water mister thinger. :P

I'm not interested until a factory version is made available. I'll live with 500W or whatever the '52V capable' unit is rated at. Are those available from a vender now?

But that's just me. I don't like breaking chit. I want to build it and ride it. Not work on it every other month, or week.... :roll:

RTIII
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 436
Joined: Jun 02, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Oakland, CA, USA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jun 26, 2017 5:05 pm

Norton wrote: I'm not interested until a factory version is made available. I'll live with 500W or whatever the '52V capable' unit is rated at. Are those available from a vender now?

But that's just me. I don't like breaking chit. I want to build it and ride it. Not work on it every other month, or week.... :roll:
I got my unit as a "48v 500W" unit, rated at 15A from a normal vendor (see a page or two back for vendor links I left as a bread-crumb trail). If you do the math, that's NOT a 500W unit, it's actually 720W - damned close to a full horsepower, by the way! (Watts is amps times volts, so if it's a young, freshly charged pack and you actually get it to put out full power, it should be around 800W on a nominal 48v pack.) If, as eye alludes, it really does work with a 14s pack, then you're at 861W or thereabouts.

User avatar
eyebyesickle
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 461
Joined: Apr 07, 2015 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Jun 26, 2017 6:23 pm

Norton wrote:
ScooterMan101 wrote:...I am very interested in how you get it all together, Was not interested in it before talk of 14s pack at 18 amps.
This now makes it close to a 1000W mid-drive. Nice because it is a compact, torque sensing unit.

But currently this is:
Buying a brand new 500W kit and taking it apart and replacing the controller with an 18A / higher RPM version. And maybe the blue plastic gear for good luck?
I assume this voids any warranty.

Doubling the power output is a big deal.
What about water mist cooling the motor/controller area? I have a water bottle size pump-up water mister thinger. :P

I'm not interested until a factory version is made available. I'll live with 500W or whatever the '52V capable' unit is rated at. Are those available from a vender now?

But that's just me. I don't like breaking chit. I want to build it and ride it. Not work on it every other month, or week.... :roll:
Factory said:

For 48v18a XH-18, Headlight, Throttle, Brakes - 50 MOQ

:shock:

Also, this is NOT WITH A COPPER GEAR!

I am sure others already have things in the works that are keeping quiet about it

8)

I don't know what a fair price for a FULLY LOADED TSDZ2 would be... but likely I would be willing to pay more than the target market would. A small US business modifying the units themselves, AND providing a warranty, likely would have to charge 750+ per unit to responsibly stay afloat. NO THANKS!

ScooterMan101
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1225
Joined: Oct 06, 2012 4:45 pm
Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ScooterMan101 » Jun 26, 2017 9:18 pm

Who has pictures to show the different display's

Eyebyesickle . are you using the HX-18 display ?

that display comes with the 18 amp controller in the motor ?
or
Does the display not matter, if so how can someone be sure they are ordering the one that has a 18 amp controller ?

Using 9 speed Cassette and Chain ?

User avatar
eyebyesickle
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 461
Joined: Apr 07, 2015 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Jun 26, 2017 9:47 pm

ScooterMan101 wrote:Who has pictures to show the different display's

Eyebyesickle . are you using the HX-18 display ?

that display comes with the 18 amp controller in the motor ?
or
Does the display not matter, if so how can someone be sure they are ordering the one that has a 18 amp controller ?

Using 9 speed Cassette and Chain ?
I can post pics for you tomorrow... I am using XH-18. The little one with the color screen. They (factory, resellers) don't want to wire anything to it... sometimes you can get the throttle wired to it... its a pain to deal with anyone on this though... no good distributors for the American model/market yet I dun think

The thing about the 18a controller... I don't know of anyone other than me that gets them... the FUTUREBIKE guys says he can get them, but he ways like $100 a pop... I am buying copper gears from him though... which he charges about $45 a pop for... plus shipping from Italy so...

I am waiting on the next batch to make 100% sure, but the best you can do is ask someone "48v18a TSDZ2?" 10 times.... but then if you want to add wiring... prepare for another 10 times back and forth... I do this every night and am decent at it, and get frustrated. Luckily, my girl came through for me, after I had got upset for paying more and followed you guys to auto-ebike (who is also BMSbattery, for the record) who sent me a 48v15a... Though they did send it fast and cheap... no complaints there! But yeah, best you can do is ask!

