New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
casainho   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3528
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: ECO Cycles 850C Bootloader = EASY

Post by casainho » Aug 28 2019 11:46am

sabergo wrote:
Aug 28 2019 10:46am
I received my bootloader and 850C today. Opening the box took longer than updating the firmware. Just follow the posted instructions. BOOM. DONE.

Great widget that is worth every dollar. :bigthumb:
Happy to see this feedback!!

So nice the level that this project achieved. Everyone helping a bit, I think it is natural to be passionate with ebikes and return the joy by helping next ones.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

sabergo   100 µW

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Re: ECO Cycles 850C Bootloader = EASY

Post by sabergo » Aug 28 2019 12:49pm

[/quote]
Happy to see this feedback!!

So nice the level that this project achieved. Everyone helping a bit, I think it is natural to be passionate with ebikes and return the joy by helping next ones.
[/quote]

Thank You Casainho, Buba, eyebicycle and all who contributed and are contributing to the project. Very well done!

mctubster   100 W

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Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Aug 28 2019 6:17pm

Random wiring question

If I have created a wiring harness which has the Bafang style green 5 pin connector at one end - connected to the KT-LCD3, and the TSDZ2 connector at the other end ... electrically will my harness also be compatible with the 850C and SW102?

Cheers

bergerandfries   10 mW

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Posts: 25
Joined: Mar 02 2019 9:47pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bergerandfries » Aug 28 2019 8:43pm

feketehegyi wrote:
Aug 27 2019 1:48pm
mgtroyas wrote:
Aug 27 2019 10:06am
Hello all,

I've been enjoying my TSDZ2 daily on my classic 90s steel 26" MTB for more than a year now, for daily commuting. It's a great motor. But a problem has slowly arised and now it's becoming frustrating. I hope somebody cand point what the origin could be. It's the 2018 350W 36V model with xh18 controller and no brake sensors. I use it with a 36V 20Ah battery.
...
Hello, sounds like problem with main gear - sprag clutch bearing. The problem on mine was not visible, but after I replaced it's been felt again as a new motor.
Blue gear should be also checked. That's visible if blue gear has problem.
I have videos how I replaced both of them on my youtube channel.
I have the same, very rare issue. Do you know the mechanism for the sprag clutch bearing failure causing this? Is it kind of like a positive feedback loop where the sticking bearing continues to apply torque to the shaft and the torque sensor senses torque even though the rider isn't applying pressure to the pedals?

vadda   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 40
Joined: Dec 21 2009 6:22am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by vadda » Aug 29 2019 6:37am

Hi guys,
sorry, maybe the topic has already been treated but now there are hundreds of pages and it's not easy to find what you need.
I have a strong mecanical play on the crown, the engine is a 48V and will have done 500-600Km
I enclose a video .....
Do I have to worry?
What can be done ?

[youtube]https://youtu.be/JLY668oGsq0[/youtube]

raylo32   100 W

100 W
Posts: 101
Joined: Jan 04 2019 3:09pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by raylo32 » Aug 29 2019 6:49am

Yes, you do have a problem, that isn't normal. You need to disassemble it and see what is failing before it strands you somewhere.
vadda wrote:
Aug 29 2019 6:37am
Hi guys,
sorry, maybe the topic has already been treated but now there are hundreds of pages and it's not easy to find what you need.
I have a strong mecanical play on the crown, the engine is a 48V and will have done 500-600Km
I enclose a video .....
Do I have to worry?
What can be done ?

[youtube]https://youtu.be/JLY668oGsq0[/youtube]

ri53hu   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 31
Joined: Apr 30 2018 3:56am
Location: Zlíňák

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ri53hu » Aug 29 2019 10:50am

mctubster-Thank you, everything works. :bigthumb:

RicMcK   100 mW

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Posts: 44
Joined: Jun 19 2019 9:12am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » Aug 29 2019 4:16pm

850c? Can the 850c screen be seen-(easy to read) in bright sunlight with sunglass on? I really like the easy to read lcd5 (b/w). I am asking because I it seems like cell phones are next to impossible to read in the bright sun.
Rick Seattle WA

andrea_104kg   100 W

100 W
Posts: 150
Joined: Mar 05 2018 5:51pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andrea_104kg » Aug 29 2019 4:19pm

vadda wrote:
Aug 29 2019 6:37am
Hi guys,
sorry, maybe the topic has already been treated but now there are hundreds of pages and it's not easy to find what you need.
I have a strong mecanical play on the crown, the engine is a 48V and will have done 500-600Km
I enclose a video .....
Do I have to worry?
What can be done ?

