New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Nov 22 2019 11:39am

manoz85 wrote:
Nov 22 2019 9:21am
My motor didn't come with gold washers, neither did my first one. I take it the gold washers are only in the older models with straight cut gears?
Did it come with flat black washers? Or any washers? I've seen motors come with, or without them... Might have to do with part manufacturing tolerances, might have to do with bad Assembly line practices... Would explain why some people have more play... Either way, I'd still go for the thinner washers so you can minimize the space...

manoz85   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz85 » Nov 22 2019 11:54am

ImpulsePurchase wrote:
Nov 22 2019 11:20am
Wow. That's your problem then. First person who I have seen that has reported a crack in the torque sensor casing.
This is actually out of my old motor, I haven't opened up my current broken one but I'm assuming I'll find the same thing

manoz85   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz85 » Nov 22 2019 11:56am

eyebyesickle wrote:
Nov 22 2019 11:39am
manoz85 wrote:
Nov 22 2019 9:21am
My motor didn't come with gold washers, neither did my first one. I take it the gold washers are only in the older models with straight cut gears?
Did it come with flat black washers? Or any washers? I've seen motors come with, or without them... Might have to do with part manufacturing tolerances, might have to do with bad Assembly line practices... Would explain why some people have more play... Either way, I'd still go for the thinner washers so you can minimize the space...
It came with the wavy black washer between the circlip and bearing. Only one on the the non-drive side

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Nov 24 2019 12:13am

famichiki wrote:
Nov 21 2019 12:26am

I can't figure out how these end up being offset so much to the right. Looking at the dimensions diagram, I calculate 69.8mm to the left and 80.2mm to the right when used with a 68mm bottom bracket. This makes only 10.4mm offset to the right. Do both factory cranks arms have equal offset?
I can see 16mm to the right just using the dimensions in the diagram (outside edge of bracket to chainring) + the undimensioned chainring to the axle emerging (which I assume to be approx 10mm). Am I missing something?

RDJEHV   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RDJEHV » Nov 24 2019 2:37pm

RDJEHV wrote:
Nov 21 2019 10:18am
I just loaded the bootloader/firmware to the sw102 and on the tsdz2.
Then connected the battery, brake and display to the tsdz2 following the instructions on the wiki.

During first power on the screen shows 'error 30' after a few seconds.
I did not have time to troubleshoot the connections yet, anyone know the logic behind this error?
BTW: I opened the sw102 display (I did not yet read Bluetooth support was coming at that time). But I did not solder to the display, instead I made a 'connecter' from a piece of plastic.
It worked wonderfully well.

(I still have to fix the 'error 30')

Https://ibb.co/jVHR2mn
Https://ibb.co/t2XbJ5t
https://ibb.co/wCXxcvY

windburner   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by windburner » Nov 24 2019 3:59pm

RDJEHV wrote:
Nov 24 2019 2:37pm
... I did not solder to the display, instead I made a 'connecter' from a piece of plastic. It worked wonderfully well.
Neat! If I were doing it again, I'd try that, as I had a time with soldering in the tight space. Really appreciate that subsequent updates can be done via Bluetooth.
TerraTrike Rover Tandem - TSDZ2 48V 750W - 13AH Batteries - VLCD6-->SW102 with v0.6.7 OSF

ImpulsePurchase   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ImpulsePurchase » Nov 25 2019 1:21pm

Did anybody find an acceptable spring for the torque sensor? Mine snapped whilst trying to wind back into shape and my replacement torque sensor didn't have any included

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 25 2019 4:41pm

ImpulsePurchase wrote:
Nov 25 2019 1:21pm
Did anybody find an acceptable spring for the torque sensor? Mine snapped whilst trying to wind back into shape and my replacement torque sensor didn't have any included
Ask to sellers like PSWPower, even if they haven't it listed, they sell it.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

manoz85   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz85 » Nov 26 2019 9:00pm

So I sent the pic of broken torque sensor to ebird store and they asked for a pic of the motor on the bike in relation to the chainstays. I sent them the pic and they say the motor is too close to the frame and I should increase the gap by putting a washer on or bending the frame. Obviously I'm not going to bend the frame but where can I get a washer that increases the gap? just a couple of mm.

