New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
casainho   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4094
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 23 2020 7:39am

ilu wrote:
Mar 23 2020 7:23am
casainho wrote:
Mar 22 2020 6:56pm
How to improve pedal distance to frame Q factor
Also from several Aliexpress sellers you can buy only the right side Bafang crank for about 10$ shipped.

It makes quite a big difference, before I had constant slight feeling of sitting off centre even though being straight on the saddle.
Thanks for the feedback. I added some of your words that are better than mine. I also added a topic for Improvements to the wiki, adding this Q factor improvement and others:

Image

Image
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

knutselmaaster   100 W

100 W
Posts: 294
Joined: Apr 05 2014 6:50am
Location: near Paris, France

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Mar 23 2020 8:05am

Indeed, I used the bafang crank on each and every motor I installed up till now.
Never had a client's bike where this wasn't needed.
I wonder why the manufacturer never corrected this.
Does anyone here have a well centered setup with the default crank arms?

ilu   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 34
Joined: Oct 18 2019 10:51am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Mar 23 2020 8:19am

I have the 6v light cable coming from the dual connector speed sensor, and I'm only using one if the two wires for a basic front light. I'm not putting a rear light on this build, so was thinking about using the other end to make a USB output for charging a phone or something. I'll use a switch so only the light or USB is working at a time, but does anyone know if I can just connect a USB terminal to those 6v wires (I know USB power generally is 5v) or do I need a voltage regulator of some sort to safely charge electronics?

I know the amperage is also quite small so this would only be a backup solution, usually I won't need it.
Last edited by ilu on Mar 23 2020 8:29am, edited 1 time in total.

ilu   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 34
Joined: Oct 18 2019 10:51am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Mar 23 2020 8:24am

knutselmaaster wrote:
Mar 23 2020 8:05am
Indeed, I used the bafang crank on each and every motor I installed up till now.
Never had a client's bike where this wasn't needed.
I wonder why the manufacturer never corrected this.
Does anyone here have a well centered setup with the default crank arms?
I think it's not possible as with identical crankarms the maing gear housing of the motor inevitably pushes the centerline to the right. Obvious problem and a simple solution so it is truly suprising the manufacturer hasn't corrected it.

JaiCee   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: May 06 2019 4:57am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by JaiCee » Mar 23 2020 8:31am

ilu wrote:
Mar 23 2020 8:19am
I have the 6v light cable coming from the dual connector speed sensor, and I'm only using one if the two wires for a basic front light. I'm not putting a rear light on this build, so was thinking about using the other end to make a USB output for charging a phone or something. I'll use a switch so only the light or USB is working at a time, but does anyone know if I can just connect a USB terminal to those 6v wires (I know USB power generally is 5v) or do I need a voltage regulator of some sort to safely charge electronics?
I have spliced into the rear lights for this purpose however it was to power a couple of super cheap fairy lights for my cargo bike. It works but I definitely wouldn't charge my phone from this connection. Step down converters for the battery voltage are cheap plus will be more suited as you don't need to have the bike lights on to be able to charge your phone.

r0mko   1 W

1 W
Posts: 55
Joined: Jan 20 2017 8:06pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by r0mko » Mar 23 2020 9:23am

casainho wrote:
Mar 23 2020 7:39am
Image
Image
Hi casainho!
Screenshot 2020-03-23 at 15.22.03.png
Screenshot 2020-03-23 at 15.22.03.png (152.21 KiB) Viewed 715 times
Does that mean that I can replace a fried 48V controller with a spare 36V one?

maximusdm   10 W

10 W
Posts: 90
Joined: Sep 08 2018 12:51pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by maximusdm » Mar 23 2020 9:37am

bricepapayou wrote:
Mar 21 2020 11:15am
Hello guys!
I have the same problem as Aja and Maximusdm.

I have the ST link V2.
When I try to connect to my XH18 unit (through the 6 pin cable, not directly on the unit, recpecting the connection sketch), I have the same message: "please check the swim cables etc..." on the STVP program (STM8S105x4 or X6). My XH18 doesn't switch on when I connect it to the computer.
It is the same when I try to connect directly to the motor (where the 6 pin cable is quite small).

What I have tried so far without success:
- installed the st link v2 driver to my windows 10 computer
- change the wires of the ST lik V2 and connect with small brace tubes the wires to the usb key and 6 pins cable. Those 4 cables are 5cm long

I have a TSDZ2 250W 36V, and a 48V battery (this is also why I need to change the software, because the assistance doesn't work with a 48V battery.
My XH18 worked properly when I connect it to the motor.

