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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 18 2020 1:19pm
by knutselmaaster
hefest wrote:
Mar 18 2020 12:35pm
One of the wires coming from controller to the display has original battery voltage, in my case 48v. I've got dc-dc step down voltage converter with usb that I'm planning on wiring to that wire to be able to charge various things while on the move, such as phone.

Any ideas what kind of current this wire can handle?
I'd say less than 500mA, these wires are extremely thin.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 18 2020 2:09pm
by Hasse67
It's a mountain bike and I'm lightweight, about cadence at highest gear I don't know,
Is it so, that the motor stops providing power at a certain cadence?

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 18 2020 5:17pm
by ilu
Hasse67 wrote:
Mar 18 2020 2:09pm
It's a mountain bike and I'm lightweight, about cadence at highest gear I don't know,
Is it so, that the motor stops providing power at a certain cadence?
Yes, the maximum cadence with motor assistance is currently 90 rpm, when you're using 48v motor with 48v battery. In-depth information can be found here

To get higher cadence limit you could use 36v motor with 48v battery (the bare motor you can find for 80+ euros).

Naturally the chainring/cog tooth ratio also plays a major part in top speed, especially when motor assistance stops at higher cadence. In mtbs this is usually quite low, as chainrings are typically quite small to get lower ratios with lower gears. With my hardtail mtb I'm using 38t chainring with 10-42 cassette, but it's a compromise as the lowest gears are slightly too "big" for steep ascents in rough terrain.
On flat streets I can reach ~40 km/h, although I'm also using 36v motor with 36v battery and "experimental high cadence mode" found in the open source firmware. If you're mostly riding on streets you can try using bigger chainring, if you want an allaround bike then check if it's possible to fit also a wider range cassette ie. 11-46t or even 11-50t.

Edit: here I'm quite fixated on 1x chainring system, as I feel that front derailleur makes things too crowded at BB and handlebar, but naturally even with 2 chainrings you can easily get greatly wider range.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 18 2020 5:22pm
by knutselmaaster
Hasse67 wrote:
Mar 18 2020 2:09pm
It's a mountain bike and I'm lightweight, about cadence at highest gear I don't know,
Is it so, that the motor stops providing power at a certain cadence?
On 26" wheels, with default 42 front and 11 rear it should do about 40km/h but you need to add some good old muscle power to reach it.

Re: New

Posted: Mar 19 2020 2:54am
by ancan
skestans wrote:
Mar 13 2020 3:30pm
bergerandfries wrote:
I am running stock 52v firmware on the motor and euronau firmware on the 850c, and it also does the same. I usually turn off things by flipping off the switch on my battery, but I will start using the actual power off button on the 850c first and see if that resolves the issue
I always switch off with the display button first (this also ensures the odometer is saved if I’m not mistaken) and then switch the battery off if not at home. The clock still shows the wrong time more often than not.
My clock is also completely off every morning, and I turn off using the power button.

Re: New

Posted: Mar 19 2020 2:57am
by casainho
ancan wrote:
Mar 19 2020 2:54am
My clock is also completely off every morning, and I turn off using the power button.
So, fails less than 24h? Does it fails like after 1 or 2h? - please test and report.

Re: New

Posted: Mar 19 2020 3:12am
by ancan
casainho wrote:
Mar 19 2020 2:57am
ancan wrote:
Mar 19 2020 2:54am
My clock is also completely off every morning, and I turn off using the power button.
So, fails less than 24h? Does it fails like after 1 or 2h? - please test and report.
Will do.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 19 2020 3:15am
by ancan
I'm a bit disappointed with the power output consistency since I upgraded from the KT-LCD3 to the 850C, and the later firmwares, and wonder what your experience is.

With the older stuff I felt there was a pretty consistent power output as the battery discharged, and I could keep the same assist level all the way. Now with the 850C and as of now 0.6.5 firmware, the motor gets weaker and weaker the more the voltage drops. On the start of the ride with ~52V i zip way on assist level 1, but at 46V it kind of feels sluggish even on higher assist levels.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 19 2020 4:54am
by skestans
Hasse67 wrote:
Mar 18 2020 10:34am
Hey all,
I'm new here and just a few days ago installed a tsdz2 750w and a 48v battery.
It works pretty well, but in terms of speed I'm a little disappointed, with speed limit setting 25 kph OFF, I reach 30-33 kph on flat ground, I thought top speed would be higher.
Is this all right, Is 30-33 kph as expected?
I think it's very variable. I have 42mm wide tires (hybrid/road, not knobby) and when I set motor assist to 50 km/h, I was able to hit 45-50 km/h on a long enough flat stretch of road (without any wind.) Total bike + rider weight is around 105 kg.