LeftCoastNurd   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Nov 26 2019 9:04pm

manoz85 wrote:
Nov 26 2019 9:00pm
So I sent the pic of broken torque sensor to ebird store and they asked for a pic of the motor on the bike in relation to the chainstays. I sent them the pic and they say the motor is too close to the frame and I should increase the gap by putting a washer on or bending the frame. Obviously I'm not going to bend the frame but where can I get a washer that increases the gap? just a couple of mm.
which part of the frame is it too close to? and a washer to increase which gap ?

knutselmaaster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Nov 27 2019 1:46am

manoz85 wrote:
Nov 26 2019 9:00pm
So I sent the pic of broken torque sensor to ebird store and they asked for a pic of the motor on the bike in relation to the chainstays. I sent them the pic and they say the motor is too close to the frame and I should increase the gap by putting a washer on or bending the frame. Obviously I'm not going to bend the frame but where can I get a washer that increases the gap? just a couple of mm.
Your local bike shop will certainly have plenty.
They're called bracket spacers.

Retrorockit   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Nov 27 2019 10:12am

I'm going to share my experience with "chain testing" on my 1500W BBSHD bike.
I used the park Tool CC-2 Chain Checker.
https://www.parktool.com/product/chain-checker-cc-2
I use this because it puts a number on the amount of chain stretch. This can reflect not only the state of wear but the strength and precision of a new chain. A No=Go type gauge just tells you when the chain is worn out. I look at what stretch a chain breaks in at and how long it holds that figure. I can also decide to rotate that chain onto an unpowered bike while it's still in spec. This will prevent wear to the special chainrings many of us run on our E bikes. A worn chain has a longer pitch than a new one, and directs all the force onto one link until the cog wears to match the increased pitch. You end up replacing everything if this goes on too long.
My climate is often damp and windy, sandy environment, and hard acceleration and high speed operation (+30mph)are normal. No long climbs though. On the advice of a couple local bike shops I use wax based lubricants. Both melted wax soaking and external apllication. I tried installing chains with just the factory lube which is supposed to be the best, but found that in my environment they rust. This is cosmetic but I now drip wax the chain before installation.
I tried the KMC Z chain. I found the removable link to be too fragile. It bent over and became tight on the chain and hard to remove. It also stretched fairly quickly. To be fair the BBSHD was causing a learn as you go situation regarding driveline maintenenace and would have lasted longer if I had taken better care of it. Also my bike runs a flat 50T ring and 8 speed casette. It's badly cross chained in the 2 lowest gears. They get used without power for sidewalk use around pedestrians. This is probably why the link folded. I next tried the Wippermann 8SE E bike chain to see what it was all about. I had used their 8SX stainless steel chain on my XC bike and liked it.
It broke in at .2mm stretch and stayed there a while. Then gradually went out to .25, and when removed after 6 months it was at.5mm, which according to the Park Tool chart is a new chain.
The Wippermann Connex link worked and didn't stretch or deform. They say not to reuse, but with my obsessive lubing program that could get expensive so I got into the habit of reusing it then forgot about replacemnet completely. Eventually it "removed itself from service" on it's own. Fortunately my front roller chain guide kept it on the chainring and it fell harmlessly on the concrete bike path I was on. A spare link would have got me going again. But I had a nice long walk to where I could ne picked up. At least it wasn't one of my midnight rides. I did have a spare chain already. When I installed it there was a problem with the chain skipping in the top 3 cogs. It was traced doen to a defective Connex Link. Enough of the 2 piece links for me. That chain could have gone into the spokes of my rear wheel at speed in traffic. On the advice of my LBS mechanic I had purchased a Rohloff Revolver 2 chain splicing tool.
https://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/_migra ... er2.en.pdf
These are not cheap, but neither are Wipperman Connex links when replaced often. I ended up having my LBS rivet the chain on. Not much choice really I was out of Connex links. But for my application and riding environment I think it's the reasonable choice.
I found the Wippermann 8SE to be up to the challenge.
The Connex link is a strong part but not as durable as the chain. If replaced often, and carry a spare, it's a useful part.
The Rohloff Revolver 2 is the solution for me. They're up to version 3 which can do 11-12 speed chains. Parts are available so a used one, or ask for a discount on the older version is possible, since it's slightly obsolete for modern bike shop use. This tool securely positions, and supports the chain, cross peens the pin to secure it, and this also marks the pin where you reconnected the chain so you won't use that link again for repair. I rotated the used chain to my XC bike and had some chain left over to practice on. It's actually quick and easy to use. If it's too expensive for you it may be almost as cheap to have a bike shop R&R your chain for you as buy the Connex links.

