New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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valsam   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by valsam » Oct 18 2019 5:14pm

I am interested in buying a 750w TSDZ2 but all i read searching the interenet is that it is very unreliable!
Is this true,is the TSDZ2 so badly unreliable because the last thing i want is to be fixing and buying parts all the time?
As hard i have googled i can not find any where someone writing about how many miles or km he has made without any issues ,is there anyone that has done 10-15.000 kms or miles trouble free with a TSDZ2?

Rvs4   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Rvs4 » Oct 18 2019 11:25pm

casainho wrote:
Oct 18 2019 3:27am
Rvs4 wrote:
Oct 17 2019 4:11pm
Ok, I'm having another problem. Can anyone help??? I had to change out my sprag clutch because of it slipping when pedaling. But right before I changed it and now even after I changed it I'm having a new issue. I will be pedaling in either Tour or Eco mode and all of a sudden it will accelerate like it's in turbo mode. It has even accelerated on its own without pressing the pedals or throttle. Now what do i do? Please help
Install our OpenSource firmware so you can debug the issue to find which sensor is failing.
So, I rode about 45 miles today and the problem has disappeared. I'm hoping it was just a fluke when changing the main gear out. I am though, considering installing your open source firmware. I haven't read everything yet, but apparently I need a new display and have to solder the connection. Is there any way around soldering?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Oct 19 2019 2:30am

Rvs4 wrote:
Oct 18 2019 11:25pm
.......... I am though, considering installing your open source firmware. I haven't read everything yet, but apparently I need a new display and have to solder the connection. Is there any way around soldering?
If you don't want to renew your display at once and first want to try the OSF, you can do this too using the original display with Marcoq's fork.
The difference is that you must insert the control settings before flashing with an java interface and can change them only partly on the fly.

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feketehegyi   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by feketehegyi » Oct 19 2019 10:41am

Aquakitty wrote:
Oct 16 2019 10:06pm
casainho wrote:
Oct 16 2019 9:32pm
Bartman wrote:
Oct 09 2019 7:21am
I see there’s now a standard TSDZ2 available that has Bluetooth connectivity. A few Europe s sellers on eBay have it.
An user told me that TSDZ2 Bluetooth version is in fact the regular TSDZ2 + VLCD7 display that has Bluetooth inside: http://www.tsbicycle.net/index.php/content/150

Since VLCD7 is not graphic and is kind of ugly, I think we are best served with the SW102.
Ah, thanks for the update. I was kind of fantasizing about a bluetooth enabled TSDZ2 that could interface with a PC. I was curious about interfacing the SW102's I have on order with a PC instead, like use it for power meter in Zwift for instance?
Last year I did this with a PC. Before I developed my Android App I was testing the communication with a PC or MAC. Now my TSDZ2 has the bluetooth module already inside of the motor house. So mine is a bluetooth enabled TSDZ2 already.
Here's my PC testing summary video. If you click on my youtube channel you can find my bluetooth and TSDZ2 related videos as well.

Retrorockit   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Oct 19 2019 8:11pm

valsam wrote:
Oct 18 2019 5:14pm
I am interested in buying a 750w TSDZ2 but all i read searching the interenet is that it is very unreliable!
Is this true,is the TSDZ2 so badly unreliable because the last thing i want is to be fixing and buying parts all the time?
As hard i have googled i can not find any where someone writing about how many miles or km he has made without any issues ,is there anyone that has done 10-15.000 kms or miles trouble free with a TSDZ2?
If you want reliability the Bafang BBSHD is as good as it gets. Even at 1500W they're reliable. PAS isn't an option though. At 750-1000W the BBS02 is pretty good also. The TSDZ2 is basically a 350W 20mph motor that can make 750W for a short time. Unless something breaks. Reliability with a BBSHD relates to tearing up driveline parts. A Sturmey Archer 3 speed IGH with a big single speed chain is considered reliable.

weatherman   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by weatherman » Oct 22 2019 6:06am

Hi guys,

I'm new here, I've been reading everything available ... And now I have a problem. :)

I've installed TSDZ2, made 260 km, no issues until today.

Today the engine did not engage. I put the bike on the stand, removed the crank and chain and put the throttle working.
The motor behaves erratically, when the throttle is put to maximum.

Have you seen this issue?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10FQ9Pc ... p=drivesdk

TE and TE1 value are at 104.