My cruise speeds were 35-40 km/h but I found this too fast to be safe (drivers don't expect a bicycle to be going that fast, and you have less time to react) so I put it back to cut assist off at 25 km/h and now cruise at 25-30.

Re: New

Posted: Mar 19 2020 4:58am
by skestans
casainho wrote:
Mar 19 2020 2:57am
ancan wrote:
Mar 19 2020 2:54am
My clock is also completely off every morning, and I turn off using the power button.
So, fails less than 24h? Does it fails like after 1 or 2h? - please test and report.
I'll be conducting tests as well over the next couple of weeks.

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 19 2020 8:14am
by AZUR
Hi all,

A well-written test of TSDZ2:

https://www.electricbike.com/tsdz2-750w ... ur1ZqnrTuw

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 19 2020 10:24am
by Cristian
I searched around, but i can't find much about play in the axle. It started today, it's about 1-2mm of play. What is the cause? What do i have to replace?

What motor temps are safe?

Posted: Mar 19 2020 10:35am
by Brlowe
I just finished the install of my TSDZ2 on my Ice Trike. I still need to configure it a little but all of it is now working.
I have the temp sensor installed and working but I have no idea what I should watch for as an upper temp limit.
What is the max temp I should watch for and be safe?

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 19 2020 10:47am
by john61ct
15A should be a hard limit, per spinningmagnets article above, 18A risks melting stuff

> 140F (60C) is near ideal when under load. Getting close to 200F (93C) means that you may have de-magnetized the permanent magnets, or caused some other damage.

what's that sound?

Posted: Mar 19 2020 10:50am
by izeman
Had my maiden voyage today, first time riding more than a few meters in the driveway. All went fine, but after around 20min a strange sound started inside the motor. The sound is NOT there when you pedal, so it's not something from the drivetrain, but clearly inside the motor.

Please see this video, which is just for demonstration, so no nice intro, no video effects, no editing, just pure strange sound while riding, and a wobbly picture. 8)


Re: what's that sound?

Posted: Mar 19 2020 10:57am
by casainho
izeman wrote:
Mar 19 2020 10:50am
Had my maiden voyage today, first time riding more than a few meters in the driveway. All went fine, but after around 20min a strange sound started inside the motor.
I am almost sure it is the blue gear and that probably was your fault because you may not have the brake sensors installed or something blocked like jammed chain.

Re: what's that sound?

Posted: Mar 19 2020 11:06am
by devboy-greg
izeman wrote:
Mar 19 2020 10:50am
Had my maiden voyage today, first time riding more than a few meters in the driveway. All went fine, but after around 20min a strange sound started inside the motor.
When I had a similar sound it was grit in the teeth of the main drive cog (the one with the sprag clutch bearing in it).
To check, remove the chainring and then the main drive cover (very easy) and see if you can see anything, it might be quite difficult to see foreign matter though as it should be covered in grease, turning the cranks by hand enabled me to hear at which point the sound occurred so I could clean the teeth of the big drive gear at that point.

Hope it is something as simple as this.

Re: what's that sound?

Posted: Mar 19 2020 11:20am
by izeman
casainho wrote:
Mar 19 2020 10:57am
izeman wrote:
Mar 19 2020 10:50am
Had my maiden voyage today, first time riding more than a few meters in the driveway. All went fine, but after around 20min a strange sound started inside the motor.
I am almost sure it is the blue gear and that probably was your fault because you may not have the brake sensors installed or something blocked like jammed chain.
How do you know it's my fault? And NO. I got brake sensors, and no jammed chain at all. All running fine.

Re: what's that sound?

Posted: Mar 19 2020 11:23am
by izeman
devboy-greg wrote:
Mar 19 2020 11:06am
izeman wrote:
Mar 19 2020 10:50am
Had my maiden voyage today, first time riding more than a few meters in the driveway. All went fine, but after around 20min a strange sound started inside the motor.
When I had a similar sound it was grit in the teeth of the main drive cog (the one with the sprag clutch bearing in it).
To check, remove the chainring and then the main drive cover (very easy) and see if you can see anything, it might be quite difficult to see foreign matter though as it should be covered in grease, turning the cranks by hand enabled me to hear at which point the sound occurred so I could clean the teeth of the big drive gear at that point.

