New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Feb 11 2020 5:26pm

Gyuri89 wrote:
Feb 10 2020 11:13am
Hi,

Please help me to trouble shoot my problem.
Yesterday storm Ciara hit the UK and my bike too. :(
After a heavy rain I went home and everything was ok with the bike so far. I disconnected the battery and charged it. After having some rest I wanted to go out again and as I switched the power on with the on switch and all the digits came active on the display and it didn't change. Since then nothing is working and switching off is impossible with the KT-LCD3 switch. I can switch it off with the battery switch.
From memory that is what it does when it can't talk to the motor. I would look more closely at the 6 or 8 pin connector near the motor to see if there is any water in there. It is low down and not that well sealed. Try drying it out.

Gyuri89   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Gyuri89 » Feb 11 2020 6:47pm

There is no connector at all. I soldered the wires directly and sealed them properly. I've opened the seals up and it was bone dry. I couldn't find any water anywhere, not in the display nor switch nor controller. Maybe it is just a coincidence...??? :roll: I ordered a new KT-LCD3 also have a spare controller.
I just remembered when I switched it on before the breakdown I still had couple of seconds when the display seemed to be normal so I rolled a couple of meters and noticed there was no power and the speed meter was jumping crazy exactly the same symptoms when the magnet on the spoke slips off its position. Then I stopped to adjust the magnet and the whole system went down and I got the screen with all the digits on.

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Feb 11 2020 9:42pm

Gyuri89 wrote:
Feb 11 2020 6:47pm
There is no connector at all. I soldered the wires directly and sealed them properly. I've opened the seals up and it was bone dry. I couldn't find any water anywhere, not in the display nor switch nor controller. Maybe it is just a coincidence...??? :roll: I ordered a new KT-LCD3 also have a spare controller.
I just remembered when I switched it on before the breakdown I still had couple of seconds when the display seemed to be normal so I rolled a couple of meters and noticed there was no power and the speed meter was jumping crazy exactly the same symptoms when the magnet on the spoke slips off its position. Then I stopped to adjust the magnet and the whole system went down and I got the screen with all the digits on.
Does sound weird. The KT-LCD3 is reasonably well sealed, the controller in the motor seems pretty well potted. What about the speed sensor cable join having water in it? Maybe it thinks you are trying to program it :)

Have you tried flashing the controller and LT-LCD3 again? Check if you can read the program code out of both of them.

manoz   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz » Feb 11 2020 9:57pm

Gyuri89 wrote:
Feb 11 2020 6:47pm
There is no connector at all. I soldered the wires directly and sealed them properly. I've opened the seals up and it was bone dry. I couldn't find any water anywhere, not in the display nor switch nor controller. Maybe it is just a coincidence...??? :roll: I ordered a new KT-LCD3 also have a spare controller.
I just remembered when I switched it on before the breakdown I still had couple of seconds when the display seemed to be normal so I rolled a couple of meters and noticed there was no power and the speed meter was jumping crazy exactly the same symptoms when the magnet on the spoke slips off its position. Then I stopped to adjust the magnet and the whole system went down and I got the screen with all the digits on.
Storm Ciara destroyed my controller [curses]

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Feb 12 2020 9:06am

On the 3 motors I have sitting here, its water damage that has been the failure on all 3. Odd failures though as all 3 are from different overall problems, but has ended up with the controller damaged. Its odd as the only way in for the water is through the silicon where the leads go through or the seal around the main crank ( plastic cover ) which then gets into the main motor and controller compartment via the torque sensor wire cutout ( unfortunately you cannot silicon it in as it has to allow the springs on the torque sensor to work properly ).

In the last motor I installed ( still running fine ) I packed entirely the void behind the cable entry point, behind the plastic cover with waterproof thick grease to stop water being forced up against silicon of the cables, as I suspect its here its getting in. I'm not sure how to beef up the seal around the crank other than making an additional seal on the outside of the case which many engines in adverse conditions do have this outer steel cover as close as the crank as possible and then an inner seal dealing with just water.

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Feb 12 2020 9:08am

Forgot to mention also to fill the connectors with silicon grease or contact grease, sadly once a connector fails it seems you can't get it back working.

michih.   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by michih. » Feb 12 2020 11:41am

skestans wrote:
Feb 11 2020 3:45pm
beardydave wrote:
Feb 11 2020 12:02pm
Image
skestans wrote:
Feb 06 2020 10:54am
beardydave wrote:
Feb 06 2020 8:21am
Can you show on a picture which part you’re upgrading? I have difficulty visualizing it.
This bit, borrowed someone else's image
I'm probably being really thick at this point, but... That's the shaft the cranks are attached to?
Yes, it breaks when standing on the cradle or when going downhill it becomes dangerous!!