9 Speed... I don't know if the width would catch... I use an 8 speed fine...

User avatar
Norton
10 W
10 W
Posts: 72
Joined: May 25, 2017 7:55 am
Location: KC, Mo

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Norton » Jun 26, 2017 9:49 pm

eyebyesickle wrote:...Factory said:

For 48v18a XH-18, Headlight, Throttle, Brakes - 50 MOQ

Also, this is NOT WITH A COPPER GEAR!

I am sure others already have things in the works that are keeping quiet about it...
What's "50 MOQ" ?

So it's an anodized gold aluminum gear?? Bronze alloy?? Will the stock blue plastic gear handle the 500 watt version and not have a melt down if you keep it spinning happy?

I'm ready to pull the trigger but it sounds like the TSDZ2 is a work in development.

Maybe I'll go with the cheap 350W/36V version just to get my feet wet and put that on my 20" folder, a Bike Friday.
Can these slide out battery pack mounts handle being mounted on the bottom of a top tube?

Scoot,
Good question about 9 spd chain. That stock chain ring just doesn't look normal. Plus its width would matter with a 9 or 10 spd chain. That's what I plan on running.
It would not be a big deal to swap the chain ring to an actual 9 or t0 spd chainring,, I hope.

User avatar
eyebyesickle
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 461
Joined: Apr 07, 2015 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Jun 26, 2017 10:01 pm

50 moq means they want someone to order 50 to make it like they want.

The gears I get are from FUTUREBIKE in Italy, they are made of copper, they are about $45 USD + shipping a piece.

Yes, the TSDZ2 is DEFINITLY a work in development.

I am running my 48v18a HARD, TRYING TO BURN OUT THE BLUE GEAR. I have only rode it a few hours so far (as hard as I could) and no signs yet, but I have not been stupid and tried to smash a big hill in the highest gear... I mean I also am only about 160ish so.... word is if you go SLOW, and try to go STRONG, THEN, you might burn one out. I am seeing what happens and then if it goes bad, I will replace the gear. I need to open it up ANYWAY...

If you are mounting your battery on the top tube... just make sure it is securely mounted, and padded from any bumps,... and of course covered and sufficiently water resistant... if so - you should be good. Yeah, for a smaller folder, I think you would be happy with a 36v for sure! Should work good with those small wheels

User avatar
Norton
10 W
10 W
Posts: 72
Joined: May 25, 2017 7:55 am
Location: KC, Mo

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Norton » Jun 26, 2017 10:13 pm

eyebyesickle wrote:...If you are mounting your battery on the top tube... I think you would be happy with a 36v for sure! Should work good with those small wheels
I'm talking about a typical 'Shark pack'. It slides out of a locking base plate for taking it in the house for charging or to take it with you when you leave the bike to avoid theft.
On the Bike Friday the water bottle cage braze-ons are on the bottom of the top tube.
I'll just have to ask the manufacturers about these pack mounts.

As for 'tiny wheels' , they don't matter at all. Watts is Watts.
The speed and the feel of this bike is the same as any road bike when you're up and riding it. It's geared to be the same.

ScooterMan101
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1225
Joined: Oct 06, 2012 4:45 pm
Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ScooterMan101 » Jun 26, 2017 10:26 pm

On the internet it looks like the XH-18 Display has a half twist throttle ? to the left of the display.
on sellers website it is listed as right side display , but shows the display on the right side of what looks like a half throttle , very confusing .
and Tonsxang says no throttle ?

and You are saying we can wire up a throttle ?

>

Edit, Just found a youtube video, from someone in Korea , different motor ? but looks like the XH-18 display, it is Not right side like the e-bay and aliexpress and other sellers say, it goes on the left and is not a throttle , it is used like a old grip shift shifter to shift into the 4 different assist modes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtS4Krd_Zt8

>


Will look forward to those pictures tomorrow.

Also , Only , interested in a ( B ) model, listed at 48 volt to 52 volt battery range.
eyebyesickle wrote:
I can post pics for you tomorrow... I am using XH-18. The little one with the color screen. They (factory, resellers) don't want to wire anything to it... sometimes you can get the throttle wired to it... its a pain to deal with anyone on this though... no good distributors for the American model/market yet I dun think

The thing about the 18a controller... I don't know of anyone other than me that gets them... the FUTUREBIKE guys says he can get them, but he ways like $100 a pop... I am buying copper gears from him though... which he charges about $45 a pop for... plus shipping from Italy so...

