New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
john61ct   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3637
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by john61ct » Mar 19 2020 3:06pm

Consider replacing the plastic with the brass gear, apparently not too noisy.

And personally, I'd stick to a 13A ceiling, even 12A better.

Or go to BBS02 (better than BBSHD?)

User avatar
izeman   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5048
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

Re: New

Post by izeman » Mar 19 2020 3:19pm

john61ct wrote:
Mar 19 2020 3:06pm
Consider replacing the plastic with the brass gear, apparently not too noisy.
And personally, I'd stick to a 13A ceiling, even 12A better.
Or go to BBS02 (better than BBSHD?)
I don't mind replacing the blue gear. There needs to be a "weakest link" that's easy replaceable. I just wouldn't have expected this to happen within 10km.
Where do you set that ceiling? I will change it if it's advised.
Bafang is no option. I know it and installed several times, but this time I wanted to build a pedelec with a torque sensor and not a moped.

AZUR   100 W

100 W
Posts: 116
Joined: Apr 05 2018 6:52am

Re: what's that sound?

Post by AZUR » Mar 19 2020 3:24pm

casainho wrote:
Mar 19 2020 1:50pm
izeman wrote:
Mar 19 2020 11:39am
casainho wrote:
Mar 19 2020 11:27am
izeman wrote:
Mar 19 2020 11:20am
How do you know it's my fault? And NO. I got brake sensors, and no jammed chain at all. All running fine.
Well, if is the blue gear damage teeth, then probably you did / happened something wrong with the mechanical part of your bicycle. Check the wiki FAQ.
Even if it's the blue gear, and i don't doubt it. You react like you SOLD the device and I asked for warranty. If something fails within the first minutes of use (NOT abuse) you normally would think it most probably came dead on arrival. If I now install my spare gear and the same thing happens a few minutes later, what's then? ....
Well, the same happened to me when I bought my very first TSDZ2, after 20kms the blue gear did fail and because I did not installed the brake sensors and I did brake a few times with motor at max power. Now I know It was my fault. I assumed you did the same. That is why on the wiki is recommended to install the brake sensors.

Also, you are using the OpenSource firmware so there should be no warranty anymore.

Also, are you sure the 14 Amps second increase ramp is a safe value? Did you tested it for how long?
Casainho, Do you have brake sensors instaled?

john61ct   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3637
Joined: Dec 18 2018 2:06pm

Re: New

Post by john61ct » Mar 19 2020 3:45pm

izeman wrote:I just wouldn't have expected this to happen within 10km.
Heavy load big hill could be the first 10m, not a "fast wearing" issue but "pushing 'til it snaps"

> I don't mind replacing the blue gear. There needs to be a "weakest link" that's easy replaceable.

Like Rohloff's shear pins, wonder if that could be user-added somewhere?

Then going brass might let you get more oomph if needed in brief spurts

> Where do you set that ceiling?

Casainho's FOSS firmware or add a CAv3 for limit throttling.

Note torque (amps) separate from any overtemp limiting.



casainho   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4094
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: what's that sound?

Post by casainho » Mar 19 2020 8:42pm

AZUR wrote:
Mar 19 2020 3:24pm
Casainho, Do you have brake sensors instaled?
Yes, I do have now. My very first time, I didn't and the blue gear wore just after 20 kms, after I did a few brakes with motor at max power settings of original firmware.

The blue gear did damage to me only on that situation and after some times when my chain blocked or recently with to much battery current like 25 amps.
Last edited by casainho on Mar 20 2020 4:05am, edited 1 time in total.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Brlowe   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 35
Joined: Nov 15 2019 10:16am

V0.6.8 firmware issues

Post by Brlowe » Mar 19 2020 11:49pm

Hello all,
I finally got my TSDZ2 installed and love it. I have the latest v0.6.8 and v0.55.0 installed and I have a couple issues.
First I have the motor surge while coming out of the settings menu.
Second I have twice had it where I turn the system on and after it is fully on I put my feet on the petals and start to petal and the motor surges the the whole system shuts off. I can repeat this continually. To fix it I have to go back into the settings menu select something then exit and restart it. I do not change anything just have to go into the menu.

Last is a question, after going into the settings menu do you always have to come out and restart the system?
Also after a 10 mile ride at power setting 7 the motor temp got up to 140. Is this normal?