[youtube]https://youtu.be/JLY668oGsq0[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGuWFVq ... e=youtu.be
solved with loctite bearing blocks, but it could also be the free wheel bearing.

sysrq   100 W

100 W
Posts: 105
Joined: May 07 2018 6:05pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Aug 30 2019 1:56am

mctubster wrote:
Mar 14 2019 2:04am
sysrq wrote:
Mar 13 2019 7:07pm

Mine 36 volt version kinda pulls up the small hills using 42t x 28t gearing only with fresh battery and in turbo mode only. If the battery is around 80% or more then the battery level indicator on xh-18 display starts to intermitently sag and motor is struggling. Might be due to CYCBT battery with it's Samsung LiFePO4 cells as they say on the cardboard box, although Samsung is not known for making LiFePO4 cells.
The 36V motor stock puts out 500-550W in its sweet spot ... say 60-80RPM with a full battery.

If you are running under 60 RPM you will be losing higher amounts of power to heat. It is only a little motor it needs to spin.

Other than that it is expectations management given the size of the motor (which is small). It is assist not a pedelec style with higher torque at lower RPMs like the Bafang BBS02.
Finaly decided to upgrade from 14t-28t sprocket set to 13t-34t Shimano/Sturmey-Archer (SunRace) Megarange to stop the motor from growling during relatively long 5% inclines. The "universal" 34t bailout gear might be good enough to increase the Rpm's and reduce probability of premature failure as a dodgy quick fix.

mgtroyas   10 µW

10 µW
Posts: 5
Joined: Oct 11 2018 10:24am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mgtroyas » Aug 30 2019 3:40am

bergerandfries wrote:
Aug 28 2019 8:43pm
feketehegyi wrote:
Aug 27 2019 1:48pm
mgtroyas wrote:
Aug 27 2019 10:06am
Hello all,

I've been enjoying my TSDZ2 daily on my classic 90s steel 26" MTB for more than a year now, for daily commuting. It's a great motor. But a problem has slowly arised and now it's becoming frustrating. I hope somebody cand point what the origin could be. It's the 2018 350W 36V model with xh18 controller and no brake sensors. I use it with a 36V 20Ah battery.
...
Hello, sounds like problem with main gear - sprag clutch bearing. The problem on mine was not visible, but after I replaced it's been felt again as a new motor.
Blue gear should be also checked. That's visible if blue gear has problem.
I have videos how I replaced both of them on my youtube channel.
I have the same, very rare issue. Do you know the mechanism for the sprag clutch bearing failure causing this? Is it kind of like a positive feedback loop where the sticking bearing continues to apply torque to the shaft and the torque sensor senses torque even though the rider isn't applying pressure to the pedals?
Thanks feketehegyi for pointing to the main gear - sprag clutch bearing, initially I only thought about the nylon gear.

So the problem is located on one of the two sides of the motor: right side (sprag clutch) or left side (blue gear). I didn't want to blindly open both and replace parts only to notice it's not being solved (also I only have a blue gear replacement). So I started thinking about it.

The axis on my motor has some milimeters of play, if I grab both pedals and press one up and the other down I can sense it (a local store pointed me to it). Perhaps something is being compressed too much on heavy starts due to that play, then the sudden change of torque plus the friction makes the sensor think the opposing fore is huge and triggers maximum response.

Right side gear is made of iron and has a bearing, left one is nylon and is open, probably the right side will be stronger, less prone to deformation and play. So perhaps depending of the leg is applying force, I'm mainly pressing one part or the other. Will be a difference if I start pedaling strongly with the right leg?