I've contacted psw power store (no reply yet).

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 22 2019 7:52am

weatherman wrote:
Oct 22 2019 6:06am
Hi guys,

I'm new here, I've been reading everything available ... And now I have a problem. :)

I've installed TSDZ2, made 260 km, no issues until today.

Today the engine did not engage. I put the bike on the stand, removed the crank and chain and put the throttle working.
The motor behaves erratically, when the throttle is put to maximum.

Have you seen this issue?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10FQ9Pc ... p=drivesdk

TE and TE1 value are at 104.

I've contacted psw power store (no reply yet).

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks!
I think is probably your fault because you didn't installed the brake sensors and now the blue gear is broken.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

weatherman   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by weatherman » Oct 22 2019 10:00am

Hi Casainho,

Thank you for your feedback!
I thought the blue gear failure would manifest itself by some sort of mechanical noise ...
This happened from day to night. Yesterday it was working fine.

So, I've ordered the metal gear and I'll install the brake sensors, when the metal gear arrives.

Is there any other test that I can do to exclude any other issues?

Thanks!

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 22 2019 12:08pm

weatherman wrote:
Oct 22 2019 10:00am
Hi Casainho,

Thank you for your feedback!
I thought the blue gear failure would manifest itself by some sort of mechanical noise ...
This happened from day to night. Yesterday it was working fine.

So, I've ordered the metal gear and I'll install the brake sensors, when the metal gear arrives.

Is there any other test that I can do to exclude any other issues?

Thanks!
Open the motor and see by yourself, see how is the blue gear.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

windburner   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by windburner » Oct 22 2019 1:35pm

weatherman wrote:
Oct 22 2019 6:06am
... I have a problem. ... I've installed TSDZ2, made 260 km, ... Today the engine did not engage. ...
The behavior on the video looks very similar to the way these units respond when they perceives an over-voltage situation, with the factory firmware. Did you happen to charge it just prior to this use? I see from the video that the battery indicator shows full.

While mine does not display this behavior when I run the Flexible Open Source Firmware, it has displayed this behavior since new with the factory firmware. Some have shipped there units back, and they are sent back working fine.

For my unit, when running the factory firmware, all I needed to do was drain of ~0.2 volts from the battery, and it was good to go. I have a 48V system, and when my digital voltmeters shows 54.2 volts for a freshly charged battery, the controller reports about 1.4 volts higher!!! So, I'd drain it to ~54.0 with the lights I ordered with the kit. Can you try something like this?

Finally, and again with the factory firmware, I found that I could ride with a freshly charged battery by turning on the lights for the first two or so minutes of the ride. (Getting away from this without sending it back to China has been the one big benefit of the OS firmware for me, but it come with the price of fine-tuning the OSF to fit your preferences, and, it is yet a work in process.)
TerraTrike Rover Tandem - TSDZ2 48V 750W - 13AH Batteries - VLCD6-->SW102 with v0.5.0-beta-4 OSF

weatherman   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by weatherman » Oct 22 2019 5:39pm

The behavior on the video looks very similar to the way these units respond when they perceives an over-voltage situation, with the factory firmware. Did you happen to charge it just prior to this use? I see from the video that the battery indicator shows full.
Hi windburner,

Thank you for the feedback.

I usually charge battery when I arrive home, from work, and use it the next morning. So, as usual, this time I charged the battery, maybe 8-10 hours before using it.

Tomorrow, I'll follow Casainho's suggestion. I'll open the motor and check what's the current condition of the blue gear.

If it is ok, I thing the next step will be to power the motor with a DC 48V (max 16A) power supply and check if the behaviour is ok, slowly ramping up the voltage until this issue appears.

Thank you all... and any other suggestions are welcome.

Regards!

PS - The engine is a 48V 750W bought from PSW store and battery is from eclipse bikes (18650 30Q - 48V 12Ah)

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Oct 22 2019 5:48pm

weatherman wrote:
Oct 22 2019 5:39pm
The behavior on the video looks very similar to the way these units respond when they perceives an over-voltage situation, with the factory firmware. Did you happen to charge it just prior to this use? I see from the video that the battery indicator shows full.
Hi windburner,

Thank you for the feedback.

I usually charge battery when I arrive home, from work, and use it the next morning. So, as usual, this time I charged the battery, maybe 8-10 hours before using it.