Mfg Michael

ancan   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ancan » Feb 12 2020 12:01pm

I've got a problem with flickering headlight that is connected to the TSDZ2's light connectors. It's OK from start but when voltage drops under 50V the light gets more and more unstable. I assume this is due to crappy voltage regulator on the 6V output. Unfortunately when it gets really bad my lamp keeps turning off as well, which is rather annoying.

Anyone have any ideas on a workaround for this. Put a capacitor on the 6V output? What size of cap? Is there room to put it in the motor?

Gyuri89   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Gyuri89 » Feb 12 2020 8:44pm

mctubster wrote:
Feb 11 2020 9:42pm
Gyuri89 wrote:
Feb 11 2020 6:47pm
There is no connector at all. I soldered the wires directly and sealed them properly. I've opened the seals up and it was bone dry. I couldn't find any water anywhere, not in the display nor switch nor controller. Maybe it is just a coincidence...??? :roll: I ordered a new KT-LCD3 also have a spare controller.
I just remembered when I switched it on before the breakdown I still had couple of seconds when the display seemed to be normal so I rolled a couple of meters and noticed there was no power and the speed meter was jumping crazy exactly the same symptoms when the magnet on the spoke slips off its position. Then I stopped to adjust the magnet and the whole system went down and I got the screen with all the digits on.
Does sound weird. The KT-LCD3 is reasonably well sealed, the controller in the motor seems pretty well potted. What about the speed sensor cable join having water in it? Maybe it thinks you are trying to program it :)

Have you tried flashing the controller and LT-LCD3 again? Check if you can read the program code out of both of them.
Well, maybe the speed sensor cable did something unexpected to the controller as I saw the speed was fluctuating on the display I moved the magnet and the cable as well. I didn't recon the cable could go wrong as it looks pretty industrialised, like no way to destroy it. That is also a good idea to try to read the code out of them and/or reflash them. I'll do that in the morning.

manoz   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz » Feb 12 2020 9:04pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Feb 12 2020 9:06am
On the 3 motors I have sitting here, its water damage that has been the failure on all 3. Odd failures though as all 3 are from different overall problems, but has ended up with the controller damaged. Its odd as the only way in for the water is through the silicon where the leads go through or the seal around the main crank ( plastic cover ) which then gets into the main motor and controller compartment via the torque sensor wire cutout ( unfortunately you cannot silicon it in as it has to allow the springs on the torque sensor to work properly ).

In the last motor I installed ( still running fine ) I packed entirely the void behind the cable entry point, behind the plastic cover with waterproof thick grease to stop water being forced up against silicon of the cables, as I suspect its here its getting in. I'm not sure how to beef up the seal around the crank other than making an additional seal on the outside of the case which many engines in adverse conditions do have this outer steel cover as close as the crank as possible and then an inner seal dealing with just water.
I've put electrical tape all around the cover over the cables and then where the cables come out I've packed it with silicon. So fingers crossed. When I clean my bike I take the motor out. Maybe I should put silicon up against the crank seal too? Another thing I am considering is making a mudflap out of old inner tube and hanging it off my front fender?

canbb   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by canbb » Feb 13 2020 9:40am

michih. wrote:
Feb 12 2020 11:41am
skestans wrote:
Feb 11 2020 3:45pm
beardydave wrote:
Feb 11 2020 12:02pm
Image
skestans wrote:
Feb 06 2020 10:54am


Can you show on a picture which part you’re upgrading? I have difficulty visualizing it.
This bit, borrowed someone else's image
I'm probably being really thick at this point, but... That's the shaft the cranks are attached to?
Yes, it breaks when standing on the cradle or when going downhill it becomes dangerous!!

Mfg Michael
Ever think about changing the style of crank connection?

skestans   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by skestans » Feb 13 2020 11:34am

michih. wrote:
Feb 12 2020 11:41am
skestans wrote:
Feb 11 2020 3:45pm
beardydave wrote:
Feb 11 2020 12:02pm
Image
skestans wrote:
Feb 06 2020 10:54am


Can you show on a picture which part you’re upgrading? I have difficulty visualizing it.
This bit, borrowed someone else's image
I'm probably being really thick at this point, but... That's the shaft the cranks are attached to?
Yes, it breaks when standing on the cradle or when going downhill it becomes dangerous!!