Guess what? It does! 100% of the times I do the first pedal with the right leg, the motor doesn't choke. Tested on two 30min commutes. What a lovely feeling having a trustworthy motor again! So the conclusion I reach is my blue gear is somewhat damaged, starting pedaling with the left leg presses the axis and gear to the other gears and increases friction, starting pedaling with the right leg solves the problem. I'll wait to see the evolution of things but if it works this way I'll wait longer to change the gear, as once engaged, the motor works flawlessly.

So in brief, from my experience:
- Never start from stopped position on long gear, specially on hills. Start on short gears and pedaling gently the first second until the motor revs up.
- When shifting to higher gears, reach a high pedaling cadence before, and relax pedaling during shift, then engage gently to avoid sudden difference in torque.
- Try to always hard start preferably with right leg as that's the stronger part of the motor internals¿?
- If some internal damage is already done, you'll sense some millimiters play on the axe, when grabbing both pedals and twisting it.
- In that case start pedaling from stop with left and right legs to determine which side the broken part is.
- In that case always hard startingwith right leg could solve your problems as that's the stronger part of the motor internals.

mctubster   100 W

100 W
Posts: 174
Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Aug 31 2019 2:15am

RicMcK wrote:
Aug 29 2019 4:16pm
850c? Can the 850c screen be seen-(easy to read) in bright sunlight with sunglass on? I really like the easy to read lcd5 (b/w). I am asking because I it seems like cell phones are next to impossible to read in the bright sun.
I had a 850c on my previous Bafang, it can be tricky to read in bright sunlight at the wrong angles. Not an expensive display by any stretch.

I also prefer the absolute contrast available from a segment LCD.

OLED can be even worst depending on the quality of the display. Even the latest Samsung OLED displays struggle in bright sunlight and eat the battery when being overdriven

casainho   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3528
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Aug 31 2019 4:37am

mctubster wrote:
Aug 31 2019 2:15am
RicMcK wrote:
Aug 29 2019 4:16pm
850c? Can the 850c screen be seen-(easy to read) in bright sunlight with sunglass on? I really like the easy to read lcd5 (b/w). I am asking because I it seems like cell phones are next to impossible to read in the bright sun.
I had a 850c on my previous Bafang, it can be tricky to read in bright sunlight at the wrong angles. Not an expensive display by any stretch.

I also prefer the absolute contrast available from a segment LCD.

OLED can be even worst depending on the quality of the display. Even the latest Samsung OLED displays struggle in bright sunlight and eat the battery when being overdriven
I don't remember anymore how is the contrast of KT-LCD3 but both 850C and SW102 displays aren't simple readable under direct sunlight. I don't think one is better than the other on this characteristic.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and LCDs (KT-LCD3 and Bafang 850C color LCD).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

wpenner   10 W

10 W
Posts: 92
Joined: May 10 2018 3:27pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Aug 31 2019 11:46am

emr wrote:
Aug 15 2019 4:50pm
Retrorockit wrote:
Aug 14 2019 11:57am
emr wrote:
Aug 14 2019 3:58am
QuirkyOrk wrote:
Aug 08 2019 6:11pm
Here in Boston we just had the hottest July on record, so I took it upon myself to do a thermal management mod for the TSDZ2. I was routinely having to dial back my assist usage to stay below 75C on my 23 mile (37km) round trip commute so I decided I would do something about the TSDZ2's awful thermal management (Love the motor overall though).

What I ended up doing was two things...

-I filled the air gap around the motor with a thermally conductive silicone pad so that it now has something to shed the heat to the outer casing other than a not very thermally conductive pocket of air.

-I attached some aluminum fins to the casing of the TSDZ2 so it will cool down quicker. To do this I sanded down the casing to the bare aluminum and then attached some aluminum electronics heatsinks with a thermally conductive epoxy. These work very well as there is constantly air flowing by the bike as it moves along.

These two things have made a huge difference. I pushed the motor extremely hard on my commute yesterday at 4x power multiplier and it never got above 58C. Before when I would use the bike at a much lower assist level I would be right below 75 by the time I got to work.
Looks like we are all suffering from the overheating issue. I recently installed the temp sensor, and was a little disappointed to find the 'E06' showing on the LCD, after only going a short distance (Turbo setting) and when the ambient temp was only app 20C. I raised the temp cut out from 75C to 80C for the power reductions and from 85C to 90C for the power cutoff. I also resigned myself to using a lower power setting (Tour and occasionally speed) to avoid the temp limit. I do miss using the Turbo option though.