manoz85   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz85 » Nov 27 2019 11:26am

knutselmaaster wrote:
Nov 27 2019 1:46am
manoz85 wrote:
Nov 26 2019 9:00pm
So I sent the pic of broken torque sensor to ebird store and they asked for a pic of the motor on the bike in relation to the chainstays. I sent them the pic and they say the motor is too close to the frame and I should increase the gap by putting a washer on or bending the frame. Obviously I'm not going to bend the frame but where can I get a washer that increases the gap? just a couple of mm.
Your local bike shop will certainly have plenty.
They're called bracket spacers.
Thanks I found them online too, just need to be sure of measurements.



Removing the torque sensor from my current bike was extremely tough. Nearly tore apart my rubber mallet doing it. The sensor is in worse shape then my other one but the damaged bearing is stuck in the tube. How would I go about removing it?
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bdidier   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bdidier » Nov 28 2019 11:24am

Hi monoz85,

Use a Inner bearing puller to extract it

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3300538 ... 2e0e7k5Wre

manoz85   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz85 » Nov 28 2019 5:39pm

bdidier wrote:
Nov 28 2019 11:24am
Hi monoz85,

Use a Inner bearing puller to extract it

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3300538 ... 2e0e7k5Wre
thanks figures such a thing would exist lol. Any tips on future bearings not seizing up? copper grease good?

ImpulsePurchase   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ImpulsePurchase » Nov 29 2019 4:34am

Bearings are a maintenance part. You can open the dust shield, clean and pack with fresh grease.

Looks like its worth a spray of WD40 behind the dust shield every now and again to get rid of moisture.

manoz85   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz85 » Nov 29 2019 11:16am

Yeah I'm going to start doing that, what I meant was can I put grease between the outer of the bearing and inner of the motor casing?

minigranis   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by minigranis » Dec 04 2019 3:31pm

Hello all, first time poster.
I have been using my 36 volt TDZ2 for about 2 years now (use it mainly in winter here in Sweden).
When I put the battery back in the bike for the first ride this winter the display XH18 was dead.
The motor works but the XH18 is showing nothing, I have tried pulling and plugging in the XH18 again but to no avail, ordered a new XH18 - that one is "dead" as well. That tells med the problem is somewere else..

I have tried my goggle mojo but cant find any similar problems.
I guess next step is to measure the 6 pin cable for GND and V+
From: https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... C-to-TSDZ2

Code: Select all

6 pin controller (usually this is a TSDZ2 without throttle):
wire color	function	description
green	P+	battery voltage
black	GND	ground
white	Vin	ground when LCD disabled and P+ (battery voltage) when LCD is enabled
brown	UART TX motor controller	sends digital data to LCD
orange	UART RX motor controller	receives digital data to LCD
purple	brake	this signal is active low, meaning that when brakes are not active, this wire has 5V and with brakes active this wire has 0 volts.
Leave this wire unconnected if you will not be using brake sensors.
Is the XH18 powered with "all" the 36 volts from the battery ? I was kind of expecting to find some 5 volt+ pin as well..
Is it the green that should be "always on" ? The white seems to have some other funktion...

casainho   1.21 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Dec 04 2019 3:43pm

Mobile app for TSDZ2 with SW102 display

My wife is an Android developer professionally and would like to start a project for learning new mobile technologies - I suggested her to develop our app as OpenSource.

For start, we would like to research current state of art of this apps for ebikes. For instance, I think the most valuable feature may be the map navigation with on top layers the specific information of ebike like battery SOC, wheel speed, motor power, etc.

Can you guys help suggest other ebike apps to have as reference and features??