Thanks for your help, as I can't find the answer on the forum.
Hi,

My problem was a bit different. I am using LCD3. For this the STlink worked fine, but when connected to the motor it always gave error. I used an other STlink and it worked even with 0.5m USB extension cable.
SO some STlinks are better than others and instead of shortening the cable try buying a new one from an other seller.

Elinx   100 W

100 W
Posts: 187
Joined: Aug 09 2019 6:58am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Mar 23 2020 10:39am

r0mko wrote:
Mar 23 2020 9:23am
.....
Does that mean that I can replace a fried 48V controller with a spare 36V one?
Yes. Besides the motor, the hardware is for all versions the same.
The power is controlled by the firmware, so you have to flash the right stock firmware or OSF.
Last edited by Elinx on Mar 23 2020 11:21am, edited 1 time in total.

r0mko   1 W

1 W
Posts: 55
Joined: Jan 20 2017 8:06pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by r0mko » Mar 23 2020 11:08am

Elinx wrote:
Mar 23 2020 10:39am
The power is controlled by the firmware, so you have to flash the right stock firmware or OSF.
Thanks! Seems to work fine on 54V fresh battery on my desk with v0.54 FW and 0.6.5 850C. Now gonna assemble everything.

mctubster   100 W

100 W
Posts: 230
Joined: Feb 26 2018 6:21am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 25 2020 12:48am

izeman wrote:
Mar 13 2020 12:20pm
bergerandfries wrote:
Mar 13 2020 10:30am
I am running stock 52v firmware on the motor and euronau firmware on the 850c, and it also does the same. I usually turn off things by flipping off the switch on my battery, but I will start using the actual power off button on the 850c first and see if that resolves the issue
Now that you mention it: That's the way I normally do it as well. Never powered the system down with the remote button. I always disconnect the battery by turning off the BMS.
I have used a newer 850C on a Bafang mid-drive. Even with the original Bafang firmware, turning off using the buttons, the clock has severe drift and once the main battery is disconnected will only last 12-48? hours before completely losing time.

I didn't pay much attention, but it was annoying for sure.

skestans   100 W

100 W
Posts: 122
Joined: Jul 12 2019 12:42am
Location: Luxembourg

Re: New

Post by skestans » Mar 25 2020 2:27am

casainho wrote:
Mar 19 2020 2:57am
ancan wrote:
Mar 19 2020 2:54am
My clock is also completely off every morning, and I turn off using the power button.
So, fails less than 24h? Does it fails like after 1 or 2h? - please test and report.
The issue on GH has been updated (https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... /issues/80), the amount of time the display can keep accurate time looks like it's a function of how long it's been powered on before being switched off.

bricepapayou   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 4
Joined: Mar 21 2020 11:02am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bricepapayou » Mar 25 2020 5:24pm

maximusdm wrote:
Mar 23 2020 9:37am
bricepapayou wrote:
Mar 21 2020 11:15am
Hello guys!
I have the same problem as Aja and Maximusdm.

I have the ST link V2.
When I try to connect to my XH18 unit (through the 6 pin cable, not directly on the unit, recpecting the connection sketch), I have the same message: "please check the swim cables etc..." on the STVP program (STM8S105x4 or X6). My XH18 doesn't switch on when I connect it to the computer.
It is the same when I try to connect directly to the motor (where the 6 pin cable is quite small).

What I have tried so far without success:
- installed the st link v2 driver to my windows 10 computer
- change the wires of the ST lik V2 and connect with small brace tubes the wires to the usb key and 6 pins cable. Those 4 cables are 5cm long

I have a TSDZ2 250W 36V, and a 48V battery (this is also why I need to change the software, because the assistance doesn't work with a 48V battery.
My XH18 worked properly when I connect it to the motor.

Thanks for your help, as I can't find the answer on the forum.
Hi,

My problem was a bit different. I am using LCD3. For this the STlink worked fine, but when connected to the motor it always gave error. I used an other STlink and it worked even with 0.5m USB extension cable.
SO some STlinks are better than others and instead of shortening the cable try buying a new one from an other seller.
Ok I will try with another st link
Thanks

bricepapayou   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 4
Joined: Mar 21 2020 11:02am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bricepapayou » Mar 25 2020 5:28pm

ilu wrote:
Mar 22 2020 12:59pm
bricepapayou wrote:
Mar 21 2020 11:15am
Hello guys!
I have the same problem as Aja and Maximusdm.

I have the ST link V2.
When I try to connect to my XH18 unit (through the 6 pin cable, not directly on the unit, recpecting the connection sketch), I have the same message: "please check the swim cables etc..." on the STVP program (STM8S105x4 or X6). My XH18 doesn't switch on when I connect it to the computer.
It is the same when I try to connect directly to the motor (where the 6 pin cable is quite small).