Some method to improve the cooling of the motor would definitely be useful. The thermally conductive pads you have tested is an attractive option both for its simplicity and its cost effectiveness. I found that my motor was not particularly hot to the touch when it had reached the temperature cuttoff point, so I suspect that the heat sink fins may not be essential, or possibly a reduced length and quantity. Of course with the heat transfer of the pads, some heat sink might be required.

Thanks for the suggestion and the results of your testing.

Cheers Emma
The motor housing not being hot to the touch is a result of no heat transfer occuring. It's all staying inside the motor. The outside must get hot to transfer heat to the air. If it has fins it may not get very hot either, but that's because it's rapidly transfering the heat it has recieved though the pads, or other device. The heat distributing surface needs to be hotter than the air, but cooler than the desired motor temperature. The hotter the air, the more surface you will need for heat transfer. But first there needs to be a connection between the motor and the cooling surface.
Passive cooling like this can't go below air temperature. The more surface area the closer it can get to that result. It remains to be seen what's actually needed. I'm sure an actual engineer could calculate what's needed. Better TIM costs money, larger heatsinks cost money, thermal sensors cost money. Burnt up motors cost money too. I would start with a better spec. TIM pad (3M?) and then see if you need to add a heatsink. Since you have a thermal sensor it should be obvious.
Thanks Retro.

I have ordered some 6W/m.K sheets (2mm), so will start with applying that to see if it offers a significant improvement. Hopefully that pads will have enough contact with the housing to efficiently transfer the heat.

Emma
Have you tested the 2mm sheets yet? I’m curious if they are worth ordering. 3mm sheets seem less common and harder to find.

wpenner   10 W

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Posts: 92
Joined: May 10 2018 3:27pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by wpenner » Aug 31 2019 11:52am

QuirkyOrk wrote:
Aug 09 2019 2:50pm
ezrider1199 wrote:
Aug 09 2019 2:20pm
QuirkyOrk,

What thermal pad thickness do you recommend? i saw they start at 0.5mm and go up by 0.5mm increments. Thanks
I used these 2mm pads (The only reason I chose these was it shipped from the US and I am inpatient :D )

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Grey-GPU-CPU-H ... 2749.l2649

The 2mm seems to be a good thickness so that one layer of it will just contact the outer shell and still allow the casing to be slotted over. I tried 2 layers of 2mm sheets stacked and I could not get the shell on. On the top of the motor the patches are 2 layers 2mm pads stacked on top of each other. I ordered a couple 3mm pads today and I am going to experiment with those as well.

I actually currently only have about 1/3 of the circumference of the motor, where the gap is the thinnest, covered in thermal padding. There is definitely room to make the contact patch bigger and increase performance even more.
Did you have a chance to test 3mm pads? Did you order them from eBay?

Bartman   10 W

10 W
Posts: 70
Joined: Feb 11 2018 2:38pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bartman » Aug 31 2019 12:44pm

QuirkyOrk wrote:
Aug 08 2019 6:11pm
Here in Boston we just had the hottest July on record, so I took it upon myself to do a thermal management mod for the TSDZ2. I was routinely having to dial back my assist usage to stay below 75C on my 23 mile (37km) round trip commute so I decided I would do something about the TSDZ2's awful thermal management (Love the motor overall though).

What I ended up doing was two things...

-I filled the air gap around the motor with a thermally conductive silicone pad so that it now has something to shed the heat to the outer casing other than a not very thermally conductive pocket of air.

-I attached some aluminum fins to the casing of the TSDZ2 so it will cool down quicker. To do this I sanded down the casing to the bare aluminum and then attached some aluminum electronics heatsinks with a thermally conductive epoxy. These work very well as there is constantly air flowing by the bike as it moves along.

These two things have made a huge difference. I pushed the motor extremely hard on my commute yesterday at 4x power multiplier and it never got above 58C. Before when I would use the bike at a much lower assist level I would be right below 75 by the time I got to work.

I attached some crappy phone pictures below. if there is enough interest I could do some DIY instructions, but overall it was not a very complicated process.