We plan to put all the notes and sources on a github repository, as OpenSource.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

knutselmaaster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Dec 04 2019 4:29pm

Check the Rayvolt EIVA app. It is quite nice and gives good ideas of possible features.

obcd   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by obcd » Dec 04 2019 5:23pm

The display gets the full battery voltage and generates it's own 5V or 3V3 internally.
When you turn it on, it passes that voltage to the motor controller.
So white isn't GND when the lcd is off. You just don't measure any voltage on it at that moment. it's at 0V
All voltages are measured in reference to GND. Measuring 0V doesn't mean it's GND
Voltage is always measured between 2 points of which one of them is most of the time GND
As your motor is working, that part of the display should be working.
So maybe it's just not receiving any data from the motor. You could disconnect brown and see if the behavour remains identical.
I have no idea what the original displays are doing when they don't receive anything from the motor. I assume some here should be able to answer that question.

minigranis   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by minigranis » Dec 05 2019 10:51am

obcd wrote:
Dec 04 2019 5:23pm
The display gets the full battery voltage and generates it's own 5V or 3V3 internally.
When you turn it on, it passes that voltage to the motor controller.
So white isn't GND when the lcd is off. You just don't measure any voltage on it at that moment. it's at 0V
All voltages are measured in reference to GND. Measuring 0V doesn't mean it's GND
Voltage is always measured between 2 points of which one of them is most of the time GND
As your motor is working, that part of the display should be working.
So maybe it's just not receiving any data from the motor. You could disconnect brown and see if the behavour remains identical.
I have no idea what the original displays are doing when they don't receive anything from the motor. I assume some here should be able to answer that question.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, I will make some measurements and see what I get.

hetm4n   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hetm4n » Dec 05 2019 3:45pm

casainho wrote:
Dec 04 2019 3:43pm
Mobile app for TSDZ2 with SW102 display

My wife is an Android developer professionally and would like to start a project for learning new mobile technologies - I suggested her to develop our app as OpenSource.

For start, we would like to research current state of art of this apps for ebikes. For instance, I think the most valuable feature may be the map navigation with on top layers the specific information of ebike like battery SOC, wheel speed, motor power, etc.

Can you guys help suggest other ebike apps to have as reference and features??

We plan to put all the notes and sources on a github repository, as OpenSource.
Track recording function with the ability to sync with endomondo, strava, ride with gps etc.


Today I came with a new SW102 display, I tried to connect it to a bafang bbs02 bicycle, It works, I tried to pair it with the phone via bluetooth. The phone sees it, but when pairing occurs, the display turns off. Is this a normal symptom? anyone did this before reprogramming it on Open firmware?

ImpulsePurchase   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ImpulsePurchase » Dec 06 2019 4:47am

casainho wrote:
Dec 04 2019 3:43pm
Mobile app for TSDZ2 with SW102 display

My wife is an Android developer professionally and would like to start a project for learning new mobile technologies - I suggested her to develop our app as OpenSource.

For start, we would like to research current state of art of this apps for ebikes. For instance, I think the most valuable feature may be the map navigation with on top layers the specific information of ebike like battery SOC, wheel speed, motor power, etc.

Can you guys help suggest other ebike apps to have as reference and features??

We plan to put all the notes and sources on a github repository, as OpenSource.
My only really reference point is the Garmin Edge software for the 705. I found that a map overlay was less useful than the turn by turn notifications that popped up to let you know when to turn as the gps wasn't detailed enough to let you know which track you were riding on where two trails ran along side each other but were seperated. Turn by turn telling you to take the left or right fork seemed to work better. I did less off road riding than road riding though so maybe I didn't see the best of it.

I did like the elevation graph showing you the elevation ahead and the simple box style display of speed/cadence etc.

For routing, I'd have a look at the cyclestreets.net API. It works well for mixed routing and is more cycle specific than the google version.

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Dec 06 2019 5:43am

Casainho.

Can I bring your attention to Blevo
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/blevo-for ... 1293644903
https://www.emtbforums.com/community/th ... hread.806/

which is exactly already doing what you are asking about. Its a very mature product and in some ways your wife would be just recreating the wheel.

Wouldn't it be far better for her to learn how to integrate the TSDZ2 via bluetooth to this App ?

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