Mfg Michael
Yeah that sounds bad... Would be interested in an upgrade as well then, what would the cost be like?

manoz   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz » Feb 13 2020 12:14pm

I'm trying to remove the torque sensor from another motor but it doesn't seem to be coming out. I'm sure it was easy last time. I've taken the big gear off the drive side after removing the circlips and then tapped the axle out of the non-drive side with the bearing and oil seal attached. I used a reversed spare axle and locked them into the teeth of the torque sensor and hammered from the non drive side but the torque sensor seems to be stuck fast? Anyone got any tips? I'm sure it should just tap out?

famichiki   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Feb 13 2020 3:54pm

Has anyone here attached a temperature sensor using JB Weld? Did you simply glue the surfaces using that, or encase the whole sensor in it? Or for anyone else, have you found an adhesive that doesn't involve encasing the entire sensor?

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Feb 13 2020 4:36pm

famichiki wrote:
Feb 13 2020 3:54pm
Has anyone here attached a temperature sensor using JB Weld? Did you simply glue the surfaces using that, or encase the whole sensor in it? Or for anyone else, have you found an adhesive that doesn't involve encasing the entire sensor?
Last time I used a plastic zip tie, like others shared before. I still use the heat transfer adhesive to connect the sensor to the motor surface and then input the zip tie around the motor that also keep the sensor in place. I need to put this information in the wiki.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

famichiki   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Feb 13 2020 4:52pm

casainho wrote:
Feb 13 2020 4:36pm
Last time I used a plastic zip tie, like others shared before. I still use the heat transfer adhesive to connect the sensor to the motor surface and then input the zip tie around the motor that also keep the sensor in place. I need to put this information in the wiki.
Thanks for the idea, I'd be interested to see a photo of that. I just found a post by Doohickey saying they used zip ties but unfortunately no photos. I also see that 3M makes a thermal double-sided tape which sounds good.

3wheels   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by 3wheels » Feb 13 2020 6:22pm

Retrorockit wrote:
Dec 21 2019 1:01am
3wheels wrote:
Dec 19 2019 7:43pm
I have just joined the forum and I am hoping someone can help me with a technical question regarding the TSDS2 mid drive unit.

I ordered 3 units from China a while ago and have only just installed the second one now. All three were to be installed in "standard" bikes, all with 7 hub-gears and internal rear brake by Shimano.

The first installation went well and the rear brake works as it should with back-peddling, but with the last two units, the crank is freewheeling making the drive sprocket stationary and therefore I can not engage the brake.

Are there different models to suit de-railer gear systems? I presume that is what I have ended up with?

Does anyone have a quick fix for this problem?
There are 2 types of Shimano IGH internal rear brakes. The roller brake which is cable operated, and the cruiser type coaster brake which is back pedal operated. The coaster brakes TSDZ2 has a solid pedal shaft with no clutch to allow this. The other IGH brake types are the disc brake, and no brake (rim brake) type which is the roller type with a cover in place of the brake and can fit narrower frames due to that. I think installing the correct shaft will fix it. But newer TSDZ2 may have a narrower shaft with 1 bearing and a seal instead of 2 bearings and a seal on the rh drive side. The PAS torque sensor is attached to that shaft so be sure you know how to deal with that before taking it apart. I haven't opened mine up yet so look around in the forum.
Thanks for the information.
The brakes are the coaster type. I would have thought that the "sprag clutch" was replaced with a solid fixed unit, as the gear and the main crankshaft is surely a standard replacement part? Do you know of any sources for supply of these parts?

feyris   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by feyris » Feb 14 2020 10:15am

ancan wrote:
Feb 12 2020 12:01pm
I've got a problem with flickering headlight that is connected to the TSDZ2's light connectors. It's OK from start but when voltage drops under 50V the light gets more and more unstable. I assume this is due to crappy voltage regulator on the 6V output. Unfortunately when it gets really bad my lamp keeps turning off as well, which is rather annoying.

Anyone have any ideas on a workaround for this. Put a capacitor on the 6V output? What size of cap? Is there room to put it in the motor?

I also had this issue
After 20mn of ride, the light power off for few seconds, then power on again...
It looks like the 6v regulator is heating too mutch?
My light is 6V 0.5 A
I ordered a 60v to 6v transformer and a SSR to switch it.

andrea_104kg   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by andrea_104kg » Feb 14 2020 6:11pm

feyris wrote:
Feb 14 2020 10:15am
ancan wrote:
Feb 12 2020 12:01pm
I've got a problem with flickering headlight that is connected to the TSDZ2's light connectors. It's OK from start but when voltage drops under 50V the light gets more and more unstable. I assume this is due to crappy voltage regulator on the 6V output. Unfortunately when it gets really bad my lamp keeps turning off as well, which is rather annoying.