IMG_20190807_104330 copy.jpgIMG_20190806_205516.jpgIMG_20190806_205509.jpgIMG_20190806_202748.jpg
Brilliant. How do you stick the silicon pads onto the motor ? And do you have a link to the heatsinks ? Did they bend easily ?

andrea_104kg   100 W

100 W
Posts: 150
Joined: Mar 05 2018 5:51pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andrea_104kg » Aug 31 2019 4:55pm

an example of broken freewheel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-BmQcK4ZO8
tsdz2 48v 750w about 1200km

emr   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 37
Joined: Apr 22 2018 5:37am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by emr » Aug 31 2019 5:14pm

wpenner wrote:
Aug 31 2019 11:46am
emr wrote:
Aug 15 2019 4:50pm
Retrorockit wrote:
Aug 14 2019 11:57am
emr wrote:
Aug 14 2019 3:58am


Looks like we are all suffering from the overheating issue. I recently installed the temp sensor, and was a little disappointed to find the 'E06' showing on the LCD, after only going a short distance (Turbo setting) and when the ambient temp was only app 20C. I raised the temp cut out from 75C to 80C for the power reductions and from 85C to 90C for the power cutoff. I also resigned myself to using a lower power setting (Tour and occasionally speed) to avoid the temp limit. I do miss using the Turbo option though.

Some method to improve the cooling of the motor would definitely be useful. The thermally conductive pads you have tested is an attractive option both for its simplicity and its cost effectiveness. I found that my motor was not particularly hot to the touch when it had reached the temperature cuttoff point, so I suspect that the heat sink fins may not be essential, or possibly a reduced length and quantity. Of course with the heat transfer of the pads, some heat sink might be required.

Thanks for the suggestion and the results of your testing.

Cheers Emma
The motor housing not being hot to the touch is a result of no heat transfer occuring. It's all staying inside the motor. The outside must get hot to transfer heat to the air. If it has fins it may not get very hot either, but that's because it's rapidly transfering the heat it has recieved though the pads, or other device. The heat distributing surface needs to be hotter than the air, but cooler than the desired motor temperature. The hotter the air, the more surface you will need for heat transfer. But first there needs to be a connection between the motor and the cooling surface.
Passive cooling like this can't go below air temperature. The more surface area the closer it can get to that result. It remains to be seen what's actually needed. I'm sure an actual engineer could calculate what's needed. Better TIM costs money, larger heatsinks cost money, thermal sensors cost money. Burnt up motors cost money too. I would start with a better spec. TIM pad (3M?) and then see if you need to add a heatsink. Since you have a thermal sensor it should be obvious.
Thanks Retro.

I have ordered some 6W/m.K sheets (2mm), so will start with applying that to see if it offers a significant improvement. Hopefully that pads will have enough contact with the housing to efficiently transfer the heat.

Emma
Have you tested the 2mm sheets yet? I’m curious if they are worth ordering. 3mm sheets seem less common and harder to find.
I haven't fitted the conductive pads as yet. I will update when I have I have fitted and tested.
Unless there is good contact between the conductive pads and the casing, they may not be that effective, but worth a try.

sysrq   100 W

100 W
Posts: 105
Joined: May 07 2018 6:05pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Aug 31 2019 7:37pm

Decided to order this fragile single use tacky (sticky) Gelid 80x40x2mm 12W/mK thermal pad instead of temperature sensitive labels for 36V 350W version with four day Prime delivery. Since nobody ever said anything about filling the external motor casing with oil then that's probably not the best idea.
https://www.electronics-cooling.com/200 ... of-fluids/
https://www.intechopen.com/books/nanofl ... errofluids
search.php?keywords=Nanofluids+&t=48753&sf=msgonly
Last edited by sysrq on Aug 31 2019 10:42pm, edited 2 times in total.

bergerandfries   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 25
Joined: Mar 02 2019 9:47pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bergerandfries » Aug 31 2019 8:41pm

Genius!
mgtroyas wrote:
Aug 30 2019 3:40am
bergerandfries wrote:
Aug 28 2019 8:43pm
feketehegyi wrote:
Aug 27 2019 1:48pm
mgtroyas wrote:
Aug 27 2019 10:06am
Hello all,