Hope it is something as simple as this.
Thanks. I will need to take it apart. Strange that this happened so quickly. In my opinion there must have been something bad from the beginning. If it was grit, shouldn't the sound be there from the beginning?
I hope it's not the main clutch/sprawl assembly. I'll check tomorrow and we'll see.

Re: what's that sound?

Posted: Mar 19 2020 11:27am
by casainho
izeman wrote:
Mar 19 2020 11:20am
How do you know it's my fault? And NO. I got brake sensors, and no jammed chain at all. All running fine.
Well, if is the blue gear damage teeth, then probably you did / happened something wrong with the mechanical part of your bicycle. Check the wiki FAQ.

I am being damaging the blue gear while doing development and I know that noise... Still can be something else.

Re: what's that sound?

Posted: Mar 19 2020 11:39am
by izeman
casainho wrote:
Mar 19 2020 11:27am
izeman wrote:
Mar 19 2020 11:20am
How do you know it's my fault? And NO. I got brake sensors, and no jammed chain at all. All running fine.
Well, if is the blue gear damage teeth, then probably you did / happened something wrong with the mechanical part of your bicycle. Check the wiki FAQ.
Even if it's the blue gear, and i don't doubt it. You react like you SOLD the device and I asked for warranty. If something fails within the first minutes of use (NOT abuse) you normally would think it most probably came dead on arrival. If I now install my spare gear and the same thing happens a few minutes later, what's then? ....

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Posted: Mar 19 2020 12:01pm
by john61ct
Stripping the gear would require abuse by definition.

What's the max phase amps used?

Unless they had a bad batch of Delrin or something.

Re: New

Posted: Mar 19 2020 12:51pm
by izeman
john61ct wrote:
Mar 19 2020 12:01pm
Stripping the gear would require abuse by definition.
What's the max phase amps used?
Unless they had a bad batch of Delrin or something.
It's set to 16A battery @14s. Brake sensor & temp sensor installed, and never got over 80, but problem began at 50C already, so it shouldn't be a heat issue.
The whole assembly is quite strange. The big sprocket has some play, and the axle can be wiggled around as well. That's not looking of for me... I tried to make a video, but it's really hard to see on video.
Have to do some work still, but tomorrow I can open the motor and have a look inside.

Re: what's that sound?

Posted: Mar 19 2020 1:50pm
by casainho
izeman wrote:
Mar 19 2020 11:39am
casainho wrote:
Mar 19 2020 11:27am
izeman wrote:
Mar 19 2020 11:20am
How do you know it's my fault? And NO. I got brake sensors, and no jammed chain at all. All running fine.
Well, if is the blue gear damage teeth, then probably you did / happened something wrong with the mechanical part of your bicycle. Check the wiki FAQ.
Even if it's the blue gear, and i don't doubt it. You react like you SOLD the device and I asked for warranty. If something fails within the first minutes of use (NOT abuse) you normally would think it most probably came dead on arrival. If I now install my spare gear and the same thing happens a few minutes later, what's then? ....
Well, the same happened to me when I bought my very first TSDZ2, after 20kms the blue gear did fail and because I did not installed the brake sensors and I did brake a few times with motor at max power. Now I know It was my fault. I assumed you did the same. That is why on the wiki is recommended to install the brake sensors.

Also, you are using the OpenSource firmware so there should be no warranty anymore.

Also, are you sure the 14 Amps second increase ramp is a safe value? Did you tested it for how long?

Re: what's that sound?

Posted: Mar 19 2020 1:57pm
by izeman
casainho wrote:
Mar 19 2020 1:50pm
Also, you are using the OpenSource firmware so there should be no warranty anymore.
Also, are you sure the 14 Amps second increase ramp is a safe value? Did you tested it for how long?
I wouldn't have expected and warranty at all. Sending the motor to some other country, and waiting several weeks to month to MAYBE receive it back as repaired? No. I know the risk buying in China and do the repair myself. No problem.
What do you mean by "14A second increase ramp"? I was not aware that I changed anything from default but voltage, wheel size and such.
Btw: I remember reading about chain ring and axle wobble issues. Did someone else have this problem, and a solution for it? I can't imagine that an unstable axle can work for long.