I am waiting on the next batch to make 100% sure, but the best you can do is ask someone "48v18a TSDZ2?" 10 times.... but then if you want to add wiring... prepare for another 10 times back and forth... I do this every night and am decent at it, and get frustrated. Luckily, my girl came through for me, after I had got upset for paying more and followed you guys to auto-ebike (who is also BMSbattery, for the record) who sent me a 48v15a... Though they did send it fast and cheap... no complaints there! But yeah, best you can do is ask!

9 Speed... I don't know if the width would catch... I use an 8 speed fine...
Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Jun 26, 2017 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ScooterMan101
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1225
Joined: Oct 06, 2012 4:45 pm
Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ScooterMan101 » Jun 26, 2017 10:31 pm

2 Chain ring version ? ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDKQUkqdacc#t=22.688417

Or is that a different motor ?

RTIII
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 436
Joined: Jun 02, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Oakland, CA, USA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jun 26, 2017 11:05 pm

Norton wrote:What's "50 MOQ" ?
Minimum Order Quantity.
Norton wrote:Will the stock blue plastic gear handle the 500 watt version and not have a melt down if you keep it spinning happy?
The issue is low RPM and high torque; if you keep the RPM up (downshift to a low gear), you're safe. Don't hit heavy assist mode from a dead stop. Ever.
Norton wrote:I'm ready to pull the trigger but it sounds like the TSDZ2 is a work in development.
The VW Beetle was a work in development from 1933 until the mid 1970s. It's called "Continual Improvement."

Just order this one:

http://auto-ebike.com/index.php?main_pa ... ts_id=1802

THIS ONE can take the throttle, if you ever want one, etc, etc. Note the price.
Norton wrote:Can these slide out battery pack mounts handle being mounted on the bottom of a top tube?
Yes, but that's probably not a great place for it for other reasons.
Norton wrote:It would not be a big deal to swap the chain ring to an actual 9 or t0 spd chainring,, I hope.
I think you should read my writings on the subject. Here's a whole thread on gearing / chainrings:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1299628

The short-short of it; it's probably more of a big deal than you're thinking. The problem is the chainline. The stock 42T is deeply offset for a damned good reason...

User avatar
Norton
10 W
10 W
Posts: 72
Joined: May 25, 2017 7:55 am
Location: KC, Mo

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Norton » Jun 27, 2017 7:25 am

RTIII wrote:Just order this one:

http://auto-ebike.com/index.php?main_pa ... ts_id=1802

THIS ONE can take the throttle, if you ever want one, etc, etc. Note the price.
Norton wrote:Can these slide out battery pack mounts handle being mounted on the bottom of a top tube?
Yes, but that's probably not a great place for it for other reasons.
Norton wrote:It would not be a big deal to swap the chain ring to an actual 9 or t0 spd chainring,, I hope.
I think you should read my writings on the subject. Here's a whole thread on gearing / chainrings:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1299628

The short-short of it; it's probably more of a big deal than you're thinking. The problem is the chainline. The stock 42T is deeply offset for a damned good reason...
Wow, thanks for the link. The prices just keep getting better.
I understand gearing and chainline. I just thought someone talked about the chain 'snagging' on the stock chain ring. That stock chain ring looks odd to me.

BUT, if it is odd, I can chuck it up in a lathe and make it thinner for a 9 spd drive train and make the teeth not so dang tall. Is it an unusual chain ring? I like that it is dished to keep the correct chain line.

Thanks again for the good words.

I guess you mean the pack will get splashed by the front wheel mounted on the bottom of the top tube? That's the only stock water bottle mounts. I could add more on the top of the top tube.
Are packs not water resistant?

I"m mainly worried that the slider base plate for a typical Shark pack is not made to carry the weight upside down.

What about a No Name 48V pack? Any suggestions there? I don't need large at first.

edit: They say free shipping on 10 items. So I want the throttle. And I thought I saw a small +- and power off switch for mounting near the grip. I can buy their $210 , 48V / 10.4Ah pack,,, what else??
Dinky LED lights to get the order up to 10 items? It's $68 shipping if I just buy the mid drive....