Tomorrow, I'll follow Casainho's suggestion. I'll open the motor and check what's the current condition of the blue gear.

If it is ok, I thing the next step will be to power the motor with a DC 48V (max 16A) power supply and check if the behaviour is ok, slowly ramping up the voltage until this issue appears.

Thank you all... and any other suggestions are welcome.

Regards!

PS - The engine is a 48V 750W bought from PSW store and battery is from eclipse bikes (18650 30Q - 48V 12Ah)
I would reverse the order, try the bench power supply at 48V first. It does not sound like a mechanical issue - this has been seen before by others.

manoz   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz » Oct 22 2019 6:10pm

So today while out for a ride, about to set off at a traffic light I heard a snap and my leg slipped. The driveside crank had sheared clean off. Only done about 1200 miles on the motor. This happened to anyone else? What are the chances of claiming a warranty replacement? I bought it off the ebird store on aliexpress.

Image

LeftCoastNurd   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Oct 23 2019 1:33am

re:
manoz wrote:
Oct 22 2019 6:10pm
So today while out for a ride, about to set off at a traffic light I heard a snap and my leg slipped. The driveside crank had sheared clean off. Only done about 1200 miles on the motor. This happened to anyone else? What are the chances of claiming a warranty replacement? I bought it off the ebird store on aliexpress.
whoa. I snapped a BB just once, was an early Phil Wood bottom bracket I'd just installed on my old Motobecane Grand Record roadie... I was a masher in my younger days, liked to stomp on tall gears. Was running a 54-42 front (campy cranks) and a 'straight block' rear (13-14-15-16-17) when I lived one summer in the flatlands. I forget (hey, it was 40 years ago), but I bet I was trying to launch at a light in 54:16 or something. anyways, I stood on it and it snapped clean off on the non-drive side. I managed to limp home riding with my right leg only, hah hah (straps and toeclips, this was the mid 70s)

you know what gear you were in ? With a mid drive, its pretty important to downshift before stopping, just like with a pure-pedal bike.

LeftCoastNurd   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Oct 23 2019 1:36am

so... Can I use the FOSS TSDZ2 firmware with a XH18 display/control? I'm building up a TSDZ2 bike for my brother, using his 1999 vintage Trek 6000 mountain bike. Took first test ride today with the stock 48V firmware setup for 500W, and not 100% happy with the PAS performance or the power curve...


Image

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Oct 23 2019 2:15am

btw, with a kit like these, what do you all usually do with the excess wiring? I'm thinking of trying to fold it up fairly tightly just forward of the bottom bracket, and wrapping it to the lower end of the downtube with silicone 'fusion' tape, then wrapping the exposed wire runs in spiral loom tiewrapped to the frame.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Drum » Oct 23 2019 3:05am

Beware of taping the cable carrying the power to the motor tightly against any of the other cables. There have been reports of strange problems caused by "crosstalk" between the motor cable and sensor cables. It would be a good idea to keep the motor cable separate from sensor cables etc.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Oct 23 2019 3:39am

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Oct 23 2019 1:36am
.... Can I use the FOSS TSDZ2 firmware with a XH18 display/control? ....
Yes you can, but you must use Marcoq's fork.
Here you can find more info

LeftCoastNurd   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Oct 23 2019 3:42am

Drum wrote:
Oct 23 2019 3:05am
Beware of taping the cable carrying the power to the motor tightly against any of the other cables. There have been reports of strange problems caused by "crosstalk" between the motor cable and sensor cables. It would be a good idea to keep the motor cable separate from sensor cables etc.
hmm. with the TSDZ2, the 'motor cable' is entirely internal, so I presume you mean the battery cable?

with the battery on the downtube, all the wires to the bars are going to be going the same way, but at least this battery cable has a much better gauge than the 1000W rear hub motor I put on my wife's bike, where the 3 motor phases were on scary thin wire that gets really hot even with a 500W limit. since those have to fit through the axle, there's not much of an option, although I have been considering putting a connector right near the axle on the seat stay, and using a heavier gauge the rest of the way... catch-22, there's not only 3 power wires to the motor, there's also 5-6 control wires, so this connector would be pretty bulky.

anyways, I'l take this into advisement, and try and shorten and wrap the power wires separately from the rest. actually, I'm thinking of getting rid of the stupid bullet connectors on the battery tray and just soldering the wires from the TSDZ2 directly to the battery tray since its not going anywhere...