Thank you

casainho   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4094
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: V0.6.8 firmware issues

Post by casainho » Mar 20 2020 4:02am

Brlowe wrote:
Mar 19 2020 11:49pm
Hello all,
I finally got my TSDZ2 installed and love it. I have the latest v0.6.8 and v0.55.0 installed and I have a couple issues.
First I have the motor surge while coming out of the settings menu.
Second I have twice had it where I turn the system on and after it is fully on I put my feet on the petals and start to petal and the motor surges the the whole system shuts off.
I have a version that improves a lot that issue, I will try to make it better and I hope to release a version today.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

casainho   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4094
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 20 2020 4:04am

Finally I had time to install 860C display on my bicycle. Sure it has a better aspect than 850C and buttons are really robust. But it is even bigger than 850C...

Image
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Atrihalov   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 19
Joined: Nov 14 2017 1:30am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Atrihalov » Mar 20 2020 6:26am

Tomorrow I will get a torque sensor, I want to figure out why it stopped working. The principle is clear, one fixed coil goes to the controller, the other is fixed to the shaft in series with the strain gauge, when the pedals rotate, the pressure is applied to the strain gauge and, accordingly, the strain gauge changes resistance and since it changes the EMF in the circuit with the coil at the output of the fixed coil, this way the controller calculates the level help. So the malfunction may be either damage to the coils or strain gauge.

User avatar
stancecoke   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1167
Joined: Aug 02 2017 2:56pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by stancecoke » Mar 20 2020 7:06am

Atrihalov wrote:
Mar 20 2020 6:26am
the strain gauge changes resistance
There is no strain gauge in the sensor, the deflection is detected by a hall sensor.
Image

regards
stancecoke

User avatar
izeman   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5048
Joined: Jun 21 2011 8:25am
Location: Vienna, Austria
Contact:

Re: what's that sound?

Post by izeman » Mar 20 2020 10:17am

casainho wrote:
Mar 19 2020 8:42pm
AZUR wrote:
Mar 19 2020 3:24pm
Casainho, Do you have brake sensors instaled?
Yes, I do have now. My very first time, I didn't and the blue gear wore just after 20 kms, after I did a few brakes with motor at max power settings of original firmware.

The blue gear did damage to me only on that situation and after some times when my chain blocked or recently with to much battery current like 25 amps.
Wanted to replace the blue gear, as everyone said it will be damaged. Took the motor apart, this is was the blue gear looks like (and YES, the backside looks the same). Tell me which one is the new one, and which is the old. 8)
Everything in the motor looks fine. All gears look intact, bearings are ok - Chinese style, and I can't find any obvious problem.
As I mentioned: When I pedal there is no noise, so it clearly comes from the motor. And it's not a really complicated setup. Motor, 2 gears, another two gears, and that's it.
Any ideas?

IMG_3378.JPG
IMG_3378.JPG (147.31 KiB) Viewed 558 times
IMG_3379.JPG
IMG_3379.JPG (113.46 KiB) Viewed 558 times

casainho   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4094
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: what's that sound?

Post by casainho » Mar 20 2020 10:22am

izeman wrote:
Mar 20 2020 10:17am
Everything in the motor looks fine. All gears look intact, bearings are ok - Chinese style, and I can't find any obvious problem.
As I mentioned: When I pedal there is no noise, so it clearly comes from the motor. And it's not a really complicated setup. Motor, 2 gears, another two gears, and that's it.
Did you read the wiki FAQ?? I bet the issue is the clutch slipping on the gear... and if so, it was not your fault as I said on first time. Let's discuss after you confirm the issue.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Brlowe   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 35
Joined: Nov 15 2019 10:16am

Re: V0.6.8 firmware issues

Post by Brlowe » Mar 20 2020 10:44am

casainho wrote:
Mar 20 2020 4:02am
Brlowe wrote:
Mar 19 2020 11:49pm
Hello all,
I finally got my TSDZ2 installed and love it. I have the latest v0.6.8 and v0.55.0 installed and I have a couple issues.
First I have the motor surge while coming out of the settings menu.
Second I have twice had it where I turn the system on and after it is fully on I put my feet on the petals and start to petal and the motor surges the the whole system shuts off.
I have a version that improves a lot that issue, I will try to make it better and I hope to release a version today.
Thank you for all the hard work you do for us.