Anyone have any ideas on a workaround for this. Put a capacitor on the 6V output? What size of cap? Is there room to put it in the motor?

I also had this issue
After 20mn of ride, the light power off for few seconds, then power on again...
It looks like the 6v regulator is heating too mutch?
My light is 6V 0.5 A
I ordered a 60v to 6v transformer and a SSR to switch it.
this may be usefull?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3303642 ... 4c4dzz7JPC

manoz   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz » Feb 14 2020 10:22pm

Does anyone know if the factory applies grease or anti-seize to the torque sensor? Figured mine is seized so probably would have to take it to an auto shop and use their bearing press to get it out. Will greasing the part help it from seizing in the future?

tannertasman   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by tannertasman » Feb 16 2020 3:51am

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can help me with some issues I've been having with my tsdz2 build.
I bought the 750w 48v motor, planning to get a 48v battery in NZ. This proved impossible for me so I had to settle for a 36v battery. I flashed the 36v files from the eco-bike tutorial which was easy enough. Only problem is I'm not getting assist at any level. All the VLCD5 settings seem fine. I posted on Reddit and was directed to Stancecoke's VLCD5 repo. Went through all of that, but I'm still not getting assist at any level. Thanks for your time helping me, in advance.

dameri   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Feb 16 2020 5:00am

tannertasman wrote:
Feb 16 2020 3:51am
Hi,

I'm hoping someone can help me with some issues I've been having with my tsdz2 build.
I bought the 750w 48v motor, planning to get a 48v battery in NZ. This proved impossible for me so I had to settle for a 36v battery. I flashed the 36v files from the eco-bike tutorial which was easy enough. Only problem is I'm not getting assist at any level. All the VLCD5 settings seem fine. I posted on Reddit and was directed to Stancecoke's VLCD5 repo. Went through all of that, but I'm still not getting assist at any level. Thanks for your time helping me, in advance.
I think Your question would be better placed here: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=98281
There is talking about VLCD5, VLCD6 and xh18 displays.

knutselmaaster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Feb 16 2020 7:27am

tannertasman wrote:
Feb 16 2020 3:51am
Hi,

I'm hoping someone can help me with some issues I've been having with my tsdz2 build.
I bought the 750w 48v motor, planning to get a 48v battery in NZ. This proved impossible for me so I had to settle for a 36v battery. I flashed the 36v files from the eco-bike tutorial which was easy enough. Only problem is I'm not getting assist at any level. All the VLCD5 settings seem fine. I posted on Reddit and was directed to Stancecoke's VLCD5 repo. Went through all of that, but I'm still not getting assist at any level. Thanks for your time helping me, in advance.
Does the torque sensor value change when you press the pedal?

Nfer   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Nfer » Feb 16 2020 8:47pm

tannertasman wrote:
Feb 16 2020 3:51am
Hi,

I'm hoping someone can help me with some issues I've been having with my tsdz2 build.
I bought the 750w 48v motor, planning to get a 48v battery in NZ. This proved impossible for me so I had to settle for a 36v battery. I flashed the 36v files from the eco-bike tutorial which was easy enough. Only problem is I'm not getting assist at any level. All the VLCD5 settings seem fine. I posted on Reddit and was directed to Stancecoke's VLCD5 repo. Went through all of that, but I'm still not getting assist at any level. Thanks for your time helping me, in advance.
Is the speed sensor installed correctly?

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Feb 16 2020 9:53pm

tannertasman wrote:
Feb 16 2020 3:51am
Hi,

I'm hoping someone can help me with some issues I've been having with my tsdz2 build.
I bought the 750w 48v motor, planning to get a 48v battery in NZ. This proved impossible for me so I had to settle for a 36v battery. I flashed the 36v files from the eco-bike tutorial which was easy enough. Only problem is I'm not getting assist at any level. All the VLCD5 settings seem fine. I posted on Reddit and was directed to Stancecoke's VLCD5 repo. Went through all of that, but I'm still not getting assist at any level. Thanks for your time helping me, in advance.
I would test in walk mode, and see if it activates... That way you can determine if it is a voltage issue or not. You definitely flashed both program and data memory, and the option byte tab has not been cleared accidentally?

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