User avatar
eyebyesickle
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 461
Joined: Apr 07, 2015 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Jun 27, 2017 7:43 am

I would feel like I hijacked this thread if it wasn't already so long... I mean, this is where I post this, right? A few things. Let me be very clear... I know I mess around A LOT here... but I do take some things seriously so I did quite a bit of legwork to get to the bottom of things here, and did my best to make sure this was accurate. This info is just me jabbing, not really a good format, or user friendly... Sometime ASAP someone will make a friendly 'overhead how to video' of how to open these up and do the upgrades real quick (xh 18 to throttle/brakes, add a headlight, and replace the gear)...
TSDZ2 - VLCD5-Model - wiring diagram.pdf
(1.69 MiB) Downloaded 155 times
- I will share the programming software (80+MB .RAR) , and programming information (not very good from factory until I update), but use AT YOUR OWN RISK. The only reason to use it is to raise the RPM and POWER limit...
Tongsheng mid-motor software upgrading.pdf
(222.29 KiB) Downloaded 135 times
QQ"dropbox" Programming Software .RAR Link - http://mail.qq.com/cgi-bin/ftnExs_downl ... e=f30dd265

You will need to make your own programming cable.

- NO CONTROLLER DIFFERENCE IN VLDC-5/XH-18 DISPLAY - this was why I was scared to mess with it first. I don't know anything!!! hahah. the whole problem is retailers being stocked up with what they have, and wanting to sell that. That is what 'can't' translates to. It comes DOWN TO THE WIRING HARNESS, AND THE THROTTLE/BRAKE CONNECTOR. MOQ 50. YEA! Then, what are you gonna do, split up the units? Its business - petty, but until the market eats up the rest of the old units... you better BUY DIRECT! Of course, as with the BBS, they are adding light connectors too now...

- I recommend getting a unit with the VLDC-5 display. These units come wired with 8 pins leading from the motor to the display, and then you connect the throttle and brakes directly to the display. Then, if you with to use an XH-18 display, just create a mini 'junction box' (or anything sort of split, really) to split off the lines for the throttle and brakes right before the display, since the XH-18 has no plugs for these accessories.

- I did what I could to let the manufacturer and retailers know what we want, but who knows... they say next will be xh18 with throttle,brakes,headlight, and headlight for the vldc5 model too... but no confirmation on anyone stocking the 48v18a for retail, or what wattage they will label it at

- Most of the available TSDZ2 units are already produced and sitting to be sold, so these need to clear out before any retailers are even thinking about getting the above, if they actually even go for it etc...

- MOST retailers WONT get the 48v18a BECAUSE IT IS NOT RECCOMENDED... you really need to change that gear etc... especially in the American market with heavy rider! hahahah

- THEY STILL NEED TO UPGRADE THEIR GEARS. (and then make a housing like FUTUREBIKE... honestly - that guy is doing it, upgraded gears and a housing)

- NO GOOD THROTTLE OR BRAKE OPTIONS (USE YOUR OWN)

- watch, tomorrow all the retailers get updated information =) hahahahah

Again, for reference:
TSDZ2 - VLCD5-Model - wiring diagram.pdf
(1.69 MiB) Downloaded 155 times
if you need use google or some image translating software. I might do it for you if I have time

RTIII
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 436
Joined: Jun 02, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Oakland, CA, USA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jun 27, 2017 11:33 am

Norton wrote:Wow, thanks for the link. The prices just keep getting better.
Not really, they're just settling down a little; I paid 290 for that same unit back in the first week of June - now it's $9 more, or about 3%, I think, however, the week after I bought, the same people had it for $310, so it went up, then down, but still higher than when I bought. :D
Norton wrote:I just thought someone talked about the chain 'snagging' on the stock chain ring.
If it happened, they probably have an odd chain. My old, 1982 vintage chain fits it fine, as does the brand new Shimano "narrow" "7 / 8 / 9" chain I just bought. With not that many miles on it so far - maybe 25 / 30 miles - the paint is wearing off of the teeth, but I kind of expect that.
Norton wrote:BUT, if it is odd, I can chuck it up in a lathe and make it thinner for a 9 spd drive train and make the teeth not so dang tall. Is it an unusual chain ring? I like that it is dished to keep the correct chain line.
You REALLY need to read what I've written about this. Your suggestion about chucking it in a lathe; I seriously doubt it and if you do, I wanna see pictures! Note I've got a lathe too, and mill, and I already went this route and it doesn't work / doesn't help, and that's why I created my adapter and why I wrote all those words about it; so other people can benefit from what I learned. And photos prove the point - or, at least some of the points! :lol:

...The stock TSDZ2 42T chainring is definitely unusual, but primarily because it's so heavily dished (6mm). It's also very thin for what it is: 2mm. I had a straight steel 52T and it was 2.9mm, and didn't have to deal with the side-loads of all that dishing! Practically speaking, you CANNOT move it inboard any more and cannot put another chainring between it and the spider. I documented all this and much more about how to solve the problem both upthread (here in this thread) and also here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=88711

My adapter is the right way to do this - or some adapter of similar design. Note that in the text comments someone else asked me about their situation and I gave some good advice / discussion on both dual chainrings without any adapter and also going to larger diameter, such as 130 BCD...
Norton wrote:I guess you mean the pack will get splashed by the front wheel mounted on the bottom of the top tube? That's the only stock water bottle mounts. I could add more on the top of the top tube.
I wasn't thinking of water but of practical issues of handling. I haven't seen your setup and have no specific opinion based on knowledge of the details, but it just seems to me that above the top tube is asking for a groin crunch, and below the tube would be better done in a hanging bag than rigidly attached.
Norton wrote:I"m mainly worried that the slider base plate for a typical Shark pack is not made to carry the weight upside down.
If it's screwed in, screws (and nails and similar fasteners) are strongest in shear, and are relatively weak and prone to breakage in tension, especially with side-to-side vibrational loads introducing risk of metal fatigue.
Norton wrote:They say free shipping on 10 items. So I want the throttle. And I thought I saw a small +- and power off switch for mounting near the grip. I can buy their $210 , 48V / 10.4Ah pack,,, what else??
Dinky LED lights to get the order up to 10 items? It's $68 shipping if I just buy the mid drive....
Bell? Cell phone / GPS mounting clamp? Accessory handle-bar tube?

Maybe create a new thread for your build! :D

RTIII
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 436
Joined: Jun 02, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Oakland, CA, USA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jun 27, 2017 12:03 pm

WOW, Eye, that's a lot to digest in one posting! :D
eyebyesickle wrote:this is where I post this, right?
Unless you want to create a new thread just for this aspect of the TSDZ2, yes, this is the right place.

And thanks for all the footwork and for sharing.
eyebyesickle wrote:Sometime ASAP someone will make a friendly 'overhead how to video' of how to open these up and do the upgrades real quick (xh 18 to throttle/brakes, add a headlight, and replace the gear)...
That someone will have to be you (or someone on your team) since none of us are clueful enough about it at present.
eyebyesickle wrote:I will share the programming software (80+MB .RAR) , and programming information (not very good from factory until I update), but use AT YOUR OWN RISK. The only reason to use it is to raise the RPM and POWER limit...
If you'd take notes as you use it yourself and then share that, that would be VERY helpful. Things like: what's the installation process like? How do you launch it? Once running, how does it know how to connect to the bike hardware? Etc.
eyebyesickle wrote:You will need to make your own programming cable.
I presume there are some kind of directions in the materials you've shared - haven't gotten that far yet! :D
eyebyesickle wrote:- NO CONTROLLER DIFFERENCE IN VLDC-5/XH-18 DISPLAY - this was why I was scared to mess with it first.
I suspected as much.
eyebyesickle wrote:the whole problem is retailers being stocked up with what they have, and wanting to sell that. That is what 'can't' translates to. It comes DOWN TO THE WIRING HARNESS, AND THE THROTTLE/BRAKE CONNECTOR. [...snip...] but until the market eats up the rest of the old units... you better BUY DIRECT! Of course, as with the BBS, they are adding light connectors too now...
I bought from the retailer whose link I just gave Norton and the only thing I'm missing (as far as I know) is a connector for the lamp. Any hints on how to get that out of this system would be great - and I have the 48V, 15A ("500W") unit with VLCD-5.
eyebyesickle wrote:- I recommend getting a unit with the VLDC-5 display.
Thanks for backing me up about that - I've been saying that for weeks now! 8)
eyebyesickle wrote:These units [VLCD-5] come wired with 8 pins leading from the motor to the display, and then you connect the throttle and brakes directly to the display. Then, if you with to use an XH-18 display, just create a mini 'junction box' (or anything sort of split, really) to split off the lines for the throttle and brakes right before the display, since the XH-18 has no plugs for these accessories.
What? Run both the VLCD-5 AND the Xh-18 at the same time? If you have the VLCD-5, then you already have the place to plug your throttle and hand brake cut-outs. There's also an electrical connector that would be PERFECT to repurpose a connection to the Xh-18. (Take the VLCD-5 display off of the mounting it comes attached to - you push in on a small section of plastic. See the pictures and follow your nose.)
eyebyesickle wrote:they say next will be xh18 with throttle,brakes,headlight, and headlight for the vldc5 model too... but no confirmation on anyone stocking the 48v18a for retail, or what wattage they will label it at
I'm not holding my breath.
eyebyesickle wrote:THEY STILL NEED TO UPGRADE THEIR GEARS.
That's as yet both unproven and unlikely; a better solution might well be to add some smarts to the controller and simply not allow high amperage to the motor when the RPMs are low, and especially not zero or close to it.
eyebyesickle wrote:NO GOOD THROTTLE OR BRAKE OPTIONS (USE YOUR OWN)
We know they make them! I have one on order I got (will receive?) from Alibaba - still waiting on delivery!
eyebyesickle wrote:if you need use google or some image translating software. I might do it for you if I have time
That would be nice! :D