Cristian   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 21
Joined: Nov 06 2018 6:31am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Cristian » Mar 20 2020 11:38am

Cristian wrote:
Mar 19 2020 10:24am
I searched around, but i can't find much about play in the axle. It started today, it's about 1-2mm of play. What is the cause? What do i have to replace?
Does anyone know what is causing play in the axle?

casainho   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4094
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 20 2020 11:59am

Cristian wrote:
Mar 20 2020 11:38am
Cristian wrote:
Mar 19 2020 10:24am
I searched around, but i can't find much about play in the axle. It started today, it's about 1-2mm of play. What is the cause? What do i have to replace?
Does anyone know what is causing play in the axle?
The play on the axle, search on Google, YouTube about the axle assembly, bearings, etc. PSWPOWER seels a product related to axle...
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

Atrihalov   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 19
Joined: Nov 14 2017 1:30am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Atrihalov » Mar 20 2020 1:18pm

There is no strain gauge in the sensor, the deflection is detected by a hall sensor.
Thanks. The error came out. :)

knutselmaaster   100 W

100 W
Posts: 294
Joined: Apr 05 2014 6:50am
Location: near Paris, France

Re: what's that sound?

Post by knutselmaaster » Mar 20 2020 1:34pm

izeman wrote:
Mar 20 2020 10:17am
casainho wrote:
Mar 19 2020 8:42pm
AZUR wrote:
Mar 19 2020 3:24pm
Casainho, Do you have brake sensors instaled?
Yes, I do have now. My very first time, I didn't and the blue gear wore just after 20 kms, after I did a few brakes with motor at max power settings of original firmware.

The blue gear did damage to me only on that situation and after some times when my chain blocked or recently with to much battery current like 25 amps.
Wanted to replace the blue gear, as everyone said it will be damaged. Took the motor apart, this is was the blue gear looks like (and YES, the backside looks the same). Tell me which one is the new one, and which is the old. 8)
Everything in the motor looks fine. All gears look intact, bearings are ok - Chinese style, and I can't find any obvious problem.
As I mentioned: When I pedal there is no noise, so it clearly comes from the motor. And it's not a really complicated setup. Motor, 2 gears, another two gears, and that's it.
Any ideas?


IMG_3378.JPG


IMG_3379.JPG
Generally, if something makes a noise, something is rubbing against something else.
When something is rubbing it leaves traces, like scratches or something.
If the problem isn't coming from the blue gear, not the clutch bearing, than you should be able to find visual evidence somewhere else.
A strong light and magnifying glass will come in handy.

RicMcK   10 W

10 W
Posts: 72
Joined: Jun 19 2019 9:12am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by RicMcK » Mar 21 2020 9:27am

Brand new TDSZ2?
I just got a new TDSZ2 to put on my wife's bike. I currently have a modified one on my touring bike (flashed, thermal pads, temp sensor, dual chainring, KT-LCD3... ).

I bought it from PSW Power. Should I install the new one and ride it for a while in the stock configuration, in case there are any problems with the motor?
Rick Seattle WA

skestans   100 W

100 W
Posts: 123
Joined: Jul 12 2019 12:42am
Location: Luxembourg

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by skestans » Mar 21 2020 9:58am

RicMcK wrote:Brand new TDSZ2?
I just got a new TDSZ2 to put on my wife's bike. I currently have a modified one on my touring bike (flashed, thermal pads, temp sensor, dual chainring, KT-LCD3... ).

I bought it from PSW Power. Should I install the new one and ride it for a while in the stock configuration, in case there are any problems with the motor?
I think it’s the only way to try and find out if it has an issue while still being able to claim the warranty. Although you can still reflash it with stock firmware (motor only) if anything goes wrong but that’s morally murky so I’ll let you decide.

bricepapayou   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 4
Joined: Mar 21 2020 11:02am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bricepapayou » Mar 21 2020 11:15am

maximusdm wrote:
Oct 20 2018 11:45am
aja wrote:
Oct 14 2018 1:41pm
Can someone please help me; I've tried connecting the ST Link to the Speed sensor on the TSDZ2 to flash the firmware to the motor but whatever I do, I get the same Swim comms error; started with cables inc connectors at 9cm and cut them down to 5cm...still doesn't work; spent the whole weekend creating cables then soldering and re-soldering t different lengths; nothings worked. I do have a speed sensor cable but don't want to cut it up if I get the same result as I've followed JB's and Casainho and indeed Eco ebikes instructions but to no avail. :(
I've flashed the 0.14 hex file to the LCD3 without a problem.
I managed to finally read the motor firmware.... It was a nightmare!
I do not know for sure but I think the wires on the motor are longer than others or they have some bigger electrical resistance.
Botom line is that I only managed to read the firmware with 10 cm cables(in total!!!) directly soldered into the controler.