What I have tried so far without success:
- installed the st link v2 driver to my windows 10 computer
- change the wires of the ST lik V2 and connect with small brace tubes the wires to the usb key and 6 pins cable. Those 4 cables are 5cm long

I have a TSDZ2 250W 36V, and a 48V battery (this is also why I need to change the software, because the assistance doesn't work with a 48V battery.
My XH18 worked properly when I connect it to the motor.

Thanks for your help, as I can't find the answer on the forum.
Which wire are you trying to connect your St-Link? You should have your display connected to the motor and both powered with the battery, then you connect St-Link to speed sensor cable. And software-wise follow these instructions https://github.com/stancecoke/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike/wiki
Thanks for your answer.
I connected the st link to the speed cable.
I tried with display/ battery on or off. It doesn't work...

ilu   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 34
Joined: Oct 18 2019 10:51am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Mar 26 2020 6:08am

bricepapayou wrote:
Mar 25 2020 5:28pm
Thanks for your answer.
I connected the st link to the speed cable.
I tried with display/ battery on or off. It doesn't work...
Surely the problem might be with the ST-Link-module. But you could also try to first check the option byte settings according to these instructions https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... uctionals/

Few times I've been unable to update the firmware with same hardware that usually works, but after manually changing the option byte settings to those in the image below and programming only that tab, the regular firmware installation method has worked again. I dont' really understand what causes the problem though.
Attachments
optionbytetab_1024x1024.png
optionbytetab_1024x1024.png (130.24 KiB) Viewed 452 times

HugoM   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Mar 26 2020 8:20am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by HugoM » Mar 26 2020 11:27am

Hey guys!

I have been lurking on this thread for quite some time and thanks to you have managed to build a nice stealthy e-bike (Picture of the bike)

However after installing the motor and flashing open firmware my max speed is limited to 28 km/h and after that motor doesn't assist even though I have set it to max 99 km/h in the settings on the SW102. (Picture of the settings) (Picture of strava analysis) I read that that max speed for TSDZ2 is 45 km/h. Any Ideas what's wrong?

Secondly, sometimes SW102 doesnt display the battery level correctly. On the latest ride display showed 0% however battery level was actualy 82%

My batter is DIY mini 52v 14s2p,made with Samsung 25R 18650 2500mAh and

v0.7.0 on SW102
v0.56.0 on TSDZ2

casainho   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4094
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 26 2020 11:37am

HugoM wrote:
Mar 26 2020 11:27am
Hey guys!

I have been lurking on this thread for quite some time and thanks to you have managed to build a nice stealthy e-bike (Picture of the bike)

However after installing the motor and flashing open firmware my max speed is limited to 28 km/h and after that motor doesn't assist even though I have set it to max 99 km/h in the settings on the SW102. (Picture of the settings) (Picture of strava analysis) I read that that max speed for TSDZ2 is 45 km/h. Any Ideas what's wrong?

Secondly, sometimes SW102 doesnt display the battery level correctly. On the latest ride display showed 0% however battery level was actualy 82%

My batter is DIY mini 52v 14s2p,made with Samsung 25R 18650 2500mAh
About the max speed, you need to learn/understand the technical variables and see what is the limiting factor. Maybe is just you that don't understand the system limitations.

About the battery SOC, again, you need to debug looking at the different battery values like the measured consumed Wh and battery voltage.

I use 52v 14s2p 3500mAh but I can´t pull higher currents but your cells have lower Wh capacity but should handle high currents discharge. Really nice to have small battery packs!! If you use a 36V motor, you could have an ever small and light battery :-)
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

HugoM   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Mar 26 2020 8:20am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by HugoM » Mar 26 2020 11:53am

Thanks for the quick answer - I sure do need to learn alot more.
This was my first time holding a soldering iron... :D

casainho   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4094
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 26 2020 12:26pm

Being able to graph the variables is so nice... I did this for the first time, I had my battery at 68% and decided to connect the charger but kept the 860C display on. Here is the graph of the battery voltage over the charging period -- as we can see, near the end of the charging, it charges slow because the voltage on the cells get's near the voltage of the charger so less and less current flow to the cells and so they absorb less power per time:

Image
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

jeff.page.rides   10 W

10 W
Posts: 95
Joined: Aug 13 2019 10:16am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeff.page.rides » Mar 26 2020 4:11pm

That's cool!
I can't wait to put the 860C on my handcycle!
As soon as we see reports that it stable and doesn't have any overrun I'll be installing it right away!
Thanks for supporting and using the 860C!

casainho   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4094
Joined: Feb 14 2011 2:43pm

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 26 2020 4:16pm

jeff.page.rides wrote:
Mar 26 2020 4:11pm
That's cool!
I can't wait to put the 860C on my handcycle!
As soon as we see reports that it stable and doesn't have any overrun I'll be installing it right away!
Thanks for supporting and using the 860C!
You were right, the 860C display is way better than 850C. I got the firmware running thanks to the help of Electrify Bike or Eco Cycles shops.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

emr   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 47
Joined: Apr 22 2018 5:37am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by emr » Mar 26 2020 11:52pm

Apologies if this has been posted previously...