LeftCoastNurd   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Oct 23 2019 3:52am

Elinx wrote:
Oct 23 2019 3:39am
LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Oct 23 2019 1:36am
.... Can I use the FOSS TSDZ2 firmware with a XH18 display/control? ....
Yes you can, but you must use Marcoq's fork.
Here you can find more info
ah, cool....

Probably when I buy a TSDZ2 for my own bike, i'll go ahead and get the 820 preferred display panel, as I don't want to be depedent on a fringe fork.. i was trying to stay away from a big display panel because on my own bike, I'm running a fairly short straight bar, and with the stuff I already have on the bars, there's just not much room, but I'll be getting rid of the speedo and headlight in favor of fork mounted headlights, and the ebike speedo so I can probably make it all fit. that and my first ride today with the XH18, I wasn't that happy with how it worked. it seemed like a better idea in theory than in practice. I like my Ergon ergo grips ...

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Oct 23 2019 4:05am

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Oct 23 2019 3:52am
..............

ah, cool....

Probably when I buy a TSDZ2 for my own bike, i'll go ahead and get the 820 preferred display panel, as I don't want to be depedent on a fringe fork.. ...........
If you use the preferred display (KT.lcd3-850C-SW102) you can setup and try all settings with this display.
If you want to use a default display (vlcd5-vlcd6-xh18), all settings must be done, before flashing, with an Java interface.
The latest version is based on the stable v.19.0
Last edited by Elinx on Oct 23 2019 5:07am, edited 1 time in total.

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 23 2019 4:15am

Drum wrote:
Oct 23 2019 3:05am
Beware of taping the cable carrying the power to the motor tightly against any of the other cables. There have been reports of strange problems caused by "crosstalk" between the motor cable and sensor cables. It would be a good idea to keep the motor cable separate from sensor cables etc.
No reports in TSDZ2 for crosstalk. I always put my ebikes cables tight between them and it works very well. TSDZ2 hardware have low pass filters to avoid electric interference on the cables due to crosstalk.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

LeftCoastNurd   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Oct 23 2019 4:48am

casainho wrote:
Oct 23 2019 4:15am
No reports in TSDZ2 for crosstalk. I always put my ebikes cables tight between them and it works very well. TSDZ2 hardware have low pass filters to avoid electric interference on the cables due to crosstalk.
excellent.

so... when you're building a bike, if the kit wires are too long, do you

1) fold up the excess and tape/tie it off?
2) cut off the connectors, and solder+shrinkwrap the wires so they are just the right length?
3) open up the various endpoints, and shorten the wires from that end, leaving the connectors on the ends ?

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Oct 23 2019 5:01am

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Oct 23 2019 4:48am
casainho wrote:
Oct 23 2019 4:15am
No reports in TSDZ2 for crosstalk. I always put my ebikes cables tight between them and it works very well. TSDZ2 hardware have low pass filters to avoid electric interference on the cables due to crosstalk.
excellent.

so... when you're building a bike, if the kit wires are too long, do you

1) fold up the excess and tape/tie it off?
2) cut off the connectors, and solder+shrinkwrap the wires so they are just the right length?
3) open up the various endpoints, and shorten the wires from that end, leaving the connectors on the ends ?
2. cut off the connectors, and solder+shrinkwrap the wires so they are just the right length. Connectors can fail more after some time, based on my experience with TSDZ2 on few family ebikes, so, I avoid connectors. And I prefer to have cables with right length so installation is more clean.
Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBike motor controllers (TSDZ2 and KT) and displays (Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3).

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

LeftCoastNurd   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Oct 23 2019 5:25am

casainho wrote:
Oct 23 2019 5:01am
2. cut off the connectors, and solder+shrinkwrap the wires so they are just the right length. Connectors can fail more after some time, based on my experience with TSDZ2 on few family ebikes, so, I avoid connectors. And I prefer to have cables with right length so installation is more clean.
cool. ok. I should get some marine shrinkwrap... I know how to stagger splices so cables aren't too lumpy, and will use an outer larger shrinkwrap casing for the whole splice, or wrap it in spiral loom.... this will take some planning to get right, as the bike is getting lights, too, so more wires.

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