Steps:
- Connected wires to swim, reset and ground and connected the pins directly in STlink.
- I have the LCD connected and battery connected
- I power the LCD ON and now I attempt to read the firmware (Thank you casainho!)

=> it works fine
Hello guys!
I have the same problem as Aja and Maximusdm.

I have the ST link V2.
When I try to connect to my XH18 unit (through the 6 pin cable, not directly on the unit, recpecting the connection sketch), I have the same message: "please check the swim cables etc..." on the STVP program (STM8S105x4 or X6). My XH18 doesn't switch on when I connect it to the computer.
It is the same when I try to connect directly to the motor (where the 6 pin cable is quite small).

What I have tried so far without success:
- installed the st link v2 driver to my windows 10 computer
- change the wires of the ST lik V2 and connect with small brace tubes the wires to the usb key and 6 pins cable. Those 4 cables are 5cm long

I have a TSDZ2 250W 36V, and a 48V battery (this is also why I need to change the software, because the assistance doesn't work with a 48V battery.
My XH18 worked properly when I connect it to the motor.

Thanks for your help, as I can't find the answer on the forum.

ilu   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 34
Joined: Oct 18 2019 10:51am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Mar 22 2020 12:59pm

bricepapayou wrote:
Mar 21 2020 11:15am
Hello guys!
I have the same problem as Aja and Maximusdm.

I have the ST link V2.
When I try to connect to my XH18 unit (through the 6 pin cable, not directly on the unit, recpecting the connection sketch), I have the same message: "please check the swim cables etc..." on the STVP program (STM8S105x4 or X6). My XH18 doesn't switch on when I connect it to the computer.
It is the same when I try to connect directly to the motor (where the 6 pin cable is quite small).

What I have tried so far without success:
- installed the st link v2 driver to my windows 10 computer
- change the wires of the ST lik V2 and connect with small brace tubes the wires to the usb key and 6 pins cable. Those 4 cables are 5cm long

I have a TSDZ2 250W 36V, and a 48V battery (this is also why I need to change the software, because the assistance doesn't work with a 48V battery.
My XH18 worked properly when I connect it to the motor.

Thanks for your help, as I can't find the answer on the forum.
Which wire are you trying to connect your St-Link? You should have your display connected to the motor and both powered with the battery, then you connect St-Link to speed sensor cable. And software-wise follow these instructions https://github.com/stancecoke/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike/wiki

bergerandfries   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 39
Joined: Mar 02 2019 9:47pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bergerandfries » Mar 22 2020 3:50pm

I've got a 850C and 52v stock firmware setup that I want to move to the Open Source firmware for both. However, should I go with 850C Version 0.6.2 (which pairs with Motor Version 0.51.0) or wait for an impending release? I guess what I'm asking is what is coming soon from the developers versus 0.6.2/0.51.0? Thanks!

skestans   100 W

100 W
Posts: 123
Joined: Jul 12 2019 12:42am
Location: Luxembourg

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by skestans » Mar 22 2020 4:44pm

bergerandfries wrote:I've got a 850C and 52v stock firmware setup that I want to move to the Open Source firmware for both. However, should I go with 850C Version 0.6.2 (which pairs with Motor Version 0.51.0) or wait for an impending release? I guess what I'm asking is what is coming soon from the developers versus 0.6.2/0.51.0? Thanks!
There was a newer version but it’s just been pulled out because it has too many critical bugs. I’m personally sticking to 0.6.5 which works fine 95% of the time. I wouldn’t recommend a more recent one for now based on the issues people are having until there is a new release that corrects them.

casainho   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4094
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 22 2020 6:56pm

How to improve pedal distance to frame Q factor

I improved the Q factor and I wrote a How To:

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... e-Q-factor


Image
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

ilu   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 34
Joined: Oct 18 2019 10:51am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Mar 23 2020 7:23am

casainho wrote:
Mar 22 2020 6:56pm
How to improve pedal distance to frame Q factor
Also from several Aliexpress sellers you can buy only the right side Bafang crank for about 10$ shipped.

It makes quite a big difference, before I had constant slight feeling of sitting off centre even though being straight on the saddle.

Post Reply