I've been enjoying my TSDZ2 daily on my classic 90s steel 26" MTB for more than a year now, for daily commuting. It's a great motor. But a problem has slowly arised and now it's becoming frustrating. I hope somebody cand point what the origin could be. It's the 2018 350W 36V model with xh18 controller and no brake sensors. I use it with a 36V 20Ah battery.
...
Hello, sounds like problem with main gear - sprag clutch bearing. The problem on mine was not visible, but after I replaced it's been felt again as a new motor.
Blue gear should be also checked. That's visible if blue gear has problem.
I have videos how I replaced both of them on my youtube channel.
I have the same, very rare issue. Do you know the mechanism for the sprag clutch bearing failure causing this? Is it kind of like a positive feedback loop where the sticking bearing continues to apply torque to the shaft and the torque sensor senses torque even though the rider isn't applying pressure to the pedals?
Thanks feketehegyi for pointing to the main gear - sprag clutch bearing, initially I only thought about the nylon gear.

So the problem is located on one of the two sides of the motor: right side (sprag clutch) or left side (blue gear). I didn't want to blindly open both and replace parts only to notice it's not being solved (also I only have a blue gear replacement). So I started thinking about it.

The axis on my motor has some milimeters of play, if I grab both pedals and press one up and the other down I can sense it (a local store pointed me to it). Perhaps something is being compressed too much on heavy starts due to that play, then the sudden change of torque plus the friction makes the sensor think the opposing fore is huge and triggers maximum response.

Right side gear is made of iron and has a bearing, left one is nylon and is open, probably the right side will be stronger, less prone to deformation and play. So perhaps depending of the leg is applying force, I'm mainly pressing one part or the other. Will be a difference if I start pedaling strongly with the right leg?

Guess what? It does! 100% of the times I do the first pedal with the right leg, the motor doesn't choke. Tested on two 30min commutes. What a lovely feeling having a trustworthy motor again! So the conclusion I reach is my blue gear is somewhat damaged, starting pedaling with the left leg presses the axis and gear to the other gears and increases friction, starting pedaling with the right leg solves the problem. I'll wait to see the evolution of things but if it works this way I'll wait longer to change the gear, as once engaged, the motor works flawlessly.

So in brief, from my experience:
- Never start from stopped position on long gear, specially on hills. Start on short gears and pedaling gently the first second until the motor revs up.
- When shifting to higher gears, reach a high pedaling cadence before, and relax pedaling during shift, then engage gently to avoid sudden difference in torque.
- Try to always hard start preferably with right leg as that's the stronger part of the motor internals¿?
- If some internal damage is already done, you'll sense some millimiters play on the axe, when grabbing both pedals and twisting it.
- In that case start pedaling from stop with left and right legs to determine which side the broken part is.
- In that case always hard startingwith right leg could solve your problems as that's the stronger part of the motor internals.

QuirkyOrk   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 9
Joined: Mar 01 2019 5:20pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by QuirkyOrk » Aug 31 2019 10:28pm

wpenner wrote:
Aug 31 2019 11:52am
Did you have a chance to test 3mm pads? Did you order them from eBay?
I received the 3mm pads, but haven't tested them at all as I have been very busy(in the process of moving currently). I am also generally satisfied with the cooling performance I'm getting at the moment with the pads I have in there. When I have more time I will mess around with the 3mm pads and make a DIY guide. If you want to give it a go and have any specific questions for me I'd be happy to help! :D
Bartman wrote:
Aug 31 2019 12:44pm

Brilliant. How do you stick the silicon pads onto the motor ? And do you have a link to the heatsinks ? Did they bend easily ?
The pad material is tacky and will stick to the motor by itself (though it is not a strong hold). Between that stickiness and the motor housing keeping it in place you will be all set.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stock-10pcs ... 2749.l2649

These are what I used, though in retrospect they are a little tall and stick out quite a bit. The shorter one on the bottom in the picture is a random electronics heatsink I had in my workshop. They bend relatively easily. If you have a vice and some pliers it isn't very difficult.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pcs-20x20x1 ... 2749.l2649

^^^^These are a little shorter and would probably be more low key. I think they would still provide plenty of heat dissipation.