I have an Alfine 11 speed IGH (Internally Geared Hub), and found that gear changes would fail due to the force applied by the TSDZ2 to the drive train (even when I reduced pressure on the pedals while pedalling). I would need to stop pedalling for a couple of seconds to let the motor stop before the hub would change gear. Part of the time taken for the motor to stop was due to motor overun. This of course resulted in loss of momentum and riding rhythm, particularly when ascending a hill and needing to change to a lower gear.

I have now added a 'Gear sensor' that is fitted to the gear cable near the changer on the handlebar and connects to the VLCD5 brake sensor sockets. This works a treat and stops the motor for app 1 second when changing gears up or down.

I bought the version that includes magnetic brake sensors (I have hydraulic brakes). It is now possible to approach an intersection or other potential sticky situation, and apply the brakes to stop the motor while keeping pressure on the pedals to maintain stability where a near 'track stand' is required.

I have also installed the MBrusa version of the open source software v 20beta1 that includes a fix for the motor overun discussed on viewtopic.php?f=30&t=98281&start=875
GearSensor_1.jpg
GearSensor_1.jpg (52.81 KiB) Viewed 338 times
GearSensor_2.JPG
GearSensor_2.JPG (176.53 KiB) Viewed 338 times
In case you have the same issue here are the details of the item I purchased...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33060254663.html
1gearSensorl.jpg
1gearSensorl.jpg (88.06 KiB) Viewed 338 times
Cheers Emma

ilu   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 34
Joined: Oct 18 2019 10:51am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Mar 27 2020 6:34am

On Aliexpress there's a sale and 860C display from Greenergy Electric Bike store is only 72€ shipped from UK, seems like a good deal for europeans. I only see this option in the app though, not the web version.

bricepapayou   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 4
Joined: Mar 21 2020 11:02am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bricepapayou » Mar 27 2020 7:28am

ilu wrote:
Mar 26 2020 6:08am
bricepapayou wrote:
Mar 25 2020 5:28pm
Thanks for your answer.
I connected the st link to the speed cable.
I tried with display/ battery on or off. It doesn't work...
Surely the problem might be with the ST-Link-module. But you could also try to first check the option byte settings according to these instructions https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... uctionals/

Few times I've been unable to update the firmware with same hardware that usually works, but after manually changing the option byte settings to those in the image below and programming only that tab, the regular firmware installation method has worked again. I dont' really understand what causes the problem though.
thanks for your feedback.
Can you tell me which parametres are different on your picture? I have read every line, but can't see any difference with my program. Same on the website link.

Thanks

ilu   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 34
Joined: Oct 18 2019 10:51am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Mar 27 2020 11:56am

bricepapayou wrote:
Mar 27 2020 7:28am
ilu wrote:
Mar 26 2020 6:08am
bricepapayou wrote:
Mar 25 2020 5:28pm
Thanks for your answer.
I connected the st link to the speed cable.
I tried with display/ battery on or off. It doesn't work...
Surely the problem might be with the ST-Link-module. But you could also try to first check the option byte settings according to these instructions https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cyc ... uctionals/

Few times I've been unable to update the firmware with same hardware that usually works, but after manually changing the option byte settings to those in the image below and programming only that tab, the regular firmware installation method has worked again. I dont' really understand what causes the problem though.
thanks for your feedback.
Can you tell me which parametres are different on your picture? I have read every line, but can't see any difference with my program. Same on the website link.

Thanks

Some of the "Port Alternate Functions" needed to be changed, but if those are okay then I guess your problem is different. Have you tried to also install the original 48V firmware? But it might also be that you need another ST-Link-module :/

Hasse67   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Mar 17 2020 11:42am

Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Hasse67 » Mar 28 2020 7:03am

I know it's been warned about this before, by casainho and maybe others, but I'm putting out a new heads-up for this.
I was careless enough to just mount the rear torque arm and forgot the 2 outer screws closest to crank arm, and after only 3 trips with my new motor, chinesium housing was cracked :( so it is very important all fixing points are used :warn:
Does anyone know if I can buy a replacement anywhere in Europe?
Tsdz2 Cracked.JPG
Tsdz2 Cracked.JPG (218.33 KiB) Viewed 191 times

Post Reply