User avatar
Norton
10 W
10 W
Posts: 72
Joined: May 25, 2017 7:55 am
Location: KC, Mo

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Norton » Jun 27, 2017 1:12 pm

Yep !
This is the TSDZ2 thread of knowledge now. Thanks!

RT, No such thing as a 7-8-9 spd chain. You either have an old 5-6-7-8 chain width or the more narrow 9 spd chain, or the more narrow 10 spd chain, or the even more narrow 11 spd chain.
And chain rings and cassettes are spec'd by the chain they are designed for.

My bikes are either 9 or 10 spd so I want to make sure the TSDZ2 chain rings are thin enough to deal with 9 and 10 spd chains.
I was talking about spinning the stock chain ring on a lathe and using a high speed to sand it thinner just at the teeth,, but only if needed. I'll measure it compared to a 9 and 10 spd chain ring. And those teeth seem really tall compared to typical chain rings.
I'll live with the chain line of the stock single chain ring.
And I'll live with the top speed I get with an 11T cog.
If I find that I run out of power on steep dirt trail climbs using the biggest cog on my cassette I'll save my pennies and upgrade to SRAM's EX-1 11-48T cassette and drive train. (Probably not.... 8) )

eye,
Yes there is a factory throttle for the VLDC-5 display and I'm almost certain I saw a vid with a small button assembly near a grip to change assist levels and maybe cut power with that display.

Thanks so much for posting all the technical stuff above !

I'm set to measure instantaneous power used by the motor and the capacity of whatever pack I end up with by using this:
The only ebike component I have so far... :lol: All the parts were bought from amazon.

Image

Those are XT-90S connectors and 12 ga silicone wire. I'll use it when I want to gather data by plugging it in between the pack and the drive. I'll mount it temporarily somewhere on the top tube.
Last edited by Norton on Jun 27, 2017 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RTIII
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 436
Joined: Jun 02, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Oakland, CA, USA

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RTIII » Jun 27, 2017 1:20 pm

eyebyesickle wrote:I will share the programming software (80+MB .RAR) , and programming information (not very good from factory until I update), but use AT YOUR OWN RISK. The only reason to use it is to raise the RPM and POWER limit...
Tongsheng mid-motor software upgrading.pdf
QQ"dropbox" Programming Software .RAR Link - http://mail.qq.com/cgi-bin/ftnExs_downl ... e=f30dd265

You will need to make your own programming cable.
I'm not able to get the RAR downloaded... I get to the screen that talks about doing the download, then hit the button but keep getting "file not found" after a minute or two of waiting. If anyone here actually gets it downloaded, please upload it as an attachment here so we can all get to it! :D

Meanwhile, I've looked at both the wiring diagram and the PDF about software upgrading and didn't see wiring directions for a programming cable, unless it's written in textual Chinese! Any help appreciated.

...BTW, I was wondering of the USB socket on the VLCD-5 could be used to do this programming, and the "your own" part is because it would take two males instead of a male/female? Hmmm...

Post Reply