sysrq   100 W

100 W
Posts: 105
Joined: May 07 2018 6:05pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Aug 31 2019 10:48pm

QuirkyOrk wrote:
Aug 31 2019 10:28pm
wpenner wrote:
Aug 31 2019 11:52am
Did you have a chance to test 3mm pads? Did you order them from eBay?
I received the 3mm pads, but haven't tested them at all as I have been very busy(in the process of moving currently). I am also generally satisfied with the cooling performance I'm getting at the moment with the pads I have in there. When I have more time I will mess around with the 3mm pads and make a DIY guide. If you want to give it a go and have any specific questions for me I'd be happy to help! :D
Bartman wrote:
Aug 31 2019 12:44pm

Brilliant. How do you stick the silicon pads onto the motor ? And do you have a link to the heatsinks ? Did they bend easily ?
The pad material is tacky and will stick to the motor by itself (though it is not a strong hold). Between that stickiness and the motor housing keeping it in place you will be all set.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stock-10pcs ... 2749.l2649

These are what I used, though in retrospect they are a little tall and stick out quite a bit. The shorter one on the bottom in the picture is a random electronics heatsink I had in my workshop. They bend relatively easily. If you have a vice and some pliers it isn't very difficult.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pcs-20x20x1 ... 2749.l2649

^^^^These are a little shorter and would probably be more low key. I think they would still provide plenty of heat dissipation.
Wouldn't it be easier to make and probably braze or solder on some straight typical looking cooling fins. Not sure if heat sinks can be bent with exactly the same radius.

sysrq   100 W

100 W
Posts: 105
Joined: May 07 2018 6:05pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Sep 01 2019 6:52am

Not sure if 2mm thermal pad will work since laminated steel core (the most direct heat path) is not in the same level with the alloy end covers.

Elinx   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 26
Joined: Aug 09 2019 6:58am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Sep 01 2019 7:12am

sysrq wrote:
Sep 01 2019 6:52am
Not sure if 2mm thermal pad will work since laminated steel core (the most direct heat path) is not in the same level with the alloy end covers.
With 2mm pads I was thinking to build this with several layers.
First layer direct on the lamited steelcore, between mounting screws and end covers, the second layer around this first layer and mayby a third layer include the endcaps too.
I have ordered also some 2mm pads too, so I haven't tried this, maybe building like this the (or some) layers should be thinner.
The gap between the top of the motor and outer case can be solved with sticking a circular pad into the outer case.
For best conductivity there must be some pressure between the pads and outer case.

The solution to use conductive silicon putty is also a good one, because you fill all gaps at once when you put the outer case on the motor. Only I am not sure how the hardening process works if this putty is covered with foil and eventually the outer case.

QuirkyOrk   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 9
Joined: Mar 01 2019 5:20pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by QuirkyOrk » Sep 01 2019 7:42am

sysrq wrote:
Aug 31 2019 10:48pm
Wouldn't it be easier to make and probably braze or solder on some straight typical looking cooling fins. Not sure if heat sinks can be bent with exactly the same radius.
It's actually really pretty easy to bend them if you just do it little by little and check it against the casing until it is flush. Took me 5-10 minutes.
Elinx wrote:
Sep 01 2019 7:12am
sysrq wrote:
Sep 01 2019 6:52am
Not sure if 2mm thermal pad will work since laminated steel core (the most direct heat path) is not in the same level with the alloy end covers.
With 2mm pads I was thinking to build this with several layers.
First layer direct on the lamited steelcore, between mounting screws and end covers, the second layer around this first layer and mayby a third layer include the endcaps too.
I have ordered also some 2mm pads too, so I haven't tried this, maybe building like this the (or some) layers should be thinner.
The gap between the top of the motor and outer case can be solved with sticking a circular pad into the outer case.
For best conductivity there must be some pressure between the pads and outer case.

The solution to use conductive silicon putty is also a good one, because you fill all gaps at once when you put the outer case on the motor. Only I am not sure how the hardening process works if this putty is covered with foil and eventually the outer case.
Yeah the pads stick to themselves so I just added an extra layer in the middle channel part of the motor so it would be flush with the rest of the body.

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